2020 Democratic Party primary thread

[Virtual ghost]

Btw. Harris voters were only a few percent at this point. Therefore that will disperse into a few centrist candidates and make minimal difference in numbers.

 

[Nicodemus]

Btw. Harris voters were only a few percent at this point. Therefore that will disperse into a few centrist candidates and make minimal difference in numbers.

Guess what: Virtually all the other voters whose candidates will not get the nomination will likewise chose another one: Biden, Warren, or Buttigieg. Or Bernie, but I just don't see that happening.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Yep. It's going to be whittled down really fast by the time the first few primaries/caucuses have been held. Don't expect a long, drawn out feud between more than 2 or 3 candidates. Most of them will have dropped out by February/March, as the reality of trying to fight an uphill battle with dwindling campaign funds sets in--those who have re-elections coming up in '20 will feel pressure to drop their presidential bids and focus on those campaigns. I'm not ruling out the possibility of a darkhorse surprising everyone and coming up from behind the current most popular candidates and becoming frontrunner, but more than likely the 2 main frontrunners will be apparent fairly early on in 2020. Might get a third or fourth hanger-on like we had with Howard Dean in 2004, who knows. Will be interesting to see how the endorsements from failed primary candidates go, although I think the power of endorsements tends to be highly overestimated.

 

[Nicodemus]

I think the power of endorsements tends to be highly overestimated.

On average, I agree. But considering the animosity many Bernie voters displayed toward Hillary in 2016, I think endorsements can be a powerful instrument. It could have gone much worse for Hillary had Bernie decided not to endorse her or, worse yet, actively opposed her.

The most important endorsement in the upcoming election will be Obama's, and I pray to the withering gods of democracy that he holds out until Biden has dropped out.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

The most important endorsement in the upcoming election will be Obama's, and I pray to the withering gods of democracy that he holds out until Biden has dropped out.

Biden's not going to drop out. He's on top of the polls and many dem voters view him as the "electable" option to take down Trump.

 

[Nicodemus]

Biden's not going to drop out. He's on top of the polls and many dem voters view him as the "electable" option to take down Trump.

At the moment. It is Biden's election to lose, to be sure. But I have confidence in his inaptitude. There is a reason he has never garnered substantial support during a presidential election before his terms as VP.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

At the moment. It is Biden's election to lose, to be sure. But I have confidence in his inaptitude. There is a reason he has never garnered substantial support during a presidential election before his terms as VP.

I guess we will have to see. Frankly I think Democratic primary voters are primarily concerned with defeating Trump, and they've been told by "experts" that Biden is the best choice to do it.

 

[Jaguar]

I guess we will have to see. Frankly I think Democratic primary voters are primarily concerned with defeating Trump, and they've been told by "experts" that Biden is the best choice to do it.

So Democratic voters are morons who can't think for themselves, is that it?

 

[Nicodemus]

I guess we will have to see. Frankly I think Democratic primary voters are primarily concerned with defeating Trump, and they've been told by "experts" that Biden is the best choice to do it.

I will never say this again, but: You have not been watching enough television. Biden is by no means the only viable candidate, and all kinds of media outlets know it.

I am pretty certain by now that Mayor Pete has a real shot:

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

If Pete isn't nominee, I bet he's top pick for VP regardless of whoever is nominee.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

So Democratic voters are morons who can't think for themselves, is that it?

It was meant more as an indictment of the quality of the media landscape.

 

[Jaguar]

“We need to honor teachers like soldiers, and pay them like doctors,” states the plan from Buttigieg.

That would involve fraud, my man. It's called upcoding.

 

[Jaguar]

You don't just do whatever crimes you want with governmental power, without any repercussions or consequences.

If people do crimes & fraud in government, then we should have a system set up where one can report said crimes. But we don't have that, and if you 'go through the designated channels', you will have your life ruined. Ask Thomas Drake, former top-ranking NSA executive & decorated Navy veteran. He went through all the 'proper channels' like a righteous boy, in order to report unconstitutional lawbreaking... ended up losing his career, his house, and he now works at an Apple Store. Earned hundreds of thousands a year, worked in the very top echelons of government with access to the most classifed documents... now works in an Apple Store.

So if there are no 'proper channels' with which to report crimes... we can either choose to allow the crimes to continue. Or we can leak the crimes so the people have a right to know what the government is doing with their tax dollars.

That is why every whistleblower stands with every other whistleblower. Chances are you think Daniel Ellsburg (leaker of the Pentagon Papers) is a 'good and upstanding man', because many decades have passed since the Nixon administration, and with a lot of passage of time comes removal from the hysteria of the present day (of the time), which gives people 20/20 for hindsight. So today, 40 years after the fact, Ellsburg is a 'national hero', and I'm sure you wouldn't dispute that.

But you don't know that Ellsburg said to Assange last year "Everything they are doing to you, they did to me. Everything they are saying about you, they said about me". So someone who you hold in high regard sees himself as every bit of a Julian Assange, who you hate because you've been indoctrinated by crimedoers to hate the person reporting crimes.

Your attention-seeking rantings are getting boring. Perhaps cookies and milk are in order. Chill out.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

It's really good to see statements like this. It's good to know mass gaslighting propaganda doesn't get everyone to go against their own self interests. Sometimes I don't know what's winning out between informed and uninformed... but that's shortlived after recognizing that the elections wouldn't be going in the way they have been, if the uninformed weren't on the losing side.

It's just that being in the thick of it every day for 3 years now... it's like actual war. You advance in tiny increments, and it drags on, and it's gunshots and bombs all around you for months, and you start not knowing if you're even making an impact... but all of a sudden you see all the incremental advances have built up into a groundswell or avalanche-like effect that grows exponentially, and swings the direction of the war markedly. And that's what I've been privileged to see with Bernie Sanders and the Justice Democrats (who were cofounded by Bernie's 2016 campaign staff), as well as all the congressional advancements in the day to day incidents in congress, which is minutiae that no one here knows or would care to hear, but rest assured they are hard fought victories that set the groundwork for the big things you see on corporate news.

When Bernie was asked this, everything he said indicated that, yes, of course he would pardon them. He can't say it in those direct terms because you know why, but he put it all over the place between lines. Saying "Well we'd have to look at what the person did, why they did it, did it serve a public good, we'd ahve to take all that into account when addressing the law they broke, we'll look it over if that situation should arise" etc... he means "Yes, I just can't say that right now" lol.



That is categorically, ojectively, factually incorrect.

Did you see the 2016 election? Two anti-establishment candidates rose up on the left and right, two people that no one would have ever thought in a million years would do so on one side, let alone both sides at the same time. And then the 2018 midterm election... I'll give you a pass because corporate media didn't cover us, but a long list of Justice Democrats and Brand New Congress candidates set all time (in history of country for their district) fundraising records during the primary, without corporate money. Including one guy who ran in the most pro-Trump district in the country (in West Virginia) which voted for Trump by 47 points... and he closed that gap (took the lead at one point, but then lost in the end due to a massive influ of corporate money) 47 points. Most pro-Trump place in the country. I'll introduce you to him...

He went on CNBC and said "The dirt poor will eat the filthy rich" on their air, to their faces!!

Then 2019's election a few months ago, in Seattle, Amazon poured millions & millions of dollars into - not a federal congressional race - not a state congressional race - into a city council race!!! I repeat, city council (the proverbial 'bazooka to kill a fly') to remove one person, democratic socialist Sawant, who stood up against their plutocratic decimation of the city. And. she. beat. them.

Bernie Sanders is beating Trump IN TEXAS. Bernie, Yang and Tulsi are the only 2 democratic candidates that 10% or more of republicans would vote for.

The country is at the tail end of 30 years of plutocracy, and they are angry/pissed off at the establishment. As you saw in 2016. And 2018. And 2019. And since nothing's changed, and the conditions in the country are not only the same but worse... the anti-establishment sentiment is not going to suddenly 'disappear'. The problems are still there, it will continue.

I could give you a ton of video of what things look like on the ground in the electorate (and god knows that might be necessary anyway since you can turn on corporate news at any time of the day and they will never be broadcasting the electorate, talking to voters, etc) But I'll just keep it brief for this post - this republican guy and this guy represent the sentiment in this country right now. What you see there, that's how it is in this country right now.

If all the people you mentioned weren't in the race... then the leaders would be Tulsi and Yang. Nobody is going to vote for a corporate democrat. Ever. We're done with this shit. Warren had a large amount of support, then when her true colors started showing she fell 12 points in the polls.

The country still has the same problems as 3 years ago, is still in an angry anti-establishment state... Tulsi and Yang are the only ones (in your scenario) aiming to overthrow the establishment (which means removing oligarchs' control over government), therefore Tulsi and Yang would be leading.

Do you have the source for the claim about 10% of republicans saying they'd vote for those candidates? Not trying to be a pill, just interested. If true, I think it speaks to any of the concerns about those candidates being less "electable". I've heard comments from republican co-workers that Tulsi is the only democrat they'd consider voting for. If it's really true she's this popular with independents and GOP voters, then democrats need to be rethinking their thoughts on her "electability" since that word keeps coming up in this thread and elsewhere. I remember Obama faced similar scrutiny regarding his "electability way back in 2008. Yet he was able to defeat McCain and even got some support from a few Republican voters who'd become disillusioned after 8 years of Bush. I remember hearing similar comments from Republican family members back then that they might vote Obama, but would never vote for Clinton. Obviously he's not as popular with Republicans now, but there was a time they didn't all universally hate him the way they do most democrats.

A point of advice, a lot of people just aren't going to read entire walls of text. Use spoilers more, and break up your posts a bit. The claim about 10% of republican voters, if true, is a really great point to share, but when it's in the middle of a lengthy wall of text, people will be less likely to pay it mind or even notice it. Would be great to post independently as its own post though. People will also try to report you for spamming with a lot of frequent longer posts, which then might get you unwanted attention from the mods. Just trying to help you out here. You seem very passionate about this, and that's not a bad thing, but maybe wait a little bit between each post and aim for shorter posts when possible. The more you include in your posts, the less impactful each individual point becomes

 

[Jaguar]

New Poll Shows Pete Buttigieg and Joe Biden Tied With Donald Trump in Traditionally Republican Arizona

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Looks like Arizona might be the next Virginia.

Wonder how many red states need to go purple before the republicans begin to question their strategies and the candidates they've been selecting.

 

[ceecee]

Looks like Arizona might be the next Virginia.

Wonder how many red states need to go purple before the republicans begin to question their strategies and the candidates they've been selecting.

I'd rather not interrupt them while they're still choosing questionable candidates and strategies.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

But you don't know that Ellsburg said to Assange last year "Everything they are doing to you, they did to me. Everything they are saying about you, they said about me". So someone who you hold in high regard sees himself as every bit of a Julian Assange, who you hate because you've been indoctrinated by crimedoers to hate the person reporting crimes.

I'm not so sure about Assange but I think Edward Snowden was certainly in the mold of Ellsburg. I don't particularly trust the government's track record when it comes to acting in our best interests in that area with that level of secrecy involved, given things like COINTELPRO.

 

[Jaguar]

lol, I love this. Every time I put forward a simple point, it never gets rebutted... it just gets this high school mean girls troll-y reply.

So I take it that is your way of admitting that, yes, in the absence of proper channels through which whistleblowers can report crimes, then they must go directly to the people with the information. Thanks, and I'm glad that you rescind your "No pardons from me" statement in light of this as well.

Nothing in that post is true or makes any sense. By jumping to erroneous conclusions, you're merely trolling yourself. That's on you. Furthermore, I just noticed this exchange:

Ah, okay. I don't see her winning anything even if Biden, Warren and Sanders weren't in the race.

That is categorically, ojectively, factually incorrect.

You can't claim something is factually incorrect when he wasn't stating a fact to begin with. It was his opinion. Opinions aren't facts but we sure have a lot of people in the forum who confuse the two. And just because your opinion differed from his doesn't make your opinion factual. The election is down the road - you can speak of who wins as a fact, afterwards.

 

[Tellenbach]

Bloomberg campaign chief: Trump is winning 2020 election right now

Sheekey said the general election is only about six states: Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Florida and Arizona.

“That’s the whole general election. And right now Donald Trump is winning, he is winning that election. It’s very tough for people who don't live in New York or California to understand that, but that is what’s happening,” Sheekey said.

This guy's right. The swing states are the important, the all-important, states to concentrate on. I'm not sure why Ohio isn't in there, though. It doesn't matter that _________ polls well in California or Massachusetts if he/she can't win Michigan. Right now, Biden's polling best in these swing states.

I just re-read the quote. I think he meant to say: "It's very tough for people who live in New York or California to understand that"; I'm in California and I'm pretty sure a majority of Californians don't know that Pennsylvania and Wisconsin are states.