Random Politics Thread

[Tellenbach]

You cant seriously think this is an occasion to try and score points against the Democrats?

Why not? If Democrat policies are the problem, why shouldn't they be held accountable?

 

[Stigmata]

You cant seriously think this is an occasion to try and score points against the Democrats?

I doubt this has anything to do with whether or not the city is run by democrats or republicans, in respect of this type of thing I'd say there's a consensus between the parties.

I still find it surprising Telle the extent to which you, a libertarian, decide to defend the Republicans, its not your party surely, I didnt think libertarians had any party.

Didn't you know? Libertarians are mostly Republicans who don't want to be associated with the negative stereotypes attributed to most Republican voters. Libertarians end up voting overwhelmingly for Republicans.

Also, I don't see how this country continues to exists as it currently does when everything has become political based tribalism, and the focus becomes which side can we attribute the most blame to problems we have as a society versus people realizing that there is no red and blue and these issues affect Americans on both side of the political spectrum equally -- No one wants to actually work toward solutions, they just want to be absolved in the eyes of public opinion from being the problem.

 

[ceecee]

I think perhaps we shouldn't have a militarized police force (which is something many Democrats and Republicans happen to support... a true "bipartisan consensus" issue like the Iraq war, so electing Republicans won't fix that), and that would be an ideal situation. I'm not for getting rid of cops entirely. Are you in favor of a millitarized police force? Your statements placing the blame on single mothers as the real problem suggests that you are. Am I incorrect? Do you in fact believe the police should be demilitarized?

If you do not, then I would say you don't have much of a problem with the government being on your neck.

The only people that say shit like this are people so obtuse to not factor in police unions, the state legislatures they pander to and and pay off and a DoD that does its best to militarize police forces all over the country for free. But it's Democrats! and the black chief of police! so those are the only two entities that should be fixing it.

I have yet to encounter a Libertarian in touch with reality in any way and he is no exception.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Didn't you know? Libertarians are mostly Republicans who don't want to be associated with the negative stereotypes attributed to most Republican voters. Libertarians end up voting overwhelmingly for Republicans.

Also, I don't see how this country continues to exists as it currently does when everything has become political based tribalism, and the focus becomes which side can we attribute the most blame to problems we have as a society versus people realizing that there is no red and blue and these issues affect Americans on both side of the political spectrum equally -- No one wants to actually work toward solutions, they just want to be absolved in the eyes of public opinion from being the problem.

I’m a libertarian who predominantly votes democrat over Republican. I haven’t voted for a Republican since the 2002 midterms. This is simply because there are no better, viable alternatives to these parties in our two party duopoly, so I begrudgingly support what I see as the lesser of two evils.

Most progressive or socially liberal Americans are libertarian in the truest sense of the term, as ultimately they value civil liberties and the freedom to live and let live without unjust interference from police, state, and capitalist authoritarianism. It’s just that the meaning of libertarianism has become so twisted from its European origins that de facto libertarians are unwilling to identify as such. Of course political identity is overrated and I don’t necessarily think people should cling so tightly to any labels. Just sayin

But you are right in that many fiscally conservative but socially liberal republicans have adopted the label as a way to distance themselves from the current Republican Party, but most are only libertarian at a superficial level and will continue to support the GOP while using such labels as a way of saying “hey I’m not one of those alt right guys, I just happen to support 90% of the exact same shit they support”

 

[Lark]

Didn't you know? Libertarians are mostly Republicans who don't want to be associated with the negative stereotypes attributed to most Republican voters. Libertarians end up voting overwhelmingly for Republicans.

Also, I don't see how this country continues to exists as it currently does when everything has become political based tribalism, and the focus becomes which side can we attribute the most blame to problems we have as a society versus people realizing that there is no red and blue and these issues affect Americans on both side of the political spectrum equally -- No one wants to actually work toward solutions, they just want to be absolved in the eyes of public opinion from being the problem.

Yeah, the old "mistakes were made, but not by me, I am blameless" thing

 

[The Cat]

Didn't you know? Libertarians are mostly Republicans who don't want to be associated with the negative stereotypes attributed to most Republican voters. Libertarians end up voting overwhelmingly for Republicans.

Also, I don't see how this country continues to exists as it currently does when everything has become political based tribalism, and the focus becomes which side can we attribute the most blame to problems we have as a society versus people realizing that there is no red and blue and these issues affect Americans on both side of the political spectrum equally -- No one wants to actually work toward solutions, they just want to be absolved in the eyes of public opinion from being the problem.

Dont worry, it doesnt. It's already dead. The timeline just hasnt caught up to the point where most people have noticed. Many seem to hope to never notice even long after there's no more meat to scavenge on the bones.

 

[Red Herring]

I have long noticed that little good every came from people who use the term "cultural marxism". At first I knew little about the concept but noticed it was used, ehem, by certain people. When I looked it up on Wikipedia the German article basically defined it as "a buzzword of the American alt-right".

Now I learned that Dr. Michael Blume, antisemitism appointee of the state of Baden-Württemberg and a lifelong conservative, wrote an article last year about the term, its historic roots, why it is deeply antisemitic and - while much older than nazis - how it was embraced by an fostered by Hitler and the Nazi party.

So, a German conservative expert on antisemitism explaining that "cultural marxism" is antisemitic nazi vocabulary and the stuff of dangerous conspiracy myths in the blood libel tradition...... in case any of you guys were looking for a good non-leftwing source on this.

Gastbeitrag: Warum der Verschworungsmythos vom „Kulturmarxismus“ so gefahrlich ist '-' Belltower.News

 

[ceecee]

I have long noticed that little good every came from people who use the term "cultural marxism". At first I knew little about the concept but noticed it was used, ehem, by certain people. When I looked it up on Wikipedia the German article basically defined it as "a buzzword of the American alt-right".

Now I learned that Dr. Michael Blume, antisemitism appointee of the state of Baden-Württemberg and a lifelong conservative, wrote an article last year about the term, its historic roots, why it is deeply antisemitic and - while much older than nazis - how it was embraced by an fostered by Hitler and the Nazi party.

So, a German conservative expert on antisemitism explaining that "cultural marxism" is antisemitic nazi vocabulary and the stuff of dangerous conspiracy myths in the blood libel tradition...... in case any of you guys were looking for a good non-leftwing source on this.

Gastbeitrag: Warum der Verschworungsmythos vom „Kulturmarxismus“ so gefahrlich ist '-' Belltower.News

Very true. This is my favorite Rational Wiki entry of all time if anyone would like even more reading on this topic...

Cultural Marxism - RationalWiki

The good news is that "cultural Marxism" isn't real. The bad news is that people believe it is anyway.
—Chris Zappone, The Sydney Morning Herald[1]
“”The fairytale of cultural Marxism provided a post-communist adversary located specifically in the cultural realm – academics, Hollywood, journalists, civil rights activists and feminists.
—Jason Wilson, The Guardian[2]
Cultural Marxism generally refers to one of two things:

First — extremely rarely in popular discourse — "cultural Marxism" (lower C, upper M) refers to a strain of critique of popular culture by the Frankfurt School, framing such culture as being imposed by a capitalist culture industry and consumed passively by the masses.
Second — in common usage in the wild — "Cultural Marxism" (both uppercase) is a common snarl word used to paint anyone with progressive tendencies as a secret Communist. The term alludes to a conspiracy theory in which sinister left-wingers have infiltrated media, academia, and science, and are engaged in a decades-long plot to undermine Western culture. Some variants of the conspiracy allege that basically all of modern social liberalism is, in fact, a Communist front group.
This conspiracy theory hinges on the idea that the Frankfurt School wasn't just an arcane strain of academic criticism.[note 1] Instead, the Frankfurt School was behind an ongoing Marxist plot to destroy the capitalist West from within, spreading its tentacles throughout academia and indoctrinating students to hate patriotism and freedom. Thus, rock'n'roll, 1960s counterculture, the civil rights movement, the anti-war movement, homosexuality,[3] modern feminism, and, in general, all the "decay" in the West since the 1950s are allegedly products of the Frankfurt School.[4] It's also the work of the Jews.[5][6]

The conspiracist usage originated in Nazi Germany, where Kulturbolschewismus ("Cultural Bolshevism") was used to abuse political opponents. In particular, Jews purportedly were secretly orchestrating the spread of Communism (Jewish BolshevismWikipedia) as well as promoting sexual & gender permissiveness ("sexual Bolshevism").[7]

If anyone rants about "Cultural Marxists taking over culture!", feel free to remind them that they're spouting literal Nazi propaganda updated for the modern era.

Sure this is dangerous, just as it was in Nazi Germany. But people better come to terms with the fact that anyone spewing this shit is not someone/something that should be ignored and hope it will go away. It won't.

 

[Lark]

I actually think if there was anything that really deserved to be called cultural marxism it'd actually be a good thing.

 

[ceecee]

 

[ceecee]

Fascists

Texas GOP Passes Bill To Stop Teachers From Talking About Racism | HuffPost

Texas’ legislation goes further than other state proposals in that it would prevent students from participating in any kind of political activity as part of a civics or social studies course. The bill is written so broadly that it applies to students engaging in the most basic of civic activities, such as communicating with their own elected officials about a particular topic.

 

[The Cat]

Fascists

Texas GOP Passes Bill To Stop Teachers From Talking About Racism | HuffPost

We're falling down the mountain fast, and I dont think the country's little roots have stayed strong...

 

[Totenkindly]

House Republicans remove Liz Cheney from leadership over Trump opposition

Absolutely pathetic.

They had every option to wash their hands of him, yet have shoved their snouts right back into the mucky trough. At least now their fixation is absolutely clear if it wasn't before... but will it even matter?

 

[Virtual ghost]

House Republicans remove Liz Cheney from leadership over Trump opposition

Absolutely pathetic.

They had every option to wash their hands of him, yet have shoved their snouts right back into the mucky trough. At least now their fixation is absolutely clear if it wasn't before... but will it even matter?

That actually depends on the Democrats. If the right goes too far (what seems to be the case here) the Democrats must find the way how to bring to the polls half of the country that doesn't vote. While how to actually achieve that is something that can be done on a number of ways. However solving all this without all those people is probably unlikely. In Europe there is something called "contain of extremists" that basically comes down to normal parties ignoring the extremists in voting and similar events, while they try to win back their voters in order to reduce their amount of seats. Or alternatively if that isn't likely they try to make sure that general none voters actually show up and tilt the game quickly. In two party system this is evidently harder to do but as the saying say "desperate times desperate measures".

 

[The Cat]

That actually depends on the Democrats. If the right goes too far (what seems to be the case here) the Democrats must find the way how to bring to the polls half of the country that doesn't vote. While how to actually achieve that is something that can be done on a number of ways. However solving all this without all those people is probably unlikely. In Europe there is something called "contain of extremists" that basically comes down to normal parties ignoring the extremists in voting and similar events, while they try to win back their voters in order to reduce their amount of seats. Or alternatively if that isn't likely they try to make sure that general none voters actually show up and tilt the game quickly. In two party system this is evidently harder to do but as the saying say "desperate times desperate measures".

So many dems are just republicans in a blue hat though.

 

[Totenkindly]

That actually depends on the Democrats. If the right goes too far (what seems to be the case here) the Democrats must find the way how to bring to the polls half of the country that doesn't vote. While how to actually achieve that is something that can be done on a number of ways. However solving all this without all those people is probably unlikely. In Europe there is something called "contain of extremists" that basically comes down to normal parties ignoring the extremists in voting and similar events, while they try to win back their voters in order to reduce their amount of seats. Or alternatively if that isn't likely they try to make sure that general none voters actually show up and tilt the game quickly. In two party system this is evidently harder to do but as the saying say "desperate times desperate measures".

Thanks for the lecture based on your misunderstanding of the bolded.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Poor Liz Cheyney. I can't stand what they did to a woman of integrity and principle like her.

I never really thought this moment pundits have been talking about when the GOP would repudiate Trump that we've been hearing about for the past five years would come. They don't really understand what the GOP is actually about. Trump won the primary because that's what GOP voters want. It's not a "betrayal" of GOP principles but rather a realization of them in pure form. Some people might have been involved with the GOP who thought it was something different, but they were the outliers.

So no, I don't get why this is supposed to be a shocking tragedy. Actually, it makes me laugh. All the skeevy shit like selling out her own sister was for nothing because of a reality TV show dipshit. It's actually quite funny.

And no, I've never assumed we've hit rock bottom, either. We've been in decline for a long time and I'm not yet convinced we've hit the end of it. I think people mistake a flippant or detached attitude for having the position is that everything is as it should be. The truth is that I've seen that things aren't as they should be for quite some time and I'm quite used to it. I guess for the people who are just realizing that they get a more extreme emotional reaction.

People don't seem to understand that one can be cheerful while still being deeply attuned to the truth of it all, I suppose. I guess what keeps me going is that I don't just see powerful darkness, I see powerful light of an intensity that is also unprecedented. That might be enough to salvage things.

 

[Stigmata]

House Republicans remove Liz Cheney from leadership over Trump opposition

Absolutely pathetic.

They had every option to wash their hands of him, yet have shoved their snouts right back into the mucky trough. At least now their fixation is absolutely clear if it wasn't before... but will it even matter?

Have you seen the comments Lindsay Graham recently made about erasing members of the party who attempt to erase Trump? I just don't understand. I guess they see the base as so beholden to Trump that they cannot win elections without him being a prominent presence to legitimize those outside of himself, yet for whatever reason they refuse to acknowledge that since he won in 2016 the party has lost more and more government control.

2022 is going to be the litmus test for the direction the country is trending -- if Republicans, despite all the bad public optics thus far with the voting suppression bills and attempting to whitewash the Jan 6th insurrection attempt, manage to regain ground in Congress, that will be a very troubling sign that this fascist/anti-democratic movement is gaining momentum.

 

[Virtual ghost]

So many dems are just republicans in a blue hat though.

Traditionally that is how it worked.

However since the right started to throw out or marginalize their centrists this mechanism is starting to brake down. What means that the democrats will probably move right in order to absorb this group. What is kinda why I suggest that the real solution are none voters, which should stabilize things in the primaries (and generally).

The problem is that the American right is sinking into open radicalism and that simply changes some of the most basic premises of country's politics. On this side of the Atlantic you have people/parties that are rated publicly as no go zone due to their links to our ex totalitarian systems, so it should kinda be the same on the other side. Especially since reshuffle of the cards could or should make this more easy. Plus maybe I am wrong but I presume that most would still prefer 1990s style republican over open Trumpist (if they can't get get old school democrat). Therefore "classic republican" is still ok position if we consider the modern alternative on the right. What means that everyone interested should make a clear distinction between themselves and the radicals. Where I live center right and far right are two different parties and they really really hate each other. Therefore democrat vs. republican is something that is out of date. The real division here is Trumpist vs. everyone else and that is where we come back to the whole "containment" thing.


I mean this is damage control, this isn't pretty or open minded political debate. But sometimes this is exactly what is needed.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I called the GOP fascists in 2004 and people dismissed me and laughed at me, and told me that the election was "not that big of a deal" and that I should go outside and go to parties and forget about it. I admit I perhaps do have some bitterness with the knowledge that a lot of those people have probably been in panic mode for the last five years and might even show suspicion or anger towards me for not acting as outwardly alarmed or distressed.

But the more important point is that, the way I see it, none of this shit is new. There's just less flowery language covering it up. But we needed to come together as a nation.

Traditionally that is how it worked.

However since the right started to throw out or marginalize their centrists this mechanism is starting to brake down. What means that the democrats will probably move right in order to absorb this group. What is kinda why I suggest that the real solution are none voters, which should stabilize things in the primaries (and generally).
.

Well, voters are certainly being primed to be accept that because of punditry about the virtuous stand of principled conservatives like Liz Cheney.

Could Joe Biden sign a DOMA style bathroom bill/transgender athlete bill as a result? Perhaps I'm wrong and I'm discounting Joe Biden's firm track record of always sticking up for progressive positions.

On the other hand, you have the pandemic and all the economic issues associated with it which do not lead to the popularity of a neoliberal attitude towards things like the economy and health care. Perhaps they will move right on social issues, while moving left on economic issues.

Edit:
Oh, and just further context on my irritation with the defense of Liz Cheney (which also has to do with her father, in addition to her own actions)... I had an argument with my Dad over the weekend about this very subject... he said he wasn't defending Liz Cheney but it would be "bad for the country" if she lost power. You know what else has been bad for the country? The flipping Cheney family. I'm not sure we get all the craziness now without the actions of her old man. I guess in a hypothetical sense, it is bad for the country if you really believed that there was going to some moment of truth that the GOP was going to abandon Trump, but to me the certainty so many folks had that this was going to happen seemed more like wishful thinking than something based on reality. To me I can't see it as a "tragedy" because I was always skeptical of the GOP going any other way. When they picked Trump, and Trump won the election was the point when I took the existence of any electorally significant moderate conservatism seriously. You know what, if the GOP was filled with responsible moderate conservatives who weren't total fucking nutcases that I was told it was, they would have picked Marco Rubio or somebody like that. I would have even have allowed for that with Ted fucking Cruz (not that he isn't a ghoul). But a party that picks a goddamn reality TV star with a history of grifting people and not really having a firm track record of conservative beliefs just because he makes the liberal cucks upset is not made up of a bunch of rational responsible people who merely have a different perspective that simply need to come to their senses. They are convinced that they live in a different reality (if they inhabited the same reality, they wouldn't have picked Trump) , so there can be no "moment of truth."

But I apologize if I'm coming off as confrontational towards some people, and just know that I express the same frustration towards these opinions when my own Dad says them, and a great deal of my annoyance has to do with the conversations I've had with him.