Westworld (2016)

[Beorn]

 

[Beorn]

I might watch the last 2 or 3 episodes of s1 before s2e1

 

[Totenkindly]

Damn. The level of carnage was incredible.

... "Violent ends" indeed.


(Also, I felt like the superfluous peen shot was done directly to fly in the face of Game of Thrones. But they'll need to show a lot more male parts to catch up to that show's female nudity.)


---



I rewatched all of Season One about 3-4 weeks ago in the space of 3 days. That was pretty great. It's hard to remember all the details when you watch it as it airs over ten weeks.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I rewatched all of Season One about 3-4 weeks ago in the space of 3 days. That was pretty great. It's hard to remember all the details when you watch it as it airs over ten weeks.

What did you think of the new Dolores? They really did a good job setting up the way that character developed. Remember how the pilot ended?

Also, what was that bit about recording guests DNA and experiences? Perhaps that's meant to set up something later in the season.

And where the folks in the lake at the end guests, or hosts? I thought they were hosts, but am I mistaken?

I assume we're going to get more flashbacks from Bernard because it doesn't seem like the narrative fully caught up to speed with him at the beach (which looked like a different beach than at the end, unless I'm wrong about that, too)

 

[Z Buck McFate]

(Haven't read new posts because I'm waiting for several episodes to air before I start watching, so I don't have to wait a week in between episodes).

For anyone who's interested, Sam Harris and Paul Bloom (author of Against Empathy) wrote this piece for NYT: It’s Westworld. What’s Wrong With Cruelty to Robots?

A sentiment I agree with, summed up nicely:

Kant had odd views about animals, seeing them as mere things, devoid of moral value, but he insisted on their proper treatment because of the implications for how we treat one another: “For he who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with men.” We could surely say the same for the treatment of lifelike robots. Even if we could be certain that they weren’t conscious and couldn’t really suffer, their torture would very likely harm the torturer and, ultimately, the other people in his life.​

And they did an interesting podcast together during the first season of the series (an audio podcast can be downloaded at his site - podcast #56, Abusing Delores) :

I listened to this podcast several times, actually, after he first posted it, before I even watched the series. My favorite part of it was (again) where they discussed how the torture harms the torturer, even if we can know the robots don't actually suffer.

eta: Here's a more bite-size fragment of that^ podcast:

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I liked the addition of the bison to the credits. Apparently it's supposed to be a tragic symbol of the American West.

 

[chubber]

So the first episode starts by giving away the end, but now to find out what happened, and probably who got away. And why was Bernard detected as "human" DNA in the lab.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

So the first episode starts by giving away the end, but now to find out what happened, and probably who got away. And why was Bernard detected as "human" DNA in the lab.

Well, it's not like the first season wasn't full of weird playing around with timelines.

 

[ceecee]

Yesss...

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

So they're data mining like Facebook? Timely! I wonder what caused William to have such regrets...I'm sure we don't have the full story yet.

 

[Totenkindly]

Episode 2 -- what a great episode! Some very powerful scenes (the cocktail party is a keeper -- I guessed accurately what was going on there but it was still amazing to watch unfold), and we find out a lot of backstory about the park as well. We find out the gist of what happened to Logan as well. Glad that Talulah Riley (Angela) keeps getting more screen time, I first saw her as the cocktail lounge woman in Inception and she always stuck with me.

Also, two unexpected guest stars. I will mention Peter Mullan (as the old Mr. Delos) up front since most people probably don't recognize him anyway -- he's played a lot of characters over his career, although maybe people remember him from Braveheart as the guy who shows up in the front line and verbally challenges William Wallace about why he should fight and die for him. He also was the star in a psychological horror flick that is a favorite of him called "Session 9" some years back. The other star, you'll easily recognize.

Dolores' history becomes richer and richer as we progress. And I had thought Bernard's backstory was more fabricated... either I missed something or now it sounds like there might actually be some overlap there.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Dolores' history becomes richer and richer as we progress. And I had thought Bernard's backstory was more fabricated... either I missed something or now it sounds like there might actually be some overlap there.

I myself was unsure of that. Last week, I was trying to remember if the stuff with his son actually happened to Arnold, or if that was just made up. I guess they never explicitly said it was real before, but here they seemed to hint at it.

 

[Totenkindly]

So they're data mining like Facebook? Timely! I wonder what caused William to have such regrets...I'm sure we don't have the full story yet.

Yeah, totally. They are doing something with the data... and it's not just behavior, they were culling DNA off the sexbots from visiting humans in the prior episode. Who knows wth they've been doing.

I myself was unsure of that. Last week, I was trying to remember if the stuff with his son actually happened to Arnold, or if that was just made up. I guess they never explicitly said it was real before, but here they seemed to hint at it.

It was scanning to be fictitious but I'd have to rewatch Season 1 to check (or find the right reddit thread!)

EDIT: Oh hey, look at this, a transcript repository that is CURRENT....

A: This is for my son Charlie.
D: You told me a lot about Charlie. I'd like to meet him someday.
A: He's excited to meet you.

Westworld (2016) Season 2 Episode Scripts | SS

Now it seems that maybe at least some of that was actually real. But did the real Charlie die like in Bernard's memories? Or is he still around?

 

[ceecee]

Yeah, totally. They are doing something with the data... and it's not just behavior, they were culling DNA off the sexbots from visiting humans in the prior episode. Who knows wth they've been doing.



It was scanning to be fictitious but I'd have to rewatch Season 1 to check (or find the right reddit thread!)

EDIT: Oh hey, look at this, a transcript repository that is CURRENT....

A: This is for my son Charlie.
D: You told me a lot about Charlie. I'd like to meet him someday.
A: He's excited to meet you.

Westworld (2016) Season 2 Episode Scripts | SS

Now it seems that maybe at least some of that was actually real. But did the real Charlie die like in Bernard's memories? Or is he still around?

That's what I took away from that scene, that Charlie is alive in some form. And Westworld is basically Facebook/Google in park form - collecting data on it's guests entirely unfiltered, unrestrained and honest, plus video and DNA proof. That's also why it's hard to generate any sympathy for the guests being gunned down. The deserve it. This story line is so timely, fantastic episode this week.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

That's what I took away from that scene, that Charlie is alive in some form. And Westworld is basically Facebook/Google in park form - collecting data on it's guests entirely unfiltered, unrestrained and honest, plus video and DNA proof. That's also why it's hard to generate any sympathy for the guests being gunned down. The deserve it. This story line is so timely, fantastic episode this week.

Did they ever confirm last season that Elsie (the dark-haired programmer) is dead? If not, we might see her again.

 

[ceecee]

Did they ever confirm last season that Elsie (the dark-haired programmer) is dead? If not, we might see her again.

Other than seeing Bernard grab her, I never saw or heard anything further.

 

[chubber]

What happened to Felix and Sylvester?

edit: thought this wiki might be useful: Felix Lutz | Westworld Wiki | FANDOM powered by Wikia

 

[chubber]

Not Robert Ford and not Arnold Weber.

He looks like the host emulating Ford's father who we saw in the cottage. So potentially it's Ford's father.

• In the scenes between Dolores and Arnold in episodes 2, 3 & 4 actor Jeffrey Wright portrays Arnold, and the voice over in the beginning of episode one the voice interviewing Dolores is that of Arnold. Since viewers didn't know what Arnold looked like, it was assumed by most that these were scenes between Bernard and Dolores. It is not revealed to Bernard until episode 9 that he is a host replica of Arnold. The scenes with Jeffrey Wright in the Remote Diagnostic Facility were really Dolores' memories from over 34 years ago (when Arnold was still alive).
• Astute viewers, like Vanity Fair's Joanna Robinson, noticed differences in the scenes with 'Bernard' interviewing Dolores.[3] Namely that: Dolores was clothed (Bernard didn't conduct interviews with clothed hosts, but Arnold did); the location was not in the usual Behavior Diagnostic labs (and instead in a different location); most of the voices that Dolores hears in her head, telling her things like "find me" and "remember" are Jeffrey Wright's voice; and 'Bernard' (really Arnold) acted differently with Dolores than he did in other scenes with other hosts (Wright knew that he was playing Arnold in those scenes). Also, in the Escalante RDF scenes between Arnold and Dolores, he wears a black lab coat that we never see Bernard wear in the Mesa Hub. Many viewers, including Robinson, had thought from the very beginning of season one that Bernard might be a host. Other clues were: (1) In the "The Original" we are told that people no longer die of diseases, and yet Charlie died of cancer, and (2) Bernard had not aged at all since his son's death.

Arnold's Pyramid Theory of Creating Consciousness
Arnolds theory of bicameral mind
“ He wanted to create consciousness. He imagined it as a pyramid. See? Memory, improvisation, self-interest. (Bernard: ‘And, at the top?’) Never got there. But, he had a notion of what it might be. He based it on a theory of consciousness called the bicameral mind. The idea that primitive man believed his thoughts to be the voice of the gods. (Bernard: ‘I thought it was debunked.’) As a theory for understanding the human mind, perhaps, but not as a blueprint for building an artificial one. See, Arnold built a version of that cognition in which the hosts heard their programming as an inner monologue, with the hopes that in time, their own voice would take over. It was a way [to] bootstrap consciousness. ”
–Dr. Robert Ford on Arnold

Arnold Weber | Westworld Wiki | FANDOM powered by Wikia

Now have I have to watch season 01 all over again.

 

[chubber]

So after watching Futureworld, the sequel to Westworld. I realise now why the data/DNA mining they did, was to replace world leaders. Similar to when Bernard watched them taking DNA samples of the guests.

Also they replaced most the staff and backend support with hosts. So perhaps Felix is also a host, if not most of them.

Funny how Theresa and Charlotte worked together to backup the data, or 35 years worth of data onto this single host that was already, or rather, deemed unstable and decommissioned. Based on the photo that is supposedly 32 years or 30 years old, and a picture of MiB's wife, when she was young. Well who isn't 30 years ago.

I guess we will see this as maybe the 2nd revolution,as the first one perhaps already happened before?

 

[Beorn]

- - - Updated - - -

So after watching Futureworld, the sequel to Westworld. I realise now why the data/DNA mining they did, was to replace world leaders. Similar to when Bernard watched them taking DNA samples of the guests.

Also they replaced most the staff and backend support with hosts. So perhaps Felix is also a host, if not most of them.

Funny how Theresa and Charlotte worked together to backup the data, or 35 years worth of data onto this single host that was already, or rather, deemed unstable and decommissioned. Based on the photo that is supposedly 32 years or 30 years old, and a picture of MiB's wife, when she was young. Well who isn't 30 years ago.

I guess we will see this as maybe the 2nd revolution,as the first one perhaps already happened before?

bruh... use