I have an ESTJ mother and what she needed to do was appeal to logic. When I was disruptive at school, which was not that often because I'm a girl and socialization crushed a lot of that out of me, she would make vague statements about how "That's not okay" or "How would you feel if...?" None of that got through. It was like null data. ENTPs are system builders. What I needed was someone to ask me to think about the overall school system and what it needs to run optimally. Then I realized that me being a pain in the ass was unnecessary gunk in the cogs that kept it running. And since I agreed overall with the idea of schooling, though I thought many of their methods unduly pedantic, I got my act together. This is the ENTP version of sympathy. You just can't tell us that we should behave a certain way "just because." We're programmed to question statements like that.
Good luck with your son. We're hella hard to raise, but I hear we turn into mostly-awesome adults.
+1 Word!
It's because, as Jen also said:
Telling me to think of my future would have been futile. Appealing to my emotions would have made me read your face to figure out exactly what I thought you needed to hear. Especially since I couldn't identify a feeling at that age if you paid me. I learned how to fake emotions from watching soap operas - I had no idea that people really felt these things, I thought everybody was acting. Give this kid more mental stimulation. When he is excited learning, he won't act out. He is most likely bored at school and bored (or stressed) at home and doesn't even realize it yet. A general lethargy and apathy. Give him something to care about that is all his. If I had been challenged more, I would have ended up on a different path.
And, I know for me, it was the above plus the school system being lazy to deal with kids like me. I was *energy* brimming for outlet. And, I chose to most amusing/interesting one to me. It's an ENTP thing. Motivation for inquiry.
If you motivate me to become interested, in *whatever*, then, I'll channel the shyte out of it. Even as a kid. But, esp. as a kid, if you (parent, school) drop the ball on presenting those stimulating challenges that piques my interest....then, I couldn't help but 'act out'. I knew full well what I was doing - I was a smart-ass shit trying to defiantly play the system.
And, the system couldn't deal...
There's a lot of insight in the
Child's Play - portrait of an NT child thread- quite a few ENTPs had responded, along with their retrospective views of seeing themselves as a child, and what they learned of it.
Here's one that kind of reflects what your son may very well be going through. I was a bit younger than him when this story occured:
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/641531-post76.html
And another ENTP's similar story of skepticism with inefficient school system for such high-energy personality children (clinical term: ADHD et al
):
I'm highly suspicious of the school's assessment - do you have any examples of this terrible behaviour?
Schools do have a habit of labelling things as "problem behaviour" when in fact it's perfectly normal and healthy - just inconvenient for their purposes. It's easier to foist the blame onto you and the kid, than to accept that they're too inflexible to accommodate different personalities and try to shoe-horn everyone into a one-size-fits-nobody system.
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Dealing with ENTP children is much like dealing with ENTP adults. If you want to have him open up and talk to you about what is going on, then you need to address him as you would any other adult. Speak, not from feeling or concern, but from rationality with good intent. Don't try to be a boss or tell him what to do.
Chances are your son simply doesn't care about the effects of his actions. When ENTPs hit the self destruct button, there is little that can be done to stop them, unless it makes sense to do so.
I agree....appealing to the rational, don't talk down. But this V:
Things I wish people would have told me:
"I can see right now that you don't seem to care about anything in life and I get why you don't see the importance in the things you are doing right now. The fact of the matter is, that even though you are still young, the decisions you make right now WILL effect you later on. You need to look at what you want for yourself and your life and start coming up with ways that you can acquire this as quickly as possible, because the truth is you are not going to be happy until you have the ability to be self sufficient.
If you want the freedom to do what you know is right and good for you with out constantly meeting resistance, then you need to focus on the fact that what you are doing right now is only putting more attention on you. The consequences of your actions are going to result in people trying to control you more, and you will end up having a miserable life.
You need to figure out what you want and need and start working toward it. Thats the only long term solution. All these things that you are creating for yourself and having to deal with, will only slow you down and make you even more unhappy. So quit acting like a child and start taking responsibility for your actions. Then people will get off your back and you wont feel the need to be destructive, which I know you know, only hurts yourself.
I am saying this because I want to see you happy. If you ever need to talk about anything or just want to do something together I am here for you."
Would NOT have worked for me, when I was that age. I would take you way less seriously than before you spoke a word.
The sentiment/message is right, the wording/delivery, for me personally, when I was a kid, way off.
Probably a stupid post, lol,
Trying makes you an automatic winner.
Here is a phrase that would have made me angrier. WAY angrier.
It's not something to say in front of some ENTP teens, even if I know I shouldn't make generalizations.
I was seeing the same thing. I would have lost respect and got my back up because I could sniff the armchair psychologist patronizing, even at that age, from a mile away!
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That sounds very odd for an ENTP kid.
I mean, not the grades, but the fact he acknowledges to have
"his future mapped out".
I had at least 10 different options (with contingency plans of how one aided/set up for, the other 9 options).
I was gonna learn to swim, so that I could become a syncronized swimmer, and if that didn't work, my dream of deep sea exploring would need me to be a swimmer anyway. - type deal.
ENTPs are Ne-dom. They are obsessed with possibilities. Thousands of myriads of different possible scenarios are forming in their head within a single day.
That didn't mean I didn't apply the possibilities to the far-away future. It's just I had MANY set, firm plans for world exploration. Not a narrow, one, mission...only.
Maturity is a word that should be banned from the vocabulary of every ENTP.
I concur!
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As for the topic on racism and kids. Learning is key in this phenomenon (unlearning, as well). I echo this V sentiment greatly:
What constitutes a stupid kid? The worst thing you can do is let this slide. An ENTP or any kid should not be lead to the possibility that they can underestimate another, or even better, go on thinking other kids abilities are subpar.
