Trump followers invade the capitol

[FemMecha]

I'm thankful Trump is out of office because his influence has been exhausting on every level of U.S. society. The more recent events and behaviors have left me seriously wondering why U.S. culture has so many people with stunted maturity en masse. The number of adult temper tantrums is overwhelming. There is a sort of self-centeredness that has its personal demands and then pouts or knocks stuff over when it doesn't get its way as we have seen in both the pandemic and the political events. The entitlement issue is quite extreme and highly correlated with using people. Entitled people don't even see it as using others because they are .... entitled to it. There is so much focus on taking, on getting what you want and deserve and so little focus on giving. People expect and take from others without considering if they give to others the same as they require. Trump is the extreme version of it, but this culture did vomit him up and he isn't a lone figure. It isn't only his supporters although there is definitely inclination for people to align with similar behaviors. The amount of bullying and bratty behaviors leaves an entire nation stuck in junior high school. Maybe it just looks worse to me right now, but no, this is well documented.

What is going on that an entire culture operates in this manner? Maybe people will calm down and behave better now that the Commander in Chief is quiet and stable. Maybe humanity will start looking better in this country. IDK.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I'm thankful Trump is out of office because his influence has been exhausting on every level of U.S. society. The more recent events and behaviors have left me seriously wondering why U.S. culture has so many people with stunted maturity en masse. The number of adult temper tantrums is overwhelming. There is a sort of self-centeredness that has its personal demands and then pouts or knocks stuff over when it doesn't get its way as we have seen in both the pandemic and the political events. The entitlement issue is quite extreme and highly correlated with using people. Entitled people don't even see it as using others because they are .... entitled to it. There is so much focus on taking, on getting what you want and deserve and so little focus on giving. People expect and take from others without considering if they give to others the same as they require. Trump is the extreme version of it, but this culture did vomit him up and he isn't a lone figure. It isn't only his supporters although there is definitely inclination for people to align with similar behaviors. The amount of bullying and bratty behaviors leaves an entire nation stuck in junior high school. Maybe it just looks worse to me right now, but no, this is well documented.

What is going on that an entire culture operates in this manner? Maybe people will calm down and behave better now that the Commander in Chief is quiet and stable. Maybe humanity will start looking better in this country. IDK.

That is very easy to answer: the country/culture doesn't know where to put red lines in the terms of expanding individualism. In other words when you go over the line you will basically turn almost everyone into some kind of a foe. What is bad for mental health and getting your basic need met. While on the other hand it is perfectly normal to have the mindset that you sell everything that someone wants to buy, even if it is complete BS.

 

[FemMecha]

That is very easy to answer: the country/culture doesn't know where to put red lines in the terms of expanding individualism. In other words when you go over the line you will basically turn almost everyone into some kind of a foe. What is bad for mental health and getting your basic need met. While on the other hand it is perfectly normal to have the mindset that you sell everything that someone wants to buy, even if it is complete BS.

I don't understand your response very well. I wouldn't want to sell people BS as long as they are buying. I believe in integrity in business and not scamming strangers.

What you said about ignoring boundaries makes some sense. People don't know where one individual ends and the other begins in terms of rights. That is a demonstrable issue. Individualism cannot expand to consume the individual standing next to you. The ideals are fine, but individualism ends where the next individual begins.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I don't understand your response very well. I wouldn't want to sell people BS as long as they are buying. I believe in integrity in business and not scamming strangers.

What you said about ignoring boundaries makes some sense. People don't know where one individual ends and the other begins in terms of rights. That is a demonstrable issue. Individualism cannot expand to consume the individual standing next to you. The ideals are fine, but individualism ends where the next individual begins.

Well I am simply saying that across the country and media space there is this mindset that you just have to sell whatever you can and earn more money. Even if you are selling BS of some kind: junk food, pointless legal services, reality TV, fake/incomplete meds, .... etc. Even if just 20% of the people thinks like this the car will eventually go off the cliff due to pilled up damage.

 

[The Cat]

I'm thankful Trump is out of office because his influence has been exhausting on every level of U.S. society. The more recent events and behaviors have left me seriously wondering why U.S. culture has so many people with stunted maturity en masse. The number of adult temper tantrums is overwhelming. There is a sort of self-centeredness that has its personal demands and then pouts or knocks stuff over when it doesn't get its way as we have seen in both the pandemic and the political events. The entitlement issue is quite extreme and highly correlated with using people. Entitled people don't even see it as using others because they are .... entitled to it. There is so much focus on taking, on getting what you want and deserve and so little focus on giving. People expect and take from others without considering if they give to others the same as they require. Trump is the extreme version of it, but this culture did vomit him up and he isn't a lone figure. It isn't only his supporters although there is definitely inclination for people to align with similar behaviors. The amount of bullying and bratty behaviors leaves an entire nation stuck in junior high school. Maybe it just looks worse to me right now, but no, this is well documented.

What is going on that an entire culture operates in this manner? Maybe people will calm down and behave better now that the Commander in Chief is quiet and stable. Maybe humanity will start looking better in this country. IDK.

 

[The Cat]

 

[Lark]

I been thinking about how out of date this style of thinking and demonstrating is, in a modern, decentred, network based society you could attack buildings or monuments or whatever you like as much as you like but it will not make a note of difference to the institutions.

This is something that the political left, I dont mean the liberals and lifestyle or single issue causes BTW, have been through. The right wing is going to have its day of "we held a strike but no one came", clicktivism, gigging as protest and all that other lifestyle stuff. Probably A LOT of futile violence, since the right has even more "action men" than the left ever did at the height of Che Guevara's fame.

Like even if its early days in network based organization or decentring its going to accelerate. In an age where random violence, crime or terror, and disease or environmental catastrophes could knock our key personnel its going to become more important that there other personnel who can be swapped in when it happens. Its coming down the line. Other, older, pseudo-feudalism and deference cultures are going to go to the wall. Finally.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I will continue and I will dare to be a little bit controversial:



One of the core problems is that US doesn't have a genuine conservative party, a genuine law and order pro stability party. What like in all post colonialist countries is coming from era of colonialism that rotates around anarchy and quick profit. While for me Anarcho-capitalist and libertarian ideas simply aren't conservatism. As one youtube comment from Europe says "That awkward moment when you have to explain to American that your local far right is economically to the left of his left". It is kinda awkward comment but the claim kinda stands, I evidently don't support my local far right but there are some awkward truths in all this. Especially since I don't think I have ever seen a single comment from them that fundamentally goes against the idea of socialized medicine. To me claiming that this is far left concept is simply absurd. To me this is as if you claim that police or military are far left policies. There simply isn't any reasons to treat those two separately from socialized medicine. Especially since all 3 are designed to save your life in bad times.


Even the church in US has endless sub-versions while here church as institution is country wide institution that has something like 90+% of all believers under it's belt. What reduces cacophony of opinions and creates calm in this regard. Which can be said to be a conservative value (after all these people believe in the same God). Therefore when people on this forum declare themselves to be conservatives I find that kinda intellectually cringy. Here people that rant against the system and any kind of regulations over and over while offering little in content are people who are seen as trolls and mentally ill people (or as someone that watches too much US stuff). Since no one can be that dumb that it is even against the basics. While my local right wing parties are often seen as generally anti-entrepreneurial in American approach to politics. What is kinda exactly since they are conservative, and conservative kinda implies that no everyone can do just about whatever they want. Since that policy allows structure that actually genuinely conserves. While US somehow managed to twist all of this inside and out through history.


Food for thought.

 

[The Cat]

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

They were a pretty dope crew. I mean we are talking about building longer tables and less walls, right? That table should include people like street gangs of Appalachian whites and The Black Panthers.

Oh, I saw something about these guys in a documentary. Very inspiring stuff.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Do you think that if there'd been no Trump then there would have been a Bernie government perhaps from real change in government?

I think Hillary would have probably still wound up as the nominee. I don't know if she would have won or not.

 

[The Cat]

Gee why doesnt the GOP want witnesses...?

 

[ceecee]

12 years before the Capitol riot, a warning about extremism was buried

In April 2009, federal intelligence officials issued a prescient warning to police departments around the country.

“Right-wing extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize returning veterans in order to exploit their skills and knowledge derived from military training and combat,” experts in the Department of Homeland Security wrote. “These skills and knowledge have the potential to boost the capabilities of extremists – including lone wolves or small terrorist cells – to carry out violence.”

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Axios: Ukraine's Zelensky calls riots "strong blow" to U.S. democracy

The spectacle of the siege on the Capitol left a deep impression on Zelensky and has caused him to rethink his assumptions about America. "I believe this was a strong blow to democracy of the United States," he said, speaking through an interpreter in an interview at his presidential office.

"We are used to believing that the United States has the ideal democratic institutions, where power is transferred calmly. ... In Ukraine, we lived through two revolutions ... we understood such things can happen in the world.

"But that it could happen in the United States? No one expected that ... I was very worried … I did not want you to have a coup.

"After something like this, I believe it would be very difficult for the world to see the United States as a symbol of democracy."
​

 

[Jaguar]

”Zelensky won the election on the message that, ‘I am not a typical politician — I am the anti-politician, I am the man of the people"

A comedian / actor who then runs as a populist candidate with lines from a populist script: "I am a man of the people!" "I am the anti-politician!" Okay, Donald. I mean Zelensky. And I'm supposed to care what he thinks about my country? I do not.

 

[ceecee]

They stormed the Capitol to overturn the results of an election they didn't vote in - CNN

Despite these apparent pro-Trump views, a county election official in Ohio told CNN that he registered in 2013 but "never voted nor responded to any of our confirmation notices to keep him registered," so he was removed from the voter rolls at the end of 2020 and the state said he was not registered in Ohio. A county clerk in Illinois, where Crowl was once registered, also confirmed he was not an active voter anywhere in the state.

I guarantee that there are people on this forum that never voted and were highly vocal of their support for Trump. Guaranteed. Especially if they railed about the millions who voted for Trump.

I've said before and I'll say it again - people need to feel they have a real stake in their society. Extremists like this all have the identical issues no matter how varied their circumstances were - This is learned and fostered by governmental neglect.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Canadian government classifies Proud Boys as terrorist group


And I wouldn't be surprised if many other countries go in this direction.

 

[ceecee]

Man charged in US Capitol riot worked for FBI, lawyer says

A man who authorities say is a leader of the far-right Oath Keepers militia group and helped to organize a ring of other extremists and led them in the attack last month at the U.S. Capitol has held a top-secret security clearance for decades and previously worked for the FBI, his attorney said Monday.

 

[The Cat]

 

[The Cat]

Man charged in US Capitol riot worked for FBI, lawyer says

The Oath keepers? More like Oath Breaker. You cant do that with your security clearance