[INFJ] INFJ: the one that got away?

[lorkan]

noigmn: I admire your wisdom

Although. An INFJ having, or even accepting, the same attitude an ENFP has about relationship is a nasty site. An ENFP guy can play pimp and can get away with it fairly good without getting girls into to much sorrow, their Fi makes intelligent moves to lower the other pain.
An INFJ guy who act like a pimp would rather leave you when you most need them because the pimping attitude makes the INFJ's not following any rules, no meaning to be nice because lack of structure (right or wrong).

Now. An ENFP man (or women) who would act more like a caring, strongly dependent person would problably have no clue of the capability of what the other person can give and will therefor have unreasonable demands and depends to much on the other person while the INFJ act pretty fair and will be able to understand that when someone leaves you, it was probably never ment to be and if the same person comes back because they found something in you that they didnt think existed you will understand that

 

[lorkan]

they will behave like this until their death. What is gone is gone. Seclusion is needed to begin a new beginning and not be a slave to the past.

 

[lorkan]

MY POINT WAS: It exists good reasons why INFJ's dont make emotional reflection.

 

[SoAndSo]

Yeah, this has been the motif of my relationship life. (I'm sure this must happen to other types, but I suspect INFJ may be particularly vulnerable to this.) I always put it down to that I can fall in love very quickly and stay there and I show it. A case of 'just knowing'. I think that can be frightening for the other person, sometimes they flinch. But they're still so attracted to you... weirdness ensues. Every guy that has done that has written me some tortured letter or told me I am the biggest regret of his life after the fact. Which theoretically I should find very touching but I just don't feel for them anymore. I don't have respect for them anymore.

I have thought about what part I might play in this dynamic too. imo INFJ can be very accepting of others in a relationship, however they want to be is just fine by me. I can't bring myself to demand things that others don't want to give freely. I think unless the person you are with is very conscientious that can foster a certain kind of dynamic. There is such a thing as being too non-demanding. Also, in the past I have tended to be completely satisfied by the way I feel about a person.

I have slowed down in terms of starting relationships and it has helped. It is not as much fun of course but it's the only way I could avoid becoming jaded and a great way to weed out the ambivalent style men.

I can totally relate to this.

 

[violaine]

It is unusual, because I have let one get away. Not for any of these reasons though. I find that maturity also equates to accepting love in more than one form, and opening up to the possibilities. Sometimes to be so decisive, is to not give love the chance to grow. To be there for the other, but offer no level of connection that can satisfy them. Me being a 4w5 ENFP is part of the problem, but talking to older INFJs, there is a misplaced definiteness about the world that is the younger INFJs strength, and undoing. To be right too often is to miss the alternatives. You have a clear answer there about how something is, so why look for reasons to disprove it? I shouldn't say it, but it is like seeing the world from a million of your own perspectives, when to see it from one other's can complete the puzzle. You can't really make the statement about 4-5 guys letting you get away, without considering why. (on a more human level than I was loving and easy, so they got bored).

Every situation has more than one side. If 4-5 guys let me go and regretted it, I would normally consider there is a pattern there. ie. guys who like you for some reason are driven to let you go. Or walk past it. In the real world no one leaves love because it is too easy. They leave it because they don't have an appreciation of it. Not because it is too easy, but because it has glossed over them. It hasn't grabbed their soul. You can say it was the other's naivity. But really that is just excusing your duty and part in it. Nothing is ever the other person's responsibility. They are human's with liberty and lives of their own. If you never enter into their world or intersect its course, it has no reason to merge with yours. It just travels along with you, and passes you. Some complements and niceties are thrown between the two worlds, but they stay separate. The 4-5 who left saw something good in it after. I'd ask why didn't they see it at the time? There was obviously some kind of misunderstanding, because if two people really liked eachother, something deeper should form. And I'd wonder to myself, if I did like any of them, how I could avoid it happening another time. And ask whether I am the one who got away, or the one who missed the chances? I see no reason for pride in it.

hmm, I'm pretty sure it's not about taking pride in it. (These kinds of things are a little hard to share precisely because it can come off as self-promotion.) That it happens is genuinely puzzling. It's about those occasions when there is connection but then things falter mostly because of their treatment or decisions. Then you get an outpouring of regret from the other person. It is perplexing.

I do agree that it is useful to examine why something occurs repeatedly. I don't agree that it's because the INFJ hasn't made an impression, that has not been my experience. Quite the opposite. (Perhaps the very reserved INFJs have had that experience? I don't think so though.) I imagine INFJ are all prob rather intense but also deeply accepting on some level in their relationships. That can spook people a little who aren't initially so serious and may lead them to take your intensity for granted for a time or think that you will always feel the way you do about them as near as I can figure.

 

[BlueScreen]

Thanks for the insights. I'm always aware I'm walking unknown territory offering any advice to INFJs, because we function so differently. And most of the time it can seem like I am trying to flaw or attack you, because I have a pretty unbounded approach to concepts and emotions. Still I know you guys will never work like an ENFP, as much as we will never work like you. It just bothers me sometimes when you seem to be burning your bridges for fuel. Though it is probably the difference in perspective. From an ENFP perspective, it can often be like "argh! What are they doing? Why didn't they see that coming?". But really it is probably that these things affect us in a different way, so we see them as more of a problem.

The INFJ I've known is great. And I find reasons for attachment, it is just the feeling one step from complete attachment that causes me to wander. She might not be a typical example. But it can feel like when you get close, there is some escape or avoidance. The moment gets broken down, rather than savoured. There is a high intensity and feeling of oneness, then nothing. The affirmation is never really handed to you on a plate. From talking to my mother who is INFJ she said she did similar before she matured more, that was why I mentioned it. The lifeline is never really thrown to the chasing party. You instead need to throw your soul into the void and hope it is processed well and comes out in one piece. The love given feels like it has to be of a type that it can not be without already connecting and accepting it. A chicken and egg thing maybe. A lot of this is the ENFP-INFJ type relations though.

 

[lorkan]

noigmn: INFJ's can be oblivious to your grander scheme (Ne), oblivious to others emotions unless spoked or showed (Fi), oblivios to strategical steps (Te) and oblivious to what would be "normal" (Si). INFJ's surely needs balance, through aid, in this. Thanks for your effort.

 

[SillySapienne]

noigmn: I admire your wisdom

Although. An INFJ having, or even accepting, the same attitude an ENFP has about relationship is a nasty site. An ENFP guy can play pimp and can get away with it fairly good without getting girls into to much sorrow, their Fi makes intelligent moves to lower the other pain.
An INFJ guy who act like a pimp would rather leave you when you most need them because the pimping attitude makes the INFJ's not following any rules, no meaning to be nice because lack of structure (right or wrong).

Now. An ENFP man (or women) who would act more like a caring, strongly dependent person would problably have no clue of the capability of what the other person can give and will therefor have unreasonable demands and depends to much on the other person while the INFJ act pretty fair and will be able to understand that when someone leaves you, it was probably never ment to be and if the same person comes back because they found something in you that they didnt think existed you will understand that

No offense, but wtf are you driveling on about, for realz, yo!

 

[BlueScreen]

Thanks Lorkan .

I love you guys. I just always wish I could catch those intense moments and keep them. Though you guys have a lot more to you and more to do in life than sit around giving intense moments to ENFPs . I always take a while to really get into the moment, because I can be shy when liking someone, and probably give the wrong signs, so it is gone when I get there.

 

[violaine]

Thanks for the insights. I'm always aware I'm walking unknown territory offering any advice to INFJs, because we function so differently. And most of the time it can seem like I am trying to flaw or attack you, because I have a pretty unbounded approach to concepts and emotions. Still I know you guys will never work like an ENFP, as much as we will never work like you. It just bothers me sometimes when you seem to be burning your bridges for fuel. Though it is probably the difference in perspective. From an ENFP perspective, it can often be like "argh! What are they doing? Why didn't they see that coming?". But really it is probably that these things affect us in a different way, so we see them as more of a problem.

I like having an exchange of views myself. I enjoy the different insights.

The INFJ I've known is great. And I find reasons for attachment, it is just the feeling one step from complete attachment that causes me to wander. She might not be a typical example. But it can feel like when you get close, there is some escape or avoidance. The moment gets broken down, rather than savoured. Or you get tested. The affirmation is never really handed to you on a plate. From talking to my mother who is INFJ she said she did similar before she matured more, that was why I mentioned it. The lifeline is never really thrown to the chasing party. You instead need to throw your soul into the void and hope it is processed well and comes out in one piece. The love given feels like it has to be of a type that it can not be without already connecting and accepting it. A chicken and egg thing maybe. A lot of this is the ENFP-INFJ type relations though.

Yes, INFJ are usually rather cautious with sharing our deeper feelings, being 'seen' as it were. Some testing is usually involved, though not necessarily consciously, just the interaction that happens before we feel comfortable to go to another level. I think a knowledge of the many ways a person's heart can wax and wane informs it. It makes us cautious. (Sorry INFJs to be using the royal 'we' and 'us' all over the place, lol.) Also, it is difficult having let someone in when they really hurt you. It is hard to cut someone out of your soul. (yeah, and sorry about the dramatic reference to the 'soul', lol.)

That being said, I have no problem letting someone in if we are compatible. That is the key. I don't think I have to just let anyone in and I never would.

 

[penelope]

It is unusual, because I have let one get away. Not for any of these reasons though. I find that maturity also equates to accepting love in more than one form, and opening up to the possibilities. Sometimes to be so decisive, is to not give love the chance to grow. To be there for the other, but offer no level of connection that can satisfy them. Me being a 4w5 ENFP is part of the problem, but talking to older INFJs, there is a misplaced definiteness about the world that is the younger INFJs strength, and undoing. To be right too often is to miss the alternatives. You have a clear answer there about how something is, so why look for reasons to disprove it? I shouldn't say it, but it is like seeing the world from a million of your own perspectives, when to see it from one other's can complete the puzzle. You can't really make the statement about 4-5 guys letting you get away, without considering why. (on a more human level than I was loving and easy, so they got bored).

Every situation has more than one side. If 4-5 guys let me go and regretted it, I would normally consider there is a pattern there. ie. guys who like you for some reason are driven to let you go. Or walk past it. In the real world no one leaves love because it is too easy. They leave it because they don't have an appreciation of it. Not because it is too easy, but because it has glossed over them. It hasn't grabbed their soul. You can say it was the other's naivity. But really that is just excusing your duty and part in it. Nothing is ever the other person's responsibility. They are human's with liberty and lives of their own. If you never enter into their world or intersect its course, it has no reason to merge with yours. It just travels along with you, and passes you. Some complements and niceties are thrown between the two worlds, but they stay separate. The 4-5 who left saw something good in it after. I'd ask why didn't they see it at the time? There was obviously some kind of misunderstanding, because if two people really liked eachother, something deeper should form. And I'd wonder to myself, if I did like any of them, how I could avoid it happening another time. And ask whether I am the one who got away, or the one who missed the chances? I see no reason for pride in it.

A sense of pride isn't my point. I wonder if this is a discussion that could really only be limited to other INFJ. I don't feel that anyone else is understanding what I'm getting at.

This was initiated by a conversation I had recently with a guy I dated a few years ago, who apologized for our relationship ending, saying he realized later on that he had made a mistake and regretted our separation.

It humored me that he was one of several guys who had said this to me, and it got me thinking that this could be an INFJ thing. Our personalities don't shine or glitter or attract attention from another side of a room. We don't advertise our depth or our capabilities.

In my case, the guys that have had an opportunity with me, and the attraction was mutual, it was because they had gotten to know me and found something worth getting closer to... perhaps because I made them feel comfortable, liked, understood, etc. But, in nearly every one of these cases, they were distracted by another girl, who was shiny and glittery and demanded their attention and ultimately, only kept their attention to occupy herself and for her vanity. Other cases could be blamed on the guy being young. I'm sure they sensed a necessity of commitment when it came to a relationship with me. I am not the flighty type. I don't easily allow my heart to wrap itself around something I don't intend to keep around for more than a few months. Anyhow, this probably caused them to seek elsewhere, and then later have a change of heart in what they desire and realize all along that I could've provided that.

Yes, that sort of thing likely happens to everyone at some point. My argument is that this probably happens to INFJs much more frequently, due to our personalities.

(I was working on writing more, but got pretty distracted and lost my train of thought).

 

[Lady_X]

if so that's really interesting and totally unfortunate...or maybe not...maybe you don't want someone who's easily distracted anyway.

eta: realized that was a pointless post...sorry.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

I wonder if this is a discussion that could really only be limited to other INFJ. I don't feel that anyone else is understanding

Ditto.

 

[BlueScreen]

That being said, I have no problem letting someone in if we are compatible. That is the key. I don't think I have to just let anyone in and I never would.

I've got a few questions about something that has been on my mind for ages..

Does close friendship wander into love with INFJs? Or are they more separate for an INFJ than ENFP? I've known this INFJ for years, asked her out early, to a pretty straight out no. But since things have always seemed close. There are moments occasionally where we seemed destined, then drift apart again. She was thinking of moving when I went interstate. Wanted me to travel with her. The thing is I've had long enough to sort my thoughts on it and come to terms with it, and have no problem with just friends, except in the case that she really likes me. Sometimes it feels like it, sometimes I feel like I'm not even there.

 

[lorkan]

CC: I was making a point, and may have made it unnecessarily hard. If you get offended by any stereotyping, im sorry for it.

noigmn: It actually has happend 2 times that I've got ENFP' hope up and then failed to sustain intensity because of both lack of energy and scariness of feeling like
"this is it...?". Like a standard has been set and my gf expects something to be delivered and I start feeling like an ISFP, want to be more unpredictable with no desire to live up to expectations and still make her happy.
Bottomline. I still have to mature myself.

 

[BlueScreen]

A sense of pride isn't my point. I wonder if this is a discussion that could really only be limited to other INFJ. I don't feel that anyone else is understanding what I'm getting at.

This was initiated by a conversation I had recently with a guy I dated a few years ago, who apologized for our relationship ending, saying he realized later on that he had made a mistake and regretted our separation.

It humored me that he was one of several guys who had said this to me, and it got me thinking that this could be an INFJ thing. Our personalities don't shine or glitter or attract attention from another side of a room. We don't advertise our depth or our capabilities.

In my case, the guys that have had an opportunity with me, and the attraction was mutual, it was because they had gotten to know me and found something worth getting closer to... perhaps because I made them feel comfortable, liked, understood, etc. But, in nearly every one of these cases, they were distracted by another girl, who was shiny and glittery and demanded their attention and ultimately, only kept their attention to occupy herself and for her vanity. Other cases could be blamed on the guy being young. I'm sure they sensed a necessity of commitment when it came to a relationship with me. I am not the flighty type. I don't easily allow my heart to wrap itself around something I don't intend to keep around for more than a few months. Anyhow, this probably caused them to seek elsewhere, and then later have a change of heart in what they desire and realize all along that I could've provided that.

Yes, that sort of thing likely happens to everyone at some point. My argument is that this probably happens to INFJs much more frequently, due to our personalities.

(I was working on writing more, but got pretty distracted and lost my train of thought).

Actually I get exactly where you are coming from and have been that guy myself. Not sure I want to keep doing it though.

I oscillate between extreme respect for INFJs and wondering if my world would be easier without their existence. Because by offering an alternative, that I can't truly see, the perception I am comfortable with is flawed. The ability to know people in conversation suddenly feels arbitrary and limited. And the reality I infer is no longer reliable.

 

[SillySapienne]

Yeah, this has been the motif of my relationship life. (I'm sure this must happen to other types, but I suspect INFJ may be particularly vulnerable to this.) I always put it down to that I can fall in love very quickly and stay there and I show it. A case of 'just knowing'. I think that can be frightening for the other person, sometimes they flinch. But they're still so attracted to you... weirdness ensues. Every guy that has done that has written me some tortured letter or told me I am the biggest regret of his life after the fact. Which theoretically I should find very touching but I just don't feel for them anymore. I don't have respect for them anymore.

Hmm, I can relate to this.

For some reason I was never taught nor ever cared to learn or play the "game of love".

When I like someone, I tell and show them that I like them, when I am in love with someone, I let that love known.

My IsFP sister was blessed with a talent that I was not, she has an impeccable way with men, she understands their nature well, and she "plays" with them to ultimately get what she wants from them, including their love and appreciation. She always makes fun of me for having *zero* game, and she is right, I don't.

sanveane, I, like you, have the habit of rapidly falling for guys and self-assuredly knowing when I am in love that I am actually in love.

When I feel deeply for someone I view that as such a special thing, something that should be expressed and rejoiced in, not ignored or denied.

I have thought about what part I might play in this dynamic too.

There is such a thing as being too non-demanding.

Grrrr, :blushing:, yeah there is.

(The things I have put up with in the past... )

It was and has been a hard awakening for me to come to the realization that love alone, is not enough, and that my love, no matter how deep, cannot single-handedly carry a relationship.

I have slowed down in terms of starting relationships and it has helped. It is not as much fun of course but it's the only way I could avoid becoming jaded and a great way to weed out the ambivalent style men.

Yep...

And, boo!!!

My heart sometimes does not like what's smart, if that makes sense.

It is unusual, because I have let one get away. Not for any of these reasons though. I find that maturity also equates to accepting love in more than one form, and opening up to the possibilities. Sometimes to be so decisive, is to not give love the chance to grow. To be there for the other, but offer no level of connection that can satisfy them. Me being a 4w5 ENFP is part of the problem, but talking to older INFJs, there is a misplaced definiteness about the world that is the younger INFJs strength, and undoing. To be right too often is to miss the alternatives. You have a clear answer there about how something is, so why look for reasons to disprove it? I shouldn't say it, but it is like seeing the world from a million of your own perspectives, when to see it from one other's can complete the puzzle. You can't really make the statement about 4-5 guys letting you get away, without considering why. (on a more human level than I was loving and easy, so they got bored).

Every situation has more than one side. If 4-5 guys let me go and regretted it, I would normally consider there is a pattern there. ie. guys who like you for some reason are driven to let you go. Or walk past it. In the real world no one leaves love because it is too easy. They leave it because they don't have an appreciation of it. Not because it is too easy, but because it has glossed over them. It hasn't grabbed their soul. You can say it was the other's naivity. But really that is just excusing your duty and part in it. Nothing is ever the other person's responsibility. They are human's with liberty and lives of their own. If you never enter into their world or intersect its course, it has no reason to merge with yours. It just travels along with you, and passes you. Some complements and niceties are thrown between the two worlds, but they stay separate. The 4-5 who left saw something good in it after. I'd ask why didn't they see it at the time? There was obviously some kind of misunderstanding, because if two people really liked eachother, something deeper should form. And I'd wonder to myself, if I did like any of them, how I could avoid it happening another time. And ask whether I am the one who got away, or the one who missed the chances? I see no reason for pride in it.

Excellent post, noigman, you make this ENFP proud!!!

I agree that we are all responsible for our roles in our relationships.

Whenever I think about all the horrible things I have at times went through in my past relationships, I cannot help but to acknowledge the ways in which I contributed to *allowing* these horrible things to occur.

You can only hurt me and treat me poorly if I *let* you do so.

It always takes two.

 

[BlueScreen]

CC: I was making a point, and may have made it unnecessarily hard. If you get offended by any stereotyping, im sorry for it.

noigmn: It actually has happend 2 times that I've got ENFP' hope up and then failed to sustain intensity because of both lack of energy and scariness of feeling like
"this is it...?". Like a standard has been set and my gf expects something to be delivered and I start feeling like an ISFP, want to be more unpredictable with no desire to live up to expectations and still make her happy.
Bottomline. I still have to mature myself.

Don't worry my maturity sucks also. I think we never stop growing up.

It's interesting to see from the other side. What is it you want in these situations? Like if it played out perfectly what would happen instead?

 

[lorkan]

noigmn: Friends from childhood are like family to me, ofc if they have fun with me but especially if they care to listen to me when im feeling down. Deep down INFJ's are ESTP's, experience is everything.

 

[penelope]

I've got a few questions about something that has been on my mind for ages..

Does close friendship wander into love with INFJs? Or are they more separate for an INFJ than ENFP? I've known this INFJ for years, asked her out early, to a pretty straight out no. But since things have always seemed close. There are moments occasionally where we seemed destined, then drift apart again. She was thinking of moving when I went interstate. Wanted me to travel with her. The thing is I've had long enough to sort my thoughts on it and come to terms with it, and have no problem with just friends, except in the case that she really likes me. Sometimes it feels like it, sometimes I feel like I'm not even there.

For me, I've always had an issue with skip-friendship-cut-to-relationship things. They've happened (and interestingly, those are the ones that end up regretting the turn of events), but the guys that I imagine something working out beautifully with are the ones that I've gotten to know well as friends first, and there it turns into something more. It'd say that's probably the case with your INFJ.