[Fi] Fi, Why Are You So Dependent On Others?

[Starry]

I don't always wallow in the pointlessness of all existence, but when I do, I meditate.

I want you to know that it's working for you MQ. I'm not sure if you feel it yet...but I sure the hell see it. You're doin' it right, son.

 

[Avocado]

I want you to know that it's working for you MQ. I'm not sure if you feel it yet...but I sure the hell see it. You're doin' it right, son.

I'm certainly a bit more level headed. I still cycle, but the highs and lows are not as extreme.

I will say this, though...I have some pretty disturbing thoughts swimming right beneath my regular consciousness, though.

I was checking a lady out at the pharmacy the other day and it crossed my mind to snatch at her neck and rip out her jugular. I would never do that, but it crossed my mind. She wasn't even particularly a mean lady...she was just talking too much.

 

[Starry]

I was checking a lady out at the pharmacy the other day and it crossed my mind to snatch at her neck and rip out her jugular. I would never do that, but it crossed my mind. She wasn't even particularly a mean lady...she was just talking too much.

Would it help any if I told you ^this is a common and seemingly age related (your age) Ne dom complaint? Suddenly experiencing these horrific and/or disturbing images in their minds that are made even more disconcerting by the fact they can't be explained by being assigned to a negative, angry or hateful mood (where are all the folks that questioned my "Ne is terrifying" description now huh? Yah, I'll be "thinking" about all of ya (haha )


I honestly think I just developed my way out of this phase MQ because I absolutely know I had just resigned myself to the belief I was quite likely mad. In other words, I didn't do anything other than all the wrong and unhealthy things e7s do to make everything happyass...but distinctly remember noticing one day and thinking "weird...that thing doesn't happen anymore."

Have you seen the movie Wargames by any chance? You seem like someone that most likely has. The part at the end of the movie when the computer needs to learn there are certain games in where no one ever wins...
The speed at which that computer runs every single scenario through its system reminds me of what Ne is currently doing in your mind and did in mine. It is running every single experience by itself. It will learn what doesn't work. Don't worry.

 

[Avocado]

Would it help any if I told you ^this is a common and seemingly age related (your age) Ne dom complaint? Suddenly experiencing these horrific and/or disturbing images in their minds that are made even more disconcerting by the fact they can't be explained by being assigned to a negative, angry or hateful mood (where are all the folks that questioned my "Ne is terrifying" description now huh? Yah, I'll be "thinking" about all of ya (haha )


I honestly think I just developed my way out of this phase MQ because I absolutely know I had just resigned myself to the belief I was quite likely mad. In other words, I didn't do anything other than all the wrong and unhealthy things e7s do to make everything happyass...but distinctly remember noticing one day and thinking "weird...that thing doesn't happen anymore."

Have you seen the movie Wargames by any chance? You seem like someone that most likely has. The part at the end of the movie when the computer needs to learn there are certain games in where no one ever wins...
The speed at which that computer runs every single scenario through its system reminds me of what Ne is currently doing in your mind and did in mine. It is running every single experience by itself. It will learn what doesn't work. Don't worry.

I loved that movie. Also, its good to know I'm not the only one. I also saw a group of school kids once and thought about chopping them to pieces with a machete, and if something horrible happens, like the time a guy jumped out of a window in front of me and died, my response is hysterical laughter rather than how everybody else responds. That's why I remind myself of the Joker. That, and I give into my urge to help people less than I used to because it never does much good in the long run, any way.

 

[Starry]

I loved that movie. Also, its good to know I'm not the only one. I also saw a group of school kids once and thought about chopping them to pieces with a machete, and if something horrible happens, like the time a guy jumped out of a window in front of me and died, my response is hysterical laughter rather than how everybody else responds. That's why I remind myself of the Joker. That, and I give into my urge to help people less than I used to because it never does much good in the long run, any way.

Yah...^^here's one of a trillion reasons I want to get all the SFJs accurately typed because I don't want anyone to ever say to you again that you aren't an ENFP (but they will and they will also tell you that they have absolutely no idea what you are taking about because they've never experienced the same and possibly that you need some serious help. Perhaps don't share these images publicly or socially but rather privately with someone you trust)

 

[Avocado]

Yah...^^here's one of a trillion reasons I want to get all the SFJs accurately typed because I don't want anyone to ever say to you again that you aren't an ENFP (but they will and they will also tell you that they have absolutely no idea what you are taking about because they've never experienced the same and possibly and that you need some serious help. Perhaps don't share these images publicly or socially but rather privately with someone you trust)

I'm already seen as a little off, so there is that. I also still have a desire to be "good", though my ideas of morality are idiosyncratic and out of sync with the society I find myself in.

 

[Avocado]

I'm already seen as a little off, so there is that. I also still have a desire to be "good", though my ideas of morality are idiosyncratic and out of sync with the society I find myself in.

There is also the part where my fellow teachers-in-training talk about the need to instill a respect for the rules and authority, and I find that idea horrifying. I don't want a class full of obedient slaves. I want rebels who will fight for what they believe in, and spit on authority. Civil Disobedience is preferred.

 

[Avocado]

Interestingly enough, I was taking one of my education classes, and after an hour of staying after the class discussing the implications of each possible outcome of each approach to education that day, the guy revealed to me that he had the same harrowing visions at times. He was the only other guy with an anti-authority bias there. All the other student teachers seemed to want a bunch of obedient lemmings.

 

[OrangeAppled]

I didn't say that other types can't be manipulative. But the motives are different. The Fi type is dependent on others, sometimes to the extent that it can be called a morbid dependency. Manipulation is a way of getting personal needs met in such a way that it does not "offend" those the Fi type depends on.

Dependence is not always type related either.

That sounds more like unhealthy Fe.
I cannot even grasp applying this to a Fi mentality as if definitive. Fi types withdraw and become excessively and harshly critical when stressed. It is written in descriptions. Manipulation and not wanting to offend? Way too subtle for disgruntled Fi, which falls under the grip of Te. What you describe here is Fe under the grip of Ti. The object, once valued and identified with in a personal way that kept it from being exploited, is now devalued as something that's a means to an end (a personal need the Fe type likely repressed...by over-identifying with the object....which can look like dependency in some cases). Fi certainly can go bad, but the pattern is different.

No one can directly respond to the OP because we've dismissed the premise as ranty drivel. It simply is not true. It seems you have some issue in your personal life and want to pin it on an abstraction like cognitive functions. Even the beginning about IxFPs complaining of other types is just silly... People of many types complain about other types. It's in no way exclusive to nor definitive of "Fi".

 

[Forever_Jung]

Mal, no hate here, but it sounds more like you are externalizing your shadow. Otherwise I can't even imagine where you got such a wrongheaded notion about Fi. Anyway, it happens to the best of 'em, no worries. Solitary-Walker was a bright guy, and he used to do this a lot too.

I'm certainly a bit more level headed. I still cycle, but the highs and lows are not as extreme.

I will say this, though...I have some pretty disturbing thoughts swimming right beneath my regular consciousness, though.

I was checking a lady out at the pharmacy the other day and it crossed my mind to snatch at her neck and rip out her jugular. I would never do that, but it crossed my mind. She wasn't even particularly a mean lady...she was just talking too much.

Yo man, semi-young ENTP here and I do a lot of the same stuff. What if I tap dance on that car right now? What if I bash that child's head in with a baseball bat? What if just slap this person in the face in front of their family?

This sort of thing doesn't always arise, but often enough that I do feel guilty at times. It depends on my state of mind. I entertain all sorts of horrific scenarios that just pop into my consciousness, but I don't feel compelled to do any of them, necessarily. I'm 26 and haven't committed a crime yet.

I think our intuition is just more aware of that dark back door of unconsciousness than others, because that's also where we get all our most clever ideas. Thoughts and possibilities float in unbidden, good and bad. I find it's getting better these days though, as my judgment develops, it's like those ideas are naturally screened out.

 

[Allywally]

That sounds more like unhealthy Fe.
I cannot even grasp applying this to a Fi mentality as if definitive. Fi types withdraw and become excessively and harshly critical when stressed. It is written in descriptions. Manipulation and not wanting to offend? Way too subtle for disgruntled Fi, which falls under the grip of Te. What you describe here is Fe under the grip of Ti. The object, once valued and identified with in a personal way that kept it from being exploited, is now devalued as something that's a means to an end (a personal need the Fe type likely repressed...by over-identifying with the object....which can look like dependency in some cases). Fi certainly can go bad, but the pattern is different.



No one can directly respond to the OP because we've dismissed the premise as ranty drivel. It simply is not true. It seems you have some issue in your personal life and want to pin it on an abstraction like cognitive functions. Even the beginning about IxFPs complaining of other types is just silly... People of many types complain about other types. It's in no way exclusive to nor definitive of "Fi".

That's exactly completely well-put and all true. If I ISFPs were better at articulation and abstract thought, we'd say the exact same thing

 

[1487610420]

Clearly a case of mistypitis

 

[ThaumaturgicTheorist]

So apprently homicidal fantasies and tendencies are a sign of intelligence...

No one can directly respond to the OP because we've dismissed the premise as ranty drivel. It simply is not true. It seems you have some issue in your personal life and want to pin it on an abstraction like cognitive functions. Even the beginning about IxFPs complaining of other types is just silly... People of many types complain about other types. It's in no way exclusive to nor definitive of "Fi".

I affirmed the OP then deleted it...

 

[Mal12345]

That sounds more like unhealthy Fe.
I cannot even grasp applying this to a Fi mentality as if definitive. Fi types withdraw and become excessively and harshly critical when stressed. It is written in descriptions. Manipulation and not wanting to offend? Way too subtle for disgruntled Fi, which falls under the grip of Te. What you describe here is Fe under the grip of Ti. The object, once valued and identified with in a personal way that kept it from being exploited, is now devalued as something that's a means to an end (a personal need the Fe type likely repressed...by over-identifying with the object....which can look like dependency in some cases). Fi certainly can go bad, but the pattern is different.

No one can directly respond to the OP because we've dismissed the premise as ranty drivel. It simply is not true. It seems you have some issue in your personal life and want to pin it on an abstraction like cognitive functions. Even the beginning about IxFPs complaining of other types is just silly... People of many types complain about other types. It's in no way exclusive to nor definitive of "Fi".

"No one can directly respond to the OP because we've dismissed the premise as ranty drivel." Actually no. And in fact, your statement makes no sense. Also, if nobody had put their MBTI type under their avatars I would not have been able to identify the type which is the most ranty, and that is Fi.

 

[Starry]

I didn't say that other types can't be manipulative. But the motives are different. The Fi type is dependent on others, sometimes to the extent that it can be called a morbid dependency. Manipulation is a way of getting personal needs met in such a way that it does not "offend" those the Fi type depends on.

I agree with Reborn Relic and OrangeAppled that your description of Fi here appears to fly contrary to all others and appears to misunderstand the very essense of introverted judging and so I'm especially interested in any clarification/examples you can provide including how Ti is dependent and manipulative.

Just to give you an example of my own experience of what I would deem unhealthy Fi... I have feared for sometime now...so much so I am taking active measures not to let myself slip away... that if I don't learn the importance of dependence (interdependence)... I will continue on this fast-track to living in a shanty I've built out of plywood, cardboard and car tires in the middle of fuckin nowheresville. And I will become an animal hoarder I sorta envision but that's neither here nor there.

In order to not eventually hate everyone on the planet...I'm trying to learn how to compromise and manipulate...or rather negotiate.


What am I missing here regarding the true nature of Fi?

 

[Starry]

^^Oh and yah...when did Fi earn a reputation of not wanting to offend?

This is like cutting-edge news that I'd personally like to have broadcasted through the Emergency Alert System frankly. Or if that's too much to ask...just have someone make an official call to my Mom. *in your face Fe Ooooooooo


Is there any chance you are assigning what actually belongs to unhealthy e9 to Fi?

 

[Mal12345]

I agree with Reborn Relic and OrangeAppled that your description of Fi here appears to fly contrary to all others and appears to misunderstand the very essense of introverted judging and so I'm especially interested in any clarification/examples you can provide including how Ti is dependent and manipulative.

Just to give you an example of my own experience of what I would deem unhealthy Fi... I have feared for sometime now...so much so I am taking active measures not to let myself slip away... that if I don't learn the importance of dependence (interdependence)... I will continue on this fast-track to living in a shanty I've built out of plywood, cardboard and car tires in the middle of fuckin nowheresville. And I will become an animal hoarder I sorta envision but that's neither here nor there.

In order to not eventually hate everyone on the planet...I'm trying to learn how to compromise and manipulate...or rather negotiate.


What am I missing here regarding the true nature of Fi?

I don't remember saying anything about the true nature of Fi. And anyway I specified, later on in this thread, that this series is about neurotics. I made one about neurotic Ti and nobody criticized a thing. I made one about Fe and received a lot of complaints. I made one about Te and nobody complained. The only complaints had to do with Fe and Fi threads.

So it's obvious what's going on here.

 

[Poki]

That sounds more like unhealthy Fe.

I cannot even grasp applying this to a Fi mentality as if definitive. Fi types withdraw and become excessively and harshly critical when stressed. It is written in descriptions. Manipulation and not wanting to offend? Way too subtle for disgruntled Fi, which falls under the grip of Te. What you describe here is Fe under the grip of Ti. The object, once valued and identified with in a personal way that kept it from being exploited, is now devalued as something that's a means to an end (a personal need the Fe type likely repressed...by over-identifying with the object....which can look like dependency in some cases). Fi certainly can go bad, but the pattern is different.

No one can directly respond to the OP because we've dismissed the premise as ranty drivel. It simply is not true. It seems you have some issue in your personal life and want to pin it on an abstraction like cognitive functions. Even the beginning about IxFPs complaining of other types is just silly... People of many types complain about other types. It's in no way exclusive to nor definitive of "Fi".

sounds pretty accurate about Fe and Ti. as strong as a Dom Fe can be, they have this backing of dependency and need. it doesnt normally surface, but its ever present.

the same can be said for Te

 

[Allywally]

sounds pretty accurate about Fe and Ti. as strong as a Dom Fe can be, they have this backing of dependency and need. it doesnt normally surface, but its ever present.

the same can be said for Te

I could agree with the statement about Te. Even though there's a need to 'get things done', tasks usually end up being delegated to other people

 

[1487610420]

I don't remember saying anything about the true nature of Fi. And anyway I specified, later on in this thread, that this series is about neurotics. I made one about neurotic Ti and nobody criticized a thing. I made one about Fe and received a lot of complaints. I made one about Te and nobody complained. The only complaints had to do with Fe and Fi threads.

So it's obvious what's going on here.

clearly a byproduct of unbalanced members, due to bad site management