What is the point of the 16-Types?

[ygolo]

and the dichotomies?
and the functions?
and the temperaments?
and the interaction styles?

There is a lot of theory, and I've read and become versed in a lot of it. I even used to debate an awful lot about so-and-so's type on this forum.

But what really is the point?

Is it not that different from a parlour game, or astrology?

Do we actually gain insight about real people by studying these theories?

Here is the basic issue I see. Virtually no one wants to be stereotyped, and limited by the descriptions. However, if they are to have any value at all (beyond, "some people may see it differently" realizations that can happen with just the aid of good communication techniques), the theories must make distinctions.

When I joined this forum, I put my type down as IxxP. I and P are still my strong preferences, but the functions, temperaments, and interaction styles all point to INTP (Ti dom w/ Ne>>Se, Promethean, Behind-the-Scenes). But how is that supposed to help me? When I am able to type someone else, how is that supposed to help?

If we keep our notions about others based on type to ourselves, they can fester, and be quite off the mark, and never challenged or corrected.

However, if we discuss our thoughts, we are invariably going to be talking about stereotypes, which invariably get responses of the form, "but not all A are B" (which are invariably true responses).

So how do we engage in discourse about the theories?

A lot of questions, I know. But I somehow still believe there is a kernel of truth behing all this--the stuff we kinda collectively call Myers-Briggs typing. I have become very disillusioned however. Maybe I just don't want to admit that I wasted several months of reading?

 

[Jeffster]

For me the point is better communication. I've sucked at it most of my life, and reading about this type stuff has given me so much insight into understanding other people's motivations and learning better how to connect with them. It's been totally awesome, I've had such great conversations with people that I otherwise might never have connected at all with, and I've even gained some understanding of people that I used to have a strong dislike for because I couldn't fathom what it was like to think like they do. Now I may still not be able to imagine thinking like an NT, NF, or SJ but I can see more of their views as not being so completely foreign to me.

 

[animenagai]

i agree for the most part with jeffster. i never thought as myself as antisocial or anything like that, but there has been and will be times when i just don't understand where someone is coming from. i mean i can just stop talking and try and get along, but many times i really would not find it too logical. MBTI helps me heaps with this. it also helps when i'm meeting new people.

 

[kelric]

I think that the most important thing for me with the whole typology thing isn't really the specifics - it's the understanding that there are folks out there who I have to try harder to communicate and relate to. It also gives me a bit of a frustration-fighter when someone's *not* giving me any room to be myself - at least it gives me an avenue to understand what might be going on and what approaches might help.

 

[ygolo]

Thanks for your insights guys.

I am curious of any of you would be interested in fleshing out your experiences with examples (I'm not asking for names, just a few more specifics)?

 

[Jeffster]

I am curious of any of you would be interested in fleshing out your experiences with examples (I'm not asking for names, just a few more specifics)?

Here's one example I posted in another thread:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/mbti-enneagram-other-personality-matrices/7534-question-about-nt-nf-sp-sj.html#post284067

For another example. I was looking for a post or more I made about my conversations with one of my co-workers (INFJ), but I guess I have mostly talked about those in the Vent chat, I couldn't really find one quickly. She and I were talking today about how our conversations used to hit a wall very fast because we were so disconnected. It wasn't because either one of us are unfriendly, in fact quite the opposite is true. But both of us I think dismissed the other one pretty quickly as just being too different to have much of a meaningful conversation. We would occasionally have better ones, but they would sometimes end up as arguments or just reach some awkward point where one or both of us would get frustrated and just roll our eyes at the other and drop it. Since re-discovering the personality type stuff a few months ago, and introducing it to my co-worker, we have had tons of great conversations and learned tons more about each other and gained insight to our past relationships, our current ones, and more about other people too. She's read stuff that has helped her better understand some of the actions and words of her husband (ISFJ) as well as me and other co-workers, friends, and family members. It's moved some roadblocks out of the way and allowed us to maybe not get as frustrated by each other or other people of different types. It doesn't mean I'm gonna understand completely what it's like to be NJ, just as she's not gonna fully understand what it's like to be SP, but we can meet each other somewhere in the middle, and connect on our common IF-ness as well as tolerate our differences a little better.

 

[Flush]

I've become much more tolerant.

 

[entropie]

I am beginning to realize that I live in S-world. I never noticed those glasses wearing heads around me all my live, who dont smile, who just seem to function.

I have grown a habit of ignoring them or developing an antipathy against them.

Now that I know something about ISTJ's, I see them from a completly new perspective. I always thought them to be the people, who dont change or grow. But I am becoming to understand that they like change and growth excatly the same way I do. They just approach it more cautious.

While I thought myself to be lost forever in the world of androids. I have gained hope again and see myself more as someone now, who can make some peoples lifes a bit more intresting, if they want me too.

 

[sleepless]

Well, *I* am beginning to realize that everyone should be INFJ.

Seriously though, I am very much into the functions as a way to understand people, myself and others... On the other hand a risk with MBTI and similar systems/theories is that you start indulging in them, getting too much into details and missing out in the big picture. Then it's become a habit as bad as any other, you read tons of stuff but don't actually learn anything new.

(On the other other hand, that is me as an INFJ speaking - in MBTI terms it's my childish Ti "tertiary temptation" blocking my Ni, so maybe it's really an INFJ problem. Still I don't see how indulging in theory can be constructive for anyone.)

 

[disregard]

Well, *I* am beginning to realize that everyone should be INFJ.

:horor:

 

[wolfy]

I've become aware of my need to build extraverted sensing (my auxillary)
How I have over relied on introverted thinking.
Reflecting to decide on my type has helped justed as much as knowing what type I am.
I learnt the most from the functions. The dominant and auxillary and how you use them.

 

[Athenian200]

and the dichotomies?
and the functions?
and the temperaments?
and the interaction styles?

There is a lot of theory, and I've read and become versed in a lot of it. I even used to debate an awful lot about so-and-so's type on this forum.

But what really is the point?

Is it not that different from a parlour game, or astrology?

Do we actually gain insight about real people by studying these theories?

Here is the basic issue I see. Virtually no one wants to be stereotyped, and limited by the descriptions. However, if they are to have any value at all (beyond, "some people may see it differently" realizations that can happen with just the aid of good communication techniques), the theories must make distinctions.

When I joined this forum, I put my type down as IxxP. I and P are still my strong preferences, but the functions, temperaments, and interaction styles all point to INTP (Ti dom w/ Ne>>Se, Promethean, Behind-the-Scenes). But how is that supposed to help me? When I am able to type someone else, how is that supposed to help?

If we keep our notions about others based on type to ourselves, they can fester, and be quite off the mark, and never challenged or corrected.

However, if we discuss our thoughts, we are invariably going to be talking about stereotypes, which invariably get responses of the form, "but not all A are B" (which are invariably true responses).

So how do we engage in discourse about the theories?

A lot of questions, I know. But I somehow still believe there is a kernel of truth behing all this--the stuff we kinda collectively call Myers-Briggs typing. I have become very disillusioned however. Maybe I just don't want to admit that I wasted several months of reading?

I feel exactly like you do, ygolo.

I've basically decided that all MBTI tells us is how we see ourselves, and allows us to tell other people how we see them, relative to a stereotype. It also allows us to discuss possible reasons for some people behaving/believing one thing, and others not doing so. Or even explain why we relate to each other so well. I guess for me, it's become a good conversation topic, because there's so much to talk about, that evokes so many different ideas.

Basically, I'm still here because I can't stop thinking about it.

 

[ygolo]

I feel exactly like you do, ygolo.

I've basically decided that all MBTI tells us is how we see ourselves, and allows us to tell other people how we see them, relative to a stereotype. It also allows us to discuss possible reasons for some people behaving/believing one thing, and others not doing so. Or even explain why we relate to each other so well. I guess for me, it's become a good conversation topic, because there's so much to talk about, that evokes so many different ideas.

Basically, I'm still here because I can't stop thinking about it.

That's why I am here too. I think there are some good points made about being more tolerant, and attempting to use functional analysis to improve general functioning.

Though, in a way, just tacking stock of a lot of difference between people, and simply approaching people with a mind-set that this person is different from me, and has the same level and right to free expression and choice as I do, is enough for tolerance.

If Myers-Briggs was the way people came to see that, then it I think it is a good thing.

I haven't had terribly much luck with functional analysis for personal growth. But the idea the your first function is extroverted (or introverted) while your second is introverted (or extroverted) seems to be a good guide for balance, whether or not the functional analysis itself is accurate.

 

[redacted]

the cool thing about MBTI, or jungian functions, is that you can use one little term to describe an entire set of processing behaviors. it's like a verbal shortcut.

it's also a useful tool for trying to understand people -- i'd say it makes up 10%ish of how i systematize a person. the danger is putting too much weight into it -- stuff like a person's past trauma holds much much more weight than type in terms of understanding their motivations.

(sorry for the convoluted sentences, i'm on some painkillers)

 

[Ilah]

I have been thinking about it a lot lately.

For me it is a tool for self understanding, but it is only one of the tools I use in for self understanding. I think there is a trap in the self understanding though. Each type is only a "best fit" which means your type is not a perfect fit, only the closest type. The trap is to look at all the stuff for your type and assume it all applies to you. The temptation is to convince yourself that something fits even when it doesn't.

I think, in terms of self understand, it is more important to look in terms of the functions, not types. I think the fuction strenght may be more significant than the order. For example if Ti and Fi scores are very close does it matter if you are a T or an F? It comes down to knowing your strenghs and weaknesses.

 

[edcoaching]

Here's a sample of how it's helped me personally (the Bulletin of Psychological Type was looking for stories on how type makes a difference in your life, so this was my entry...

My birthday plans this year were very specific:
• Be up by 5:30 am as usual so I could finish the latest installment of The No. 1 Ladies’ Detective Agency right away.
• Instead of brewing half regular/half decaf coffee, get out the French press pot and make 100% regular coffee to give me that extra jolt so I’d be all set for a good run.
• Head out for a10k run by 6:45 to beat the forecasted high temperatures and humidity for the day. My usual run is a bit more than 5k but fitting in a 10k each birthday is my little, “See, you aren’t all that old…yet” trick.
• Be at the local coffee shop by 9 to take advantage of their birthday treat of a complimentary smoothie and finish a pesky article before 11:30 so I could loaf the rest of the day.

But the night before, the humidity shot up to over 90% and we hadn’t turned on the air conditioner. Our neighbors started shooting off fireworks just after I finally dozed off. A half hour later when the crackers stopped, someone’s car alarm sounded. Then I was hungry, which never happens. As the clock ticked toward midnight, I thought, “I won’t have the energy to run if I get up at 5:30, but if I don’t get up then I won’t be able to read before running and…my birthday is ruined!” I moved to the couch where it’s cooler and heard the clock chime 1, my frustration feeding my insomnia.

Fortunately, a little voice inside me said, Stop being so INFJ. How could being more spontaneous help you out tomorrow (well, actually today but...) I turned off the alarm, because of course the only way to get out for a run would be to get a little more sleep. I reminded myself that the pesky article wasn’t due for another 3 weeks and I didn’t have to do it on my birthday. I could pick up the smoothie any time during the day and didn’t have to sit at the café and work to enjoy it!

How did the day go? I woke up rested at 7:20, made the French press coffee, and noted that a good breeze was blowing. Even though I didn’t start running until 8 and the temperature was climbing, the wind made it tolerable. I decided to make up my mind about distance once I’d finished the first lap around the nature reserve by our house. When I rounded the final turn I took note that my knee wasn’t hurting and I wasn’t all that hot. I went for it and finished the 10k in 1:01. Ten-minute miles, the same pace I’d gone for the last 18 years. Not so old yet.

I did finish the book, had a delightful lunch with my husband, and worked on beading a necklace (a relaxing Sensing activity for this dominant Intuitive), much more of a birthday activity than writing that pesky article.

May knowing your type help you likewise recognize when to use your strengths and when to ditch them in favor of reason, sanity, and a great time!