Balanced masculine and feminine energies

[entropie]

I wont say me too now

 

[iwakar]

Do you have a source for this information? Just wondering.

Himself and his circle I'd imagine. I suspect he's on to something...

 

[thisGuy]

ENTP's and INFJ's are balanced sexually. However, INFJ's possess a characteristic orientation toward feminine energy while ENTP's possess a characteristic orientation toward masculine energy; each while remaining balanced.

INFJ Female: INFJ females are very feminine, more traditionally feminine than other types. But, they also possess a penetrating masculine intellect. (Tertiary Ti?)

INFJ Male: INFJ males sometimes seem to possess a soft feminine energy in the way they approach people, but in other respects are very strong and masculine.

ENTP Male: ENTP males seem to possess a masculine mode of thought and can seem extra masculine, but are also strangely vulnerable and feminine in some respects.

ENTP Female: ENTP females possess a masculine energy in the way they are direct and assertive, but they share this same vulnerability.

Out of the four types, I think the INFJ male and the ENTP female have the most difficult time in that their primary energy runs counter to the traditional roles of the sexes. The female being the passive receiver and softer, while the male is the more assertive element. Since ENTP women are more assertive, this can be off-putting to some men. Similarly with INFJ men, as they tend to take a more passive role.

Your thoughts?

i have to agree

though i think you need to put INFJ being feminine in some sort of context

you meant when INFJ adopt into the role where the sentiment echoed for every action by a girl is exactly as a man would expect it to be and nothing else...didnt you

entp masculinity covers the brutal apathetic terms that are sometimes used when dealing with life...and then there is that directed aggression that is really nothing but impatience with stupidity (labeling something stupid in itself is a very judging thing and in the modern world, men seem to use this label more than women)

 

[wren]

ENTP's and INFJ's are balanced sexually. However, INFJ's possess a characteristic orientation toward feminine energy while ENTP's possess a characteristic orientation toward masculine energy; each while remaining balanced.

INFJ Female: INFJ females are very feminine, more traditionally feminine than other types. But, they also possess a penetrating masculine intellect. (Tertiary Ti?)

INFJ Male: INFJ males sometimes seem to possess a soft feminine energy in the way they approach people, but in other respects are very strong and masculine.

ENTP Male: ENTP males seem to possess a masculine mode of thought and can seem extra masculine, but are also strangely vulnerable and feminine in some respects.

ENTP Female: ENTP females possess a masculine energy in the way they are direct and assertive, but they share this same vulnerability.

Out of the four types, I think the INFJ male and the ENTP female have the most difficult time in that their primary energy runs counter to the traditional roles of the sexes. The female being the passive receiver and softer, while the male is the more assertive element. Since ENTP women are more assertive, this can be off-putting to some men. Similarly with INFJ men, as they tend to take a more passive role.

Your thoughts?

Hello,
From what I gather my father and brothers are all NF and I always thought they were the most masculine of men. They were shrewd, decisive, intolerant, biased, open, attentive, bigoted, afraid, deferent, loving, vulnerable, insecure, vast, appreciative, knowledgeable, and all the rest of humanity. They never wanted to marry me, which I understand.

 

[pippi]

Naw, I think the generalisations are too much. Not fitting in with society’s norms is one thing but masculine/feminine energy doesn’t really fit from my experience, if anything I’d say Male NFs and female NTs are neutral more than masculine or feminine.

I agree with this. Synarch is projecting what he wants on the types. He wants a very submissive "feminine" NF so he paints all NFs with the same brush. The INFJ women I know aren't any more "feminine" than I am, but that's partly why we gravitated to each other, we have a lot in common beyond MBTI type. I also don't agree that there are "masculine" and "feminine" attributes, that's 1950's sociology mumbo jumbo.

 

[Atomic Fiend]

If by energies you mean how we come off online then I completely agree.

 

[Giggly]

What Synarch really means is this

http://www.berro.com/images1/cave_woman_dragging_caveman.jpg

 

[Athenian200]

I think that what you tagged as applying to ENTPs deals with all EXTX people and what you tagged as applying to INFJ applies to all IXFX people.

Or rather to just T's in general and F's in general.

I agree. That's fairly close to what I was thinking.

 

[Synarch]

I think that what you tagged as applying to ENTPs deals with all EXTX people and what you tagged as applying to INFJ applies to all IXFX people.

Or rather to just T's in general and F's in general.

You may have a point. Thank you.

Do you have a source for this information? Just wondering.

Just another one of my mind children.

Himself and his circle I'd imagine. I suspect he's on to something...

You have eyes to see, is all.

Hello,
From what I gather my father and brothers are all NF and I always thought they were the most masculine of men. They were shrewd, decisive, intolerant, biased, open, attentive, bigoted, afraid, deferent, loving, vulnerable, insecure, vast, appreciative, knowledgeable, and all the rest of humanity. They never wanted to marry me, which I understand.

Why would your brothers and father want to marry you?

I agree with this. Synarch is projecting what he wants on the types. He wants a very submissive "feminine" NF so he paints all NFs with the same brush. The INFJ women I know aren't any more "feminine" than I am, but that's partly why we gravitated to each other, we have a lot in common beyond MBTI type. I also don't agree that there are "masculine" and "feminine" attributes, that's 1950's sociology mumbo jumbo.

No. You are projecting what you want me to project. You are also INTJ, so maybe your vision is occluded.

What Synarch really means is this

http://www.berro.com/images1/cave_woman_dragging_caveman.jpg

That made me wince.

 

[Synarch]

i have to agree

though i think you need to put INFJ being feminine in some sort of context

you meant when INFJ adopt into the role where the sentiment echoed for every action by a girl is exactly as a man would expect it to be and nothing else...didnt you

entp masculinity covers the brutal apathetic terms that are sometimes used when dealing with life...and then there is that directed aggression that is really nothing but impatience with stupidity (labeling something stupid in itself is a very judging thing and in the modern world, men seem to use this label more than women)

Exactly.

 

[Totenkindly]

I think the words "masculine" and "feminine" have been distorted so badly by western culture that it's hard to discuss them at this point without all that social baggage being brought into it.

I understand what the OP is saying with the assessment. People just have a hard time agreeing on what 'masculine/feminine' means from any sort of quantifiable view. The problem is a high degree of variability within males and within females, which makes us wonder from what the two terms are derived.. if there are lots of females who can be "masculine" and lots of males who can be "feminine," then the two terms seem more to be arbitrary ideals and not derived from the gender in question.

In general, at best, I can extrapolate from the biological imperative, where the bell curve of females possess nurturing streaks to some degree more than males do, and males use overt power (i.e., thwarting or overriding others) on the bell curve more than females do, much as two bucks (rather than two does) butt heads in mating season. These patterns are established biologically.

The movie that comes to mind is Disney's "Beauty and the Beast" -- Belle is very INFJ in personality... she comes across as very feminine in appearance and social manner and how she expresses her personhood (and is a nurturer at heart) but she's steel as well, fearless and able to thwart challenges head on as a male would... except she can be physically overpowered. To me this is the blend being discussed here.

(Meanwhile in Beast and Gaston, you see the masculine imperative expressing itself, except Gaston's is untempered by any sensitivity, whereas Beast has a "feminine" side except that... rather than nurturing per se as a female is prone to fall into... he becomes protective and spends in his energy in conflict for the good of others. Note: I don't see Beast as ENTP, he's probably some sort of SP.... interestingly the sort of guy I have seen many INFJ women friends end up involved with. I wonder if there's a particular dynamic in play there that works well.)

 

[Qre:us]

Hello,
From what I gather my father and brothers are all NF and I always thought they were the most masculine of men. [...] They never wanted to marry me, which I understand.

I understand your relatives' sentiment towards you as well.

Very true Syn and San. I had to put "female entp" in my bio because I had so many chicks pm'ing me romantically.

Donita Juan!
I echo other posters' thoughts that it may be a very 'online' effect. I.e., I am quite often confused for a dude (may be my avatars, but, in the beginning, when I had no avatar). It's amusing, and I haven't quite figured out what parts of my postings trigger that assumption. I probably do come off as assertive, and, it irks me that I have to double-triple think about putting a stupid smiley at the end of a sarcastic comment...just in case. So, sometimes I don't. Which doesn't smooth online communication, I'm sure. Meh.

But, the thing is, IRL, I am quite feminine. A lot of people comment that my mannerisms, inflection of speech, etc, are very reminiscent of my mother (who's a very gentle INFP-type). I am told often to repeat what I said because my speech is very soft. And, I get approached but dumbass dudes who I think, gets the vibe that I'm a poor innocent female, i.e., easy pickings. Until....I open my mouth, and you hear the content of it, and then, their friends are hurrying them up, "Dude, let's just go, let's leave..."
My INxJ bf summed it up best, I think, "You act like a girl, but, think like a guy!"*

* which inevitably ended with a debate on what exactly is 'thinking like a guy'

 

[Fluffywolf]

Some people are taking a good joke too seriously.

 

[Totenkindly]

...My INxJ bf summed it up best, I think, "You act like a girl, but, think like a guy!"*

* which inevitably ended with a debate on what exactly is 'thinking like a guy'

Aw geez, here we go. *groan*

 

[Qre:us]

Aw geez, here we go. *groan*

^ Ladies and germs, clear example of girly-girl think.

 

[Totenkindly]

Hey!

Okay, let me take the "prim and proper" organizational maven approach: It might make a good thread, I don't want to mess this one up unless the OP approves / can tie it in.

 

[CrystalViolet]

Hmmm...am interesting thought. I'm guessing that INFP women in line with this train of thought are also considered "traditionally" female.
What comes to mind however are famous figures such as Joan of Arc...and role models I have in my own personal life, who are not so "traditionally" female. One of which persued her scientific career while her husband stayed at home at raised the kids.

I personally don't think I'm truly "feminine" in societies sense of the word, although I do have feminine outlook I would guess.
It's amusing especially as I'm not particularly attached to the whole gender thing mentally (psyichally, is a different story).
I have to say though, I'm attracted strongly, to deeply masculine men, although that wasn't always true.

 

[Synarch]

I understand what the OP is saying with the assessment. People just have a hard time agreeing on what 'masculine/feminine' means from any sort of quantifiable view. The problem is a high degree of variability within males and within females, which makes us wonder from what the two terms are derived.. if there are lots of females who can be "masculine" and lots of males who can be "feminine," then the two terms seem more to be arbitrary ideals and not derived from the gender in question.

Maybe hard to quantify, but not so hard to describe.

The movie that comes to mind is Disney's "Beauty and the Beast" -- Belle is very INFJ in personality... she comes across as very feminine in appearance and social manner and how she expresses her personhood (and is a nurturer at heart) but she's steel as well, fearless and able to thwart challenges head on as a male would... except she can be physically overpowered. To me this is the blend being discussed here.

Yes! You understand completely. This pleases me immensely.

(Meanwhile in Beast and Gaston, you see the masculine imperative expressing itself, except Gaston's is untempered by any sensitivity, whereas Beast has a "feminine" side except that... rather than nurturing per se as a female is prone to fall into... he becomes protective and spends in his energy in conflict for the good of others. Note: I don't see Beast as ENTP, he's probably some sort of SP.... interestingly the sort of guy I have seen many INFJ women friends end up involved with. I wonder if there's a particular dynamic in play there that works well.)

Yes, this is what I am getting at and why I think ENTP male / INFJ female is a good match.

Hey!

Okay, let me take the "prim and proper" organizational maven approach: It might make a good thread, I don't want to mess this one up unless the OP approves / can tie it in.

Go for it. You are very insightful.

 

[Qre:us]

can tie it in.

Did someone call for an ENTP?

Well, as energies are the only tangible manifestations of our interactions with the world, and, thinking is a crux of most interactions (Sarah Palin, aside..we're not dealing with exceptions), AND, it's an energy-driven act: thinking...it means that we can evaluate energy manifested by thinking, and whether our receipients' energies (thought) translate that as stereotypical masculine or feminine.

For example, whenever compassion is manifested in thought, most might assume that to have a feminine bent. While, when blatant agressiveness is manifested in thought (or fist), most might assume that to have a masculine bent.

The only issue is, they're not clearly deposited into two separate boxes, but, rather, lie along the spectrum on which we can freely move, backwards and forwards. Thus, none of us are really tied to a location/spot as much as we are tied to the interpretation of each individual thought/action/manifestation of energy....which, when averaged may put certain individuals closer to the 'masculine' end of the spectrum and others closer to the 'feminine' end of the spectrum.

The eunuch marks the spot.

 

[Qre:us]

I think the words "masculine" and "feminine" have been distorted so badly by western culture that it's hard to discuss them at this point without all that social baggage being brought into it.

It's this backlash in modern western culture towards labelling theory (and all its negative connotations as inverse to individuality and autonomy).

if there are lots of females who can be "masculine" and lots of males who can be "feminine," then the two terms seem more to be arbitrary ideals and not derived from the gender in question.

Question, psycho-socio-culturally speaking, what is most relevant to us in Western socieities? Sex or gender?

These patterns are established biologically.

IA, biologically (physiologically) speaking, sex is relevant, not gender...gender is a default manifestation for certain social animals, like humans.

The movie that comes to mind is Disney's "Beauty and the Beast" -- Belle is very INFJ in personality... she comes across as very feminine in appearance and social manner and how she expresses her personhood (and is a nurturer at heart) but she's steel as well, fearless and able to thwart challenges head on as a male would... except she can be physically overpowered. To me this is the blend being discussed here.

(Meanwhile in Beast and Gaston, you see the masculine imperative expressing itself, except Gaston's is untempered by any sensitivity, whereas Beast has a "feminine" side except that... rather than nurturing per se as a female is prone to fall into... he becomes protective and spends in his energy in conflict for the good of others. Note: I don't see Beast as ENTP, he's probably some sort of SP.... interestingly the sort of guy I have seen many INFJ women friends end up involved with. I wonder if there's a particular dynamic in play there that works well.)

Your Disney reference just reminded me....my friend did a fascinating research looking at the phenomenon of heterosexual mainstream porn geared towards men and porn geared towards women (yes, folks, this does exist but a very small market). She watched a hella lot of hours of porn (I helped )...and one fascinating trend she saw was, as best as I can sum it up: complexity/nuance versus linear, what-you-see-is-what-you-get dichotomony. Former in female-geared porn, latter in male-geared porn. There's a build-up of romance, of seduction, and the visuals were more symbolic (more panned-out shot of the couple in copulation), the men are strong types with a suprising (under-the-blatant-surface) gentleness that's in the female-geared porn. While for male-geared porn, there's some ridiculously short attempt at a story line before you get zoomed-in shots of parts (the personhood cut up into pieces...her boobs, her ass, her...) and the women are looking up at the men to 'fulfill the need'/dependency.

Why porn? Because it taps into one of our primal basic inclinations - sexuality. And, obviously we assume that both markets are answering to their consumers' wants & needs...hence such differences in manifestations. From this we can maybe understand and agree, that there are differences in what feminity desires as opposed to what masculinity desires. It's thus not just a negligible social construct, these terms, masculinity, femininity. I am a woman, this is my ideal sexual fantasy. I am a man, this is my ideal sexual fantasy.