Do explain what you mean though.
And while you're explaining, please explain your understanding of So.
But, it seems like they want to keep you on some list somewhere anyway, like on some sort of back burner or something. This is alien to me, mostly because friends to me are people who have a regular and persistent presence. Everyone else is just... everyone else to me.
it bothers me that the 'friend' part was never really about being friends.
But, it seems like they want to keep you on some list somewhere anyway, like on some sort of back burner or something. This is alien to me, mostly because friends to me are people who have a regular and persistent presence. Everyone else is just... everyone else to me.
[MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION]
I guess I didn't really mention a situation, because I was talking in general... except I'm not. I actually have one situation on my mind and I'm evaluating it based on a Frankensteinien composite ExFP SO woman I have in my head. The actual facts are completely different for each situation.. EXCEPT for the whole feeling like I'm being managed as an object at some point. I know this sounds like normal social protocol, but.. check out my instinctual stacking.
Anyway, thanks for answering. I can't really give details on an internet forum, just doesn't seem right.
^ This.I'll speak for myself as an So dom. I am loathe to burn bridges. I can and have done so though. A part of me always tries to keep things impersonal with a person I might not otherwise like in order to keep open a line, or a potential line of communication. Circumstances change and people change their minds or have a change of "heart", myself included. Burned bridges tends to remove this "option".
^ This too.I'm not sure I totally understand the situation... but as far as I do grasp, I'm not really sure I understand the perceived slight. If there was chemistry between you two, but then something happened and it's not there anymore, and she's been less attentive to you, doesn't that seem like a sort of natural thing to have happened? If she wanted you two to get closer while you were courting, she naturally would have moved you to the top of her priority list and devoted extra time and energy to you. But if that became an obvious inevitability for whatever reason, then it seems natural for her to not prioritize you as much anymore. It doesn't seem hurtful to me. Each of us only has so much energy to spend. We don't really have any choice but to play the resource management game.
At least for me, there is a very fine - sometimes nonexistent - line between friend and romantic interest. Obviously there are some friends I would not date because I am not attracted to them, but there are others I am genuine friends with and would consider, were I in a position to be courting and they were as well. Basically I hang out with people whom I enjoy, and I don't often make much of a mental separation between "friend" and "potential love interest". It's just that "potential love interest" has to meet a number of more stringent requirements... perhaps I should put it this way: if you are a potential love interest, you already automatically qualify as friend. So I could be wrong, but for this reason, I don't suspect she was "faking".
Damn... That rings true. I can totally see how my extroveted social-first behavior could come across that way. Maybe it IS managing people as objects.The actual facts are completely different for each situation.. EXCEPT for the whole feeling like I'm being managed as an object at some point. I know this sounds like normal social protocol, but.. check out my instinctual stacking.
^ This.
Small, personal example: I had a falling out with a friend a while back, but kept her my friend on Facebook. Can't envision a time when I'll want to really be her friend again, but I do still care about her, and she's a good person, so I want to keep that option open. Plus: that's a sign to her that I DO still care about her, despite everything. (And we have so many mutual friends, that it would be incredibly awkward if I burned that bridge.)
^ This too.
It's also worth mentioning that seeing how you act in a group situation, with her mutual friends, is a bit of a test. I've done that exact thing. The one-on-one sx thing is not always a good judge of character, but seeing how you interact with others is a much better one. (Similar to the test re: how they treat servers at restaurants.)
Also, if she was looking for something casual, it may have made her life a lot easier if she could push the "friend time" and "romantic time" circles a bit closer on her relationship venn diagram.
Damn... That rings true. I can totally see how my extroveted social-first behavior could come across that way. Maybe it IS managing people as objects.
I guess I can try to describe it this way (speaking for Exxx so/sx but likely not for Exxx so/sp): We want to be there for EVERYBODY. We want to interact with the WORLD, in a sense. And like skylights said, we only have so much energy. Meaning, we often have to put up strict boundaries with the people we don't have the energy saved up for -- even if we really, really like those people. I can't even count the number of people I absolutely adore, but who I just can't spend time on/with. It frustrates me to no end. In a perfect world, I'd have a gazillion more close friends than I do. But I just can't.
I know -- you mentioned that before to skylights -- but I'm using examples same as you are. They all can apply to the general.I'm not talking about anybody in particular.. I just happen to post this wondering out of the blue random about things that have occurred to me sometime in the past, having nothing at all to do with the present.. NOTHING
Whereas I would probably see it as disrespectful if that same person DIDN'T invite me. Or at least it would hurt my feelings a bit, because it would mean that they didn't care about me the way I still cared about them. Instinctual variant related communication breakdowns for the win?The thing is that to me, this is just a matter of nuance. It's the whole avoidance-of-social-awkwardness thing that acts as an irritant to me. In anybody that I want to spend time with, I require a certain amount of honesty mixed with empathy for what my expectations are, which I try to make clear with my own way of interacting. An invite from a friend that I am on the rocks with to some event where we would just happen to be at the same venue to me smacks of disrespect. From their perspective it may seem like a token to show they care, but for me it feels like they think I have nothing better to do than to bask in their social company from 20 foot away.
But what are they supposed to do AFTER they say that? Just ignore you until they decided they want to fully immerse themselves in your friendship again?I also have a tendency to want to react very badly to being managed. I'm just ornery, and it turns out very bad if I don't keep myself in check. I'm an ENFP, and I know how to test boundaries, and it's my natural inclination just to make everybody as uncomfortable as hell. On the flip side, if someone just tells me, "Look, Qlip. I care for you, but I just need time before we resume our friendship.", then my heart swells with admiration because that shows care to me and I back off. It takes investment to be blunt.
I know -- you mentioned that before to skylights -- but I'm using examples same as you are. They all can apply to the general.
Whereas I would probably see it as disrespectful if that same person DIDN'T invite me. Or at least it would hurt my feelings a bit, because it would mean that they didn't care about me the way I still cared about them. Instinctual variant related communication breakdowns for the win?
But what are they supposed to do AFTER they say that? Just ignore you until they decided they want to fully immerse themselves in your friendship again?
(Asking in part to figure out what to do re: the friend I mentioned)
*shrugs* for me, an So dom, it depends on YOUR own feelings, really. I don't generally initiate interaction (I can ...it happens), but if I do or if you do and you do a lot of confiding in me and you start to feel close to me, I will let that be. I don't think I would dump you to chase after someone else who is more interesting ...but at the same time, I never expected or tried to build a relationship with you or anyone for that matter. If a meaningful relationship happens ...then it just happens with what feels like little effort on my part because you probably intrigue me a lot, like a really really really good movie. But most likely, we're in a relationship because YOU don't care that I act like a fucking maniac. Also, ...I am lazy as hell; I don't care to be like "I really appreciate you and I want to invest in a relationship with you ...so ask me how I am doing once in a while or and I'll invite you to a party so we can spend time together and share experiences together"
...Oh and another thing to note: if you invite me to dinner... I would go to dinner with almost anyone... so yes, you'll be disappointed once you realize that I am only hanging out with you because it's fun to wonder the streets and eat Korean food, not because I truly care to spend time with you specifically.
I can see how it seems like an So dom and extrovert may be leading you on because I am chill and friendly/sparkly with anyone ...it's never indicative of where you stand with me.
Qlip said:It's the whole avoidance-of-social-awkwardness thing that acts as an irritant to me.
I haven't actually noticed the phenomenon you mentioned in your OP, at least as being related to social-first extraversion. But I do notice the phenomenon quoted here--I've often felt like a "backup" friend, or The Friend I'll Use When Everyone Else Fails. I assumed it had something to do with me, because I suck, because I'm not likeable enough, because I'm a 4w5, or whatnot.Ehhh.. now that I think of it, mostly it's all because I'm being downgraded from being a romantic interest. The whole thing confuses this ENFP, mostly because it seems like during the SO courting process that I've been involved in, it's always been in the guise of friendliness and group activity, so I don't quite get why that can't just resume in similar form after its ended. But it always ends up that I'm on a third tier social calendar, and it bothers me that the 'friend' part was never really about being friends.
But, it seems like they want to keep you on some list somewhere anyway, like on some sort of back burner or something. This is alien to me, mostly because friends to me are people who have a regular and persistent presence. Everyone else is just... everyone else to me.