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Free Speech Discussion

Magic Poriferan

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My grandma watches ONLY Fox news which is kinda comical to argue with her because she is not arguing with me. She is arguing with her own understanding driven by the perception Fox news displays. Its like I have to bring her into reality...she hears a small subset of words and it's like "oh, playback this argument". Inutitives...pshhh....lmao(tongue in cheek). thankfully I pick up on all of reality and don't get lost in the external perceptional crap.

And these people argue "this is what the liberal news is feeding you"...yeah...lmao. politics :doh:

I know exactly what you're talking about. I don't really have anything to add here, except that I gnash my teeth over this behavior (catch word, run script) so much it was nice just to see someone else point it out.
 

Magic Poriferan

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I heard about Milo for a long time before I ever heard from him. It seemed to me like there wasn't much of a reason to bother. But he gets harder and harder to avoid. And I have to say, he was really over-hyped. Behind all of his offensiveness is a giant mediocrity.
 

SpankyMcFly

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Since when is telling someone fuck you not free speech? Plus words don't hurt anyone, says Milo.

I notice you are focusing on the insult. That's neither here nor there frankly. As you saw it didn't phase Milo, he even laughed and responded about how humor could be a bridge.

Perhaps he could have used it as a shining example of how 'rough' humor such as this is something some of those on the left could learn from or as an example of how to respond to offensive free speech. Turn a negative into a positive. Then bridge that into a comment on safe spaces and trigger warnings, etc. Maybe throw out a historic example, appealing to Nance's patriotism to get him to agree. Or maybe point out how this is how they could have responded themselves instead of becoming all triggered.

I'm merely pointing out that Milo was acting kinda weird, he ripostes often and quite well usually.
 

ceecee

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I notice you are focusing on the insult. That's neither here nor there frankly. As you saw it didn't phase Milo, he even laughed and responded about how humor could be a bridge.

Perhaps he could have used it as a shining example of how 'rough' humor such as this is something some of those on the left could learn from or as an example of how to respond to offensive free speech. Turn a negative into a positive. Then bridge that into a comment on safe spaces and trigger warnings, etc. Maybe throw out a historic example, appealing to Nance's patriotism to get him to agree. Or maybe point out how this is how they could have responded themselves instead of becoming all triggered.

I'm merely pointing out that Milo was acting kinda weird, he ripostes often and quite well usually.

I don't invest much thought in Milo but it seemed to me he was acting fairly normal, not weird. He's a flamboyant queen, that's what people want to see.
 

Magic Poriferan

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As far as I've seen, this is every debate with Milo and the ensuing fan response summarized.

Milo: Cats are reptiles.

Opponent: I'm positive cats are mammals.

Milo fans: LOL! Triggered! Poor snowflake fell into the trap.
 

entropie

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As far as I've seen, this is every debate with Milo and the ensuing fan response summarized.

Milo: Cats are reptiles.

Opponent: I'm positive cats are mammals.

Milo fans: LOL! Triggered! Poor snowflake fell into the trap.

If you start imagining the mil fans the forum has you !!!

Who is Milo?
 

SpankyMcFly

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As far as I've seen, this is every debate with Milo and the ensuing fan response summarized.

Milo: Cats are reptiles.

Opponent: I'm positive cats are mammals.

Milo fans: LOL! Triggered! Poor snowflake fell into the trap.

You should totally twitter him that. If you do, would you please share any response with the forum?


:popc1:
 

Magic Poriferan

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You should totally twitter him that. If you do, would you please share any response with the forum?


:popc1:

Why would I do that?

(and I don't have a Twitter account and am not interested in making one)
 

Mole

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Milo and Music

Milo is very successful at what he does. But what does he do?

On one hand he is genuinely intelligent and charming, but what does he do? He creates social excitement. He knows in his bone marrow that we are now all sharing our emotions in real time across the globe. And all he does is successfully play off this. He plays our global emotions like a violin.

We can of course allow our emotions to be played by Milo, or we can quietly disengage our emotions. But why don't we do this? We don't do this because the zeitgeist is on the side of Milo and not on our side. We are conditioned from the moment we wake to the moment we go to sleep by the electronic media to vibrate to global emotion of the moment. We are like a vibrating violin string just waiting to be played by Milo, just waiting for Milo to make the emotional music, to make the vibes. The vibes of Milo which we can't resist, from the warm muzzle of Milo to our warm and open ears.
 

entropie

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Milo is very successful at what he does. But what does he do?

On one hand he is genuinely intelligent and charming, but what does he do? He creates social excitement. He knows in his bone marrow that we are now all sharing our emotions in real time across the globe. And all he does is successfully play off this. He plays our global emotions like a violin.

We can of course allow our emotions to be played by Milo, or we can quietly disengage our emotions. But why don't we do this? We don't do this because the zeitgeist is on the side of Milo and not on our side. We are conditioned from the moment we wake to the moment we go to sleep by the electronic media to vibrate to global emotion of the moment. We are like a vibrating violin string just waiting to be played by Milo, just waiting for Milo to make the emotional music, to make the vibes. The vibes of Milo which we can't resist, from the warm muzzle of Milo to our warm and open ears.

Is Milo the guy you hold 'hands' with?
 

Blackout

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Well does equality even really exist completely?

The civil rights movement has completely turned around and it's more or less become them basically oppressing everyone else whilst no one has any right to actually say anything to or/about them as supposedly you are standing in the way of their "progress"

Watch out for the "anti-fascists" you might end up oppressing them with "identity" politics.


images




fighting for justice!
 

Blackout

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Eerh....I'm not saying I agree with her but obviously the terminology and semantics behind the thing isn't always so clear cut and black&white.
 

Blackout

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Milo is very successful at what he does. But what does he do?

On one hand he is genuinely intelligent and charming, but what does he do? He creates social excitement. He knows in his bone marrow that we are now all sharing our emotions in real time across the globe. And all he does is successfully play off this. He plays our global emotions like a violin.

We can of course allow our emotions to be played by Milo, or we can quietly disengage our emotions. But why don't we do this? We don't do this because the zeitgeist is on the side of Milo and not on our side. We are conditioned from the moment we wake to the moment we go to sleep by the electronic media to vibrate to global emotion of the moment. We are like a vibrating violin string just waiting to be played by Milo, just waiting for Milo to make the emotional music, to make the vibes. The vibes of Milo which we can't resist, from the warm muzzle of Milo to our warm and open ears.

I think he's gone a little too far though at times and I get a sense that he's just honestly playing sides and the like.

He says he's a "classical liberal" but and that he only has temporarily sided with the "alt-right" but yet has publicly called a black actress a "monkey" and the like; so I imagine he probably has his own stake in the whole matter.
 

Mole

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The Pied Piper

I think he's gone a little too far though at times and I get a sense that he's just honestly playing sides and the like.

He says he's a "classical liberal" but and that he only has temporarily sided with the "alt-right" but yet has publicly called a black actress a "monkey" and the like; so I imagine he probably has his own stake in the whole matter.

Milo is intelligent and charming enough to get away with using content to create an exciting emotional context. To focus on his content whether it is classical liberal or alt-right is to miss the whole successful thrust of what he is doing.

He is a global emotional leader, he is our global pied piper.

It is only by applying our emotional intelligence will we be able to get Milo.
 

Lark

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Milo is intelligent and charming enough to get away with using content to create an exciting emotional context. To focus on his content whether it is classical liberal or alt-right is to miss the whole successful thrust of what he is doing.

He is a global emotional leader, he is our global pied piper.

It is only by applying our emotional intelligence will we be able to get Milo.

Good points.

Its exactly what's happening with these so called alt right people, I'm sorry that more people arent willing to be fooled again.
 

erm

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I don't think there's any way to avoid suppressing speech, it's who we allow to suppress speech, and the speech of whom, that varies. I also thinks there's a finite space for speech, so there's zero-sum competition to a degree, and many of the ways speech suppresses other speech is not through anything most of humanity considers virtuous (i.e. truth).

So the usual standard is that larger entities, usually governments, but also certain large companies and societies, like ISPs, aren't allowed to suppress speech, and have to let other entities under their influence suppress/censor themselves instead (not actually possible, since every action they take will suppress someone under their influence). Smaller entities, especially individuals, are often described as expressing freedom (of speech, association etc.) when they suppress their own speech, or others. This often leaves blurred lines for entities in-between, such as universities, as to whether they can suppress/censor or not in various situations.

I think the best way to deal with this issue it to pick an agreed upon metric, and then test that metric against any of the systems you want to apply to speech. So diversity of ideas, truth, personal freedom and similar metrics are often used, and the test is relatively straight forward from there.

I think the worst way to test these metrics is to simply look at the law of a country, since that has little impact on how speech is actually flowing through it (so many countries claim to guarantee free speech, for example, without clarifying, and then outlaw defamation and obscenity to various degrees, enforce intellectual property, and censor parts of internet). The two countries I'm most familiar with on this, the UK and US, whilst being very good relative to a lot of the world, are very deceitful with their definitions of free speech, and regular suppress speech outside of zero-sum necessity, and their own rules of what obscenity, defamation and intellectual property are. They both value different parts of speech, protect it accordingly, and then pretend this makes them superior to other countries who have different values surrounding what speech they try to protect the most.
 

Evo

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Yes, let them march. Hold a counter protest. Have a day of speeches about how they are wrong. Invite them to a debate and ridicule their ridiculous beliefs and show them to be the small minded fools they are.

No matter someone's beliefs, freedom of speech is a right that should be protected.

This

Exactly. Limiting free speech doesn't prevent biggotry. If anything, it spreads it. If you don't agree with what someone is saying, the answer isn't taking away their right to say it. Just think, what happens when that goes the other way and they're taking your rights away? No, the answer is exercising your freedom of speech and countering their views.

And this.
 

Bush

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I'd also be interested in discussing this from a news pov. Do you think news media is obligated to report events "factually," or is that a violation of free speech or an over-simplification?
I think they have an obligation to report the truth, but at the same time I don't think we should make them do it.
 
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