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Positive energy and focus vs rooting for doom

ygolo

My termites win
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Aug 6, 2007
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6,730
I believe nihilism and fatalism are self-fulfilling. The current generation of autocomlete based AIs are trained on the stories we collectively feed it. If these are the models we're benfing into shape for systems that we want to be helpful and harmless, a nihilistic collective imagination will skew that.

There are people whose fun, branding, identity, and even livelihood depends on people believing the future and state of the world is horrible and declining, even when things go in the opposite direction.

"If it bleeds, it leads."

The communal/cooperative rules of the landlord game (the inventor made it because she thought it could teach Georgism) were dropped to become "Monopoly." When the game maker agreed to make her original game, again they dropped the cooperative alternative rules because people found it boring.

More people find Terminator, Mad Max, and Star Wars more interesting than Star Trek.

I think there's a simpler explanation to why tik tok is showing Chinese citizens educational content while the US sees time-wasting or self-hating content. It's simply where each nation's collective imaginations are. It's certainly possible that China is using psyop techniques inside tik tok. But that theory posits an extra thing than just what tik toks collaborative filter of user preference and content features serves. If anything, it's more likely they are using psyop techniques inside China to boost the positive.

I don't believe in utopias. But I do believe in pro-topias. We can make things a bit better. There'll always be unintended consequences. Being able to find out what those are early and adjusting quickly is the better way to proceed. The heat death of the universe will take everything eventually. Let's make what we can actually predict and control the best we can make it.
 

ceecee

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We are going to find ourselves pushed back so far that incremental anything is just going to be pissing in the wind. Either people get comfortable with working well outside their comfort zone or pondering whatever the fuck the Chinese are looking at on TikTok is going to be the last thing anyone thinks of. Stop looking at social media, stop listening to mainstream media - they are the cause of most of this. This isn't nihilistic, it's pragmatic. Now it's about surviving, waiting for the next catastrophe. There is no life for the majority of the people in this country.
 
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ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
6,730
We are going to find ourselves pushed back so far that incremental anything is just going to be pissing in the wind. Either people get comfortable with working well outside their comfort zone or pondering whatever the fuck the Chinese are looking at on TikTok is going to be the last thing anyone thinks of. Stop looking at social mafia, stop listening to mainstream media - they are the cause of most of this. This isn't nihilistic, it's pragmatic. Now it's about surviving, waiting for the next catastrophe. There is no life for the majority of the people in this country.
I think we're in agreement, but I am not sure I understood all the subtler points.

For instance, I'm not sure who the social mafia is.

I don't listen to legacy media if I can help. I have friends and family who do.

I posted Bernie Sanders call to not despair, when I came across it.

I am also trying to be generally philosophical about the need for positive imagination.
 

ceecee

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I think we're in agreement, but I am not sure I understood all the subtler points.

For instance, I'm not sure who the social mafia is.

I don't listen to legacy media if I can help. I have friends and family who do.

I posted Bernie Sanders call to not despair, when I came across it.

I am also trying to be generally philosophical about the need for positive imagination.
Typo- media not mafia.
 

ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
6,730
There's bad journalism. But that doesn't make the concept of journalism a bad thing.

 

ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
6,730

I'm not in a position that anything can be done other than survival. It's been like that for years.

But I'm certainly not going to switch to rooting for doom.
 

ygolo

My termites win
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Aug 6, 2007
Messages
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Ultimately, the metaphors we feed our word-calculator forms will be the way the potential completions will go.

These are metaphors from the article.
  • (1) AI as a friend.
  • (2) AI as a monster.
  • (3) AI as a helpful assistant.
  • (4) AI as a child.
  • (5) AI as a god.
  • (6) AI as a mirror.

I think all of those are hogwash.

AI is a field of study, about as old as Computer Science itself. Some of the discoveries and developments can be used for products, like helpful assistants. Maybe there's a useful "mirror" product too. Who knows?

But there's a huge gap between research and product.
 

ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
6,730
I'm not going to criticize the things I disagree with here. The emotional thrust and big picture are things are definitely ideas I agree with:

 

chubber

failed poetry slam career
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I'm not going to criticize the things I disagree with here. The emotional thrust and big picture are things are definitely ideas I agree with:


It's hard to narrow down exactly how to even respond to that YouTube. Biology is efficient, if we don't use it, it doesn't grow. For example, a person in a wheel chair whose legs will eventually due to muscle atrophy. I think along the same lines when it comes to AI. They keep using examples like painting ... but what if you have poor motor skills. Then, one can say, well, they will figure out why and able to adjust genetics with alternative therapies. It is exciting and frightening at the same time. The next generation who is already struggling to find basic assets a problem, yet it will be completely normal for them to be completely reliant on services, offered by their city, private companies etc.

There are going to be even more things to keep us distracted. I just cannot fathom, how one would pay, when almost no one in the future can afford to buy. I'm still wrapping my head around that. I think they will figure it out.
 

ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
6,730
It's hard to narrow down exactly how to even respond to that YouTube. Biology is efficient, if we don't use it, it doesn't grow. For example, a person in a wheel chair whose legs will eventually due to muscle atrophy. I think along the same lines when it comes to AI. They keep using examples like painting ... but what if you have poor motor skills. Then, one can say, well, they will figure out why and able to adjust genetics with alternative therapies. It is exciting and frightening at the same time. The next generation who is already struggling to find basic assets a problem, yet it will be completely normal for them to be completely reliant on services, offered by their city, private companies etc.

There are going to be even more things to keep us distracted. I just cannot fathom, how one would pay, when almost no one in the future can afford to buy. I'm still wrapping my head around that. I think they will figure it out.

There was a lot in the video I disagreed with too. It's been a while since I watched it.

The main point about society creating artificial scarcity was the big picture I agreed with.
 
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