[Type 4] Advice for a Four?

[TheEmeraldCanopy]

How can an Enneagram Four go from unhealthy to healthy? What exactly must a Four do?

From self-pitying, envious, and lost in fantasy, to truly helpful, intuitive and creative, how can a Four begin this path and stay with it? I've been trying to figure out where to begin.


Sincerely,
An Unhealthy 4w3 Seeking Answers

 

[the state i am in]

recognizing your ability to help others deal with the contradictions you struggle with while, at the same time, still unsure about how to resolve internally for yourself. your storehouse of Fi judgments gives you far more sophistication when dealing with these issues than other people, you can lead them astray or you can just be sensitive, healing, and understanding, and help reconcile and refocus some obvious emotional mistakes. plus you can figure out how to make others happy very easily, articulate what they cannot.

 

[TheEmeraldCanopy]

Thank you for replying, state.

How does the "storehouse of Fi judgements" help with dealing with others' issues? I always thought that Fe was better at this.

 

[Meadow]

I just read this on the enneagram institute site: The 4s path of transformation has to do with "forgiveness."
"From Four, we experience Forgiveness, which is most simply the ability to let go of the events of the past and to move on with one's life. We stop clinging to old hurts and resentments, thereby opening up space in our hearts to be affected by people and events freshly, without the dense filters of emotional reactions leftover from our childhood. Rather than holding the world responsible for our frustrations, we begin to understand the forces in ourselves that perpetuate them. When we do this, we experience our lives and our identities as they truly are—that is, as a process, a flow. "

How to let go of the events from the past? I don't know. That's difficult for me at least.

 

[Kra]

Thank you for replying, state.

How does the "storehouse of Fi judgements" help with dealing with others' issues? I always thought that Fe was better at this.

Once you learn how to empathize more, those "Fi judgments" are like ammo. It makes you very good at answering the question, "How would that make me feel."

 

[Thalassa]

I just read this on the enneagram institute site: The 4s path of transformation has to do with "forgiveness."
"From Four, we experience Forgiveness, which is most simply the ability to let go of the events of the past and to move on with one's life. We stop clinging to old hurts and resentments, thereby opening up space in our hearts to be affected by people and events freshly, without the dense filters of emotional reactions leftover from our childhood. Rather than holding the world responsible for our frustrations, we begin to understand the forces in ourselves that perpetuate them. When we do this, we experience our lives and our identities as they truly are—that is, as a process, a flow. "

How to let go of the events from the past? I don't know. That's difficult for me at least.

People tend to emotionally recreate their past unless they release that old pain and do some serious self-examination into their own self-defeating behaviors. No matter what your parents or anyone else has done to you, ultimately as an adult it's more powerful to understand that you are free to live without that baggage. Forgiveness is as much (or more) for the forgiver than the forgiven. To hang on to old hurts and grudges hurts YOU far more than it does the people who inflicted the pain. Therefore, through self-love (valuing and empowering yourself as an adult to live life fully from this day foward) in turn you're able to love and forgive others more because you love and forgive yourself, and understand the true power in "letting go." It also helps to remind yourself that your parents or whomever else hurt you was just a human being, try putting yourself in their shoes and you might realize a little better why they did what they did, and that they aren't necessarily just "monsters" who did bad things to poor little you. I don't know if this is making any sense to you at all, but it's a process I've gone through in the past several years of my life, and it's very freeing to do this, it makes it much easier to get on with your life.

 

[the state i am in]

Thank you for replying, state.

How does the "storehouse of Fi judgements" help with dealing with others' issues? I always thought that Fe was better at this.

i don't know what i meant, but i think your Fi is just way more worked-out F than Fe. you have a way bigger network of F meaning. Fe sophistication is about knowing how to do something, how a gesture will be interpreted, what it will mean. Fe is about interpretation and action. Fi is better at experiencing what it would be like to be something else, it has more judgments to relate. the overall relating is just a way bigger creature. it has everything from the past, whereas Fe discards the past rather quickly.

i'm good at seeing connections between things, having ideas worked out very detailed, and then allowing those associations to show me relationships. after which, if i imagine myself as an externality, i can kind of summon up a voice to relate to the ideas based on a situational dramatistic context. but i don't keep the context internally, instead i forget it immediately but still have residue and traces from it that are invisible and point me in certain directions.

but 4s have to reconcile what it means to be an individual. to be different/unique/the same. they have the identity crisis, so they've practiced dealing with problems of identity and self-integration. wrapping everything up in a coherent way, whether they are an infj, an infp, an intj, or an intp (or an entp).

each type has expertise, if it learns anything at all from its troubles.

 

[Valiant]

How can an Enneagram Four go from unhealthy to healthy? What exactly must a Four do?

From self-pitying, envious, and lost in fantasy, to truly helpful, intuitive and creative, how can a Four begin this path and stay with it? I've been trying to figure out where to begin.


Sincerely,
An Unhealthy 4w3 Seeking Answers

Seriously. There is no spoon.
Decide what and who you want to become, and start the process of getting there.
It's not as much "fake it until you make it" as thinking before you act.
Always think before you act. Start doing good things, and watch the appreciative smiles on peoples faces.
All people have bad impulses, good people are those who think a little and decide not to be hurtful.

You are what you do. It's just that simple.

 

[speculative]

How can an Enneagram Four go from unhealthy to healthy? What exactly must a Four do?

The Four's direction of integration is toward One. You might read the description of a healthy type One to help you envision your destination; however, much has been written in detail on how to arrive there. If you sign up for the Enneagram Institute's Enneathought of the Day, they'll email you a small chunk of 4-based goodness to work on for that day. I find it helpful to focus on a small chunk instead of trying to hold several chapters of type, health level, and direction of integration descriptions in my mind while trying to conceptualize the world in relation to myself.

Also, do not overlook the spiritual aspect of the Enneagram, something that gives it a leg-up on the MBTI imho. For example:

The Stages of the Work

If we were to really observe ourselves,
we would become aware of our habits.

If we were to become aware of our habits,
we would let go and relax.

If we were to let go and relax,
we would be aware of sensations.

If we were to be aware of sensations,
we would receive impressions.

If we were to receive impressions,
we would awaken to the moment.

If we were to awaken to the moment,
we would experience reality.

If we were to experience reality,
we would see that we are not our personality.

If we were to see that we are not our personality,
we would remember ourselves.

If we were to remember ourselves,
we would let go of our fear and attachments.

If we were to let go of our fear and attachments,
we would be touched by God.

If we were touched by God,
we would seek union with God.

If we were to seek union with God,
we would will what God wills.

If we were to will what God wills,
we would be transformed.

If we were transformed,
the world would be transformed.

If the world were transformed,
all would return to God.

–from The Wisdom of the Enneagram
Don Richard Riso & Russ Hudson

However, I think the most important thing to remember about the Enneagram is that it couldn't be more different from MBTI. Just because both systems refer to "types," doesn't mean they are similar.

MBTI: static
Enneagram: motion

MBTI: all types are "healthy"
Enneagram: levels of health within each type

MBTI: understanding without change mandate
Enneagram: change mandate with goal of moving toward health and eventually beyond personality

MBTI: describes what people do
Enneagram: describes why people do

MBTI: science-based
Enneagram: tradition and spirituality based
(and both are observation-based)

For me, nearly all my personal growth (related to such systems, at least) has come from Enneagram and not MBTI.

I have found the Riso & Hudson materials particularly helpful. Check out:
Personal Growth and Spiritual Growth Through the Enneagram
and
Personal Growth for Enneagram Type Fours

 

[TheEmeraldCanopy]

Thank you for all of your help so far. I can't seem to shake the envy in me lately, and I know it's so pointless to feel this way. It only feeds the fire.

 

[TheEmeraldCanopy]

Decide what and who you want to become, and start the process of getting there.

Neo!

I suppose that is where my problem lies; I have no idea what I want. I feel completely directionless, and I don't feel as though things will change. I'm uncomfortable being without a heading, but I can't confidently seem to point myself any which way.

 

[TheEmeraldCanopy]

The Four's direction of integration is toward One. You might read the description of a healthy type One to help you envision your destination

Thank you! I am looking into it right now.

 

[BlackCat]

Thank you for all of your help so far. I can't seem to shake the envy in me lately, and I know it's so pointless to feel this way. It only feeds the fire.

It's kind of a terrible loop, isn't it? If a 4 sees their feelings as being useless and just hurting them they try to understand them more. Which leads them to seeing even more uselessness. Which makes them depressed.

I don't really know what to tell you... maybe get to the root of why you feel the way that you do? That always helps to face the true reason you feel the way that you do. One thing to consider is, one! (bad pun) The four's point of integration is one. So perhaps you should determine what really matters. Is the subject of your envy really worthy of being envied? Does it matter that you envy them? Why do you envy them, what do you want that they have? If you can get it, get it. If you can't, get over it.

Point being, maybe it would help if you got a feel for healthy 1's to get yourself back on track. Consider what a 1 might do? I find that considering those points but from a 3 perspective help me when I'm stressed out.

Any advice I give you would be too 9ish to help. Like, go hang out with some friends, do something at home you like doing, have some sensory pleasures to forget about your problems.

Man I sound like such an 8 up there... lol.

 

[Amargith]

As a fellow 4:

Take some time to yourself. Forget your obligations to society and the expectations they have. That includes family and friends. Tell them that you'll be busy a while. Take the time to self-reflect. They'll understand.

Then: Read. Think. Read. Think.
Roughly translated: take personality tests, read up on enneagram 4, read up on INFPs, read this forum for that matter, to see which types interact how with everyone.

Next..process. Let all that info go through your mind, make patterns, compare it to what goes on in your real life, and see the big picture. Think about what intrigues you, what matters to you.

Lastly: Judge. Bounce all of that off of your Fi. You know how when you think of something and you close your eyes, you can *feel* by the warm glow near your heart (yes, I'm aware of the mushy factor but it does really work like this), if it *feels* right? Don't *ever* question that feeling. That, right there, is who you are. If you get thoughts about 'what about this, and how will people think about that!', do NOT question the rightness of your judgement. What you *can* do, is refine the question you asked your Fi. Think about things, mull it over, and rephrase. Finetune. Find out what *exactly* in that original phrasing your Fi was responding to. And what was causing the conflict with your mind. Sometimes it'll be your fears, or the social ettiquette you were taught that gives that backchatter from your brain. Other times, it's because you haven't refined the value enough and it's entertwined with another value. Seperate the two.

For example: I have the value that I like seeing people happy..so I try to please them. However, I also have the value that I want to be my unique person and only do what feels right to me. They clash often. Take each situation apart and see which one is actually valid in that particular situation and which one ranks higher. Don't let them get in each others way. They both have merit.

Another good thing to do is reminisce about the things you react strongly to. Figure out *why* that is. Usually there's either a strong value there that you aren't conscious of, or, you've been hurt/scared/traumatized by a previous event. If the former, find a way to tweak it so you can respond properly to that value, if the latter, mull it over and analyze the situation, so you know how to respond without overreacting to it the next time.

After all of this, you'll probably have a *ton* more questions. So press repeat. Read once more, to gain answers, to process and to figure out who *you* are and what is important to *you*

One more thing: other people are interesting to spark your imagination, to learn from, to enrich your own pov. But don't EVER let another person tell you who you are. Part of being a 4 is carving out your own unique path. And even more: you should do so. You're entitled to. No, it's not selfish. It can appear selfish if poorly executed, is all. Refine your methods..don't suppress who you are though

Good luck!

Edit:

Specifically geared towards dealing with Envy:

I personally hold dear to see people happy. I use that value to disable envy. Or rather, turn it less poisonous. The second I feel envious about something, I disable it, coz I hate feeling that way. And I do so, by reminding myself to look at those people instead of myself. It's great to see them that happy with what they have, that they were so fortunate to have [Insert thing I'm envious of] in their lives. And I use their example to find inspiration for myself on how to obtain it and finetune it so it's what *I* need. Often, getting what they have is not perfect for me. I need the me-version. And they spark ideas on how to get there

As said before, if you feel strongly about certain things, be curious about yourself. Wonder *why* that is. Why is it that makes you feel so strongly. And see if perhaps you can finetune the feeling, the reason, and the reaction. It'll help you adapt your responses to become the person you wanna be. Ask yourself, if you saw this response in someone else to that particular situation, if you could understand it and find it appropriate. It'll help you gauge what you would ideally like to be like. Don't beat yourself up if you aren't able to adjust it immediately, keep going over it, finetuning it, you'll get there eventually

 

[TheEmeraldCanopy]

It's kind of a terrible loop, isn't it? If a 4 sees their feelings as being useless and just hurting them they try to understand them more. Which leads them to seeing even more uselessness. Which makes them depressed.

I don't really know what to tell you... maybe get to the root of why you feel the way that you do? That always helps to face the true reason you feel the way that you do. One thing to consider is, one! (bad pun) The four's point of integration is one. So perhaps you should determine what really matters. Is the subject of your envy really worthy of being envied? Does it matter that you envy them? Why do you envy them, what do you want that they have? If you can get it, get it. If you can't, get over it.

Point being, maybe it would help if you got a feel for healthy 1's to get yourself back on track. Consider what a 1 might do? I find that considering those points but from a 3 perspective help me when I'm stressed out.

Any advice I give you would be too 9ish to help. Like, go hang out with some friends, do something at home you like doing, have some sensory pleasures to forget about your problems.

Man I sound like such an 8 up there... lol.

lolz BLACKCAT HAS BECOME AN 8!!! XD

Thank you so much for reading and offering your thoughts, Blackcat! Very helpful. I have a friend who is a One, and I can definitely see when the Oneness starts to appear within myself. While it can be very difficult to jump start myself into a routine, it feels so much better when I am staying organized and getting things done, being productive.

So... does the One integrate towards Seven? *runs off to read more about Healthy Ones*

 

[TheEmeraldCanopy]

Thank you for the great reply, Satine! This is so helpful.

For example: I have the value that I like seeing people happy..so I try to please them. However, I also have the value that I want to be my unique person and only do what feels right to me. They clash often. Take each situation apart and see which one is actually valid in that particular situation and which one ranks higher. Don't let them get in each others way. They both have merit.

I know you already provided an example, but what kind of things make you choose in favor of the unique you versus your friends or vice versa? What makes your decisions valid to you? Is it another value that decides over these two values?

Another good thing to do is reminisce about the things you react strongly to. Figure out *why* that is. Usually there's either a strong value there that you aren't conscious of, or, you've been hurt/scared/traumatized by a previous event. If the former, find a way to tweak it so you can respond properly to that value, if the latter, mull it over and analyze the situation, so you know how to respond without overreacting to it the next time.

After all of this, you'll probably have a *ton* more questions. So press repeat. Read once more, to gain answers, to process and to figure out who *you* are and what is important to *you*

One more thing: other people are interesting to spark your imagination, to learn from, to enrich your own pov. But don't EVER let another person tell you who you are. Part of being a 4 is carving out your own unique path. And even more: you should do so. You're entitled to. No, it's not selfish. It can appear selfish if poorly executed, is all. Refine your methods..don't suppress who you are though

Good luck!

So do you mean that I should never let someone else choose who I will be, or what I want to do?

I think you make a lot of good points. Sometimes I start to question or resent the things that I like, or agree with, if someone around me whose opinions I closely value does not also like those things. Usually it is simpler things like styles of clothing or movie taste and not on serious topics. Not staying true to those things that I like can make me feel incredibly fake or empty (as though I'm not truly letting my self expression reach its full potential), but if someone doesn't like something I choose, I may suddenly turn a lot of my attention over to their personal taste and reject a lot of my own in the moment, only to suffer buyer's remorse or feel fake later for not supporting my opinion more strongly.

I may later look back upon the object or moment in question (whatever it is) with fostered resentment and have to force myself to like it if it's something I purchased. I don't know if it's more a mechanism to avoid conflict at the time, or if I feel as though maybe my taste is silly when someone else evaluates it.

I guess I need to realize I have both a need for praise and a need for individuality, and that I need to respect both parts if I want to obtain any kind of harmony and satisfaction within my own decisions. I guess I need to somehow learn to accept that not everyone is going to like me or the things that I like, and that I can still find people who will share and respect my tastes.

Specifically geared towards dealing with Envy:

I personally hold dear to see people happy. I use that value to disable envy. Or rather, turn it less poisonous. The second I feel envious about something, I disable it, coz I hate feeling that way. And I do so, by reminding myself to look at those people instead of myself. It's great to see them that happy with what they have, that they were so fortunate to have [Insert thing I'm envious of] in their lives. And I use their example to find inspiration for myself on how to obtain it and finetune it so it's what *I* need. Often, getting what they have is not perfect for me. I need the me-version. And they spark ideas on how to get there

This is really helpful advice, Satine. Thank you so much for providing such in depth answers. You are so right; the moments where I have started to feel truly happy for others, life becomes so much more beautiful and inspiring and worlds less lonely.

I think someone else mentioned earlier in this thread as well (I apologize if it was perhaps you, and I'm not giving you proper credit, my brain is foggy at the moment) that sometimes those things you are jealous of really wouldn't be able to work out for you or your circumstances anyways. That even if you had the thing you feel is missing in your life, you would still find something else to envy. BlackCat also mentioned if the thing you envy is obtainable, to try and achieve it in your own life.

As said before, if you feel strongly about certain things, be curious about yourself. Wonder *why* that is. Why is it that makes you feel so strongly. And see if perhaps you can finetune the feeling, the reason, and the reaction. It'll help you adapt your responses to become the person you wanna be. Ask yourself, if you saw this response in someone else to that particular situation, if you could understand it and find it appropriate. It'll help you gauge what you would ideally like to be like. Don't beat yourself up if you aren't able to adjust it immediately, keep going over it, finetuning it, you'll get there eventually

Sometimes it is a huge hurdle to push myself to this point; to actively yell "STOP IT!" when I know how easy it is to just let the cycle stay on repeat.

If I let my envious or emotional thoughts fester for too long without evaluation, they easily just worsen dramatically and feed off of each other; I'll end up going to bed incredibly resentful, hopeless, jealous, angry and sad.

If I can, amidst this emotional storm, just be alone, be somewhere that I can talk out loud to myself, I can usually realign my thinking and take a lot of the emotional sting out of many of my problems, which is so helpful in getting over them. Just dissecting why I feel the way I do helps to put things into perspective for me, and this is INCREDIBLY helpful!

Anyways, thank you again so, so much for the lengthy and well thought out reply, Satine!!! It was so useful and helpful to hear the perspective of a fellow Four. I really appreciate it.

 

[four]

Mindfulness, meditation, breathing. This has saved me. In general, practice. Practice being more grounded, more aware of surroundings. Becoming aware of mind/emotion habits, label them every time you can, "there's that good old mind habit again". It's strange to say, but I've had to learn not to "trust" my emotions. Emotions are an important source of information but so is bodily information and logic/head information. There's gotta be balance!