Random Politics Thread

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

As I said I am exploring institutions that have clear effect on my life. So it is kinda stupid that I stop with just one link.
Anyway today there is something completely different on the menu. In other words this is the link on the main and formal page of the European center left block. So here we don't have dilemmas because this is evidently 100% "woke" by US standards. Therefore I suppose that this one will be more interesting to much more people that hang out here. I am just sharing, maybe someone will find something of interest here.


S&D main page

To me it seems essentially like what the American "far left" is proposing.

 

[Virtual ghost]

To me it seems essentially like what the American "far left" is proposing.

Just as I said: 100% woke.
However in Europe you can still go further left than the link, since this was just center left. While in US that is basically forbidden zone.
I mean what I wanted to point with my posts was that our systems have evident tilt among them. I don't have your far right. Your center right is my far right. Your center is my center right ... etc. While in the end you don't real equal to my far left. Plus if we watch just economy it is possible that the tilt is actually 2 levels.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Just as I said: 100% woke.
However in Europe you can still go further left than the link, since this was just center left. While in US that is basically forbidden zone.
I mean what I wanted to point with my posts was that our systems have evident tilt among them. I don't have your far right. Your center right is my far right. Your center is my center right ... etc. While in the end you don't real equal to my far left. Plus if we watch just economy it is possible that the tilt is actually 2 levels.

I think

Just as I said: 100% woke.
However in Europe you can still go further left than the link, since this was just center left. While in US that is basically forbidden zone.
I mean what I wanted to point with my posts was that our systems have evident tilt among them. I don't have your far right. Your center right is my far right. Your center is my center right ... etc. While in the end you don't real equal to my far left. Plus if we watch just economy it is possible that the tilt is actually 2 levels.

I don't think it can be fixed by relying on norms and institutions, though. Like, for instance, Democratic politicians appointing Republican judges or prosecutors. That's not "noble" or "the right thing to do", it's just dumb at best. I'm tired of hearing whining about Republicans not playing fair and the Democrats doing nothing to prevent it or counteract it because it's not the "respectable" thing to do. It's Lawful Stupid (or Lawful Evil, maybe)

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Gosh the Republican party is a bunch of Nazis but I'm going to appoint Republicans to important positions because if I didn't it would be improper!

This is the kind of stuff I can't stand.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I think
I don't think it can be fixed by relying on norms and institutions, though. Like, for instance, Democratic politicians appointing Republican judges or prosecutors. That's not "noble" or "the right thing to do", it's just dumb at best. I'm tired of hearing whining about Republicans not playing fair and the Democrats doing nothing to prevent it or counteract it because it's not the "respectable" thing to do. It's Lawful Stupid (or Lawful Evil, maybe)

What I said was just very general approximation. Not to mention that not all places in US or EU are equal, there are significant regional differences.

However I am not really surprised by what you are saying since to me these are twin parties. Their basic principles are very similar. Not to mention that they have to support one another in order to keep the duopoly. I mean they are both to the right of my far right in topics like healthcare or free college. Therefore I am not surprised that they mix among each other. To me these parties are probably even more similar than to you. Therefore it is kinda funny when US people are cheering right wing victories in EU. Which for decades are supporting policies they hate: socialized healthcare, free collage, keeping guns illegal .... etc. Your right isn't like my right and those examples aren't really the points of divide in Europe. In my particular local case it is actually the center right that legalized gay marriage, just so that we are more in sync with the rest of EU. What is basically unthinkable in US.

 

[The Cat]

Gosh the Republican party is a bunch of Nazis but I'm going to appoint Republicans to important positions because if I didn't it would be improper!

This is the kind of stuff I can't stand.

My reaction^

 

[The Cat]

To me it seems essentially like what the American "far left" is proposing.

Most of our left is center right.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

My reaction^

That came to my mind, also.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Most of our left is center right.

That was kinda my point, to me Bernie is a people friendly right winger. Center right leaning towards the center. Everything he is proposing my local conservatives are already doing. Plus they are doing stuff that go beyond even that. Complete GMO ban, free tampons for the poor school children, laws that make eviction much harder, laws that protect people in debt so that you can't take someone's entire monthly income (so instead this has to be paid back in pieces), 4 weeks of paid vacation every year, paid parental leave ... etc.

 

[The Cat]

That was kinda my point, to me Bernie is a people friendly right winger. Center right leaning towards the center. Everything he is proposing my local conservatives are already doing. Plus they are doing stuff that go beyond even that. Complete GMO ban, free tampons for the poor school children, laws that make eviction much harder, laws that protect people in debt so that you can't take someone's entire monthly income (so instead this has to be paid back in pieces), 4 weeks of paid vacation every year, paid parental leave ... etc.

Trying to convince conservative family members that is like pulling hen's teeth though. It's maddening because the policies are things they claim they wanted before they got brainwashed into beliving that stuff is sinful. What's worse is most of them consider these false patriots also consider themselves history buffs...but their memories are shorter than goldfish, and they don't recognize they're worshiping a cookbook.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Trying to convince conservative family members that is like pulling hen's teeth though. It's maddening because the policies are things they claim they wanted before they got brainwashed into beliving that stuff is sinful. What's worse is most of them consider these false patriots also consider themselves history buffs...but their memories are shorter than goldfish, and they don't recognize they're worshiping a cookbook.

This reminds me of an old video.

 

[The Cat]

fun @ceecee he made one about it, I suspected he wouldnt be able to resist.​

 

[Red Herring]

This reminds me of an old video.

I'm surprised the humanist doesn't contradict the reverent but only politely smiles when he makes factually wrong claims about evolution. Every highschool biology class should transmit enough knowledge to be able to prove him wrong.

Reminds me of that video of a creationist challenging Richard Dawkins with the claim that the human eye could not possibly have developed through evolution. Dawkins patiently and in some detail explains the evolution of the eye only for the creanionist in the end to go all "Yeah, whatever, not changing my mind, lol"

 

[Virtual ghost]

I'm surprised the humanist doesn't contradict the reverent but only politely smiles when he makes factually wrong claims about evolution. Every highschool biology class should transmit enough knowledge to be able to prove him wrong.

Reminds me of that video of a creationist challenging Richard Dawkins with the claim that the human eye could not possibly have developed through evolution. Dawkins patiently and in some detail explains the evolution of the eye only for the creanionist in the end to go all "Yeah, whatever, not changing my mind, lol"

Well, the dude seems to be polite. Plus I doubt that we saw the entirety of that exchange in that video. However not everywhere evolution is being thought in school (or in much detail). Therefore in some places this is still pretty controversial topic. Rural USA is evidently one of them.

 

[Virtual ghost]

DOJ search of Biden's Delaware home results in more seized documents


As most of you probably already know.
This really is a political disaster, since you can only trivialize the problem or push double standards. Therefore either way you are losing political points.

 

[The Cat]

"For anyone who's interested in the deeper context of the Mud Wizard: In Germany there are ongoing protests, because the government plans to demolish a vacated village just for a huge energy company (RWE) to mine the coal under it. Many people see the village as a symbol for environmental protection and the preservation of nature, so they stayed there and occupied the village, prompting the police to vacate the village (again). The Mud Wizard is one of the protesters who protested the government and he went viral." -June Drecshel

Have to feel like in USA this would have been where the cops called in the airstrike and broke out the tanks...Police States are fucking scary.​

 

[Red Herring]

"For anyone who's interested in the deeper context of the Mud Wizard: In Germany there are ongoing protests, because the government plans to demolish a vacated village just for a huge energy company (RWE) to mine the coal under it. Many people see the village as a symbol for environmental protection and the preservation of nature, so they stayed there and occupied the village, prompting the police to vacate the village (again). The Mud Wizard is one of the protesters who protested the government and he went viral." -June Drecshel

Have to feel like in USA this would have been where the cops called in the airstrike and broke out the tanks...Police States are fucking scary.​

*shoves glasses up nose*

Well, actually ...

... the protestor was mostly called "the monk" in the German media. There even was an article asking what real monks thought about a violent protestor who kicked cops in the stomach while dressed up as a monk because he didn't just throw mud.

The protests are not so much about saving the village of Lüzerath (which has been abandoned for a while) but against digging for coal (because that is obviously CO2 poison). It's not about preserving nature in Lüzerath, but about climate action. The "deeper context" is that we have a relatively progressive government that claims to be big on climate action. However, they made a deal with RWE (a huge energy company) which says that RWE will become climate neutral several years sooner than initially agreed and in exchange they get a permit to dig up those coal reserves in Lüzerath. Opinion in Germany is wildly divided (even among supporters of the Greens and within the environmentalist movement) whether that deal was a good thing overall or if the government let itself be bamboozled by RWE. RWE claims that the country needs that coal for energy security. Some studies support their claim, other studies suggest that's not true. There have been claims of police brutality, but also countreclaims and little evidence either way, as far as I know.

If you want an even wider social context, it's about an inner debate of the environmentalist left. One of the biggest political topics over here are Extinction Rebellion and Last Generation, especially young protestors glueing themselves to streets, monuments, etc. to protest for more decisive climate action. For the extreme far-right climate action is bullshit anyway, for the center-right, center and center-left their goals are laudable but their methods are unacceptable and for the left and far-left their methods are perfectly justified. There was a famous case in Berlin recently where an ambulance couldn't get through to the site of an accident because climate protestors had blocked the road, at least that was how the tabloids portrayed it.

The biggest debates and conflicts are now ironically between the more radical protestors and the Greens who are now in government and forced to deal with compromises, legal issues and all that stuff. In the eyes of the protestors the Greens are sell-outs, in the eyes of the Greens the protestors are unrealistic extremists.

Even wider wider context: Germany may have given the world the word Realpolitik, but lareg parts of the country are highly idealistic and ideological when it comes to politics. My hubby told me about an article explaining that to the British football (soccer) is a busines and has been one for decades so protesting for human rights (LGBTQ) at the World Cup is hypocritical. In Germany however every village has a not for profit soccer club and people on some level still associate the sport with community service and high ethical standards. Their disgust at FIFA corruption is genuine. Same thing with the war in Ukraine, there are genuine moral discussion going on that go far beyond what is or isn't in the national interest. I am not saying that Germans are in any way more ethical, just that they tend to be more naive and idealistic and have high expectations of those in positions of power or influence (which can obviously lead to disappointment and cynicism). It's a romantic streak that goes back centuries (and does have a darker, more problematic side to it, but that is another even longer story).

 

[Virtual ghost]

"For anyone who's interested in the deeper context of the Mud Wizard: In Germany there are ongoing protests, because the government plans to demolish a vacated village just for a huge energy company (RWE) to mine the coal under it. Many people see the village as a symbol for environmental protection and the preservation of nature, so they stayed there and occupied the village, prompting the police to vacate the village (again). The Mud Wizard is one of the protesters who protested the government and he went viral." -June Drecshel

Have to feel like in USA this would have been where the cops called in the airstrike and broke out the tanks...Police States are fucking scary.​

True, in normal countries the police doesn't have a mandate to overrun people without much of a warning. However this is kinda easy to explain since in US everyone can be armed and therefore a threat that has to be neutralized as quickly as possible.


Once I got trapped in a building since the janitor forgot about me. So I triggered the alarm just by staying in the building. Therefore in the dark halls I would probably have major problem with police in US, while here we managed to sort it out with talk. After that I just packed my things and I went home. False alarm.

 

[ceecee]

fun @ceecee he made one about it, I suspected he wouldnt be able to resist.​

He's not wrong and it's funny. But it's a perfect illustration of the fact that every person on the right or that calls themself a conservative does so because their primary motivation in life is fear. Everything looks like a danger.

 

[The Cat]

He's not wrong and it's funny. But it's a perfect illustration of the fact that every person on the right or that calls themself a conservative does so because their primary motivation in life is fear. Everything looks like a danger.

Its what makes them such tragic figures imo; having grown up in that environment; fear is the single most cultivated and acceptable emotion that is capitalized upon, that and the strange dynamics in multi generational abuse and gaslighting. Which I think is why education and mental health is so eschewed by the institutions down here...no one wants the serfs learning to read.