[SJ] Are SJs afraid of change?

[Virtual ghost]

Watching and reading many posts made by SJ I have come to conclusion that SJs have this fear but for many cases the word fear is probably too strong. Especially if we are talking about very small things.

So, why you try to avod changes ?
I presume that it has something to do with Si.


Nothing of this is actually unknown. But in what I am actually interested in is how big this changes have to be that you sense them.
I am talking about two cases.
1.Changes in arrangement of objects.
2.Changes in the ways how system(s) work.


What kind of changes you find annoying?
How often you are afraid that you will not be flexibile enough?
How calming for you is that you can visualize the actual change/problem?



Also I am interested in what SJs think about idea of rearranging the entire system and what SJs think about crashing it completly? (So that the better one can be formed).

Feel free to take term "system" in the way you find the most suitable for explaining your interests.

 

[Eagle]

Watching and reading many posts made by SJ I have come to conclusion that SJs have this fear but for many cases the word fear is probably too strong. Especially if we are talking about very small things.

So, why you try to avod changes ?
I presume that it has something to do with Si.

I don't really and yet I do. It might have something to do with Si. Change is neither good or bad in some sense. It's the results the change brings about.


Nothing of this is actually unknown. But in what I am actually interested in is how big this changes have to be that you sense them.
I am talking about two cases.
1.Changes in arrangement of objects.
2.Changes in the ways how system(s) work.


What kind of changes you find annoying?

The stupid ones. The illogical and illegitimate ones. Change is fine, doesn't bug me. I can and do adapt. I can and am constantly changing and growing, improving upon what was their previously. Why change something if you can't make it better? Why put yourself further back than what you already are?

How often you are afraid that you will not be flexibile enough?

Never.

How calming for you is that you can visualize the actual change/problem?

It can be rather nice. Changes that lead us entirely into the unknown and in the opposite direction from where we want to go (or a roundabout route) are stressful. Like, my college/life plans. If they fall through I have no more back-ups. I have no other options that I want. So, if they fall through, I'm lost.

Also I am interested in what SJs think about idea of rearranging the entire system and what SJs think about crashing it completly? (So that the better one can be formed).

Feel free to take term "system" in the way you find the most suitable for explaining your interests.

It honestly depends on the system. I think rearranging the system is much more applicable in today's age, but there are points when maybe something more needs to be done.

 

[wrldisquiethere]

So, why you try to avod changes ?

It's uncomfortable. Change makes us uncomfortable because we don't know what's coming next and it makes us feel unprepared. Changes in physical surroundings cause confusion and readjustment.

I am talking about two cases.
1.Changes in arrangement of objects.

If I walk into work and something even small has been moved, I immediately start looking around to figure out who has been at my desk and why.

My mom loves rearranging furniture and it drives me crazy. My brother-in-law laughs about how the furniture looks different every time he comes to visit. My living space can stay the same for years and I'm perfectly happy.

2.Changes in the ways how system(s) work.

I always balk at the change from the beginning, even if it's a good one. It takes me awhile to adjust to the thought of doing things differently. Working with N's and P's, the changes are often good ones and I'm glad later they were made, but the process stresses me out.

Last summer I was in a job that I didn't like, and out of the blue one day was offered my dream job. I almost turned it down on the spot. Thankfully I thought it over for awhile (longer than I needed to) and accepted, and I'm so happy I did.

What kind of changes you find annoying?

Changes in behavior, changes in schedule, changes in routine, changes in plans.

How often you are afraid that you will not be flexibile enough?

It's not something I worry about unless a situation comes up where I'm forced to be flexible. In those situations, I worry about it quite a bit until things are concrete and in order again.

How calming for you is that you can visualize the actual change/problem?

It helps a little, though it helps more if I can visualize the process. It's not so much the end result that scares me as the process of getting there. I like to know how I am going to get there, and things are not calm until I have a plan for making it work.

As far as life changes are concerned, I just need to have an idea of how I will arrive at the next stage. I need to know what I need to do and how I need to prepare myself along the way to be ready for the change or else I'm scared to death.

I hope that helps. SJ is my least favorite of personality traits and I would change those letters in a heartbeat if I could. I really try to let my P friends/family teach me to relax, but it doesn't come naturally at all.

 

[Snow Turtle]

Yep. The common link between all 4 is basically Si.

Si builds systems upon collected data. To destroy that system would be mentally exhuasting as it's basically feels like continously pressing the reset button. The resistance to change is much worse if we don't have alternative systems or models to fall back on. (Which may happen if someone focuses way too much on something) Ultimately these models are what I use to navigate my life.

Does Ni not experience something similar? The desire to have a stable internal reality?

It's the reason that Ne is so difficult to deal with. It seems natural for dominant user to conjure up many different paths and flip between them, there's certainly a heavier sense of chaos.

At the end of the day I won't go against change if I know it's for the better. However I'd like time to prepare for it, absorb the system and see how it can be incorporated into my life. This manifests itself best when I'm playing MMORPGs. I have a strong tendancy to read pages upon pages of information even before I start the game. Partly because I don't want to go down the wrong path, and partly because I want what's best way to navigate.

 

[Virtual ghost]

It's uncomfortable. Change makes us uncomfortable because we don't know what's coming next and it makes us feel unprepared.


I hope that helps. SJ is my least favorite of personality traits and I would change those letters in a heartbeat if I could. I really try to let my P friends/family teach me to relax, but it doesn't come naturally at all.

I will give you my opinion about this. If you feel/think this way you S much bigger problem for you then your J. Since N can control/help J to quite extensive degree. Since N can see the outcomes.
Plus, because of N you stop to notice those changes (like in the furniture example) so your J will not have so much problems with that. Since you don't see the problem anymore.

 

[Snow Turtle]

I will give you my opinion about this. If you feel/think this way you S much bigger problem for you then your J. Since N can control/help J to quite extensive degree. Since N can see the outcomes.
Plus, because of N you stop to notice those changes (like in the furniture example) so your J will not have so much problems with that. Since you don't see the problem anymore.

Hm. That might be the explanation for reason Ni doesn't get as easily stressed out as Si does. The ability to predict the future by extention without all the data. I'm a lost bird without that data and changes usually involve having to locate everything again.

 

[pure_mercury]

Arbitrary change can bother me, if I am happy with the way things have been going. About once a year, my mom used to rearrange the den with the big TV and couches and all, and there was rarely a rhyme or reason to it.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Yep. The common link between all 4 is basically Si.

Si builds systems upon collected data. To destroy that system would be mentally exhuasting as it's basically continously pressing the reset button, it's much much worse if we don't have systems or models to fall back on. These models are what I use to navigate my life. Does Ni not experience something similar? The desire to have a stable internal reality?

It's also the reason that Ne is so difficult to deal with. It seems natural for dominant user to conjure up many different paths and flip between them, there's certainly a heavier sense of chaos.

At the end of the day I won't go against change if I know it's for the better, but I'd like time to prepare for it, absorb the system and see how it can be incorporated into my life.

This manifests itself when I'm playing MMORPGs, I have a strong tendancy to read pages upon pages of information even before I start the game. This is because I want what's best and I don't want to be confused.

Yes, Ni likes to deal with the systems also. But Ni deals with them on a very different way. From the perspective of Si Ni likes to destroy systems.
Since Ni does not work in a way to find comfortable/easy solution. What Ni wants is to rearrange entire system so that is more efficient and ready for the next step of improvement.
Ni understands that the only system that is stabile is the system that is changing and upgrading all the time.
In short Ni tends to wipe out everything you are used to in your life. Since system must be improved.

 

[Recoleta]

Watching and reading many posts made by SJ I have come to conclusion that SJs have this fear but for many cases the word fear is probably too strong. Especially if we are talking about very small things.

So, why you try to avoid changes ?
I presume that it has something to do with Si

I guess because usually it's a pain to deal with. Either I won't know what's going on, or there will be people who are even more clueless than I am that will be asking all kinds of questions. Also, change usually beings on a reaction of other changes, so really, it's never a simple or clean process. It's not that I'm necessarily against it, because there are changes that certainly need to happen, but regardless, it's almost always a pain to deal with.

Nothing of this is actually unknown. But in what I am actually interested in is how big this changes have to be that you sense them.
I am talking about two cases.
1. Changes in arrangement of objects.

I can be really sensitive to this. I'm not the kind of person that misplaces or loses things, and I find it annoying when people touch my things. My brother constantly goes around the house and "cleans up" (as he likes to call it). What he's really doing is moving things around so that I can't find them again. I find this incredibly annoying. I understand my system, and it works perfectly for me, so just leave it alone.

Also, I have a somewhat photographic memory, so I remember visual stimuluses pretty well. It comes naturally, though.

2. Changes in the ways how system(s) work.

This depends. I'm fully willing to embrace positive changes, but you're gonna have to prove to me that it's a positive change first. An example of this is Microsoft Office 2003 being upgraded to the 2007 version. The change, in my mind, was totally useless. It still does all the same stuff (does it even have any merit-worthy upgrades or did they just arrange things for fun?), but the problem is that no one is around to tell you the great new stuff it supposedly does. You're just supposed to figure it out on your own or read a manual. Yeah, I simply don't care that much...just give me the 2003 version and I'll be more than happy.

What kind of changes you find annoying?

When things are changed simply for the sake of changing, or any change that means things are going to be made more ambiguous than they were before.

How often you are afraid that you will not be flexibile enough?

Pretty much never. Change is a part of life...just roll with it. Usually there is always someone who is more clueless than you are.

How calming for you is that you can visualize the actual change/problem?

This certainly helps make the change more comfortable because it doesn't involve such a leap of faith.

Also I am interested in what SJs think about idea of rearranging the entire system and what SJs think about crashing it completly? (So that the better one can be formed).

This totally depends. I think that for the most part, completely scrapping a system that is already in place is usually unnecessary. "Don't throw out the baby with bath water" type of thinking. Some parts usually have merit. Keep the good, dump the bad, and build upon the good points. I really can't think of an instance in my life where I have totally gotten rid of a system. I'm not a radical person, and I try not to live my life in extremes.

 

[nightning]

Does Ni not experience something similar? The desire to have a stable internal reality?

Ni does require a stable internal reality, but that reality is not the same thing as what Si has. Ni is not concrete, it sees and needs patterns. Stability here doesn't mean no change in the environment but that the system must fit the internal pattern. Which means if change is consistent with the pattern, Ni dominants are okay with change.

I get stressed out when I need to switch from one pattern into another. For example I'm in science but I've always enjoyed web design. It took me several years to work up the guts to try making the switch. I had no way of judging my suitability for design, not sure if I am/will be good enough to making a living out of it. Too many variables and unknowns for Ni to make any reliable guesses.

It's the reason that Ne is so difficult to deal with. It seems natural for dominant user to conjure up many different paths and flip between them, there's certainly a heavier sense of chaos.

The Ne dominants don't see it as that... chaotic. They can flip back and forth and consider all the paths because they don't center themselves on one spot.

Yes, Ni likes to deal with the systems also. But Ni deals with them on a very different way. From the perspective of Si Ni likes to destroy systems.
Since Ni does not work in a way to find comfortable/easy solution. What Ni wants is to rearrange entire system so that is more efficient and ready for the next step of improvement.
Ni understands that the only system that is stabile is the system that is changing and upgrading all the time.
In short Ni tends to wipe out everything you are used to in your life. Since system must be improved.

I wouldn't go so far as to say Ni wipes everything out... because if the overall pattern doesn't exist Ni can't function.

Ni takes a starting point and modify it as it moves along. Change is constant but gradual and the new is always based on the previous version. This is different from Ne's way of clearing the board and starting from scratch every time.

 

["?"]

From Best Fittype:

How ESTJs Respond to Change
When a change is needed or is happening, they are likely to look first to what has been done before, what is tried and true. In the area of something new, they like having some conventional examples to follow. They compare new information quickly to their large internal data bank of life experiences as well as the external rules and standards to be followed.

How ESFJs Respond to Change
Change will not be pursued merely for the sake of change. If a new decision will be more helpful, then they will change direction as needed. They will do a lot of comparing of new information to their personal experiences and all the information they have collected about the people involved.

How ISTJs Respond to Change
They face change cautiously. When the situation is unfamiliar, they first try to relate it to their previous experiences. Once they’ve made a decision, it is not easily changed unless it can be shown to be impractical and unworkable. Being able to describe the end product of the change in as much detail as possible helps them get on board with the change.

How ISFJs Respond to Change
Once they’ve decided on something, changing their minds can be difficult, so give them information early. Help them see the positives in a change, especially as they relate to helping the team function more effortlessly and harmoniously. They want a lot of information, including the rationale for the change, and plenty of time to integrate this new information. When pressed, their first response will likely be no unless they are given time to mull it over.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I wouldn't go so far as to say Ni wipes everything out... because if the overall pattern doesn't exist Ni can't function.

Ni takes a starting point and modify it as it moves along. Change is constant but gradual and the new is always based on the previous version. This is different from Ne's way of clearing the board and starting from scratch every time.

I have said "from perspective of Si" what creates an entire new context.
I said that Ni destroys systems because it changes them to the point where you can't recognize them anymore. At least that is what Ni plans on the long run. I didn't meant destroyed in litteral way.
What I wanted to point out is that Si and Ni can have alot of conflict over this. Since the system that Si likes does not exist anymore if Ni get its hand on it. Which is because Ni sees patherns and knows that it has to change/adapt.

Does this make sense to you?

However this is quite simplistic viewpoint about the subject.

 

[Snow Turtle]

Ni does require a stable internal reality, but that reality is not the same thing as what Si has. Ni is not concrete, it sees and needs patterns. Stability here doesn't mean no change in the environment but that the system must fit the internal pattern. Which means if change is consistent with the pattern, Ni dominants are okay with change.

I get stressed out when I need to switch from one pattern into another. For example I'm in science but I've always enjoyed web design. It took me several years to work up the guts to try making the switch. I had no way of judging my suitability for design, not sure if I am/will be good enough to making a living out of it. Too many variables and unknowns for Ni to make any reliable guesses.

I have to be honest...
I'm having difficulty in figuring out what concrete means exactly. How can one tell the difference between concrete and patterns? You describe patterns to be almost like some sort of system.

However the description of it being OK with change if it intergrates change makes total sense.

 

[Giggly]

If things are good how they are, I don't really see the need for change, and I might not like it in that case. Some people like change just for sake of change because they thrive on the excitement of something new/different, and I have trouble understanding that. But if it's obvious that valuable improvements can be made by changing things with little damage, I will be all for it.

 

[Condor]

If things are good how they are, I don't really see the need for change, and I might not like it in that case. Some people like change just for sake of change because they thrive on the excitement of something new/different, and I have trouble understanding that. But if it's obvious that valuable improvements can be made by changing things with little damage, I will be all for it.

Agreed. The only thing I generally have a problem with regard to change is when it isn't thought out all of the way through. I generally don't like change for change's sake. If the original concept was working and producing results, why change to something that cannot be better, but may be worse? To me, it simply makes no sense.

 

[Giggly]

SJ's are not afraid to change their underwear.

 

[pure_mercury]

SJ's are not afraid to change their underwear.

I do it at least once a week.

 

[Unique]

I mix things up for the hell of it all the time

keeps things from being boring

 

[Cimarron]

I mix things up for the hell of it all the time

keeps things from being boring

I only do this with unimportant things. The less important something is, the more likely I am to change it for no reason. The more important something is, the less likely I am to change it at all--I'll have to be very careful to investigate an important situation thoroughly before I decide it's worth changing.

(I think that's what happens...)

 

[ajblaise]

I wouldn't say that SJs are more afraid of the unknown than other types, but that they have less of a grasp and handle on the way future events could play out than non-SJ types do. Someone with future orientated thinking has possibilities and scenarios more weighed out in their mind, so it's not necessarily that they fear the unknown less, but that the unknown is a little more known to them.