[ISTP] Unhealthy ISTP

[Domino]

Apt description of an ENTP, btw, Phoenity. Ne does like to think out loud and make you privy to it's travel. My ENFP sister does it too to a certain extent - the stream of consciousness thinking-aloud - but my ENTPs are way more prone to it, like it's a necessary part of their thought process.

I'm aware of the present as I interact with it, it being my immediate environment, everything I can sense.

Hence why things taste purple to you sometimes? If all my senses were engaged at once, it's kind of like this transcendent thing for me. It happened with frequency when I was out horseback riding. My horse was freakishly fast, and you had to hold on, and to hold meant paying attention, even when you were flying down the highway. I was aware of his moods, his movements, even his delightful horsey smell. Those were the odd moments when I was more present than I usually am (except drag racing, which was the same feeling for me.)

Recently I've discovered I can feel more present by actually not doing anything at all, just existing in the moment, where I'm only paying attention to the senses coming in, and not thinking.

Doing requires sensing + thinking, and sometimes intuition. Being requires only sensing. Being = tranquility.

How do you do that? I know it takes a lot of practice and I'd gotten some of the mental asanas down, but kicking my brain into a positive neutral is very difficult. How does Phoenity get there from here?

There are times when I get in my head, I let go of my grip on the present moment, and I'm thinking of the past and future, exploring my weak imagination. I'm no longer thinking about senses from my immediate environment, but rather events from the past about things I've learned and experienced, or intuitions into the future of how an idea might work out or visions of a situation occurring at a time that has yet to come. These visions are never as real as the moments I sense. They occur to me as very vague general ideas, lacking a lot of the detail that I sense from the present. I could never paint a picture from my head with as much detail as I could paint if were actually looking at what I was painting.

Very interesting. What I see in my head (as I tend to live there a lot, for better or worse) is more real to me than what's in front of me. My brain seems to think that all solid objects aren't what they seem and are just waiting on a sort of transmogrification to occur. I don't know why I think such a thing, but I always have, which led to all manner of confusion and disillusionment when I was a child. (And it might explain my total 1980s childish love for Transformers! hahah!)

On break, I used to sit around with my box of cereal making up stories about the machines in the garage. I do that with everything. Give it a name, make note of the personality, etc. Again, not sure why I do that.

Since my thinking into the past or future always appears so vague and blurred, I tend to want to stay in the present. It's like the present is a more natural, comfortable place for me to be, my grounding anchor, so I can rely on being there and trust that it is exactly what I sense it to be, instead of traveling through time in my mind not being sure what things are.

I can understand how off-putting it would feel. I'm never sure of what my Ni is trying to do to me, but since I have no control over it and never have had control over it, there's a sort of tacit understanding between us. When it gets on a tear, it's hard to dissuade it, like a time machine having a seizure.

So, I'm very curious to hear from the other side. How do you go about traveling through time in your mind, the sloshing that you described?

Well, it's complicated - my Ne using sister could probably describe it better because her intuition moves in an orderly fashion whereas mine makes spider webs. My Ni decides there's something it wants to do, and it just takes me with it, like I'm a tiny purse-sized chihuahua that can't protest. lol

I never feel like people are dead. They aren't because of the sloshing. And since I have a long memory, I feel the loss of life as if it happened that moment. My ESTJ mother tells me I've always been that way. The past and unrealized future are always intruding. It's like reading a book from the beginning, then suddenly the end, then suddenly the middle and then the end again, and then the beginning.

To me recharging is listening to other people talk while doing nothing. Its relaxing. One time that I can think of is the other weekend laying in a pool listening to my wife and my cousins talk. Not visualy focusing on anything, just laying on something floating listening to people talk. Not being expected to say or do anything, just listening.

That sounds nice. Once, when I was really sick, my sister (who was still welding at the time) took a pillow and a blanket and put them on the floor of her foreman's office. I slept in there for hours. The door was closed, and outside I could see/hear rain falling on the roof. Through the walls, I could hear people talking in their offices. Signs of life going on. I could even hear MY foreman when he came in to his office - his chair had this telltale squeak when he leaned back. The whole thing was very soothing to my frayed nerves.

I enjoy challenges and interacting with my environment, otherwise I would get bored. My ESTP brother and I used to cause quite a bit of trouble when we were younger simply because we were bored.

Like what?

I enjoy doing, but it's the non-doing that allows me to recharge from doing. I have to have both in order to feel a sense of balance.

Naturally.

And when I want to clear my head, I get up and walk. A reverse, perhaps.

An example would be the mountain view in my avatar that I climb up to regularly. I enjoy the challenge of pushing myself to ascend to the top as fast as possible, trying to do it faster than I did the time before. Once I get to the top and my challenge is over, doing is no longer the objective. So I spend an hour or however long I please just being up there and my focus is only on enjoying my senses. Doing comes again when I run down the backside.

Might as well enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Which peak is this?

 

[jixmixfix]

That's exactly what I'm talking about! Just being.

There are no requirements for being. It just involves sensing what is going on in the immediate present moment, and not thinking or doing anything else. If other people happen to be in your environment, then that's what it is. Isn't it a great feeling that you can be with people yet not be expected to say or do something?


That example reminds me of my relationship with an ENTP best friend. He loves to talk to whomever will listen. That's his preferred form of interaction, sharing and expressing his endless stream of thoughts and ideas.

So we hang out with a few others and he talks for hours and I don't do anything but listen for the most part.


However, my most intense recharging comes from being in environments where there is very little going on.

I have to agree I just end up standing around or listening at times, other times I can be extremely outgoing. I understand what you mean by just be around people without talking, I too am confortable with that. Sometimes people think i'm awakawrd, other times i'll be listening in a conversation withou even knowing the person and people will recongnize and awknowledge my presence. In a sense it's the way we percieve reality, the reservation of energy is important for ISTPS.

 

[Poki]

That's exactly what I'm talking about! Just being.

There are no requirements for being. It just involves sensing what is going on in the immediate present moment, and not thinking or doing anything else. If other people happen to be in your environment, then that's what it is. Isn't it a great feeling that you can be with people yet not be expected to say or do something?


That example reminds me of my relationship with an ENTP best friend. He loves to talk to whomever will listen. That's his preferred form of interaction, sharing and expressing his endless stream of thoughts and ideas.

So we hang out with a few others and he talks for hours and I don't do anything but listen for the most part.


However, my most intense recharging comes from being in environments where there is very little going on.

My most intense recharge is by listening and just shutting off my eyes. I noticed talking to you that I like to talk about how I am different. I get along very well with ENFPs. My massage therapist is an ENFP i think and I like to just relax and listen to her talk in the same fashion as you and the ENTP.

 

[jixmixfix]

My most intense recharge is by listening and just shutting off my eyes. I noticed talking to you that I like to talk about how I am different. I get along very well with ENFPs. My massage therapist is an ENFP i think and I like to just relax and listen to her talk in the same fashion as you and the ENTP.

ENFPs than ENTPs I notice are more soothing because they don't always talk about logical analysis, rather experiences and feelings. It gives me a break from all that Ti that can get over cumbered in my head.

 

[phoenity]

Apt description of an ENTP, btw, Phoenity. Ne does like to think out loud and make you privy to it's travel. My ENFP sister does it too to a certain extent - the stream of consciousness thinking-aloud - but my ENTPs are way more prone to it, like it's a necessary part of their thought process.




Hence why things taste purple to you sometimes? If all my senses were engaged at once, it's kind of like this transcendent thing for me. It happened with frequency when I was out horseback riding. My horse was freakishly fast, and you had to hold on, and to hold meant paying attention, even when you were flying down the highway. I was aware of his moods, his movements, even his delightful horsey smell. Those were the odd moments when I was more present than I usually am (except drag racing, which was the same feeling for me.)

I've always wanted to ride a horse. There's something beautiful about synchronizing your body with the movements of such a graceful beast so that you both move as one.

How do you do that? I know it takes a lot of practice and I'd gotten some of the mental asanas down, but kicking my brain into a positive neutral is very difficult. How does Phoenity get there from here?

I'm not exactly sure where you are, so I don't know how to tell you the way from there to here.

Where are you? And what are you trying to do? Or what is it that you're trying not to do?

Ultimately, I think it's just something natural that I've always done, yet only recently arrived at an understanding of what it is to be able to describe it to someone else.

Very interesting. What I see in my head (as I tend to live there a lot, for better or worse) is more real to me than what's in front of me. My brain seems to think that all solid objects aren't what they seem and are just waiting on a sort of transmogrification to occur. I don't know why I think such a thing, but I always have, which led to all manner of confusion and disillusionment when I was a child. (And it might explain my total 1980s childish love for Transformers! hahah!)

On break, I used to sit around with my box of cereal making up stories about the machines in the garage. I do that with everything. Give it a name, make note of the personality, etc. Again, not sure why I do that.

That's very interesting, because I can clearly understand that thought process. It's not first nature to me, but it's like I can see it.

All things I sense are exactly what they appear to be. Yet, when I think about those things deeper than surface level, they are much more than they seem. All things are made up of other smaller things.

Yet I guess the reason I don't look at the table in front of me and see the tree that it used to be is because the tree no longer is. At this moment, it is simply a table that is being used for whatever is placed on top of it. At some point in the future, when no one no longer has a use for it as a table, I suppose it could be used as firewood. But why would I look at the wooden table now and see it as firewood, unless I'm currently in need of firewood? It's a perfectly good table as it is, right now.

Wow, thinking like that all the time would have me going in circles forever.

I can understand how off-putting it would feel. I'm never sure of what my Ni is trying to do to me, but since I have no control over it and never have had control over it, there's a sort of tacit understanding between us. When it gets on a tear, it's hard to dissuade it, like a time machine having a seizure.

I'm trying to picture a time machine having a seizure, but I can't even begin to picture the time machine.

I think I'd like my time machine to look like Willy Wonka's Great Glass Elevator.

Have you ever just tried asking your mind? Ni, what is the point here?

Well, it's complicated - my Ne using sister could probably describe it better because her intuition moves in an orderly fashion whereas mine makes spider webs. My Ni decides there's something it wants to do, and it just takes me with it, like I'm a tiny purse-sized chihuahua that can't protest. lol

I never feel like people are dead. They aren't because of the sloshing. And since I have a long memory, I feel the loss of life as if it happened that moment. My ESTJ mother tells me I've always been that way. The past and unrealized future are always intruding. It's like reading a book from the beginning, then suddenly the end, then suddenly the middle and then the end again, and then the beginning.

I guess the difference being that the book has already been written, so you can read it from end to beginning if you wanted to, but that wouldn't change what was already written, only the sequence in which you observed it.

Whereas your life, everything up to this moment has already been written, but all the pages after these words are simply blank pages full of possibilities and opportunities waiting to be written when those moments arrive.

Your comment about people passing reminded me of a song:

Those who are dead are not dead
They're just living in my head
And since I fell for that spell
I am living there as well
Oh..

That sounds nice. Once, when I was really sick, my sister (who was still welding at the time) took a pillow and a blanket and put them on the floor of her foreman's office. I slept in there for hours. The door was closed, and outside I could see/hear rain falling on the roof. Through the walls, I could hear people talking in their offices. Signs of life going on. I could even hear MY foreman when he came in to his office - his chair had this telltale squeak when he leaned back. The whole thing was very soothing to my frayed nerves.

Interesting how you recall that memory with so many sensory details.

Like what?

The opposite of creation.

Naturally.

And when I want to clear my head, I get up and walk. A reverse, perhaps.

What I meant by non-doing doesn't necessarily imply inactivity. Non-doing is that because there is no objective. Simply existing.

So I often go out and walk without any predetermined destination. I'm not doing. I'm just walking, and observing all the life that is going on around me. That's especially nice to do in the evenings when the sky is multi-colored as the sun sets.

Might as well enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Which peak is this?

It's a secret

 

[Domino]

I've always wanted to ride a horse. There's something beautiful about synchronizing your body with the movements of such a graceful beast so that you both move as one.

I highly recommend it, especially to people who are afraid of them. Horses are like people - they can be nice and they can be bad-tempered jerks. I've met both. Fortunately, my horse was a good guy, very laid back. I used to like to climb under the railings and run around with the horses and get them stirred up. They love to play tag! I'd run up to Lady (our Thoroughbred/Arabian mare, a very cunning little animal) and poke at her and run back and forth, and she'd start shaking her head and dancing around, and I'd chase her, and then she'd chase me. She'd kick her feet out and hop like a bunny, and then the other horses would join in until everyone was running around chasing each other like little kids on a playground.

Having horses around really grounded me and helped me stay sane in very dark times. My dad knew little about them and wasn't sure of them, but my horse fixed that. Dad got very attached to him.

(Never trust a Shetland pony though. lol )

I'm not exactly sure where you are, so I don't know how to tell you the way from there to here.

Where are you? And what are you trying to do? Or what is it that you're trying not to do?

Ultimately, I think it's just something natural that I've always done, yet only recently arrived at an understanding of what it is to be able to describe it to someone else.

That's the problem, isn't it? Trying to describe that sort of thing. I've been able to achieve a great deal of mental control over my body - I used it a lot when I was blacking out from pain. Being able to connect and calm my body was important, but the situation was so intense that I would get exhausted.

All things I sense are exactly what they appear to be. Yet, when I think about those things deeper than surface level, they are much more than they seem. All things are made up of other smaller things.

Like fractals

Yet I guess the reason I don't look at the table in front of me and see the tree that it used to be is because the tree no longer is. At this moment, it is simply a table that is being used for whatever is placed on top of it. At some point in the future, when no one no longer has a use for it as a table, I suppose it could be used as firewood. But why would I look at the wooden table now and see it as firewood, unless I'm currently in need of firewood? It's a perfectly good table as it is, right now.

Is it weird to confess that I was sad for the table just now? The tree inside the table I mean.

Wow, thinking like that all the time would have me going in circles forever.

I have to actively combat it myself.

I'm trying to picture a time machine having a seizure, but I can't even begin to picture the time machine.

I think I'd like my time machine to look like Willy Wonka's Great Glass Elevator.

The glass would be optimal for seeing out all sides! (I used to have that book...)

Have you ever just tried asking your mind? Ni, what is the point here?

I never even considered doing that. Good suggestion.

I guess the difference being that the book has already been written, so you can read it from end to beginning if you wanted to, but that wouldn't change what was already written, only the sequence in which you observed it.

Whereas your life, everything up to this moment has already been written, but all the pages after these words are simply blank pages full of possibilities and opportunities waiting to be written when those moments arrive.

I wish I was more linear. I would like to see something go from A to B to C, instead of automatically doing an A to X to F to B.

Your comment about people passing reminded me of a song:

Those who are dead are not dead
They're just living in my head
And since I fell for that spell
I am living there as well
Oh..

Like! What is it?


"Don't stand beside my grave and weep...
I am not there. I do not sleep...
Don't stand beside my grave and cry...
I am not there, I did not die..."

A strange sort of contradiction in my nature. I feel the loss, and yet am not divested of the departed. When I was living in Ireland, it's no cliche that the dead are not gone. They hang in the air. The South is that way too. She doesn't know how to let go, and neither do I.

Interesting how you recall that memory with so many sensory details.

In the moment, I'm almost insensible, so I look back over my shoulder at it and absorb every second like a review tape playing.

The opposite of creation.

Did this involve fire and a homemade potato cannon?

It's a secret

I'll give you one whole dollar!

 

[phoenity]

I highly recommend it, especially to people who are afraid of them. Horses are like people - they can be nice and they can be bad-tempered jerks. I've met both. Fortunately, my horse was a good guy, very laid back. I used to like to climb under the railings and run around with the horses and get them stirred up. They love to play tag! I'd run up to Lady (our Thoroughbred/Arabian mare, a very cunning little animal) and poke at her and run back and forth, and she'd start shaking her head and dancing around, and I'd chase her, and then she'd chase me. She'd kick her feet out and hop like a bunny, and then the other horses would join in until everyone was running around chasing each other like little kids on a playground.

Having horses around really grounded me and helped me stay sane in very dark times. My dad knew little about them and wasn't sure of them, but my horse fixed that. Dad got very attached to him.

(Never trust a Shetland pony though. lol )

I love horses and I'm certainly not afraid to ride one. I've just never had the opportunity, so I guess I need to make that opportunity.

It's almost crazy to say that horses have a human-like personality, but I've always felt that way about all different types of animals. The more domesticated an animal is, the more developed it's personality seems to be. Or perhaps they all have a developed individual personality, we just experience more of that personality since a domesticated animal isn't afraid to interact with us.

Sounds like fun times playing with the horses. Experiences like that make you realize we aren't the only conscious life form, so yes it is very grounding and real.

That's the problem, isn't it? Trying to describe that sort of thing. I've been able to achieve a great deal of mental control over my body - I used it a lot when I was blacking out from pain. Being able to connect and calm my body was important, but the situation was so intense that I would get exhausted.

From being very active the past several years, and practicing yoga recently, I've noticed I've developed better awareness of my body by being aware of my breath. Whenever I feel like I start to lose the connection and get too far into my head, I return my attention to my breath. It's like it brings me back. Whenever I am stressed, anxious, in pain, nauseous, etc, I use my mind to follow my breathing, rather than just allowing it to be automatic and be in the background, and it's amazing how it makes me instantly feel better.

The breath will occur automatically whether you think about it or not. But nothing makes me feel more alive in a moment than to know and feel I'm breathing.

Like fractals

Geometry of life is a wondrous thing.

Is it weird to confess that I was sad for the table just now? The tree inside the table I mean.

Does the table have conscious feelings of its own?

I have to actively combat it myself.

I have to actively, consciously think about it. Opposite of you, it doesn't happen on it's own for the most part. And it seems to happen thinking about things in past tense.

The glass would be optimal for seeing out all sides! (I used to have that book...)

That was my original thought. But then if we're time traveling, aren't we going too fast to see anything?

I never even considered doing that. Good suggestion.

Do you control your mind or does your mind control you? I'm trying to figure that out myself.

I wish I was more linear. I would like to see something go from A to B to C, instead of automatically doing an A to X to F to B.

Is that like watching a movie and having intuition into how it will end?

Some movies are just too easy, but the really good ones leave me guessing till the very last moment.

Like! What is it?

Coldplay

"Don't stand beside my grave and weep...
I am not there. I do not sleep...
Don't stand beside my grave and cry...
I am not there, I did not die..."

A strange sort of contradiction in my nature. I feel the loss, and yet am not divested of the departed. When I was living in Ireland, it's no cliche that the dead are not gone. They hang in the air. The South is that way too. She doesn't know how to let go, and neither do I.

Loss was incredibly difficult for me to deal with when I was younger and my mind was solely physically oriented, to the point where I would repress my feelings because they were so intense I didn't know how to deal with them. So I just turned them off.

In the moment, I'm almost insensible, so I look back over my shoulder at it and absorb every second like a review tape playing.

Interesting, because I work the opposite way. My long term memory is horrible, but my short term memory is my strength. I experience sensations in the moment, and as that moment passes so does my memory of those sensations.

It's funny when my friends are reminiscing old times, they'll be talking about an experience I have no memory of because I don't remember any of the sensations. The only way I will remember is if I can visualize the place, the people there, things we did, and even then the memory is very general lacking detail. I usually have no reference or perception of the amount of time passed since the experience.

Lately I've noticed myself intuiting about things I've sensed after the experience has passed. I believe this helps me store them into memory, as I will recall the sensations, try to make sense of them and understand how exactly it was that I experienced those sensations, so that I can either replicate or change that experience.

Did this involve fire and a homemade potato cannon?

The only fire I play with now are campfires. I like putting empty beer bottles in the hot coals until they glow red. The molten glass makes me want to learn how to work with it to, uh, make things.

I'll give you one whole dollar!

My secrets have no monetary value!

They can only be traded for secrets of equal or greater value.

 

[Domino]

I love horses and I'm certainly not afraid to ride one. I've just never had the opportunity, so I guess I need to make that opportunity.

It's almost crazy to say that horses have a human-like personality, but I've always felt that way about all different types of animals. The more domesticated an animal is, the more developed it's personality seems to be. Or perhaps they all have a developed individual personality, we just experience more of that personality since a domesticated animal isn't afraid to interact with us.

I've noticed that too - animals with high intelligence especially, like parrots and dogs. Our horse Lady, she was one of "those". She was really stroppy and very self-willed, but had a good disposition and an amazing survival instinct. She didn't suffer fools, but enjoyed being patted and babied and brushed. When you rode her, you had to be aware of this duality with her. You never ever gave her full rein. She would have made a superb cowpony in the old west.

One afternoon, Sis and I were out. She was on our horse, dear lazy Bigfoot, and I was on Lady. We were coming up the highway toward home. Everything was shipshape until a large barking hound dog ran out of nowhere coming right for us. Lady *despised* dogs and despised being startled by them even more, so what happened next more or less was going to happen no matter what I did. I was used to riding Bigfoot who was a wide bodied stout Quarter Horse/Morgan. Lady was more compact and shiftier in her movements, so the next thing I know, I'm laying on my back in the middle of the old state road staring up at the sky wondering how the heck I got there, and I can hear my sister (who later told me that Bigfoot was startled by the dog too, but only bunny hopped a little - he wasn't the kind to react really) shouting, "Pink! Pink! Get up! Lady's gone after the dog! Stop her!"

So I peeled myself up off the pavement and saw my mount charging after the dog in someone's yard, and thought "Well, isn't this nice? We get to see a killing too. What a relaxing day." I managed to get to the side of the road (Yay for not being run over by cars!) and Lady came to me automatically to sniff me over. She put her head in my arms - an apology, no doubt. I walked her home (my whole body hurt) and she kept putting her head on my shoulder and rubbing her face on me in this gentle conciliatory gesture, like "Sorry! Don't be mad!" Normally she wasn't that apologetic for ANYTHING. lol

My dad also had a red-tick Australian cattle dog that could read lips. Freaky little animal! She knew what we were talking about. You could explain something to her in plain English and she'd get the gist of it. Very eerie!

From being very active the past several years, and practicing yoga recently, I've noticed I've developed better awareness of my body by being aware of my breath. Whenever I feel like I start to lose the connection and get too far into my head, I return my attention to my breath. It's like it brings me back. Whenever I am stressed, anxious, in pain, nauseous, etc, I use my mind to follow my breathing, rather than just allowing it to be automatic and be in the background, and it's amazing how it makes me instantly feel better.

The breath will occur automatically whether you think about it or not. But nothing makes me feel more alive in a moment than to know and feel I'm breathing.

I've tried that and I think I may be doing something wrong! I listen to my breathing and then start hyperventilating! LOL I'm useless!

Does the table have conscious feelings of its own?

Well, I'd have to say no, but I've also met living trees that felt "good" and "bad", like good energy or bad energy. Some trees want to be tended and looked after and hugged, and some trees feel like they'd hit you over the head with a frying pan if they could. Yeah I know. Weird.

Funny little aside: I was reading about a curator at the Smithsonian who tends the shell collection. I had no idea shells were so interesting. He made mention of some occurrence when the A/C broke and the drawers containing the shells (and sometimes their owners assumed dead) came to life with gooey critters. lol Life is a persistent thing and sometimes I have trouble separating the dead from the living.

I have to actively, consciously think about it. Opposite of you, it doesn't happen on it's own for the most part. And it seems to happen thinking about things in past tense.

You have no idea how fascinating this is for me. I'm peeking into a brain wired backwards from mine. What comes to me unbidden must be summoned by you, and what eludes me heels to your unconscious command.

That was my original thought. But then if we're time traveling, aren't we going too fast to see anything?

This sounds like a question for Neil deGrasse Tyson.

Is that like watching a movie and having intuition into how it will end?

I'm not entirely sure, as instinct is so hard to explain.

It's like meeting someone and knowing exactly where they've been and where they'll wind up before I know the parts in the middle. I annoy my mother to no end when she's watching "Law and Order" and I stroll through at the beginning, say "X did it... " and later X *did* do it. ahahah! Maybe that's my internal ISTP triggering my liar alert.

My intuition is still something I'm trying to understand. Ni is particularly slippery, even to other Ns and to those who use Ni. It's like a rabbit warren of tunnels and once you go underground you're at the mercy of Ni's twisting and turning. Why it takes the left tunnel and not the right is like trying to understand why lightning bugs' butts blink and not their heads.

Some movies are just too easy, but the really good ones leave me guessing till the very last moment.

Hitchcock fan? He can drag out the suspense!

Loss was incredibly difficult for me to deal with when I was younger and my mind was solely physically oriented, to the point where I would repress my feelings because they were so intense I didn't know how to deal with them. So I just turned them off.

It never occurred to me that your feelings - esp if you're very present - could make you feel like you were drowning. I just assumed for the longest time that everyone was equally subjected to their feelings and had to deal with them in a uniform manner, but I was very mistaken. Even between me and my ENFP sister - our feelings move us very differently. Sometimes when an emotion is too powerful or vicious, I go into red alert and shut down all vital systems until the feeling has kicked itself out. I'm designed to handle very intense feelings, but even then, some of them hit like a tidal wave and my only concern is to survive it. Feelings go right through me - and not just my own. Those around me, even strangers. I have to shield myself from it or it can do damage I'm undoing for days or even weeks depending on how bad it was.

For example, my father is interested in war history. So am I. It tells a lot about people. But I have to recoil from the worst of it because it hits me so hard. We'd gotten him a tremendous book by Hampton Sides called "Ghost Soldiers" written about the formation and deployment of Special Forces in WW2 to liberate internment camps. Some of their personal stories are so gutting, I couldn't bear it.

I read about one Ranger who'd gone into a camp and carried a man out who weighed as much as a child and couldn't make it under his own power. This tough Ranger held him and granted him the mercy of dying on the other side of the fence in friendly arms. I couldn't stop crying for days. That poor man. Both of them. I was furious because that prisoner held on and held on through hideous conditions and despair only to die from relief and exhaustion (that stomps and stomps on my anger over death and need for justice), but I was also deeply profoundly moved by the depths of kindness shown by a Ranger that I knew would carry around that horrible moment inside his brain and body for the rest of his life. I want more than anything to be able to wipe such horrors from the minds of those cursed to bear them.

With my long long memory, I tend to relive such terrible moments in vivid Technicolor over and over, regardless of the passage of time. Which is why I have to protect myself from what I'm exposed to. It's a bullet in my brain, and you can't un-pull the trigger. People die their deaths with me, they live their lives with me. I pick up pictures of lost people in antique shops and feel the need to "save" them from oblivion.

I wasn't told for over a year that my horse had died. I was furious, but my father was right when I said I wanted to be with my horse when he died - he told me that it would have destroyed me to go through it with Bigfoot because I loved him so much. I would have internalized that and been shaken by it for the rest of my life. I don't take separations of this sort very well. Something in me is ripped at the seams.

Interesting, because I work the opposite way. My long term memory is horrible, but my short term memory is my strength. I experience sensations in the moment, and as that moment passes so does my memory of those sensations.

It's funny when my friends are reminiscing old times, they'll be talking about an experience I have no memory of because I don't remember any of the sensations. The only way I will remember is if I can visualize the place, the people there, things we did, and even then the memory is very general lacking detail. I usually have no reference or perception of the amount of time passed since the experience.

I believe this is the key to the ISTP's legendary toughness and resilience. Tell me - what makes a BIG lasting impression on you? Something big enough to blow right through your short term and cannon-ball into your long term?

My ISTP bff used to look at me in silent distress when he saw me tangling with the specters that lived in my long term memory. He helped me get calm in the worst parts by talking me through it and grounding me in the present with something that was "safe".

Lately I've noticed myself intuiting about things I've sensed after the experience has passed. I believe this helps me store them into memory, as I will recall the sensations, try to make sense of them and understand how exactly it was that I experienced those sensations, so that I can either replicate or change that experience.

Interesting! What sorts of things has your intuition been rummaging through?

My secrets have no monetary value!

DANG!

They can only be traded for secrets of equal or greater value.

DRAT!

 

[alcea rosea]

No offense, but you just don't come across as an ISTP. Needing to be brought into the world from being in your head so much?! How is that characteristic of an ISTP? You also seem very verbose for an ISTP. Their writing style tends to be more terse and concise.

Remember that ISTP's are primary thinkers, not primary sensors. As well as ENFP's are primary intuitives not primary feelers. The function order is important in this case. I would interpret the function order so that ISTP's are thinkers who do if they decide to do just like ENFP's are intuitives who make decision based on their value system. And ENTP's are intuitives who decide based on their thinking.

up until I turned to my late teens i never really saw the bigger picture, but I look towards primary functions.

Are you able to see the current situation, to use tactical skill, well?
That is something that sometimes confuses me with ISTP's. They don't seem to see the big picture but they still have the current situation very realistically figured out. Like a sixth sence. I first thought that skill is seeing the big picture, but because I myself see the big picture but don't necessarily see the current situation very clearly, I figured that these are 2 separate things.

 

[phoenity]

Remember that ISTP's are primary thinkers, not primary sensors. As well as ENFP's are primary intuitives not primary feelers. The function order is important in this case. I would interpret the function order so that ISTP's are thinkers who do if they decide to do just like ENFP's are intuitives who make decision based on their value system. And ENTP's are intuitives who decide based on their thinking.



Are you able to see the current situation, to use tactical skill, well?
That is something that sometimes confuses me with ISTP's. They don't seem to see the big picture but they still have the current situation very realistically figured out. Like a sixth sence. I first thought that skill is seeing the big picture, but because I myself see the big picture but don't necessarily see the current situation very clearly, I figured that these are 2 separate things.

From spending time with my ENTP friend, I've come to understand the spectrum of intuition, extroversion to introversion, as a zoom lens overlooking a puzzle. Parts of the puzzle are already laid out, these are the ones sensing perceives, but some are still missing. We use the pieces already there to get a good idea of the missing pieces that should or could be around it. Our intuition visualizes whatever we can rationally or irrationally figure should fill in the rest of the situation so that we come to a better understanding of the picture.

So I experience his Ne as the lens zooming out over a certain area - essentially moving out to see the big picture. Ne starts at a point, then zooms out seeing areas that are in some way related to that starting point, but not necessarily directly next, or connected to it. When I listen to my friend talk, it's like Ne makes huge leaps with regards to relation of things. Sometimes I have to stop him to ask how he jumped from there to here, and he can backtrack to tell me the connecting thoughts he skipped over to get to that point.

On the other hand, my Ni seems to go in the opposite direction. I experience it zooming inward, and as I zoom further inward, I naturally see less and less of the overall larger picture, but it allows me to focus on more of all the incredibly fine details of my immediate surroundings, the current situation, because I prefer to see everything I look at in huge amounts of detail. Thus, I can zoom in to a point so fine that I can limit the amount of possibilities of what could possibly fit there to just a couple or few very closely related possibilities.


I enjoy working with my ENTP friend because of how our minds complement each other. His Ne will come up with crazy big picture ideas, and he relies on me to zoom in to the smaller level details of that idea to help him figure out practically how a part of that idea could or could not work.

 

[Poki]

Are you able to see the current situation, to use tactical skill, well?
That is something that sometimes confuses me with ISTP's. They don't seem to see the big picture but they still have the current situation very realistically figured out. Like a sixth sence. I first thought that skill is seeing the big picture, but because I myself see the big picture but don't necessarily see the current situation very clearly, I figured that these are 2 separate things.

I do see the big picture, but its more people related than object related. At work I know which direction certain people are gonna push and what certain people feel comfortable with and I am able to kinda redirect my actions around these people. Instead of hitting them head on and verbally convincing them I may show them or do it in a way that they feel comfortable. Its like a puzzle where you have multiple paths and you find the one with least resistance. I know my weakness is verbally explaining things so I avoid that route and try my hardest to just make everything run smooth. I become a jack of all trades. This is what pushes me into TiNi.

 

[phoenity]

I do see the big picture, but its more people related than object related. At work I know which direction certain people are gonna push and what certain people feel comfortable with and I am able to kinda redirect my actions around these people. Instead of hitting them head on and verbally convincing them I may show them or do it in a way that they feel comfortable. Its like a puzzle where you have multiple paths and you find the one with least resistance. I know my weakness is verbally explaining things so I avoid that route and try my hardest to just make everything run smooth. I become a jack of all trades. This is what pushes me into TiNi.

I seem to have trouble communicating my understanding verbally as well.

It's like Ti+Ni just knows how something works, it's internalized understanding that revolves more around concepts in my head of how all the parts work together, as opposed to organized, wordy explanation.

So communicating that outwardly, by translating that internalized understanding, which is not stored in concepts of language, into words, then getting those words out and heard by the other person, and having them translate those words back into my understanding is difficult, and seems to me an inefficient and ass-backwards way.

The original idea I was trying to communicate is very easy to lose in translation. But I have a ton of patience, so I work closely with people individually, just like you say Poki, observing and understanding them as individuals, so I can figure out a way to communicate my idea in a way they can understand.

Since my understanding appears to be stored in images and other sensations instead of words, oftentimes it's much more efficient for me to show you in real time. So my preferred method for teaching is to take your hands and guide you through so that we both experience the same thing together at the same time.

 

[Poki]

I seem to have trouble communicating my understanding verbally as well.

It's like Ti+Ni just knows how something works, it's internalized understanding that revolves more around concepts in my head of how all the parts work together, as opposed to organized, wordy explanation.

So communicating that outwardly, by translating that internalized understanding, which is not stored in concepts of language, into words, then getting those words out and heard by the other person, and having them translate those words back into my understanding is difficult, and seems to me an inefficient and ass-backwards way.

The original idea I was trying to communicate is very easy to lose in translation. But I have a ton of patience, so I work closely with people individually, just like you say Poki, observing and understanding them as individuals, so I can figure out a way to communicate my idea in a way they can understand.

Since my understanding appears to be stored in images and other sensations instead of words, oftentimes it's much more efficient for me to show you in real time. So my preferred method for teaching is to take your hands and guide you through so that we both experience the same thing together at the same time.

Um...I dont know if I would like for you to take my hand and guide me through it. A man teaching a woman to shoot pool pops into my mind and I would like to keep it that way

I dont have much patience in that regard, my lack of patience though ends up in me giving up, figuring it out later, and just getting back to life. My lack of patience doesnt lead to frustration(not saying yours does, just that I see others lack of patience lead to frustration easily). I am starting to realize though when I am not able to give up and get back to life and have some fun I do get frustrated. I know where the frustration goes so I cut it off before it happens.

 

[jixmixfix]

Remember that ISTP's are primary thinkers, not primary sensors. As well as ENFP's are primary intuitives not primary feelers. The function order is important in this case. I would interpret the function order so that ISTP's are thinkers who do if they decide to do just like ENFP's are intuitives who make decision based on their value system. And ENTP's are intuitives who decide based on their thinking.



Are you able to see the current situation, to use tactical skill, well?
That is something that sometimes confuses me with ISTP's. They don't seem to see the big picture but they still have the current situation very realistically figured out. Like a sixth sence. I first thought that skill is seeing the big picture, but because I myself see the big picture but don't necessarily see the current situation very clearly, I figured that these are 2 separate things.

Well I'm an ISTP according to scionics, and it claims that ISTPs main function is introverted sensing. Si

 

[jixmixfix]

Well I'm an ISTP according to scionics, and it claims that ISTPs main function is introverted sensing. Si

it's weird I fund I can use tactical skill very well If I'm in the moment. When I figure out where everything is positioned. This is skill can be kind useless imo, organizing an unorganized mess. haha Things should be organized to being with.

 

[jixmixfix]

it's weird I fund I can use tactical skill very well If I'm in the moment. When I figure out where everything is positioned. This is skill can be kind useless imo, organizing an unorganized mess. haha Things should be organized to being with.

find

 

[alcea rosea]

Well I'm an ISTP according to scionics, and it claims that ISTPs main function is introverted sensing. Si

Then, according to MBTI you are then ISTJ becauce they are Si Te in the MBTI theory. ISTP is Ti Se.

OR are the functions described differently in socionics?

 

[Poki]

Si(socionics) is internal sensing element, but the abstract definition of Si(socionics) is External Dynamics of fields, which is strangely how I tend to define Se(MBTI) as noticing the dynamics. I am ISTP in both. Si(socionics) is taking in the external dynamics to me which is kinda what Se(MBTI) supporting Ti(MBTI) does.

edited because I forgot to specify which system on the functions.

 

[alcea rosea]

Si is internal sensing element, but the abstract definition of Si is External Dynamics of fields, which is strangely how I tend to define Se as noticing the dynamics. I am ISTP in both. Si in socionics is taking in the external dynamics to me which is kinda what Se supporting Ti does.

Si is the most least used function for myself that is why I find very hard to understand it. I remember reading that Si concerns about past and what has happened and compares that information to the current. It's a vast knowledge based "database" of past experiences. What do you say of this?

 

[Poki]

Si is the most least used function for myself that is why I find very hard to understand it. I remember reading that Si concerns about past and what has happened and compares that information to the current. It's a vast knowledge based "database" of past experiences. What do you say of this?

Si in MBTI seems to be more about all the detail. I can spot an ISTJ man a mile off. They like to talk about a trip, an event and give detailed experience of what was going on. They will try to almost draw a picture of the event. I was eaves dropping(I like to listen to people just to listen) of 2 men talking and the guy was explaining his boating trip. He talked about the weather, the waves, the size of the boat, the movements, how it made him feel, its like he was trying to relive the event as he explained it.

I dont have a desire to relive an event in my head, I want to physically live the event. This is what it means to be in the moment for me. I dont want to talk about the past and I dont get excited about the future of what could be, I get excited about what we are doing right now, how people feel right now.

For my complete lack of Si in MBTI. Ask me the detail of what happened and I am not always aware, But I can explain the dynamics of how things went down, but I cant always remember the detail to explain why I thought that. I notice alot as it happens, I explore things to get an understanding, but once I have an understanding I forget the detail and cant fully explain why I thought something or why I got the impression I did. Si is stuck in my subconcious somewhere because the details pop up and the event pops up in my head. Something external things will trigger it and then I relive the event along with all the feelings, but I cant conciously bring it up. I have fought with this before, not understanding why a feeling went away and how to relive what happened and bring back the feeling.