Cypocalypse
New member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 252
- MBTI Type
- eNtP
- Enneagram
- 4w5/
I'm just playing out with some ideas in my head. I just wanna know other people's thought on this.
For one, does anyone here think that the perception of INTPs' laziness is overblown because of their perceived intelligence, and they are, expected to be achievers like TJs? It's like....INTPs can't afford to get lazy because its a waste of "intelligence". I don't see any other P variants to be as pressured, achievement-wise, as much as the INTP.
I have a gay ESFP friend. Not really one of the best students around when he was my classmate back then. He just like to draw women and clothing when he was inside the class (which then makes me question if INTPs are realistically or comparatively lazy, because they're always seemed to be smacked in the TJ world). He eventually took up advertising (a forte of people attuned to the arts) in college and is now working in that field. I don't see his life to be very organized (much like what you would expect from a P), and he's having the regular troubles, like money management and whatnot. But among my friends, he's among the one that I can really say that's generally realistically happy. And more importantly, he's not that much pressured to achieve, or so i think.
He's among my friends who taught me the virtue of living by the present (biggest advice, he gave me, ever), and while the idea may seem silly to the TJ type, it got me thinking. He is the happy one. And I would probably want it for myself. That time, I don't know yet anything about MBTI to know my difference from the other archetypes of perceived intellect (e.g., xNTJ, xSTJ). It's like, it would be a form of false humility to say that I'm not intelligent in any way, but I don't consider myself to be very much like them either.
________________
My dad is an aloof ISTJ and mom is an ESFJ teacher. Mom pressured me too much under the conventional form of learning. Mom wanted me to be an INTJ/ISTJ bookworm or something, but she never saw me studying with the ethical level of a stereotypical bookworm. Though I would consider now that back then, my Ne/Ti axis would help me get the needed understanding of lessons, which can help me get good grades, in my mom's opinion, I would have always achieved better if I wasn't as "lazy." What I hardly realized back then was...Si /Te was slowly creating a strain on my character and I wouldn't be able to anticipate my eventual implosion until much later, in my later years in college. I just....lost motivation. At that time, I was in my early 20s. I'm now 26. Understanding of MBTI just happened a few months ago.
Now, I can say that, I can both picture out the STJ/NTJ life because my life was structured to live in that, and I can also picture out the NTP life because it's probably what's innate in me and now, I know the basics to fully appreciate and embrace it.
_________________
Looking back at my earlier coerced TJ life, I would think that TJ is a life of putting a lot of sacrifices in the present in the hopes of a future vindication. What most Js overlook is that, the future vindication is only temporal, and the sacrifices continue.
It's like work. You work for a job promotion, in the hopes of a better future compensation. Then you get promoted, and then your workload adjusts accordingly (offsetting the benefits of a higher salary). It gets heavier. And then you work for another sort of a job promotion. And then the cycle continues. Vindications are temporal and incremental, and the sacrifices are ongoing.
I now live independently from my parents, and still, I would often get that scrutiny on why I don't handle money as efficiently as they want me to, or how much I lack consideration of the future. I would like to say to them that they're already getting old and their quest for the future vindication is still ongoing. They're still as anxious before as they were back then. So where's the actual point of vindication here? Did that actually happen? What is "the future" when they're not getting younger? Shouldn't they, retrospect?
_________________
I guess that, to the young INTPs here who view life as a journey instead of a destination, they already have an idea that the notion of a future vindication that the Js were thinking is a some sort of a delusion that they've created, to keep them going in the plight of their current sacrifices. They eventually achieve something, until they realize that they get old enough and starts to question if that point of vindication ever happened or will happen, at all.
(Most of you would probably notice that this thread seems to be a dichotomy of an INTP quarter life crisis, narrating the implications of what would be a mid-life crisis for some people).
Looking back at what my gay friend told me--he's right partially. He's right in the sense that considerations about the present should be balanced with the considerations of the future. Balance is what an INTP wants to achieve in the first place. With all these talks about the bigger picture and whatnot, and the ultimate goal of understanding the essence of everything, the INTP is at the center of world he so wishes to understand, with nothing to be overlooked, minimizing impartiality, and forging possibly the strongest sense of individuality among the other MBTI archetypes.
_____________
I was thinking that the SJ culture that I was raised has driven me to be the one in the family that understands, even if it may dampen my future productivity. And as an INTP, I take pride in understanding what was overlooked by others who were too busy to have a time to understand, at all. Hence the burden of understanding was rested on my shoulder. And being the person who pursues understanding way beyond others, the need to be strong in the inner world is there, because INTPs are misunderstood outside. The one that can understand, is the one that should be tolerant. INTPs are recipients of strong TJ accusations, and we have to make sure that our sense of self is strong enough to take them.
For one, does anyone here think that the perception of INTPs' laziness is overblown because of their perceived intelligence, and they are, expected to be achievers like TJs? It's like....INTPs can't afford to get lazy because its a waste of "intelligence". I don't see any other P variants to be as pressured, achievement-wise, as much as the INTP.
I have a gay ESFP friend. Not really one of the best students around when he was my classmate back then. He just like to draw women and clothing when he was inside the class (which then makes me question if INTPs are realistically or comparatively lazy, because they're always seemed to be smacked in the TJ world). He eventually took up advertising (a forte of people attuned to the arts) in college and is now working in that field. I don't see his life to be very organized (much like what you would expect from a P), and he's having the regular troubles, like money management and whatnot. But among my friends, he's among the one that I can really say that's generally realistically happy. And more importantly, he's not that much pressured to achieve, or so i think.
He's among my friends who taught me the virtue of living by the present (biggest advice, he gave me, ever), and while the idea may seem silly to the TJ type, it got me thinking. He is the happy one. And I would probably want it for myself. That time, I don't know yet anything about MBTI to know my difference from the other archetypes of perceived intellect (e.g., xNTJ, xSTJ). It's like, it would be a form of false humility to say that I'm not intelligent in any way, but I don't consider myself to be very much like them either.
________________
My dad is an aloof ISTJ and mom is an ESFJ teacher. Mom pressured me too much under the conventional form of learning. Mom wanted me to be an INTJ/ISTJ bookworm or something, but she never saw me studying with the ethical level of a stereotypical bookworm. Though I would consider now that back then, my Ne/Ti axis would help me get the needed understanding of lessons, which can help me get good grades, in my mom's opinion, I would have always achieved better if I wasn't as "lazy." What I hardly realized back then was...Si /Te was slowly creating a strain on my character and I wouldn't be able to anticipate my eventual implosion until much later, in my later years in college. I just....lost motivation. At that time, I was in my early 20s. I'm now 26. Understanding of MBTI just happened a few months ago.
Now, I can say that, I can both picture out the STJ/NTJ life because my life was structured to live in that, and I can also picture out the NTP life because it's probably what's innate in me and now, I know the basics to fully appreciate and embrace it.
_________________
Looking back at my earlier coerced TJ life, I would think that TJ is a life of putting a lot of sacrifices in the present in the hopes of a future vindication. What most Js overlook is that, the future vindication is only temporal, and the sacrifices continue.
It's like work. You work for a job promotion, in the hopes of a better future compensation. Then you get promoted, and then your workload adjusts accordingly (offsetting the benefits of a higher salary). It gets heavier. And then you work for another sort of a job promotion. And then the cycle continues. Vindications are temporal and incremental, and the sacrifices are ongoing.
I now live independently from my parents, and still, I would often get that scrutiny on why I don't handle money as efficiently as they want me to, or how much I lack consideration of the future. I would like to say to them that they're already getting old and their quest for the future vindication is still ongoing. They're still as anxious before as they were back then. So where's the actual point of vindication here? Did that actually happen? What is "the future" when they're not getting younger? Shouldn't they, retrospect?
_________________
I guess that, to the young INTPs here who view life as a journey instead of a destination, they already have an idea that the notion of a future vindication that the Js were thinking is a some sort of a delusion that they've created, to keep them going in the plight of their current sacrifices. They eventually achieve something, until they realize that they get old enough and starts to question if that point of vindication ever happened or will happen, at all.
(Most of you would probably notice that this thread seems to be a dichotomy of an INTP quarter life crisis, narrating the implications of what would be a mid-life crisis for some people).
Looking back at what my gay friend told me--he's right partially. He's right in the sense that considerations about the present should be balanced with the considerations of the future. Balance is what an INTP wants to achieve in the first place. With all these talks about the bigger picture and whatnot, and the ultimate goal of understanding the essence of everything, the INTP is at the center of world he so wishes to understand, with nothing to be overlooked, minimizing impartiality, and forging possibly the strongest sense of individuality among the other MBTI archetypes.
_____________
I was thinking that the SJ culture that I was raised has driven me to be the one in the family that understands, even if it may dampen my future productivity. And as an INTP, I take pride in understanding what was overlooked by others who were too busy to have a time to understand, at all. Hence the burden of understanding was rested on my shoulder. And being the person who pursues understanding way beyond others, the need to be strong in the inner world is there, because INTPs are misunderstood outside. The one that can understand, is the one that should be tolerant. INTPs are recipients of strong TJ accusations, and we have to make sure that our sense of self is strong enough to take them.