[NF] Can NFs be ruthless, cruel or evil?

[sLiPpY]

Exactly when are NF's not up to something?

 

[runvardh]

Exactly when are NF's not up to something?

Be afraid, be very afriad...

 

[proteanmix]

I don't understand why this is even a question.

NFs don't have a monopoly on compassion, charity, virtue, morality, or gumdrops and lollipops.

This is why I can't identify with NF descriptions. I find that they often place NFs on some goodness pedestal and I know that that's not me. And those that are answering in the vein of unintentionally would an NF be cruel and unusual or in extenuating circumstances to me makes it seems like NFs are somehow less predisposed to being incredibly fucked up individuals or some tragedy transmogrified an individual who would otherwise be saintly. Isn't that the case with most people who are warped and twisted?

I think temperament descriptions go too far when they say that NFs have a greater sense of empathy or are more sensitive than other temperaments. That's a ludicrous and unsubstantiated claim that people seem to consistently latch onto for reasons of bolstering their self-esteem and building a false self-concept.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I don't understand why this is even a question.

NFs don't have a monopoly on compassion, charity, virtue, morality, or gumdrops and lollipops.

This is why I can't identify with NF descriptions. I find that they often place NFs on some goodness pedestal and I know that that's not me. And those that are answering in the vein of unintentionally would an NF be cruel and unusual or in extenuating circumstances to me makes it seems like NFs are somehow less predisposed to being incredibly fucked up individuals or some tragedy transmogrified an individual who would otherwise be saintly. Isn't that the case with most people who are warped and twisted?

I think temperament descriptions go too far when they say that NFs have a greater sense of empathy or are more sensitive than other temperaments. That's a ludicrous and unsubstantiated claim that people seem to consistently latch onto for reasons of bolstering their self-esteem and building a false self-concept.

Did it ever occur to you that you are simply too J to be a "real idealist" ?

(just asking)

 

[Lauren Ashley]

Did it ever occur to you that you are simply too J to be a "real idealist" ?

(just asking)

Explain... what does that mean? A real idealist?

 

[proteanmix]

Did it ever occur to you that you are simply too J to be a "real idealist" ?

(just asking)

Ahh, this reminds me of a conversation I had with Jennifer and why she's more inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt and why I'm not.

Basically I was like people can't be that stupid, I truly believe people are smarter than that and since I believe they are I expect them to be.

She was basically like I believe people are that stupid and since they are I can cut them some slack.

In the end, I felt like I had more confidence in people and that I was expecting them to be better because they could. I was then patted on the head, given a benevolent smile and a chocolate chip cookie.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Explain... what does that mean? A real idealist?

Well if you are too orderly and you focus too much on a decision making you will never become one of those fluffy stereotypical emo idealsts.


This is the only thing I am saying actually. (but I am not sure if I am correct)

 

[JustHer]

Why would a thinker be more likely to be evil than an NF?

It is probably easier for a thinker to be cruel than for a feeler, but at the same time it is harder for a thinker to be motivated enough to be cruel to somebody than for a feeler. Thinkers don't make their decisions with that much weight on emotion. I know that I personally can only extremely rarely muster up enough hate to actually want to bother to be cruel.

Strong positive emotions always come with strong negative emotions, so I think NFs are more likely to be cruel than NTs that are otherwise just neutral in general.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

I don't understand why this is even a question.

Neither do I. But I'm slowly learning not to be baffled by what is said on this forum.

Yes, cruel and evil NFs do exist. It seems the other posts explaining this were ignored, so I'll expound upon how:

Either of the F functions can be used to justify whatever the user wants. These actions can appear as "good" or "evil." And once the NF feels completely justified in their actions, there isn't much anyone can do about it; they are immune to logical or practical arguments against their behavior. As with one ENFP I know who is regularly rude and belittles others to tears in her quest to champion her ideas of moral behavior. Question her on it and she'll say "There is nothing wrong with what I did. If anything, more people should people like me." As with my ENFJ former friend who made it her mission to ruin anyone's life who so much as glanced at her the wrong way. She would slander their name, present false allegations when taken to court for her deeds (and win), turn their families against them, and even had one person beaten to a pulp by her friends. "Never pull a lion's tail" is her mantra. If that's not ruthless, cruel, or evil, tell me what is. These people are real and yes, they have taken the MBTI to confirm their types.

Also, to the OP, profiles and descriptions should be taken with a grain of salt. They almost always describe the ideal state of a type. For the plethora of ways a type manifests in reality, one would need to consult reality.

Well if you are too orderly and you focus too much on a decision making you will never become one of those fluffy stereotypical emo idealsts.

This is the only thing I am saying actually. (but I am not sure if I am correct)

Okay. But I don't think idealism has to be necessarily connected to "emo" behavior and in the case of NFJs is often not. Idealism results from vision, and that NFJs have in spades, even those with strong J. In that sense they could be considered the ultimate idealists.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Okay. But I don't think idealism has to be necessarily connected to "emo" behavior and in the case of NFJs is often not. Idealism results from vision, and that NFJs have in spades, even those with strong J. In that sense they could be considered the ultimate idealists.

I know, but people often don't see this as idealism.

 

[Requeim]

Honestly, I do think Hitler was a rather messed-up INFJ. /understatement

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO


NO NO NO

 

[FemMecha]

Ahh, this reminds me of a conversation I had with Jennifer and why she's more inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt and why I'm not.

Basically I was like people can't be that stupid, I truly believe people are smarter than that and since I believe they are I expect them to be.

She was basically like I believe people are that stupid and since they are I can cut them some slack.

Aren't both ideas correct depending on the person in question?

I wouldn't say people are "stupid" as a reason to cut them slack, but that they are strongly imprinted upon by circumstance, genetics, and environment (I'm guessing my overall approach to the idea is not unlike Jennifer's). I have a friend who works in the ER and relays stories about individuals who obsessively drink rubbing alcohol, or inflict other horrible wounds, or just represent the dregs of society and have the physical scars to show for it. The gamut of people's lives is vast, and there is always a reason why people do as they do. If I do not fully understand the cause, how can I judge the effect?

And yet the assumption that a person can do more can sometimes help them find the strength inside themselves. That strength had to already be there, and something previous happened to condition them to be able to respond to the gesture of confidence. I see it as a means to an end, but not the end in itself because complete understanding of any given human life is not available.

When there is someone acting cruelly or self-destructively, I ask myself what things would have to have taken place in my life, what kind of disposition would I have had to be born with, etc. to be that. There is one place in my mind that leaves unanswered the question of what would I have been like given the same parameters in life that other person was given. There is no way to prove I would not be exactly the same. It comes down to a question of whether one considers a person's life and choices deterministic or if one considers they have control and freedom to choose the outcome of their life. I don't know the answer to that question and so err on the side of the outcome being deterministic and approach the "freedom to control one's life" concept simply as a way to influence a pre-determined system. Perhaps saying that helps create an illusion that produces a better result?

 

[Lurker]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO


NO NO NO

Hmm. From what I've read of him, he does seem to fit the type. It's not a reflection on INFJs, though! I think they are awesome people in general. I really can't place him as any other type...

As for the OP, seriously, any type can be cruel or ruthless. This really should go without stating it's so obvious.

 

[cafe]

Ahh, this reminds me of a conversation I had with Jennifer and why she's more inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt and why I'm not.

Basically I was like people can't be that stupid, I truly believe people are smarter than that and since I believe they are I expect them to be.

She was basically like I believe people are that stupid and since they are I can cut them some slack.

In the end, I felt like I had more confidence in people and that I was expecting them to be better because they could. I was then patted on the head, given a benevolent smile and a chocolate chip cookie.

This is off-topic, but it reminds me of the reminders parents kept getting from the elementary school not to beckon our children across lanes of oncoming traffic. I thought they were being ridiculous. Who would do that?

Then one day I saw with my own eyes a mother trying to get her kid to cross the street when cars were coming.

It was a revelation that caused me to reevaluate what I thought I knew about my fellow man.

 

[alexx]

You have no idea.

 

[speculative]

Can NFs be ruthless, cruel or evil?

The question answers itself.

So instead I will say that a lot of the NFs on here are very helpful, friendly, and good.

 

[Cloudblue]

I think they can be ruthless,cruel or evil(depending on the definition),but,they would have to go through some messed up experiences first,until they eventually develop a certain tolerance for pain,and learn to love it...

 

[Bubbleboy]

Some of the adjectives from the profiles, describing NFs are: compassionate, nurturing, insightful and encouraging, altruistic, inspiring, warmly affectionate and affirming, empathetic, caring...

Now I'm thinking how can such a person be evil? I think it's not possible.

Don't you find it infinitely confining to percieve people, their vision and their potiential as to being derived from their personality type? Do you think all asians are good at math too, and all black guys steal cars?

 

[sleepy]

All 3, depends on the size of their Pness.

 

[BrokenSequencer]

I think anyone has the capacity to be cruel or hurtful. I think we, as INFJs, tend to look at things in terms of cost/benefit. Most people do, but it just so happens that we have a greater benefit ratio.

Personally, I am willing to put up with a lot, willing to put myself in the path of the train if it means that it will end with a greater pay off to someone else or myself.

For instance, relationships...I will put up with a lot (other than cheating) if it means that I can teach something or give something to the other person. Also, if I feel like it will be a payoff to me in the end (they learn, they grow, we become closer), then I'm willing to put up with a lot. I also recognize the good that is within each person, even if they are a leech or the walking dead. They are simply misinformed and lost. I am here to guide them.

It's when that cost/benefit ratio gets wacky that people do hurtful things. If the cost outweighs the benefit, and non-INFJs (or INFJs) feel like they can not continue, then the tendency to do hurtful things occurs. But, again, I feel we, as INFJs, have a high capacity to feel hurt because not only do we know that hurt on a more intimate level, so we know that hurt from different perspectives. We know what it feels like to hurt, so we avoid hurting others at all costs.