Donald Trump's Myers-Briggs Type

[ducks]

It is true. And it does matter. A lot. There are people who think being one-sided is a state of health. It's not. And that was Jung's entire point. He used one-sidedness to explain conflict not only within ourselves, between husbands and wives, but also between countries. Jung wrote "God save me from my friends" referring not only to Isabel Myers, but also anyone else who admired him and completely misunderstood his work.

No, it wasn't just about one-sidedness, though that was PART of it. You're full of shit. And it has started to become evident why people clash so much with you on the forum.

I disagree. Claiming that ESTPs "can be good with Te" is a weak argument formed on the basis of outliers. Under general conditions, Te is an unconscious function that will tax the resources of your regular ESTP.

The basic difference between Ti/Fe and Te/Fi relates to outlook, where the former (Ti/Fe) creates a perspective on the basis of objective conditions, whereas the latter (Te/Fi) validates ethics subjectively. As such, ENTJs reason objectively (Te) to accomplish subjective desires (Fi), while ESTPs inform themselves first (Ti), forming an outside-in approach to their expressed values (Fe). Think of which type will stick with because-I-say-so claims, and the mystery is solved.

ENTJ involves Fi inferior, that is, Fi as the weakest and least conscious of the four most conscious functions.

As I stated above, the Te-Se loop depresses Ni, causing a compulsive focus on action, of getting things done. By contrast, ESTPs will get caught in a Se-Fe loop, expressing histrionics ("love me!") while depressing their Ti.

Beyond that, Trump relies solely on vibe, gut feeling, and a private vision that mustn't be obscured by "outside noise." Neither data (Si) nor data-processing (Ti) but will/desire (Ni) and values (Fi) inform his decision-making.

Typology is not psychoanalysis. And the fastest way to type someone is to consider their interactive style, but since we can't afford that luxury here, we can identify the function axes and move on from there. These two approaches are by far the most efficient.

I don't know if I agree with your generalizations or even know what they mean or if they are even all that useful in typing. But again being ESTP doesn't preclude not having a handle on Te. I know of at least one ESTP that started a multi-million dollar business and after putting an insane amount of energy and work into it, made it successful. I think you're just rationalizing it this way. And it's already easy enough to rationalize almost anything with types.

 

[raskol]

But again being ESTP doesn't preclude not having a handle on Te.

In that case, you are arguing from the vantage point of the outlier. Rather than justifying the type to the person, I prefer identifying the personal characteristics that correlate with a type.

I know of at least one ESTP that started a multi-million dollar business and after putting an insane amount of energy and work into it, made it successful.

ESTPs are common go-getters and doers in the corporate environment. And one can easily confuse them with ENTJs, as both are restless achievers that favor a high-paced environment with a strong focus on results. But if you stick around them, tense and rigid Te dom (Je) will appear very different from a smooth, casual Se dom (Pe).

If you consider Trump's facial features, the grin, snarl, and shark-eyed stare, you'll see xNTJ traits that are found with Cheney, Nixon, and even Churchill.

 

[Jaguar]

No, it wasn't just about one-sidedness, though that was PART of it. You're full of shit. And it has started to become evident why people clash so much with you on the forum.

The mods can deal with your nonsense.

 

[notmyapples]

I was under the impression that at this point, everybody agreed he was an obvious ESTP with most of the debate being about his enneagram type.

 

[raskol]

I was under the impression that at this point, everybody agreed he was an obvious ESTP with most of the debate being about his enneagram type.

Nothing is ever settled. And I'll put Trump down as ENTJ 8w7 sx/so. Feel free to challenge me on that.

Trump is all about power, control, and optics. And if we look at interactive style, he is direct, initiating, and controlling--as is the case with ESTP, ESTJ, and ENFJ. But what sets him apart from ESTP and ENFJ is the function stack. Trump uses Te, not Ti; Fi, not Fe. That leaves ENTJ versus ESTJ, but Trump is clearly not a Si user, which not only applies to a strong memory and exactitude in detail but to a conventional by-the-book approach. Trump relies on hunches and visions which mustn't be obscured by conflicting information or objective moral standards.

 

[notmyapples]

Nothing is ever settled. And I'll put Trump down as ENTJ 8w7 sx/so. Feel free to challenge me on that.

Trump is all about power, control, and optics. And if we look at interactive style, he is direct, initiating, and controlling--as is the case with ESTP, ESTJ, and ENFJ. But what sets him apart from ESTP and ENFJ is the function stack. Trump uses Te, not Ti; Fi, not Fe. That leaves ENTJ versus ESTJ, but Trump is clearly not a Si user, which not only applies to a strong memory and exactitude in detail but to a conventional by-the-book approach. Trump relies on hunches and visions which mustn't be obscured by conflicting information or objective moral standards.

Where do you see Te/Fi?

 

[Jaguar]

Nothing is ever settled.

Exactly what he would say. And does. Or undoes.

 

[raskol]

Where do you see Te/Fi?

As a cognitive process, Ti/Fe regards an outside-in approach to morality, internalizing objective standards. By contrast, Te/Fi validates ethics subjectively (Fi) and justifies personal values through the use of objective reasoning (Te). Te dom also captures blunt, argumentative, and challenging interaction, with the tendency to steamroll past objections.

Visually, we can consider Trump's commanding presence, rigid posture, tense movements, or how he presses his fingertips together and uses his hands in a forceful, powerful, directing manner. Juxtapose that imagery to the fluid movements of a P-lead, bring to mind that he is an ExxJ with a Si blindspot, and the case for ENTJ is quite clear.

 

[notmyapples]

As a cognitive process, Ti/Fe regards an outside-in approach to morality, internalizing objective standards. By contrast, Te/Fi validates ethics subjectively (Fi) and justifies personal values through the use of objective reasoning (Te). Te dom also captures blunt, argumentative, and challenging interaction, with the tendency to steamroll past objections.

Visually, we can consider Trump's commanding presence, rigid posture, tense movements, or how he presses his fingertips together and uses his hands in a forceful, powerful, directing manner. Juxtapose that imagery to the fluid movements of a P-lead, bring to mind that he is an ExxJ with a Si blindspot, and the case for ENTJ is quite clear.

Yes, but as you just said, direct, initiating, and controlling is both ESTP and ENTJ communicative style. Both are blunt, challenging, and have the tendency to steamroll. Those are not points specifically towards Te.

I would also counter by saying that his body language is very typical of a Pe lead. He gestures largely and takes up much of his surrounding area, not closely confined to a certain space in the way Pi users are. And if you watch him carefully, you'll notice that he is almost always swaying back and forth, even when not speaking. His sharp movements are not tense, they are energetic. He cannot keep still which is also the reason for his comically frequent hand gestures. There is not a plan to his movements or an extra punch he is using to get his point across, he simply has to move. That is Se body language.

If you wish to observe ENTJ body language, compare him to interviews that feature Ben Shapiro. He sits still, almost like a statue, and although he uses that similar commanding body language you have listed, it is much more sparing and mainly displayed when he is bringing a concise point to a close. When he makes a movement, it is very decisive and in a way that flows well with his dialect. His limbs move, but his main body is confined to one area. When he is not verbalizing, he does not need to move. That is Te body language.

 

[raskol]

Yes, but as you just said, direct, initiating, and controlling is both ESTP and ENTJ communicative style. Both are blunt, challenging, and have the tendency to steamroll. Those are not points specifically towards Te.

Beyond pointing out the interactive style shared by ESTx and ENxJ, I specified how Trump's traits were indicative of Te dom rather than Se dom, while also pointing out his Si blindspot. And steamrolling is definitely a feature of Te dom.

I would also counter by saying that his body language is very typical of a Pe lead. He gestures largely and takes up much of his surrounding area, not closely confined to a certain space in the way Pi users are.

Descriptive, exaggerated body language is Ne (Pe) while Se (Pe) is smooth and flowing. By contrast, Te (Je) is commanding, forceful, intimidating. Compare Trump's presence to that of either Ronald Reagan or Bill Clinton, both Se dom. Compare and contrast them.

And if you watch him carefully, you'll notice that he is almost always swaying back and forth, even when not speaking. His sharp movements are not tense, they are energetic. He cannot keep still which is also the reason for his comically frequent hand gestures. There is not a plan to his movements or an extra punch he is using to get his point across, he simply has to move. That is Se body language.

Of course it isn't planned; the bulk of our behavior is unconscious. That said, I fundamentally disagree with your conclusion, as I see a stronger correlation with Te-Se than Se-Fe (see details in previous post).

By the way, you never addressed a rationale for the Ti/Fe axis, which ESTP necessitates. Where do you register an auxiliary Ti and tertiary Fe in his interactions?

If you wish to observe ENTJ body language, compare him to interviews that feature Ben Shapiro.

Ben Shapiro is a 4'10'' and 90 lbs sock puppet. If we are to compare movements, let's opt for aged men who are similar in stature, like Winston Churchill. Then you also get the snarling pout and the beaming glare associated with xNTJ features.

 

[notmyapples]

Beyond pointing out the interactive style shared by ESTx and ENxJ, I specified how Trump's traits were indicative of Te dom rather than Se dom, while also pointing out his Si blindspot.

You said that he used Te and had a Si blindspot which are statements, not explanations. I brought up visual typing because your argument centered around it, but if you could give me instances where you believe he used Te/Fi on a cognitive basis, I would be eager to hear.

Descriptive, exaggerated body language is Ne (Pe) while Se (Pe) is smooth and flowing.

Are you arguing he is an Ne user? He absolutely uses descriptive, exaggerated body language.

By the way, you never addressed a rationale for the Ti/Fe axis, which ESTP necessitates.

Because you did not challenge my ESTP typing, you invited me to challenge your ENTJ typing.

Ben Shapiro is a 4'10'' and 90 lbs sock puppet. If we are to compare movements, let's opt for aged men who are similar in stature, like Winston Churchill. Then you also get the snarling pout and the beaming glare associated with xNTJ features.

I don't see how height or weight would affect the movements I described in any significant way. Snarling and glaring are not definitive features to type, facial composition can be the cause for someone's expression appearing in such a way.

 

[raskol]

You said that he used Te and had a Si blindspot which are statements, not explanations.

I thought you had followed the discussion in the thread, at least to some extent. Te dom has been explained repeatedly (see above) and I thought you were aware of Trump's Si blindspot, pertaining to a weak memory and inattention to detail.

I brought up visual typing because your argument centered around it, but if you could give me instances where you believe he used Te/Fi on a cognitive basis, I would be eager to hear.

I have explained it repeatedly. Fi is guided by subjective values, which are articulated by means of objective reasoning (Te). He reciprocates praise and condemnation without further consideration, be it from anonymous online posters or internationally condemned tyrants. Beyond his attention to praise and fame, and contempt for blame and shame, Trump's emotional registry falls squarely in the black-and-white emotional category indicative of weak or inferior Fi. Strong. Bad. Weak. Wrong. Sad. Etc.

Are you arguing he is an Ne user? He absolutely uses descriptive, exaggerated body language.

I was juxtaposing his forceful and commanding features (Te) to the exaggerated and theatrical Ne as well as the smoothly flowing Se.

Because you did not challenge my ESTP typing, you invited me to challenge your ENTJ typing.

Your attention deficit isn't my problem. I have challenged the ESTP typing from my first post, and I am still waiting for someone to argue coherently in favor of Ti/Fe.

I don't see how height or weight would affect the movements I described in any significant way. Snarling and glaring are not definitive features to type, facial composition can be the cause for someone's expression appearing in such a way.

As it happens, Trump expresses the snarl, grin, glare, and deadpan signifying TeNi/NiTe. The fluid, inviting, casual SeTi is nowhere to be seen.

 

[notmyapples]

I thought you had followed the discussion in the thread, at least to some extent. Te dom has been explained repeatedly (see above) and I thought you were aware of Trump's Si blindspot, pertaining to a weak memory and inattention to detail.

I did not. If you have an exact post that details what you have already gone over in depth, direct me to where it is or provide a synopsis of your views. If you welcome that I challenge your views, it's understandable of me to expect that you are willing to explain them.

Weak memory and inattention to detail is a descriptor of all P types, any type lacking Si or even with Si low in it's functional stack. ENTJ's Si blindspot makes them oblivious to their personal discomfort or sensations which is what causes this type to often fall into workaholic tendencies. They have a hard time distinguishing their comforting tastes and appeals, and as such have difficulty taking time out of their day for those things as it clashes with their Ni desire to constantly climb towards a specific long-term goal. Trump has never had trouble turning away from his goals for the sake of personal comfort or enjoyment. He favors Se and doesn't actively use Si, but it is not his blindspot.

I have explained it repeatedly. Fi is guided by subjective values, which are articulated by means of objective reasoning (Te). He reciprocates praise and condemnation without further consideration, be it from anonymous online posters or internationally condemned tyrants. Beyond his attention to praise and fame, and contempt for blame and shame, Trump's emotional registry falls squarely in the black-and-white emotional category indicative of weak or inferior Fi. Strong. Bad. Weak. Wrong. Sad. Etc.

What of this is Fi? Basing your opinions of others on whether or not they favor you is more Fe than anything. It is putting weight on the feelings of other people, not your own subjective judgement. Fi does not care for praise and fame because it is introverted, Fe is the function that places importance on other's judgement.

I was juxtaposing his forceful and commanding features (Te) to the exaggerated and theatrical Ne as well as the smoothly flowing Se.

I stated that his mannerisms are descriptive and exaggerated. You responded saying that was indicative of Ne, but did not disagree with my statement. Do you disagree with me saying his movements are descriptive and exaggerated, or would you agree they are? If you do, following your own logic that would make him an Ne user. Which is it?

Your attention deficit isn't my problem. I have challenged the ESTP typing from my first post, and I am still waiting for someone to argue coherently in favor of Ti/Fe.

Accusing me of having an attention deficit implies that you, at some point, challenged me to explain my typing of him which you did not do. I did not see your first post, I did not respond to your first post. You responded to my post and the only responses you can expect me to read are the ones that directly engage me. Otherwise, if you want me to read back through this entire thread and scour for any word you may have written in your favor, I am not going to do so. It is not my responsibility to piece together your argument for you. If you aren't prepared to discuss the topic of his type with me, say so and we don't have to continue.

As it happens, Trump expresses the snarl, grin, glare, and deadpan signifying TeNi/NiTe. The fluid, inviting, casual SeTi is nowhere to be seen.

If the only argument you provide is anecdotal, there is nothing I am capable of challenging.

 

[Jaguar]

Go to 17:05 and listen to the question from Walters and his answer. He lives in the moment, not the future.

Additionally, to claim he's not detail-oriented is to be incredibly young, or not an American with a TV or the ability to read interviews. Donald has repeatedly spoken about how important details are since the 1980's. Anyone who has listened to his interviews prior to the internet's existence would already know this about him. But for the kids who didn't have that opportunity:

Q: In your view, what's the particular genius of Donald Trump?

A: His building skills. Particularly with the early projects like the Hyatt, which was his first project. He was there every day; he was extremely detail-oriented. Now, almost everybody on every side of the political ledger says he doesn't appear to be detailed as a presidential candidate. But that was really not the case in his early career as a builder and developer; he was extremely focused, as his father was.

Wayne Barrett covered Donald Trump for 40 years. - Vox

Life existed before he became president.

 

[Bush]

Now that we've spent time typing the Tramp, any thoughts on Lady's type?

Which type is most prone to Stockholm syndrome? Because that's her defining trait.

 

[raskol]

If you welcome that I challenge your views, it's understandable of me to expect that you are willing to explain them.

Slow down your reading, so as not to trip over sentences, and revisit my posts above if you're interested in challenging my claim.

ENTJ's Si blindspot makes them oblivious to their personal discomfort or sensations which is what causes this type to often fall into workaholic tendencies.

Si involves much more than that. Regardless, the workaholic feature is best captured by the Te-Se loop, causing an action-oriented obsession. Trump reportedly sleeps 4-5 hours per day, which is verified by his tweeting habits. Furthermore, and contrary to Se dom, Trump believes "exercise is misguided." Like Churchill, Trump conserves energy, albeit believing it is a finite resource.

What of this is Fi?

Values. Actuating subjective values. See above for an explanation of Te/Fi usage (inside-out morality) as opposed to Ti/Fe (outside-in). Also feel free to google and present your case from a different angle.

If the only argument you provide is anecdotal, there is nothing I am capable of challenging.

I displayed basic xNTJ traits as recognized in mainstream cognitive typology, and they also fit your precious Ben Shapiro. Claiming the account to be "anecdotal" is rather bizarre.

That aside, this was yet another squandered opportunity. I'm still waiting for a coherent argument in favor of Ti/Fe.

Go to 17:05 and listen to the question from Walters and his answer. He lives in the moment, not the future.

I'll have to applaud you for presenting a video where an INTJ interviewer (Barbara Walters) faces off with an ENTJ interviewee (Donald Trump). Trump's rigid posture, off-beat expression, shrugs, commanding hand movements, and bluntness are clearly visible vis-à-vis deadpan Walters. Furthermore, saying that one "lives in the moment" is a cliché. I use it all the time, all the while holding back my actual intentions.

As predicted, Trump speaks in generalities and consistently avoids entanglement in details. My favorite part is when he tries to explain why his mounting debt is not a problem. At 7:25 he states that:

I have great assets and the assets are doing very well. Take the Trump Shuttle, take the Shuttle ... Barbara, people owe money far in excess of what their assets are, they have lousy assets. I have great assets. I have the best assets.​

As it happens, 1990 suddenly sounds a lot like 2016. The only time he goes into brief detail is when he claims that his shuttle business was thriving, starting off with 12% and now having 50% (!) of the shuttle flight market, which Walters didn't catch, after which he kept steamrolling (Te) past the controversies. I actually think he and Charlie Sheen share similar approaches in interview situations.

He was there every day; he was extremely detail-oriented. Now, almost everybody on every side of the political ledger says he doesn't appear to be detailed as a presidential candidate. But that was really not the case in his early career as a builder and developer; he was extremely focused, as his father was.

Wayne Barrett covered Donald Trump for 40 years. - Vox

Attention to detail and going by-the-book is what one would expect of a construction site foreman, capturing characteristics pertaining to introverted sensing (xSTJ). However, public statements are not affidavits. And in our particular court, where we examine character traits and cognitive functions, such accounts are as irrelevant as hearsay.

 

[notmyapples]

Your inability to defend any of your points concretely only makes an Se-dom typing look more valid.

Which type is most prone to Stockholm syndrome? Because that's her defining trait.

Based on interviews, I would guess she is ISFJ.

 

[Jaguar]

I'll have to applaud you for presenting a video where an INTJ interviewer (Barbara Walters) faces off with an ENTJ interviewee (Donald Trump). Trump's rigid posture, off-beat expression, shrugs, commanding hand movements, and bluntness are clearly visible vis-à-vis deadpan Walters. Furthermore, saying that one "lives in the moment" is a cliché. I use it all the time, all the while holding back my actual intentions.

As predicted, Trump speaks in generalities and consistently avoids entanglement in details. My favorite part is when he tries to explain why his mounting debt is not a problem. At 7:25 he states that:

I have great assets and the assets are doing very well. Take the Trump Shuttle, take the Shuttle ... Barbara, people owe money far in excess of what their assets are, they have lousy assets. I have great assets. I have the best assets.​

As it happens, 1990 suddenly sounds a lot like 2016. The only time he goes into brief detail is when he claims that his shuttle business was thriving, starting off with 12% and now having 50% (!) of the shuttle flight market, which Walters didn't catch, after which he kept steamrolling (Te) past the controversies. I actually think he and Charlie Sheen share similar approaches in interview situations.

Attention to detail and going by-the-book is what one would expect of a construction site foreman, capturing characteristics pertaining to introverted sensing (xSTJ). However, public statements are not affidavits. And in our particular court, where we examine character traits and cognitive functions, such accounts are as irrelevant as hearsay.

Since you ignored the question posed by Walters at 17:05 as well as his answer there's really no need for us to go any further. I suggest you familiarize yourself with how to categorize types before jumping into type discussions. Shrugging shoulders or perhaps which side of the bed he sleeps or whether or not he picks his nose in public won't exactly be relevant to type. ENTJs are future-oriented. Frankly, I think living life in the moment is a prison.


Good luck.

 

[raskol]

Since you ignored the question posed by Walters at 17:05 as well as his answer there's really no need for us to go any further.

These low-energy takes are quite astonishing. After close to 12 years (!) on TypoC, you're remarkably unable to contribute with relevant posts.

For your information, next generation typology involves visual typing and microexpressions, relying on the unconscious and automatic externalization of our cognitive functions. But we needn't go there. We can consider the interactive style and how it relates to the function pairs.

ENTJs possess the Te/Fi axis while ESTPs express Ti/Fe. I have repeatedly stated how these two differ, and also recommend the site's wiki (or other sources) for the literate participants in the thread. Trump follows a subjective vision, which he justifies through objective reasoning. That is the Te/Fi axis at work. In an unreflecting mode, Te/Fi users readily accept information that confirms their vision, all the while discarding that which counters it. That isn't particular to Trump, but to all types along this axis. By contrast, unreflecting Ti/Fe users accept and conform to social dogma, valuing the opinions of others before their own.

If you, or preferably someone who has the energy and wherewithal, wish to make the case for Ti/Fe, then go ahead.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

SeTi and TeSe can look similar (and yes, the second IS a type, Jung and Meyers and Briggs set a good foundation but didn't have the nuances all hammered out - welcome to the future).