How to agonize people

[proteanmix]

Would you two cut this shit out?

 

[SolitaryWalker]

I'm enjoying this..I think Brendan is too..to a point..

 

[proteanmix]

Well I'm not. All you two do is cut and snipe at each other. Why don't you just have a rendezvous somewhere and tell us how it went.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

But see that's the thing, as soon as you make it plain what you're trying to do, all I have to do is walk away. In an online community, that's harder to do. If it were in person, however, I'd probably just punch you right in the face.

What if I dont make it plain what I am trying to do. For the most part I will act like I enjoying hearing about you and your life and subtly squeeze sardonic comments in here and there..

But wait..you're right..thats probably not going to get me very far (not much farther beyond the 'agitated/annoyed' state) to do some real damage I'd have to make my motives obvious...


**Hiding motives isnt very common among INTs, you're right about that..we tend to highly value honesty, INTPs especially--as do I.

Although for the sake of this thought experiment, I do not imagine myself as your adversary, or even an INT for that matter, more along the lines of an unhealthy ESTP who read my thread and wanted to test it out on you. I think a person like that wouldnt have too many qualms about hiding insincere motives and doing all in his power to agonize you, they usually dont do this to hurt people, but for shock value--to see how far they can push you and get away in one piece.

P.S

I used the word agonize instead of antagonize because my goal was causing agony. Indeed I'd first have to antagonize you, albeit if I were to be successful with my experiment agony would be inflicted.

You seem to be arguing that it wont happen (the experiment wont be successful), but thats a matter of how you carry it out, not unless the experimenter is skillful enough.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

Well I'm not. All you two do is cut and snipe at each other. Why don't you just have a rendezvous somewhere and tell us how it went.

Lol..I wasnt cutting at him..at least wasnt my intention..I was just running my thought experiment and Brendan was going along with it..seems like he still is...I think its 'I'd punch you in the face' comment of his that tainted the image of the situation for you...dont think he intended that as a threat but as a theoretical statement of what he may do had he been placed in a situation that I've envisaged in this thread.

 

[proteanmix]

Lol..I wasnt cutting at him..at least wasnt my intention..I was just running my thought experiment and Brendan was going along with it..seems like he still is...I think its 'I'd punch you in the face' comment of his that tainted the image of the situation for you...dont think he intended that as a threat but as a theoretical statement of what he may do had he been placed in a situation that I've envisaged in this thread.

This is hardly the first time you two have gotten into it with each other. Why should I think this is any different?

 

[SolitaryWalker]

This is hardly the first time you two have gotten into it with each other. Why should I think this is any different?

Perhaps if you had Fi you'd see the difference between this one and those of the distant past..


Or another way to think of it is that he initially went along with my thought experiment and only made one seemingly antagonistic comment..you shouldnt think that there is something spiteful by the whole exchange because of that one comment that you've perceived as mean-spirited..you ought to look at the big picture instead.

But nonetheless I enjoy discussions like this because they force me to reason through things, that means an application of pure Ti, and NTs tend to thrive in competitive environments and antagonistic conversational exchanges..most wont admit it because it has been stigmatized as immature and turns off other types because they fail to realize that there is nothing sinister about this...

ENTJ and ENTP are the most manifest cases in point for that...INTJs enjoy the activity quite a bit...all NTs do really..as I said..INTP--the least, but thats because they are more interested in working through their thoughts on their own rather than getting them out to the external world like their 3 brothers.

 

[proteanmix]

And perhaps if you had developed Fe you'd see why it's annoying.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

Yeah yeah..Brendan is an Fe dominant and he doesnt seem to mind as much as you do...but thats not relevant because the exchange is between him and I..if it annoys you...you'd be best advised to stay out.

Or in other words, I dont feel your sentiment of being annoyed because my Fe isnt strong enough to pick up on this, but on the theoretical level I understand why it would strike you as such.

But because the exchange does not involve you directly, it is simply none of your business.

 

[proteanmix]

As I asked the very first time, I don't see why you devote even a small part of your energy into figuring out how to antagonize/agonize people.

And I don't care if Brendan is Fe dominant and doesn't mind. You two are doing the same crap over and over again and it gets old. Nobody wants to watch the perpetual tease. I suggest you consummate the relationship and stop boring us.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

As I asked the very first time, I don't see why you devote even a small part of your energy into figuring out how to antagonize/agonize people.

For the sake of getting a deeper understanding of how MBTI mechanisms work. It is purely theoretical and has no practical applications. I know its a turn off to your EJ mindset, but these were indeed my motives behind writing this. I am not saying go apply what I just wrote, but simply take a few moments to think about it and maybe you'll learn more about typology while you're at it.

Let me recapitulate for you one more time. Just because I like figuring out how to agonize people, it does not mean that I recommend that you go out and apply my discovery to the real world.

Archimedes, another INTP would make all kinds of monstrous weapons that could be utilized to guard the city that he lived in. And they were. Military once used the crane he devised to hook onto the enemy ships and flip them backwards and esoteric mirrors of all sorts to burn the oncoming fleet from nearly a mile way. But he didnt make all of those just so his city can stave off intruders, he didnt even think about any of this at all. All he thought about was making discoveries to feed his inner life.

And I don't care if Brendan is Fe dominant and doesn't mind. You two are doing the same crap over and over again and it gets old. Nobody wants to watch the perpetual tease. I suggest you consummate the relationship and stop boring us.

The difference is that we are not beakering in this one but discussing ideas. Had a reasonable person been in your shoes, he/she would not have figured that the former was the case because of this one comment that Brendan made.

Again, I am still enjoying this because you're giving me more Ti work..keep it up..

 

[cafe]

Yeah yeah..Brendan is an Fe dominant and he doesnt seem to mind as much as you do...but thats not relevant because the exchange is between him and I..if it annoys you...you'd be best advised to stay out.

Or in other words, I dont feel your sentiment of being annoyed because my Fe isnt strong enough to pick up on this, but on the theoretical level I understand why it would strike you as such.

But because the exchange does not involve you directly, it is simply none of your business.

I'm afraid you might be mistaken about that. She's a mod and that makes it her business.

 

[proteanmix]

For the sake of getting a deeper understanding of how MBTI mechanisms work. It is purely theoretical and has no practical applications. I know its a turn off to your EJ mindset, but these were indeed my motives behind writing this. I am not saying go apply what I just wrote, but simply take a few moments to think about it and maybe you'll learn more about typology while you're at it.

Let me recapitulate for you one more time. Just because I like figuring out how to agonize people, it does not mean that I recommend that you go out and apply my discovery to the real world.



The difference is that we are not beakering in this one but discussing ideas. Had a reasonable person been in your shoes, he/she would not have figured that the former was the case because of this one comment that Brendan made.

Again, I am still enjoying this because you're giving me more Ti work..keep it up..

I have no intentions of applying what you say to the real world because I know how to get what I want from people with playing those stupid little games you've suggested. If you get your jollies by figuring out how to get on people's nerves then you lead a very sad life.

Yes you are viewing Fe in action so your Ti should be nice and full after this.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

I'm afraid you might be mistaken about that. She's a mod and that makes it her business.

How she feels about it does not have any weight. It can only be construed as her business if he can show how it violates forum policy.

 

[Totenkindly]

Why do people want to do things to purposefully piss other people off?

I think it's called "love."

(Love is cruel. )

"Clean" their desk. Throw away any loose papers.

I think I actually felt my heart seize up when you said that.

Say "agonize" when the more accurate word would be "antagonize".

That one's been ANNOYING me like mad ever since I saw the thread.

 

[substitute]

Present the off-balance ENTP sort of persona... that you'd be willing to share even the most seemingly foundationless and superficial perceptions of the world with everyone you come across just to show how clever you are...

You should've included this in the 'how to annoy ENTP's' section - by confidently asserting that there are any such things as irrelevant things, and that their motive for sharing the things that are shot down as irrelevant, is to show how clever they are, or that this is in fact ever a motive of theirs.

I know that one really pisses me off every time, cos to me the only reason I ever tell anyone anything is because it seems useful to me, I'm trying to be useful and help by making sure everything's accounted for. It hurts to be told I'm being arrogant or showing off.

Keep on reminding them of how stupid they are because they cant memorize anything

My ISTJ friend says just that to me, but it doesn't get to me, it just makes me laugh - how can someone tell a linguist that they can't memorize anything? I can write in like, 9 different alphabets while he can't seem to even figure out which vacuum cleaner to buy and has a fit and goes home instead out of the trauma and fear of buying the 'wrong one'!

 

[SolitaryWalker]

I have no intentions of applying what you say to the real world because I know how to get what I want from people with playing those stupid little games you've suggested. If you get your jollies by figuring out how to get on people's nerves then you lead a very sad life.

Yes you are viewing Fe in action so your Ti should be nice and full after this.

Oh no..please continue..tell me more about how you use your Fe to get from people what you want (I want to learn about this purely on the theoretical level, I am not interested in applying it), and moreover manage to prevent them from seeing that you're using/manipulating them by making your motives appear congenial.

I'm very much interested in this topic and how ENFs could pull it off so well most of the time that others are still under the delusion that they are being sincere.

 

[proteanmix]

I think it's called "love."

(Love is cruel. )

This thing called love I just can't handle it
this thing called love I must get round to it
I ain't ready
Crazy little thing called love
This (This Thing) called love
(Called Love)
It cries (Like a baby)
In a cradle all night
It swings (Woo Woo)
It jives (Woo Woo)
It shakes all over like a jelly fish

This ain't my kind of love, that's for sure.

 

[proteanmix]

Oh no..please continue..tell me more about how you use your Fe to get from people what you want (I want to learn about this purely on the theoretical level, I am not interested in applying it), and moreover manage to prevent them from seeing that you're using/manipulating them by making your motives appear congenial.

I'm very much interested in this topic and how ENFs could pull it off so well most of the time that others are still under the delusion that they are being sincere.

I don't have to make my actions appear congenial because most of the time they are. If you weren't so afraid of your own emotions you'd recognize that.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

You should've included this in the 'how to annoy ENTP's' section - by confidently asserting that there are any such things as irrelevant things, and that their motive for sharing the things that are shot down as irrelevant, is to show how clever they are, or that this is in fact ever a motive of theirs.

I know that one really pisses me off every time, cos to me the only reason I ever tell anyone anything is because it seems useful to me, I'm trying to be useful and help by making sure everything's accounted for. It hurts to be told I'm being arrogant or showing off.

I never said that most ENTPs talk out of their ass and share information just to share it. Only the neurotic ones..those who do not apply Introverted Judgment to their Intuitions and spit out whatever abstractions crossed their path...and are being informative about it because the ENP mindset, is by its nature informative. (Their dominant function is a perceiving one...perceiving functions tend to be more informative rather than directive)

If you're Ti is working fine, you probably should be able to share knowledge that is both sound and useful to people, but not if you're neurotic.

My ISTJ friend says just that to me, but it doesn't get to me, it just makes me laugh - how can someone tell a linguist that they can't memorize anything? I can write in like, 9 different alphabets while he can't seem to even figure out which vacuum cleaner to buy and has a fit and goes home instead out of the trauma and fear of buying the 'wrong one'!

I just meant toy around with their inferior Si..I have an older ENTP friend who is in his 40s and to this day he hates how they made him memorize facts by route in school...then you've got construe their lack of S skills in a way that would undermine their confidence in their competence overall.