Trump vs. Biden

[Red Memories]

Joe Biden’s Problematic Record On Racial Justice Explained

Trump isn't good, but why should we not unite and go third party when this is the guy?

Biden's voting history varies and is inconsistent. To me, that photo is just woke points and damage control...

I wish we had a real candidate.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

You've got the wrong man/boy for sitting in a bunker.

Biden:

Trump:

‘Bunker Boy’: Trump mocked for ‘hiding’ from protesters at White House - National | Globalnews.ca

It doesn't matter at this point even if Biden does decide to bunker up for another lockdown. Trump has screwed himself so royally that it will take him moving mountains to win reelection

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Joe Biden’s Problematic Record On Racial Justice Explained

Trump isn't good, but why should we not unite and go third party when this is the guy?

Biden's voting history varies and is inconsistent. To me, that photo is just woke points and damage control...

I wish we had a real candidate.

Every election there are multiple viable alternatives, but a majority of people collectively decide those candidates have zero chance and resign themselves to playing into the two-party duopoly. It's like a massive self-fulfilling prophecy.

If you lean left, there are options such as the green party, or you can vote for more progressive democrats in primaries if you think they have a better chance of winning in the 2 party circus. If you lean right but find yourself disgusted by the GOP, there's the libertarian party, whose current candidate has endorsed BLM and ending policies such as qualified immunity and civil asset forfeiture. There are options beyond the Greens and Libertarians, they just happen to have better organization and optics than some of the more obscure parties.

We really ideally should have 5 or 6 political parties if we want to best represent all of the various factions that currently resign themselves to supporting the GOP and democrats.

I've usually chosen dems as the lesser of the 2 evils, but I'd love it if there were a viable libertarian socialist party that blended the libertarian emphasis on civil liberty and ending corporate welfare (what we have now is far, far from the free market the GOP claims to support) with the greens' support for universal healthcare (as so many moderate dems have conceded this fight and given up on trying to establish M4A) and environmental policy.

 

[ceecee]

Every election there are multiple viable alternatives, but a majority of people collectively decide those candidates have zero chance and resign themselves to playing into the two-party duopoly. It's like a massive self-fulfilling prophecy.

If you lean left, there are options such as the green party, or you can vote for more progressive democrats in primaries if you think they have a better chance of winning in the 2 party circus. If you lean right but find yourself disgusted by the GOP, there's the libertarian party, whose current candidate has endorsed BLM and ending policies such as qualified immunity and civil asset forfeiture. There are options beyond the Greens and Libertarians, they just happen to have better organization and optics than some of the more obscure parties.

We really ideally should have 5 or 6 political parties if we want to best represent all of the various factions that currently resign themselves to supporting the GOP and democrats.

I've usually chosen dems as the lesser of the 2 evils, but I'd love it if there were a viable libertarian socialist party that blended the libertarian emphasis on civil liberty and ending corporate welfare (what we have now is far, far from the free market the GOP claims to support) with the greens' support for universal healthcare (as so many moderate dems have conceded this fight and given up on trying to establish M4A) and environmental policy.

The DSA has a libertarian socialist caucus. I met several of them, I like much of what they have to say.

DSA Libertarian Socialist Caucus

It's certainly a better option than what is currently offered.

 

[rav3n]

It doesn't matter at this point even if Biden does decide to bunker up for another lockdown.

Why do you keep stating something that's not true? Trump's Bunker boy and Cadet bonespurs of which both clearly evidence his cowardice. For that matter, his racism has roots in cowardice too.

 

[Coriolis]

Joe Biden’s Problematic Record On Racial Justice Explained

Trump isn't good, but why should we not unite and go third party when this is the guy?

Biden's voting history varies and is inconsistent. To me, that photo is just woke points and damage control...

I wish we had a real candidate.

Real candidates are the ones who can get elected. For better or worse, our current electoral system is such that someone who is not the democratic or republican nominee will not get elected. Sure - that isn't good and should change, but it won't, and certainly not in time for the next election. So, a vote for anyone but Biden becomes a vote for Trump, just as a vote for anyone but Clinton did last time. This isn't time to let the perfect be the enemy of the good, or even the mediocre, unless you are trying to ensure four more years of the current charlatan-in-chief.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

"'That's the real issue this time', he said. 'Beating Nixon. It's hard to even guess how much damage those bastards will do if they get in for another four years.'

The argument was familiar, I had even made it myself, here and there, but I was beginning to sense something very depressing about it. How many more of these goddamn elections are we going to have to write off as lame, but 'regrettably necessary' holding actions? And how many more of these stinking double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me and the at least 20 million I tend to agree with the chance to vote for something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils?

Now with another one of these big bogus showdowns looming down on us, I can already pick up the stench of another bummer. I understand, along with a lot of other people, that the big thing this year is beating Nixon. But that was also the big thing, as I recall, twelve years ago in 1960--and as far as I can tell, we've gone from bad to worse to rotten since then, and the outlook is more of the same."
-Hunter S Thompson, Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail

the more things change..

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Why do you keep stating something that's not true? Trump's Bunker boy and Cadet bonespurs of which both clearly evidence his cowardice. For that matter, his racism has roots in cowardice too.

Bunker, basement, living room, whatever.

regarding trump, he's an idiot, because even in his bunker he's probably not wearing a face mask. We very well could end up with Pence taking his place in the election by November.

 

[rav3n]

Bunker, basement, living room, whatever.

But I provided a pic of Biden out and about during the protests, not cowering in a bunker.

regarding trump, he's an idiot, because even in his bunker he's probably not wearing a face mask. We very well could end up with Pence taking his place in the election by November.

Agreed that Trump's an idiot but don't be so quick to state that he wasn't wearing a mask in his hideyhole. Prior to his tour of the Ford factory, he wore a mask and took it off to do the tour because he didn't want the press to see him wearing a mask. Trump's a psychopath.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

But I provided a pic of Biden out and about during the protests, not cowering in a bunker.

Agreed that Trump's an idiot but don't be so quick to state that he wasn't wearing a mask in his hideyhole. Prior to his tour of the Ford factory, he wore a mask and took it off to do the tour because he didn't want the press to see him wearing a mask. Trump's a psychopath.

eh you're right, he's probably wearing the best mask available behind closed doors. But even then, if he keeps going out and doing photo ops and rallies without one, he's basically playing Russian roullette.

 

[rav3n]

eh you're right, he's probably wearing the best mask available behind closed doors. But even then, if he keeps going out and doing photo ops and rallies without one, he's basically playing Russian roullette.

Totally agree. Trump's main business plan is likely in rubles.

 

[Jonny]

 

[Virtual ghost]

Honest question: what are your thoughts on the story that the GOP establishment will try to push Trump out of the race ? I doubt he will quit willingly.

 

[Maou]

Honest question: what are your thoughts on the story that the GOP establishment will try to push Trump out of the race ? I doubt he will quit willingly.

They can't?

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

If they really are trying to push him out, I think it's a concession at this point and they're going to focus on trying to build better optics so the eventual candidate comes out losing gracefully. Whether that means Pence or another candidate is running in Trump's place, they'll probably try to change their tone to use a lot of words like 'unity' and such. Even knowing they likely wouldn't win with Trump dumped, it would become more about PR at this point so the GOP can try to avoid going down in history as a party of divisive rhetoric. Not that the PR efforts would work, but I think they'd be trying to rehabilitate the party to be in a better spot for 2024. The chances of Trump winning are fairly low and I don't see a replacemtn candidate doing any better (possibly would do worse), so the whole thing seems like an attempt to concede early so the party loses with grace, mirroring McCain's handling of the final days of the 2008 election. He knew he was losing and I remember his tone changed quite a bit once Obama soared ahead in the polls, casting himself as a graceful, honorable lost cause candidate, and basically giving zero fucks that Palin was running around screaming conspiracy theories, since by then the damage was already mostly done.

On the other hand, I wonder if this is just an elaborate, desperate stunt to make Biden and his supporters drop their guard and run a lackluster campaign. We saw how badly it went for Clinton when she and her team took for granted they would win. Then I can imagine Trump going to rallies in the days leading up to it boasting about how "everyone wrote me off, even my own party, they said I was dropping out, but here I am still fighting. Rarr fake news establishment rarrr more noise and grumbling rarrr". Trump seems to love portraying himself as the me-against-the-world underdog and it could all be a desperate attempt to cast himself as such in the eyes of voters.

For that matter, it seems more like speculation than anything else coming from GOP insiders. But I can't help feeling like this is all just another PR stunt for Trump, perhaps hoping a wave of supporters will flood him with adoration and requests to keep running. Guy seems to crave validation.

Or maybe he is genuinely afraid of prosecution and this is last ditch effort, hoping Pence will then be elected so he can subsequently be pardoned.

 

[Virtual ghost]

If they really are trying to push him out, I think it's a concession at this point and they're going to focus on trying to build better optics so the eventual candidate comes out losing gracefully. Whether that means Pence or another candidate is running in Trump's place, they'll probably try to change their tone to use a lot of words like 'unity' and such. Even knowing they likely wouldn't win with Trump dumped, it would become more about PR at this point so the GOP can try to avoid going down in history as a party of divisive rhetoric. Not that the PR efforts would work, but I think they'd be trying to rehabilitate the party to be in a better spot for 2024. The chances of Trump winning are fairly low and I don't see a replacemtn candidate doing any better (possibly would do worse), so the whole thing seems like an attempt to concede early so the party loses with grace, mirroring McCain's handling of the final days of the 2008 election.

On the other hand, I wonder if this is just an elaborate, desperate stunt to make Biden and his supporters drop their guard and run a lackluster campaign. We saw how badly it went for Clinton when she and her team took for granted they would win. Then I can imagine Trump going to rallies in the days leading up to it boasting about how "everyone wrote me off, even my own party, they said I was dropping out, but here I am still fighting. Rarr fake news establishment rarrr more noise and grumbling rarrr"

Well, if he leaves his presidency will become a legend, since the presidency wouldn't have a real closure. While if they pick the right young person they probably have quite decent chances against Biden. Since Biden probably works only against Trump. They overlook some personal dirt, Trump endorses the new young charismatic person and says he is too old and ill but remain in the campaign.




There are potential elements for "the story" here.

 

[Virtual ghost]

The RCP polling averages:



Arizona: Biden +4
Florida: Biden +6.8
Iowa: Trump +1.5
Michigan: Biden +8.6
Nevada: Biden +4
New Hampshire: Biden +4.3
North Carolina: Biden +2.2
Ohio: Tie
Pennsylvania: Biden +6
Texas: Trump +2
Virginia: Biden +11
Wisconsin: Biden +6.2



What indicates that Trump has much more of a uphill battle than four years ago. Since some of those places shouldn't be competitive, while some are going quite blue. Plus he is no longer "unknown factor" that worked in his favor the last time.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Well, if he leaves his presidency will become a legend, since the presidency wouldn't have a real closure. While if they pick the right young person they probably have quite decent chances against Biden. Since Biden probably works only against Trump. They overlook some personal dirt, Trump endorses the new young charismatic person and says he is too old and ill but remain in the campaign.




There are potential elements for "the story" here.

god, I just hope it isn't one of his kids replacing him.

 

[Virtual ghost]

god, I just hope it isn't one of his kids replacing him.

I find that quite unlikely since that doesn't really change anything in the sphere of potential gains. The whole point is exactly that there is a certain image reset but with relatively similar talking points.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Alaska poll: Trump +3

What is both competitive and basically within the margin of error. (2016 ended with Trump +15)



In my book if Biden becomes quite involved in Covid response that would basically be a checkmate. Creating the donation program that will provide the money so that the poor can get the masks. Defining concrete measures how to keep the economy afloat. Pushing medical truths into the public discourse. Etc.