by unhealthy do you mean that you feel depressed by the rigidity of your values?
would you say that by nature type 8 is more rigid? more te? more structured and absolute? perhaps you just structure your values in such a way that makes you come off differently than other enfps that take a more free flowing stance... ??
Rigid? I never saw myself as rigid at all. I don't go out there forcing people to do things the way I think they should or anything.
It just seems ENFPs were geared to be 7s. And there are so few ENFPs 8 that maybe it's just not natural and creates mental dissonance.
I don't think Te makes my values more absolute. Values are in themselves absolutes (this is wrong, this is right). I do convey them in a Te manner though possibly. I communicate Fi values in Te manner.
Instead of saying "please don't hurt the dog" I'll say "hey dick head, you wanna get your ass kicked?!". A person would then focus on the use of expressions like "dick head" and showing aggressiveness and label me as a dick. That's the story of my life.
And you ask : why then, don't you change the way how you deliver the message? The answer is simple...life has taught me (and that is what enneagram is all about I guess) that people will ignore things if you are too nice. You need to show them there are consequences to being bad. Hint at it anyway. I can pride myself on having always been a good person according to my standards and of most people around me.
Whose? other people's
The thing is, I just consider it learning to see the world from all angles. Things that I hadn't even considered. Just becoz I strongly feel about something, doesn't mean I should be deaf to new info or new insights. And yes, I do assimilate those in there, though often I'll adjust them according to how *I* feel about those new insights, to then add to my repertoire
....
Well then you do nothing different compared to what I do. I don't know how I come across on this forum...but I'm not a butthurt FP that doesn't listen to what other people have to say. People compliment me on my listening and understanding actually.
I'm just saying, I guess, that deep down...it takes a lot to change the logic of how I see things. It takes a very intelligent and wise person...and even then, there are things that just don't make sense to me.
That's only because I spent my whole life philosophizing with myself and others to arrive to these conclusions and values. I read books, I chat with people....so I always have a logical line of reasoning to justify my values. Or I try to. I'm always looking to be proven "wrong" though. I want to be happy...if my values don't make me
and other people happy...then there is no point to them.
If there is one thing that is more accurate than arrogant or judgmental for me...it's lacking faith that others put as much thought as I do into their opinions. I don't just believe in it though...it seems I'm constantly proved right which in turn makes feel more lonely and bitter and adamant about being aggressive with people and urging them to think and to stop hurting each other etc. Murder and rape are covered by law...so I try to go deeper...you could call me morally pedantic I guess.
Trust me, I'd love to know how to not be though. It doesn't bring me any joy...and in my self-importance I guess it makes me think of that phrase "ignorance is bliss". It's a burden trying and being morally perfect. But what is the choice? How can I want an ideal world if I don't try being ideal myself?
lol, I just noticed I went on a ramble there. I'll stop now.
Sure, why not?
Also, if you feel that camaraderie type of feeling most with NTs, there's nothing wrong with that. You would not be the first person in any of the temperaments to feel more drawn to and comfortable around a different temperament than your own.
The comforting part with NTs is that they don't tend to hide behind subjectiveness as much. Which ironically seems a lot more about sharing and communicating and living harmoniously as a group then "don't judge me" or "everyone has their opinions". No shit everyone has their opinions! Then go be a hermit somewhere else if you don't care about the opinions of other people around you. If you don't care about bettering ourselves as a group. NTs don't shy away from debate, they believe in having their opinions put to the test.
As much as an individualist as I am and even though I have tremendous respect for individuality....I think the point of individuality is defeated if everyone is clouded by fear of being judged and doesn't like to communicate and share their insights with others. The individual often just wants to be understood, but he/she also has to want to make others understand.
Otherwise what's the fucking point?!
Rambling again, sorry