Free Speech Discussion

[ceecee]

I don't think this is really a useful point of view to hold. I think everyone should assume communication is possible. Otherwise, it sets up conflict before it even begins, or at least makes conflict more difficult to resolve.

It's not my point of view but it is a point of view held by some. But you won't hear a Trump supporter complain about Trump's behavior because the GOP can ram whatever they want through, that's why they voted for him. But the majority of them don't hide this fact, they're happy to say so. This is what I prefer - that they feel comfortable expressing their views. I like knowing what I'm dealing with.

 

[Ursa]

It's not my point of view but it is a point of view held by some. But you won't hear a Trump supporter complain about Trump's behavior because the GOP can ram whatever they want through, that's why they voted for him. But the majority of them don't hide this fact, they're happy to say so. This is what I prefer - that they feel comfortable expressing their views. I like knowing what I'm dealing with.

Was there a survey conducted that stated as much?

I have some relatives who supported Trump, and his cabinet appointments have since made them think twice. Each person who supported Trump had his or her own reasons, and it is a mistake tinged with bias and condescension to assume that they are all beyond conversation. It's worth a try at any rate.

Regarding the question [MENTION=22178]magpie[/MENTION] has posed, assuming an entire class of people is just going to rationalize to the point of never taking issue with their own candidate is something I would count as not treating conversation participants with dignity.

 

[ceecee]

Was there a survey conducted that stated as much?

I have some relatives who supported Trump, and his cabinet appointments have since made them think twice. Each person who supported Trump had his or her own reasons, and it is a mistake tinged with bias and condescension to assume that they are all beyond conversation. It's worth a try at any rate.

I live in Betsy DeVos red west Michigan. I don't need a survey, people here that voted for Trump say exactly why they voted for Trump. Even the people that dislike what he is now doing are ok because it allows Congress to get what they want accomplished. I never said they were beyond conversation - if I wasn't having a conversation with them, how else would I know this?

 

[Poki]

It's not my point of view but it is a point of view held by some. But you won't hear a Trump supporter complain about Trump's behavior because the GOP can ram whatever they want through, that's why they voted for him. But the majority of them don't hide this fact, they're happy to say so. This is what I prefer - that they feel comfortable expressing their views. I like knowing what I'm dealing with.

I am starting to hear Trump supporters I know complain about him changing things. Its generally people that don't understand the full affect of policies. They just see small pi3fes here and their that they judge the entire thing on. So when things change they are like...wait...I didn't know xyz was part of that.

They would still vote for him again because "hillary"

 

[ceecee]

I am starting to hear Trump supporters I know complain about him changing things. Its generally people that don't understand the full affect of policies. They just see small pi3fes here and their that they judge the entire thing on. So when things change they are like...wait...I didn't know xyz was part of that.

They would still vote for him again because "hillary"

I've heard this too, I've just heard that less than "as long as the legislature can get xyz done..." Plus if people are only listening to and watching media outlets that reinforce this (save Shep Smith who's probably getting fired from Fox as we speak), how would they know differently?

 

[Poki]

I've heard this too, I've just heard that less than "as long as the legislature can get xyz done..." Plus if people are only listening to and watching media outlets that reinforce this (save Shep Smith who's probably getting fired from Fox as we speak), how would they know differently?

My grandma watches ONLY Fox news which is kinda comical to argue with her because she is not arguing with me. She is arguing with her own understanding driven by the perception Fox news displays. Its like I have to bring her into reality...she hears a small subset of words and it's like "oh, playback this argument". Inutitives...pshhh....lmao(tongue in cheek). thankfully I pick up on all of reality and don't get lost in the external perceptional crap.

And these people argue "this is what the liberal news is feeding you"...yeah...lmao. politics

 

[FemMecha]

My grandma watches ONLY Fox news which is kinda comical to argue with her because she is not arguing with me. She is arguing with her own understanding driven by the perception Fox news displays. Its like I have to bring her into reality...she hears a small subset of words and it's like "oh, playback this argument". Inutitives...pshhh....lmao(tongue in cheek). thankfully I pick up on all of reality and don't get lost in the external perceptional crap.

And these people argue "this is what the liberal news is feeding you"...yeah...lmao. politics

Fox News: Scaring grandmas for 20 years and proud.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Milo is on real time with Bill Maher tonight. It should be legit, though I usually am not a fan a Maher.

 

[Mole]

Australia has a vested interest in the success of the United States and so we want to see President Trump succeed, but not if he is found to have been disloyal with the murdering dictator of Russia.

 

[Ursa]

I live in Betsy DeVos red west Michigan. I don't need a survey, people here that voted for Trump say exactly why they voted for Trump. Even the people that dislike what he is now doing are ok because it allows Congress to get what they want accomplished. I never said they were beyond conversation - if I wasn't having a conversation with them, how else would I know this?

You sure as hell need a survey if you are going to make a blanket claim about Trump supporters not complaining. Your above statement neither acknowledges nor mends the flaw in your previous comment.

I do understand your concerns about Trump and DeVos. It also sucks that you live in an area that supports Devos.

I live in the liberal Seattle area, and I once expected any Trump supporters in the area to be very militant and defensive. I was proved wring when I met a Trump supporter working a cashier graveyard shift. I told him I was willIng to listen without judgement, and he beamed and explained his reasons. He returned my goodwill by admitting where he agreed with my philosophy.

IMO, people are not as militant and closed-off as they may be assumed to be, and a little listening and kindness can go a really long way in fostering a good conversation. Sometimes it takes more that one conversation, but it usually turns out well. Based on this I certainly haven't been given reasons to lose hope in Trump supporters in general.

 

[ceecee]

IMO, people are not as militant and closed-off as they may be assumed to be, and a little listening and kindness can go a really long way in fostering a good conversation. Sometimes it takes more that one conversation, but it usually turns out well. Based on this I certainly haven't been given reasons to lose hope in Trump supporters in general.

I am listening to them. I don't believe they are militant overall and I haven't lost hope in them as a whole. I don't quite get why you haven't seen that in either post from me. Many don't like his behavior since the inauguration. What they do like is that the GOP agenda, which every one of them support, can move along, uninhibited. Because of that, they remain supportive of Trump, regardless of his behavior or the behavior of his staff/cabinet. Not every single one, there are some that regret voting for him greatly and they express that but they are the minority of Trump voters that I've talked to.

I'm not hearing this from the media - I'm hearing this directly from Trump voters. I don't know how else to explain that to you. I don't agree with them on Trump, I didn't vote for him and I disagree with much of the GOP agenda but not all. I didn't vote for Hillary either and I didn't do the stupid protest vote. I find the current chaos almost unbearable. The country is a joke and it's being run by a inept clown. But if jobs get created and Wall Street flourishes, win. Same thing happened with Bill Clinton. People can overlook a great deal when the economy is working well.

 

[Jaguar]

Comedian Larry Wilmore tells ‘alt-right’ troll Milo Yiannopoulos to ‘go fuck' himself on Bill Maher's show

 

[SearchingforPeace]

At least Maher is capable of holding a civil discussion with Milo

 

[ceecee]

Comedian Larry Wilmore tells ‘alt-right’ troll Milo Yiannopoulos to ‘go fuck' himself on Bill Maher's show

I watched it and while I support Milo having free speech, it was horrible and backfired on Bill Maher. Milo wasn't there to have a conversation, that isn't what he does. But it's what Bill Maher does so of course it didn't work. I do give him credit for not caving on the backlash of having Milo on though.

 

[Jaguar]

I watched it and while I support Milo having free speech, it was horrible and backfired on Bill Maher. Milo wasn't there to have a conversation, that isn't what he does. But it's what Bill Maher does so of course it didn't work. I do give him credit for not caving on the backlash of having Milo on though.

I think it served him well to have that kid on so people could see firsthand that he makes misleading claims. He's not someone who gives a shit about shooting straight:
Milo Yiannopoulos Fact Check: Are Trans People ‘Disproportionately Involved’ in Sex Crimes?

On a personal note: I think Milo came across as a complete idiot. He once spoke on CNBC and sounded quasi-intelligent, but not on Maher's show.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

At least Maher is capable of holding a civil discussion with Milo

He trolled the shit out of Wilmore.

He couldn't have been more happy when he saw Wilmore lose his shit.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

He trolled the shit out of Wilmore.

He couldn't have been more happy when he saw Wilmore lose his shit.

Wilmore was very triggered....

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Wilmore was very triggered....

Fuck him and his Colbert brand of snide partisan comedy.

 

[SpankyMcFly]

A very mediocre Milo on this one. The triggerings derailed any substantive conversation. Is it that hard to keep your cool? Especially knowing what they are going into?

Milo missed an opportunity that could have reframed the convo, unusual for him.

Nance : You’re comparing Saudi Arabia to Russian Spies? Are you American?
Milo: No.
Nance: Oh, fuck you!

All kinds of ways he could have responded to such blatant xenophobia

 

[ceecee]

A very mediocre Milo on this one. The triggerings derailed any substantive conversation. Is it that hard to keep your cool? Especially knowing what they are going into?

Milo missed an opportunity that could have reframed the convo, unusual for him.

Nance : You’re comparing Saudi Arabia to Russian Spies? Are you American?
Milo: No.
Nance: Oh, fuck you!

All kinds of ways he could have responded to such blatant xenophobia

Since when is telling someone fuck you not free speech? Plus words don't hurt anyone, says Milo.