Kierva
#KUWK
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2010
- Messages
- 2,469
- Enneagram
- 6w7
- Instinctual Variant
- sp/sx
Can't have everything.
So this means you have boobs too?
Can't have everything.
So this means you have boobs too?
What type do you want to be?
I see 9 on this questionnaire, but I see you've eliminated it from your options. I could see a case for you disintegrating to it, so 3 would be the option you're after.
Is 3 an ideal way you see yourself?
If I could choose to be any type, I'd be a 7, so no. I'm not idealizing 3, and why do you think I might be disintegrating? I'm at a much higher point in my health than I have been for a long time - unless you think it's minor disintegration, which I perhaps could agree with. I don't know where on earth you see 9, though; I ruled it out because it's incredibly far-fetched.
Why do you find it far fetched?
Why none of these types?It's not that I don't understand myself, because I do; I only fear I have not learned the application of Enneagram theory well enough in regards to myself. Perhaps I am too young to fully have a type, though I've settled into the MBTI type of INTJ quite well. But I've gone through just about every type as a possibility - and here's what I can deduce.
- I'm not a 2, 7, 8, or 9.
- I relate strongly to each heart, head, and gut triads.
- I am most likely not a reactive type, though the possibility still remains.
- I relate to each type in some way or another.
For ease, I've filled a questionnaire out.
1. What do you think your life is about? What drives you in life? This can be something like a goal or a purpose, or anything else that comes to mind.
Isn't the subjectivity of life part of what makes it so fascinating? One universal purpose would make life much, much grayer. In all seriousness, though, I strive for personal happiness and success. Short-term goals include completing an above average education to ensure financial stability, a personal sense of achievement, and a career I enjoy doing. Even more short-term, having self control with what I eat, and loosening up, so to speak. I'm not naturally a social person, though I do deeply desire to interact with groups, individuals, and the world.
2. What were you like as a kid?
Dictatorial, tyrannical, hyperactive.
I imposed my pretensions on other children, but at heart, I was a bright, creative, and curious child. I could not control my temper for the first eight years or so, unfortunately. I was a go-getter.
I even invented 'personal assistants', where I would pay other children to do my bidding. Eventually, that got banned from the classroom - excuse me for being business-minded.
3. Describe your relationship with your parents. Does anything stand out about the way you interacted?
I was previously quite close to my mother, now I am close to my father. However, even as a child, I was uncomfortable with emotional intimacy, and I still am. It feels wrong to give too much of myself to others, and that makes me colder than perhaps I'd like to be.
4. What values are important to you? What do you hope to avoid doing or being?
All of my values are very, very important to me. I consider them to be fair and respectful of different ideologies and so on, but they are, for the most part, non-negotiable.
My most prominent value is probably equal rights. However, values that are unrelated to morality are much more flexible.
5. Aside from phobias, are there any fears that characterized your childhood? Have they continued into the present day, or not, and if not, how have you dealt with them?
Perhaps not characterized, but flavored. Social anxiety, a fear of being wrong, a fear of appearing incompetent, a fear of rejection, a fear of failure - those are the most prominent ones, the ones I still have today, the ones that bother me most deeply.
6. a.) How do you see yourself?
b.) How do you want others to see you?
c.) What do you dislike the most in other people?
a.) I see myself as a lot of things. I consider myself to be very self-aware (painfully so at times). I have good qualities and I have faults. Some of my good qualities are how I naturally see many sides of a situation, my intelligence, my love for intellectual endeavors, my wit, my creativity, and my ability to project whatever persona I should choose. Some of my faults include my rigidity, my inability to see myself as wrong on matters that are not concrete (based in fact), my emotional aloofness, and my condescending attitude.
b.) I want others to see me as ingenious, wise, accomplished, different, and deep. I also want them to see me as funny, helpful, and polite.
c.) I dislike a lack of logic behind emotions and actions. I dislike inconsistency. I dislike being ignored. I dislike hypocrisy. I dislike projection. I dislike being talked down to. I dislike feeling judged. I dislike people who gossip harshly about people behind their backs (admittedly, this is less about values and more about my own insecurities).
7. Which habit do you most automatically act on? Rank the following habits from most to least automatic, on a scale of 1 (most) to 3 (least).
a.) Work for personal gain with more concern for self than for others. - 2
b.) Strive for a sense of tranquility in yourself and the world around you - 1
c.) Decide what is right for the betterment of something or someone else. - 3
Doesn't say anything although the attitude seems to reveal a positive outlook bias.8. Where does the wandering mind take you? What provokes this?
It takes me wherever I want it to, really! I have self control over my train of thought. Realistically, I am quite spacey and unaware of the world around me. My mind wanders constantly.
9.What makes you feel your best? What makes you feel your worst?
I feel my best when I am accomplished, appreciated, working on something I enjoy, having a good time, or being included in a group. I feel my worst when I am anxious, depressed, lazy, or left out.
10. Let's talk about emotions. Explain what might make you feel the following, how they feel to you or how you react to the emotion:
a.) anger
b.) shame
c.) anxiety
a.) I have a good hold on my anger, though admittedly, I am a control freak and can become irrationally aggressive when challenged. Little things make me angrier than outright insults. Generally, I strive to be level-headed, and outbursts seem so tasteless now that I'm older...I think I'm more forgiving of other people's anger than I am my own. I might react by shutting myself out from others and brooding for a while, then distracting myself from whatever made me angry. Otherwise, I will assertively challenge the other person's opinion.
b.) I feel shame towards my body, at times. I feel shame when I fall short on something I try to do, and I feel shame when I'm wrong about something. Shame generally makes me close in on myself.
c.) I have long struggled with anxiety to the point of frequent panic attacks, but I generally deal with anxiety by either trying to solve what is making me so anxious or rationalizing the situation in my mind, if it is beyond my control. I very much like having control.
11. Describe how you respond to the following:
a.) stress
b.) negative unexpected change
c.) conflict
a.) Depends on the kind of stress. Some stress can be good, it can push you to do something you've been putting off, and I am a notorious procrastinator even though it makes me feel miserable. Overwhelming stress makes me feel like escaping.
b.) I do like planning things, so negative unexpected change bothers me quite a bit. Sometimes, it can get me really upset. But usually, I sort of deal with it; you can't change everything, so why bother trying?
c.) I try to sort out conflict so it doesn't go un-addressed. Perhaps that makes me seem like someone who always needs to have the last word, but I find it far more beneficial to talk things out than to let them build up until it all boils over.
12. a.) What kind of role are you naturally inclined to take in a group? Why?
b.) If put in power, how do you behave? Why?
c.) Do you tend to struggle with others who have authority over you? Why?
a.) I think I generally gravitate towards a leadership role. Perhaps not prime executive, but the one who plans out what everyone will do and when. This can be a positive thing and it can be a negative thing. I can't stand passivity, though, so I don't like to be just 'a follower'. (So average and plain.)
b.) I try to handle power well, but I can, admittedly, become a bit of a dictator about it.
Doesn't say anything.c.) Yes, if the authority is corrupt or inappropriate. Not all authority gives me an immediate negative reaction. I suppose I'm not incredibly sensitive to it unless someone is challenging the authority that I hold.
Doesn't say anything.13. What do you see or notice in others that most people don't?
Motivations, perhaps; I think I see through facades pretty skillfully, even those that are carefully placed. I also see solutions to people's problems. I consider myself to be very good at giving advice.
14. Comment on your relationship with trust.
I hate to misplace my trust in people, and I can be very aloof, but trust is never incredibly stable for me in the first place. I don't see the world as a struggle between non-trustworthy and trustworthy, but I think it is important to pay attention to who is really your friend and who is not.
Doesn't say anything.15. Briefly: What religious and/or political beliefs do you have? Do you think they influenced your responses in this questionnaire?
I do my own thing, I suppose; it hasn't influenced my responses.
Extra Questions
Which of the following temptations do you find yourself acting upon the most? (And briefly state why)
- To constantly push yourself to be “the best" - I have to be successful to be happy, though I follow my own standards for success, or at least I try to.
- To be without needs, well-intentioned
- To replace direct experience with concepts- I don't have much direct experience with the world, so I learn all I can about what I have not experienced.
- To have an extreme sense of personal moral obligation
- To think that fulfillment is somewhere else - I can't help but think I'm missing things that would make me happier.
- To cyclically become indecisive and seek others for reassurance - This is a bit iffier. I consider myself able to make my own decisions, but I become indecisive when it's something I'm not very knowledgeable about, and I go to others for confirmation of my own suspicions, not for actual reassurance, if that makes any sense.
Doesn't say anything.- To overuse imagination in searching for yourself - Kind of speaks for itself.
- To avoid conflicts and asserting yourself
- To consider yourself entirely self-sufficient
Very 9-ish.What's something you are: a.) thankful you have b.) wish you could have? Why?
I can answer these both at once because they're related. I'm thankful I have the ability to see things from different perspectives and to not have my judgement clouded by my own subjective beliefs, but at the same time, I think I have an odd way of processing things.
I pause and think about how to react to something, how I should feel about something, whether to my own standards or to someone else's. It's strange. I almost wish I could be comfortable with expression, not feel like I'm giving too much of myself away, freely react to things without having to process it first, know how it feels to live completely in the moment - something I rarely do.
Fail to see the so/sx or sx/so. I think sp/sx is more appropriate. So tentatively saying 9w1 sp/sx.I got a bit lazy at the end there, forgive me. Anyways. I have my own suspicions, but I'll withhold them for now because I want to see what you all think based on my answers. And if you want to give a go at guessing my tritype or instinctual variant, go ahead, although I believe my instinctual variant is so/sx or sx/so.
I don't relate much to the positive outlook triad, I'm not affectionate, I enjoy being assertive, I'm not particularly relaxed or peaceful, I feel more comfortable in my inner world than in the external, I'm not very optimistic, etc. Perhaps not incredibly far-fetched, on second thought. But not very likely, either.
If I could choose to be any type, I'd be a 7, so no. I'm not idealizing 3, and why do you think I might be disintegrating? I'm at a much higher point in my health than I have been for a long time - unless you think it's minor disintegration, which I perhaps could agree with. I don't know where on earth you see 9, though; I ruled it out because it's incredibly far-fetched.
Eventually, that is.
I haven't had much luck on PerC, so I'm here and yeah cool right
Copied and pasted:
It's not that I don't understand myself, because I do;
I only fear I have not learned the application of Enneagram theory well enough in regards to myself. Perhaps I am too young to fully have a type, though I've settled into the MBTI type of INTJ quite well. But I've gone through just about every type as a possibility - and here's what I can deduce.
- I'm not a 2, 7, 8, or 9.
- I relate strongly to each heart, head, and gut triads.
- I am most likely not a reactive type, though the possibility still remains.
- I relate to each type in some way or another.
For ease, I've filled a questionnaire out.
Prerequisites
What age range are you in?
I prefer not to disclose my age publicly. I will say, however, that I'm considerably younger than the average TC user.
Any disorders or conditions we should know about?
I have a history of severe anxiety, as well as some lingering trauma from childhood neglect, and depersonalization that fluctuates in intensity. I'm alright now, though.
Overall, I would say I am of average health.
Main Questions
1. What do you think your life is about? What drives you in life? This can be something like a goal or a purpose, or anything else that comes to mind.
Isn't the subjectivity of life part of what makes it so fascinating? One universal purpose would make life much, much grayer. In all seriousness, though, I strive for personal happiness and success. Short-term goals include completing an above average education to ensure financial stability, a personal sense of achievement, and a career I enjoy doing. Even more short-term, having self control with what I eat, and loosening up, so to speak. I'm not naturally a social person, though I do deeply desire to interact with groups, individuals, and the world.
2. What were you like as a kid?
Dictatorial, tyrannical, hyperactive.
I imposed my pretensions on other children, but at heart, I was a bright, creative, and curious child. I could not control my temper for the first eight years or so, unfortunately. I was a go-getter.
I even invented 'personal assistants', where I would pay other children to do my bidding. Eventually, that got banned from the classroom - excuse me for being business-minded.
3. Describe your relationship with your parents. Does anything stand out about the way you interacted?
I was previously quite close to my mother, now I am close to my father. However, even as a child, I was uncomfortable with emotional intimacy, and I still am. It feels wrong to give too much of myself to others, and that makes me colder than perhaps I'd like to be.
4. What values are important to you? What do you hope to avoid doing or being?
All of my values are very, very important to me. I consider them to be fair and respectful of different ideologies and so on, but they are, for the most part, non-negotiable.
My most prominent value is probably equal rights. However, values that are unrelated to morality are much more flexible.
5. Aside from phobias, are there any fears that characterized your childhood? Have they continued into the present day, or not, and if not, how have you dealt with them?
Perhaps not characterized, but flavored. Social anxiety, a fear of being wrong, a fear of appearing incompetent, a fear of rejection, a fear of failure - those are the most prominent ones, the ones I still have today, the ones that bother me most deeply.
6. a.) How do you see yourself?
b.) How do you want others to see you?
c.) What do you dislike the most in other people?
a.) I see myself as a lot of things. I consider myself to be very self-aware (painfully so at times). I have good qualities and I have faults. Some of my good qualities are how I naturally see many sides of a situation, my intelligence, my love for intellectual endeavors, my wit, my creativity, and my ability to project whatever persona I should choose.
Some of my faults include my rigidity,
my inability to see myself as wrong on matters that are not concrete (based in fact),
my emotional aloofness,
and my condescending attitude.
b.) I want others to see me as ingenious, wise, accomplished, different, and deep. I also want them to see me as funny, helpful, and polite.
c.) I dislike a lack of logic behind emotions and actions. I dislike inconsistency. I dislike being ignored. I dislike hypocrisy. I dislike projection. I dislike being talked down to. I dislike feeling judged. I dislike people who gossip harshly about people behind their backs (admittedly, this is less about values and more about my own insecurities).
7. Which habit do you most automatically act on? Rank the following habits from most to least automatic, on a scale of 1 (most) to 3 (least).
a.) Work for personal gain with more concern for self than for others. - 2
b.) Strive for a sense of tranquility in yourself and the world around you - 1
c.) Decide what is right for the betterment of something or someone else. - 3
8. Where does the wandering mind take you? What provokes this?
It takes me wherever I want it to, really! I have self control over my train of thought. Realistically, I am quite spacey and unaware of the world around me. My mind wanders constantly.
9.What makes you feel your best? What makes you feel your worst?
I feel my best when I am accomplished, appreciated, working on something I enjoy, having a good time, or being included in a group. I feel my worst when I am anxious, depressed, lazy, or left out.
10. Let's talk about emotions. Explain what might make you feel the following, how they feel to you or how you react to the emotion:
a.) anger
b.) shame
c.) anxiety
a.) I have a good hold on my anger, though admittedly, I am a control freak and can become irrationally aggressive when challenged. Little things make me angrier than outright insults. Generally, I strive to be level-headed, and outbursts seem so tasteless now that I'm older...I think I'm more forgiving of other people's anger than I am my own. I might react by shutting myself out from others and brooding for a while, then distracting myself from whatever made me angry. Otherwise, I will assertively challenge the other person's opinion.
b.) I feel shame towards my body, at times. I feel shame when I fall short on something I try to do, and I feel shame when I'm wrong about something. Shame generally makes me close in on myself.
c.) I have long struggled with anxiety to the point of frequent panic attacks, but I generally deal with anxiety by either trying to solve what is making me so anxious or rationalizing the situation in my mind, if it is beyond my control. I very much like having control.
11. Describe how you respond to the following:
a.) stress
b.) negative unexpected change
c.) conflict
a.) Depends on the kind of stress. Some stress can be good, it can push you to do something you've been putting off, and I am a notorious procrastinator even though it makes me feel miserable. Overwhelming stress makes me feel like escaping.
b.) I do like planning things, so negative unexpected change bothers me quite a bit. Sometimes, it can get me really upset. But usually, I sort of deal with it; you can't change everything, so why bother trying?
c.) I try to sort out conflict so it doesn't go un-addressed. Perhaps that makes me seem like someone who always needs to have the last word, but I find it far more beneficial to talk things out than to let them build up until it all boils over.
12. a.) What kind of role are you naturally inclined to take in a group? Why?
b.) If put in power, how do you behave? Why?
c.) Do you tend to struggle with others who have authority over you? Why?
a.) I think I generally gravitate towards a leadership role. Perhaps not prime executive, but the one who plans out what everyone will do and when. This can be a positive thing and it can be a negative thing. I can't stand passivity, though, so I don't like to be just 'a follower'. (So average and plain.)
b.) I try to handle power well, but I can, admittedly, become a bit of a dictator about it.
c.) Yes, if the authority is corrupt or inappropriate. Not all authority gives me an immediate negative reaction. I suppose I'm not incredibly sensitive to it unless someone is challenging the authority that I hold.
13. What do you see or notice in others that most people don't?
Motivations, perhaps; I think I see through facades pretty skillfully, even those that are carefully placed. I also see solutions to people's problems. I consider myself to be very good at giving advice.
14. Comment on your relationship with trust.
I hate to misplace my trust in people, and I can be very aloof, but trust is never incredibly stable for me in the first place. I don't see the world as a struggle between non-trustworthy and trustworthy, but I think it is important to pay attention to who is really your friend and who is not.
15. Briefly: What religious and/or political beliefs do you have? Do you think they influenced your responses in this questionnaire?
I do my own thing, I suppose; it hasn't influenced my responses.
Extra Questions
Which of the following temptations do you find yourself acting upon the most? (And briefly state why)
- To constantly push yourself to be “the best" - I have to be successful to be happy, though I follow my own standards for success, or at least I try to.
- To be without needs, well-intentioned
- To replace direct experience with concepts- I don't have much direct experience with the world, so I learn all I can about what I have not experienced.
- To have an extreme sense of personal moral obligation
- To think that fulfillment is somewhere else - I can't help but think I'm missing things that would make me happier.
- To cyclically become indecisive and seek others for reassurance - This is a bit iffier. I consider myself able to make my own decisions, but I become indecisive when it's something I'm not very knowledgeable about, and I go to others for confirmation of my own suspicions, not for actual reassurance, if that makes any sense.
- To overuse imagination in searching for yourself - Kind of speaks for itself.
- To avoid conflicts and asserting yourself
- To consider yourself entirely self-sufficient
What's something you are: a.) thankful you have b.) wish you could have? Why?
I can answer these both at once because they're related. I'm thankful I have the ability to see things from different perspectives and to not have my judgement clouded by my own subjective beliefs, but at the same time, I think I have an odd way of processing things. I pause and think about how to react to something, how I should feel about something, whether to my own standards or to someone else's. It's strange. I almost wish I could be comfortable with expression, not feel like I'm giving too much of myself away, freely react to things without having to process it first, know how it feels to live completely in the moment - something I rarely do.
I got a bit lazy at the end there, forgive me. Anyways. I have my own suspicions, but I'll withhold them for now because I want to see what you all think based on my answers. And if you want to give a go at guessing my tritype or instinctual variant, go ahead, although I believe my instinctual variant is so/sx or sx/so.
Umm. I don't think emotional aloofness is exclusive to the withdrawn triad.
Why do you think enneagram type profiles describe 3w4s as ice queens?
Did you read the rest of my analysis? Any other protests?
It's not exclusive - but on the other hand, if I recall correctly, it is indeed part of what Naranjo describes for type 9. Emotional detachment holds more for type 5, in the sense that they detach from the emotions they feel deeply within, but will often still recognize them. It's not what I think of first for type 3, who are more attached to their achievements and what they can get people to think of them, though it might end up a trait.
Nope, didn't read. Too long. Not everyone reads everything in entirety on the internet.
LeaT said:Why none of these types?
Sp tinted with sx, seeking financial stability and such. The latter portion in relation to socialization could relate to social blind spot.
I can't fully make sense of this. How does any of this fully relate to the question itself? You didn't really answer it.
You didn't answer the question. Can you explain what you wish to avoid doing and why?
And what do these fears mean, exactly?
Never thought this question was particularly good but more points for 9.
This here is very, very 9-ish, especially the part in bold. That's how 9s approach problems.
Doesn't say anything.
What does this pertain?
Meaning what exactly?
Flatlander said:The positive outlook triader is inclined to refuse to face some element of themself. The 2 is ashamed to have needs so they fail to face it out of pride; the 7 doesn't face their own fear and instead turns to the external world to fulfill their gluttonous want for mental sustenance; the 9 doesn't face their own anger and instead wishes to live in harmony with the world. Like all of the Enneagram, these produce mental traps. Specifically in the case of the 9, the trap is to be personally - psychospiritually - lazy and live at ease with life, which promotes a mindset that tends to be hazy and only scrape the surface of self and world.
If you're in a place of great health and you're looking like a 3, but it's underlay by a general psychospiritual laziness, chances are you're a 9
As for the liking of 7, may I ask you why?
What do you understand about yourself?
What does this mean, exactly?
How did you figure this out?
That contradicts what you said above, and it speaks to a more universal truth.
What exactly do you need to loosen up about?
The particular adjective "wrong" strikes me - why does it feel wrong to you?
Also, how did you get close to either parent without emotional intimacy? What makes you uncomfortable with it? Why would you like not to be so cold?
Why are values that are very, very important to you, so flexible? How does this fit with the idea that they are non-negotiable?
I'm particularly interested in where/how you see rigidity in yourself. Type 9 is obstinate, in particular.
How does this relate with your ability to project personas?
Obstinacy again, e9. Also something of a positivity (that whole 'positive triad') trait, because of the willful ignorance of lack.
Anyone can have one. Why would you say this manifests in yourself?
Where does 'different' come in for you? What does it mean, and what would be the benefit of others seeing it in you?
Why do you dislike these things?
Indicative of 9 as per the question, if the other options are taken into account it indicates 9w8.
Control over your train of thought - why did you cultivate that?
What would you say your priority is, in thinking, and stopping thought? What is your purpose?
Why do you hold back your own anger and forgive others?
I might put a w5 to your 6 fix. What does rationalizing it do for you? What does control do for you? How do these things help you? Can you describe/explain?
Why does procrastination make you feel miserable?
but you apparently don't try to change things
What is your goal in conflict? Why do you need to address it?
Why do you take this role, though? Is it purposeful? It sounds like a 9 taking on qualities of 3 to me, because you 'gravitate' rather than grasping.
What repels you about the average and plain? Why do you consider it average and plain to be a follower?
What does 'well' mean? Why do you become a dictator?
How do you deem authority corrupt or inappropriate? Do you tend to comply with authority that isn't?
Why do you seek to understand these things?
Can you give an example of a problem you might see through, and the advice you might give?
The one question I have, really, is what you mean by your own standards for success. How does that work? Can you give an example?
There is not a mind in the world that is unburdened by any subjective belief, but to try to deny them in this way, combined with a universal perspective like you've expressed at points in this questionnaire, is often indicative of type 9.
inner haze in the manner of a 9
Where does "should" come into the matter of feeling? Feeling itself simply happens; how can it be prescribed - why would it be prescribed?
I don't see sexual variant much at all in this questionnaire, and I don't think I saw it on PerC either; I'd consider so/sp or sp/so for your typing.
Umm. I don't think emotional aloofness is exclusive to the withdrawn triad.
Why do you think enneagram type profiles describe 3w4s as ice queens?
In other news, Title's thread is a hit. Lovely self-promotion going on there, [MENTION=15897]Title[/MENTION]! And you know what type they associate self-promotion to
Or, you know, I could spend 40 minutes responding to you guys and never get a reply. That's real cool.
There's not much point responding, to be honest, because you didn't write much to analyze.
The OP is not so much into analysis as ass licking.
The OP is not so much into analysis as ass licking.