• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Ask me Socionics junk

Jeremy8419

Permabanned
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
771
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
925
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Thank you that helps. I need to spend more time reviewing (at concert right now). The thing is it seems rather foreign at the moment. I think if there was a way to bridge traditional cognitive functions with socionics it would be most helpful to many of us.

That's kinda why I include reference to norms of behavior to cognition. I've been doing this for either a year and a half or two years, and studying it on people irl (as in, I do my thing, don't tell them, then ask them in a "blind" questioning for verification). The only ones who don't match up are the ones who are ill or display many symptoms. This seems to be far higher online. If I have the objective data of my subjective logic on everything, and I translate, then people will reply with a Correct or Incorrect, but having people say these things turns into unintentionally violating them in a way. I don't like doing that to people. Maybe you can say something valuable relating to that though.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,591
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
That's kinda why I include reference to norms of behavior to cognition. I've been doing this for either a year and a half or two years, and studying it on people irl (as in, I do my thing, don't tell them, then ask them in a "blind" questioning for verification). The only ones who don't match up are the ones who are ill or display many symptoms. This seems to be far higher online. If I have the objective data of my subjective logic on everything, and I translate, then people will reply with a Correct or Incorrect, but having people say these things turns into unintentionally violating them in a way. I don't like doing that to people. Maybe you can say something valuable relating to that though.

The thing is that the traditional MBTI and cognitive functions isn't about norms of behavior. It is about habitual patterns of thinking - specifically of perception and judgment. So the system you describe sounds foreign. There is a sequence of most preferred and less preferred way of perception and judgment. That is how MBTI works.
 
Last edited:

Jeremy8419

Permabanned
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
771
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
925
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
The thing is that the traditional MBTI and cognitive functions isn't about norms of behavior. It is about habitual patterns of thinking - specifically of perception and judgment. So the system you describe sounds foreign. There is a sequence of most preferred and less preferred way of perception and judgment. That is how MBTI works.

Yes, but communication of one's thinking is a behavior. If one person out of a thousand says, well that behavior isn't true and doesn't match my cognition, and the remainder say, but that is your behavior...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Jeremy8419

Permabanned
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
771
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
925
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
The thing is that the traditional MBTI and cognitive functions isn't about norms of behavior. It is about habitual patterns of thinking - specifically of perception and judgment. So the system you describe sounds foreign. There is a sequence of most preferred and less preferred way of perception and judgment. That is how MBTI works.

When I say norms of behavior compared to cognition, I mean norms of "behavior compared to cognition." E.g., 98% of people say, "my behavior is X and my cognition is Y," and 2% of people say, "my behavior is X and my cognition is Z." And, oftentimes, the 98% don't understand why the 2% don't realize that the 2% don't have Z behavior, but rather have Y behavior.
 

Punderstorm

Wallflower power!
Joined
Mar 14, 2016
Messages
736
MBTI Type
INxP
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
How do you sociotype people? What elements should you focus on?
 

Jeremy8419

Permabanned
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
771
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
925
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
How do you sociotype people? What elements should you focus on?

Within Socionics there is a statement about how the elements in one's Ego have high differentiation to the elements in one's Id. For example, my Ego is Fi-Ne (Leading-Creative) and my Id is Fe-Ni (Ignoring-Demonstrative), so upon reading descriptions of Fi and Fe, which seemed somewhat muddled together by people operating primarily in Te or Ti, the core difference was like night and day; however, my Super-Ego and Super-Id elements I had to stare at a long while like this -_- to get a firm grasp on the distinction and how they interact to form their macro-element (Te+Ti=Thinking or Matter macro-element).

So, when typing people, most people will find that it is easiest for them to use their Ego elements by having their Id elements fed by society. In example, because I see the world consciously through the lens of my Leading Fi, which is comparisons of emotions, I gather the most information when others extrovert emotions unto the world via Fe, which is objective emotions and also is my Ignoring Function. These objective emotions, or "vibes" in common speak, enter my psyche by my Leading Fi, where they are subjectively compared, on to Creative Ne, where varying possibilities are viewed and a viewpoint reached, on to Role Ti, where the viewpoint is aligned to the logical structure in question, and on even further to Vulnerable Se, where the discrete boundaries of the individual's psyche are experienced (then everything goes in reverse, but that's a separate matter).

Now, this is for EII, which happens to be the Casual-Deterministic Cognition Style of the Humanistic Sphere personality type, and also the Supervisor of the ILE, which is the "type" that Socionics itself is. Utilizing such EII method may take shorter or longer and give a more or less clear view of someone's type, depending on where your "inner EII" resides in your own psyche. However, one's strong functions will, generally, pick up the slack for weaker functions.

When you have determined what the individual appears to be, you're really only partially there as far as finding out what their actual sociotype is. As mentioned previously, this only shows you what element they are currently operating in as though it is indeed their Leading function. You still must consider the Situation in which you determined the element they are currently operating in. Are they "having fun and acting like a kid again" (Super-Id)? Are they confidently assisting society and in a stress-free state (Ego)? Are they super stressed to the max (Vulnerable)? Are they bored or basically on easy autopilot (Id)? Are they tending to the responsibilities they have to themselves and others (Super-Ego)? Etc. For myself, for instance, when at work, I flip-flop between LSI and LII most the time, which has a shared Ti, which is my Role function. When dealing with children I am charged with taking care of, I am generally LSI, which is my Super-Ego of responsibility to others. When saying long-winded lyrical stuff as I did a lot last week on here, I am either IEI or EIE, which is my Id of it being easy, not even trying, and automatic without even thinking. When I take my hammer and nails and go whack stuff together in my backyard and look like a kid with a hollow, plastic Fischer-Price tool set, I'm either SLI or LSE, which is my Super-Id of childish amusement. Etc.

Side-note: I can generally tell who is dual, despite how unhealthy they may be or what element they may be operating in for however many months or years, strictly off of empathy, and it usually happens from a single look. Once you know, you can steer them to a healthier state, simply by by being the most stress-free and genuine "you" that you can be.

Further questions or clarifications?
 

Numbly Aware

I wanna fcken feel right
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
408
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
To be honest, I'm having a very hard time understanding all of this. I know MBTI and cognitive functions very well but not Socionics. Is there a more basic description somewhere?

Socionics is in correlation to MBTI by function stacks. Think as if we referred to each other in functions, instead of "letters".
(Hello, Ni-Fe-Ti-Se)

Same functions, different name:
MBTI.. ENTJ, Te-Ni-Se-Fi = Socionics.. ENTj, Te-Ni-Se-Fi
MBTI.. ENFJ, Fe-Ni-Se-Ti = Socionics.. ENFj, Fe-Ni-Se-Ti
MBTI.. ENTP, Ne-Ti-Fe-Si = Socionics.. ENTp, Ne-Ti-Fe-Si
MBTI.. ENFP, Ne-Fi-Te-Si = Socionics.. ENFp, Ne-Fi-Te-Si
MBTI.. ESTJ, Te-Si-Ne-Fi = Socionics.. ESTj, Te-Si-Ne-Fi
MBTI.. ESFJ, Fe-Si-Ne-Ti = Socionics.. ESFj, Fe-Si-Ne-Ti
MBTI.. ESTP, Se-Ti-Fe-Ni = Socionics.. ESTp, Se-Ti-Fe-Ni
MBTI.. ESFP, Se-Fi-Te-Ni = Socionics.. ESFp, Se-Fi-Te-Ni
MBTI.. ISTJ, Si-Te-Fi-Ne = Socionics.. ISTp, Si-Te-Fi-Ne
MBTI.. ISFJ, Si-Fe-Ti-Ne = Socionics.. ISFp, Si-Fe-Ti-Ne
MBTI.. ISTP, Ti-Se-Ni-Fe = Socionics.. ISTj, Ti-Se-Ni-Fe
MBTI.. ISFP, Fi-Se-Ni-Te = Socionics.. ISFj, Fi-Se-Ni-Te
MBTI.. INTP, Ti-Ne-Si-Fe = Socionics.. INTj, Ti-Ne-Si-Fe
MBTI.. INFP, Fi-Ne-Si-Te = Socionics.. INFj, Fi-Ne-Si-Te
MBTI.. INTJ, Ni-Te-Fi-Se = Socionics.. INTp, Ni-Te-Fi-Se
MBTI.. INFJ, Ni-Fe-Ti-Se = Socionics.. INFp, Ni-Fe-Ti-Se

In short, extroverts share the same letters in socionics as mbti, but introverts only switch the last letter.
 

Numbly Aware

I wanna fcken feel right
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
408
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Thank you for this thread! I don't understand Socionics much, and it's less known than the other type theories (at least in America), so it's nice to have someone who is knowledgeable.

Can you explain what Si is? And can you explain the difference between Fi and Fe? This is obviously Socionics functions.

Socionics is just a mathematical formula.
It's is one of my favorite "personality" theories (most logic based), however, I prefer mbti for "typing." :sherlock: (I might be biased. Lol)
 

Jeremy8419

Permabanned
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
771
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
925
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Socionics is in correlation to MBTI by function stacks. Think as if we referred to each other in functions, instead of "letters".
(Hello, Ni-Fe-Ti-Se)

Same functions, different name:
MBTI.. ENTJ, Te-Ni-Se-Fi = Socionics.. ENTj, Te-Ni-Se-Fi
MBTI.. ENFJ, Fe-Ni-Se-Ti = Socionics.. ENFj, Fe-Ni-Se-Ti
MBTI.. ENTP, Ne-Ti-Fe-Si = Socionics.. ENTp, Ne-Ti-Fe-Si
MBTI.. ENFP, Ne-Fi-Te-Si = Socionics.. ENFp, Ne-Fi-Te-Si
MBTI.. ESTJ, Te-Si-Ne-Fi = Socionics.. ESTj, Te-Si-Ne-Fi
MBTI.. ESFJ, Fe-Si-Ne-Ti = Socionics.. ESFj, Fe-Si-Ne-Ti
MBTI.. ESTP, Se-Ti-Fe-Ni = Socionics.. ESTp, Se-Ti-Fe-Ni
MBTI.. ESFP, Se-Fi-Te-Ni = Socionics.. ESFp, Se-Fi-Te-Ni
MBTI.. ISTJ, Si-Te-Fi-Ne = Socionics.. ISTp, Si-Te-Fi-Ne
MBTI.. ISFJ, Si-Fe-Ti-Ne = Socionics.. ISFp, Si-Fe-Ti-Ne
MBTI.. ISTP, Ti-Se-Ni-Fe = Socionics.. ISTj, Ti-Se-Ni-Fe
MBTI.. ISFP, Fi-Se-Ni-Te = Socionics.. ISFj, Fi-Se-Ni-Te
MBTI.. INTP, Ti-Ne-Si-Fe = Socionics.. INTj, Ti-Ne-Si-Fe
MBTI.. INFP, Fi-Ne-Si-Te = Socionics.. INFj, Fi-Ne-Si-Te
MBTI.. INTJ, Ni-Te-Fi-Se = Socionics.. INTp, Ni-Te-Fi-Se
MBTI.. INFJ, Ni-Fe-Ti-Se = Socionics.. INFp, Ni-Fe-Ti-Se

This isn't correct. Having the same name doesn't mean equivalency. If the functions having the same letters in the same order meant the definitions behind them were the same, then the names of the types having the same letters in the same order would mean the definitions behind them are the same as well; so there is a contradiction by going by naming conventions.

Also, you have several more things: 1) type population distributions in Socionics are not the same as MBTI nor studied; 2) Socionics isn't the same form of personality system as MBTI; 3) What you posted is known to be inaccurate in Socionics by empirical study.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,591
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
This isn't correct. Having the same name doesn't mean equivalency. If the functions having the same letters in the same order meant the definitions behind them were the same, then the names of the types having the same letters in the same order would mean the definitions behind them are the same as well; so there is a contradiction by going by naming conventions.

Also, you have several more things: 1) type population distributions in Socionics are not the same as MBTI nor studied; 2) Socionics isn't the same form of personality system as MBTI; 3) What you posted is known to be inaccurate in Socionics by empirical study.

I think that's what you need though. A simple explanation. You are disagreeing without clarifying. If you want to say the functions are defined differently, then explain how they are different. These are the descriptions I wrote up based on reading stuff from a bunch of people.

Typology Central Wiki Main Page - Typology Wiki

What is different in Socionics?
 

Forever

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 30, 2013
Messages
8,551
MBTI Type
NiFi
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
@highlander I too, have a difficult time understanding him even when he simplified it.
@Jeremy8419 have you considered the mbti type INTP?
 

Jeremy8419

Permabanned
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
771
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
925
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I think that's what you need though. A simple explanation. You are disagreeing without clarifying. If you want to say the functions are defined differently, then explain how they are different. These are the descriptions I wrote up based on reading stuff from a bunch of people.

Typology Central Wiki Main Page - Typology Wiki

What is different in Socionics?

MBTI function stacking has four spots, socionics has 8. As a result, MBTI function stacking and the functions are a subjective conglomeration of the Socionics elements and functions.

If you read my Elements list on the other page, you will probably find some that sound like "that one sounds backwards compared to MBTI," but they aren't backwards; they are just discrete.

In example: Take someone's emotional state and plot it like a wave (heartbeat or whatever). This is objective emotions put into the world by the individual. The individual is neither happy, sad, mellow, nor stressed, because there is no subjective comparison to the emotional state of another nor to the emotional state of the individual at a different point in time. It's simply an objective emotional state from which others may form their subjective judgments. When I take another objective emotional state of the individual and compare it to the first one, I may make a subjective judgment on which is more rhythmical and higher amplitude and whatever else. I then have a subjective comparison of the individual's emotional state between points in time. I then can compare these over time to those of others over time. Until you have subjective comparisons of emotional states, there is no happy, sad, mellow, stressed, etc., because these things are comparative. The same concepts hold true for the others. An objective object is neither large, small, square, or round; it simply objectively "is." It requires individuals to make subjective comparisons of these objective objects to have such things, and so Te vs Ti becomes more discrete.
 

Jeremy8419

Permabanned
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
771
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
925
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
@highlander I too, have a difficult time understanding him even when he simplified it.
@Jeremy8419 have you considered the mbti type INTP?

I've considered a lot of things; however, I am aware of my strengths. This is my Role+Creative in Socionics, which is in the end-servitude of my Leading, which, consequently, is in the service of my Dual's Suggestive, which, consequently, is in the service of my Dual's Leading, which, consequently, is in the service of my own Suggestive.
 

Forever

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 30, 2013
Messages
8,551
MBTI Type
NiFi
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I've considered a lot of things; however, I am aware of my strengths. This is my Role+Creative in Socionics, which is in the end-servitude of my Leading, which, consequently, is in the service of my Dual's Suggestive, which, consequently, is in the service of my Dual's Leading, which, consequently, is in the service of my own Suggestive.

Do you see how you write though? Sounds like unchecked Ne? Take one part and branch out?
 

Jeremy8419

Permabanned
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
771
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
925
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Do you see how you write though? Sounds like unchecked Ne? Take one part and branch out?

Ah, so now you're not in favor of going around breaking masks?
 

Numbly Aware

I wanna fcken feel right
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
408
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
This isn't correct. Having the same name doesn't mean equivalency. If the functions having the same letters in the same order meant the definitions behind them were the same, then the names of the types having the same letters in the same order would mean the definitions behind them are the same as well; so there is a contradiction by going by naming conventions.

Also, you have several more things: 1) type population distributions in Socionics are not the same as MBTI nor studied; 2) Socionics isn't the same form of personality system as MBTI; 3) What you posted is known to be inaccurate in Socionics by empirical study.

You are right. I cannot just say because they "share" the same functions, they are the equal. However, I have found the functions to be identical. They may use different wording but the same meaning. And yes, Socionics and mbti have different systems... I just like to let others know, they can use a connection. (Also, I did study, lol... or else I wouldn't have given my opinion, in short):dry:

Definitions...
MBTI, Se: Acts on concrete data from here and now. Trusts the present, then lets it go.
vs
Socionics, Se: Extroverted, irrational, and static information element. It is also called Se, F, volitional sensing, or black sensing. Se includes the ability to attain high level of awareness of the physical aspects of one's reality, to know how much physical force or power is latent or required, to be able to accurately estimate properties of material sort. Types that strongly value Se are much more comfortable taking concrete actions to change their physical surroundings. This may at times be perceived as disruptive and abrasive, particularly by Ne-types who feel that abrupt changes in their physical surrounding ruins their balance. In Se-quadras, interaction takes a more blunt and direct forms, resulting in a much strongly impacting physical atmosphere than Si-valuing types prefer. Se-types enjoy discussing possibilities but only if there is concrete gain from it, or it holds the potential to impact the "the real world". Unlike Si, which is about one's subjective sensory experience (how intense or enjoyable it is), Se is about achieving an object of desire. It gives one the ability to influence, bend, and push concrete situations and people in order to achieve such an object, rather than to subjectively assess the situation one is in.

MBTI, Si: Compares present facts and experiences to past experience. Trusts the past. Stores sensory data for future use.
vs
Socionics, Si: Irrational, introverted, and dynamic information element. It is also referred to as Si, S, experiential sensing, or white sensing. Si is associated with the ability to internalize sensations and to experience them in full detail. Si focuses on tangible, direct (external) connections (introverted) between processes (dynamic) happening in one time, i.e. the physical, sensual experience of interactions between objects. This leads to an awareness of internal tangible physical states and how various physical fluctuations or substances are directly transferred between objects, such as motion, temperature, or dirtiness. The awareness of these tangible physical processes consequently leads to an awareness of health, or an optimum balance with one's environment. The individual physical reaction to concrete surroundings is main way we perceive and define aesthetics, comfort, convenience, and pleasure.

MBTI, Ne: Sees possibilities in the external world. Trusts flashes from the unconscious, which can then be shared with others.
vs
Socionics, Ne: Extroverted, irrational, and static information element. It is also called Ne, I, intuition of possibilities, or black intuition.
Ne is generally associated with the ability to see various potentialities and possibilities, create new opportunities and new beginnings, recognize visible potential in others, be aware of different perspectives and viewpoints, rapidly generate associations and draw parallels, and be led by one's intellectual curiosity and stimulate this curiosity in others.
Types that value Ne invest most of their time into discussing various points of view, broad spectrum attitudes, trends, and phenomena, further potential and options some of which may not have happened in actuality, thereby opening up new doors and adding in new tangents to a conversation. They perceive and voice multiple variations and alternative view points, try to mediate between them, and enjoy a lively discussion that would help them settle their uncertainties and provide some grounding. Typical Ne humor juxtaposes and blends seemingly unrelated aspects with elements of unconverntionality and even absurdism.

MBTI, Ni: Looks at consistency of ideas and thoughts with an internal framework. Trusts flashes from the unconscious, which may be hard for others to understand.
vs
Socionics, Ni: Introverted, irrational, and dynamic information element. It is also called Ni, T, temporal intuition, or white intuition. Ni is generally associated with the ability to recognize the unfolding of processes over time (how one event leads to another), have visions of the past and future, over-reliance on mental imagery, seeing intangible hints of trends and relationships between processes or objects. Types that value Ni always like to have in mind a specific plan for how things will develop in the future which is usually based on past trends that they deem likely to recur. To assess these trends they seek to gather information of what's has taken place and transverse the time axis backwards and forwards. Thus, they often devote little time for living "in the now" or "making the best of the present". They generally engage in pure leisure activities only for short periods of time, and even then their leisure activities generally involve mentally and psychologically demanding or competitive aspect.

MBTI, Te: Seeks logic and consistency in the outside world. Concern for external laws and rules.
vs
Socionics, Te: Extroverted logic is an rational, extroverted, and dynamic IM element. It is also referred to as Te, P, algorithmic logic, practical logic, or black logic (because the symbol is black). Extroverted logic deals with the external activity of objects, i.e the how, what and where of events, activity or work, behaviour, algorithms, movement, and actions. The how, what and where of events would be the external activity of events, activity or work would be the external activity of a machine or individual(s) and algorithms describe the external activity of objects.
Since Te perceives objective, factual information outside the subject (external activity) and analyzes the rationale and functionality of what is happening or being done or said. "Quality" to a Te type is how well an object performs the functions for which it was made. A Te type can judge a person to be "effective" if he is able to achieve his purposes without wasting any energy or producing unwanted side effects. So Te types basically evaluate people and things using the same criteria.

MBTI, Ti: Seeks internal consistency and logic of ideas. Trusts his or her internal framework, which may be difficult to explain to others.
vs
Socionics, Ti: Introverted logic is an introverted, rational, and static information element. It is also called Ti, L, structural logic, or white logic.
Ti is generally associated with the ability to recognize logical consistency and correctness, generate and apply classifications and systems, organize systematic and conceptual understanding, see logical connections between things (including logical similarities, differences, and correlations) by means of instinctive feelings of validity, symmetry, and even beauty. It is like common sense, in that it builds on one's expectations of reality, through a somewhat personal, though explicable, understanding of general truths and how they are manifested.
Types that value Ti naturally question the consistency of beliefs that are taken for granted in everyday life. They strongly prefer to make decisions based on their own experience and judgement, as opposed to relying on external authorities for knowledge, which they use only as a last resort. They also have respect for people with clearly defined and internally consistent opinions, believing that a sense of internal certainty is necessary for orienting oneself in life. To these types, one's personal standards of truth are more reliable than public consensus.
They see overly pragmatic views as shallow, and try to limit public discussion of mundane practical matters. They are especially sensitive to redundant information.

MBTI, Fe: Seeks harmony with and between people in the outside world. Interpersonal and cultural values are important.
vs
Socionics, Fe: Extroverted ethics is an extroverted, rational, and dynamic information element. It is also called Fe, E, the ethics of emotions, or black ethics. Fe is generally associated with the ability to recognize and convey (i.e. make others experience) passions, moods, and emotional states, generate excitement, liveliness, and feelings, get emotionally involved in activities and emotionally involve others, recognize and describe emotional interaction between people and groups, and build a sense of community and emotional unity.
Types that value Fe like creating a visible atmosphere of camaraderie with other people. They enjoy a loose atmosphere where anything goes, where people don't have to watch too carefully what they say for fear of offending others. This means these types try not to be too thin-skinned, taking jokes with a grain of salt. However, they are very conscious of the fact that the way something is said is very important to how it will be received, so they tend to add emphasis, embellishments, and exaggerations here and there to keep people engaged. The best way to say something is highly dependent on the situation and the implied purpose of the exchange, so of course levity is not appropriate in some situations.
Even after explosive arguments, these types find it hard to hold grudges, and can tolerate people they in principle don't like, as long as the situation is primarily social and doesn't require too close contact. They prefer misgivings to be out in the open; they believe that the silent treatment is one of the worst things you can do to a person, and only aggravates the underlying problem.

MBTI, Fi: Seeks harmony of action and thoughts with personal values. May not always articulate those values.
vs
Socionics, Fi: Introverted ethics is an introverted, rational, and static information element. It is also called Fi, R, relational ethics, or white ethics. Fi is generally associated with the ability to gain an implicit sense of the subjective 'distance' between two people, and make judgments based off of said thing. Types with valued Fi strive to make and maintain close, personal relationships with their friends and family. They value sensitivity to others' feelings, and occasionally will make their innermost feelings and sentiments known in order to test the possibility of creating closeness with others.
Also, these types convey emotions in terms of how they were affected by something (such as "I did not like that"), rather than an extroverted ethics (Fe) approach that would describe the object itself without clear reference to the subject involved (such as "That sucked"). Much of their decisions are based on how they themselves, or others in relation to them personally, feel in contrast to considering how "the big picture" is affected (such as groups of people).

(More information on socionics and their functions: Socionics - the16types.info - Information Elements: Descriptions by Functions )
 

Numbly Aware

I wanna fcken feel right
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
408
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I think this is what basically turns most people off from Socionics. It's these lengthy, verbose, old-school encyclopedia-like long winded explanations of everything. It's like nobody ever bothered to distill the information to make it palatable to the common layman just scoping out the theory. On top of that it assumes a lot of detailed information like a peer reviewed article in a scientific journal except without the peer-reviewing or science.

I'd venture to say MBTI and Enneagram are much simpler and easier to digest personality systems but still cover what's necessary in the realm of cognition.

I'm still exploring socionics but it's proving a bit annoying. I've asked some people knowledgeable in the field to explain certain things and I'm usually responded to with links to these really boring, long, over-abbreviated articles that extinguish my interest like a fat hooker lathered up in crisco.

I'd love to have a voice conversation with someone about socionics and hear how they interpreted int their own words versus linking me to yet more articles. :doh:

lol, agreed
 

Jeremy8419

Permabanned
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
771
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
925
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
You are right. I cannot just say because they "share" the same functions, they are the equal. However, I have found the functions to be identical. They may use different wording but the same meaning. And yes, Socionics and mbti have different systems... I just like to let others know, they can use a connection. (Also, I did study, lol... or else I wouldn't have given my opinion, in short):dry:

Definitions...
MBTI, Se: Acts on concrete data from here and now. Trusts the present, then lets it go.
vs
Socionics, Se: Extroverted, irrational, and static information element. It is also called Se, F, volitional sensing, or black sensing. Se includes the ability to attain high level of awareness of the physical aspects of one's reality, to know how much physical force or power is latent or required, to be able to accurately estimate properties of material sort. Types that strongly value Se are much more comfortable taking concrete actions to change their physical surroundings. This may at times be perceived as disruptive and abrasive, particularly by Ne-types who feel that abrupt changes in their physical surrounding ruins their balance. In Se-quadras, interaction takes a more blunt and direct forms, resulting in a much strongly impacting physical atmosphere than Si-valuing types prefer. Se-types enjoy discussing possibilities but only if there is concrete gain from it, or it holds the potential to impact the "the real world". Unlike Si, which is about one's subjective sensory experience (how intense or enjoyable it is), Se is about achieving an object of desire. It gives one the ability to influence, bend, and push concrete situations and people in order to achieve such an object, rather than to subjectively assess the situation one is in.

MBTI, Si: Compares present facts and experiences to past experience. Trusts the past. Stores sensory data for future use.
vs
Socionics, Si: Irrational, introverted, and dynamic information element. It is also referred to as Si, S, experiential sensing, or white sensing. Si is associated with the ability to internalize sensations and to experience them in full detail. Si focuses on tangible, direct (external) connections (introverted) between processes (dynamic) happening in one time, i.e. the physical, sensual experience of interactions between objects. This leads to an awareness of internal tangible physical states and how various physical fluctuations or substances are directly transferred between objects, such as motion, temperature, or dirtiness. The awareness of these tangible physical processes consequently leads to an awareness of health, or an optimum balance with one's environment. The individual physical reaction to concrete surroundings is main way we perceive and define aesthetics, comfort, convenience, and pleasure.

MBTI, Ne: Sees possibilities in the external world. Trusts flashes from the unconscious, which can then be shared with others.
vs
Socionics, Ne: Extroverted, irrational, and static information element. It is also called Ne, I, intuition of possibilities, or black intuition.
Ne is generally associated with the ability to see various potentialities and possibilities, create new opportunities and new beginnings, recognize visible potential in others, be aware of different perspectives and viewpoints, rapidly generate associations and draw parallels, and be led by one's intellectual curiosity and stimulate this curiosity in others.
Types that value Ne invest most of their time into discussing various points of view, broad spectrum attitudes, trends, and phenomena, further potential and options some of which may not have happened in actuality, thereby opening up new doors and adding in new tangents to a conversation. They perceive and voice multiple variations and alternative view points, try to mediate between them, and enjoy a lively discussion that would help them settle their uncertainties and provide some grounding. Typical Ne humor juxtaposes and blends seemingly unrelated aspects with elements of unconverntionality and even absurdism.

MBTI, Ni: Looks at consistency of ideas and thoughts with an internal framework. Trusts flashes from the unconscious, which may be hard for others to understand.
vs
Socionics, Ni: Introverted, irrational, and dynamic information element. It is also called Ni, T, temporal intuition, or white intuition. Ni is generally associated with the ability to recognize the unfolding of processes over time (how one event leads to another), have visions of the past and future, over-reliance on mental imagery, seeing intangible hints of trends and relationships between processes or objects. Types that value Ni always like to have in mind a specific plan for how things will develop in the future which is usually based on past trends that they deem likely to recur. To assess these trends they seek to gather information of what's has taken place and transverse the time axis backwards and forwards. Thus, they often devote little time for living "in the now" or "making the best of the present". They generally engage in pure leisure activities only for short periods of time, and even then their leisure activities generally involve mentally and psychologically demanding or competitive aspect.

MBTI, Te: Seeks logic and consistency in the outside world. Concern for external laws and rules.
vs
Socionics, Te: Extroverted logic is an rational, extroverted, and dynamic IM element. It is also referred to as Te, P, algorithmic logic, practical logic, or black logic (because the symbol is black). Extroverted logic deals with the external activity of objects, i.e the how, what and where of events, activity or work, behaviour, algorithms, movement, and actions. The how, what and where of events would be the external activity of events, activity or work would be the external activity of a machine or individual(s) and algorithms describe the external activity of objects.
Since Te perceives objective, factual information outside the subject (external activity) and analyzes the rationale and functionality of what is happening or being done or said. "Quality" to a Te type is how well an object performs the functions for which it was made. A Te type can judge a person to be "effective" if he is able to achieve his purposes without wasting any energy or producing unwanted side effects. So Te types basically evaluate people and things using the same criteria.

MBTI, Ti: Seeks internal consistency and logic of ideas. Trusts his or her internal framework, which may be difficult to explain to others.
vs
Socionics, Ti: Introverted logic is an introverted, rational, and static information element. It is also called Ti, L, structural logic, or white logic.
Ti is generally associated with the ability to recognize logical consistency and correctness, generate and apply classifications and systems, organize systematic and conceptual understanding, see logical connections between things (including logical similarities, differences, and correlations) by means of instinctive feelings of validity, symmetry, and even beauty. It is like common sense, in that it builds on one's expectations of reality, through a somewhat personal, though explicable, understanding of general truths and how they are manifested.
Types that value Ti naturally question the consistency of beliefs that are taken for granted in everyday life. They strongly prefer to make decisions based on their own experience and judgement, as opposed to relying on external authorities for knowledge, which they use only as a last resort. They also have respect for people with clearly defined and internally consistent opinions, believing that a sense of internal certainty is necessary for orienting oneself in life. To these types, one's personal standards of truth are more reliable than public consensus.
They see overly pragmatic views as shallow, and try to limit public discussion of mundane practical matters. They are especially sensitive to redundant information.

MBTI, Fe: Seeks harmony with and between people in the outside world. Interpersonal and cultural values are important.
vs
Socionics, Fe: Extroverted ethics is an extroverted, rational, and dynamic information element. It is also called Fe, E, the ethics of emotions, or black ethics. Fe is generally associated with the ability to recognize and convey (i.e. make others experience) passions, moods, and emotional states, generate excitement, liveliness, and feelings, get emotionally involved in activities and emotionally involve others, recognize and describe emotional interaction between people and groups, and build a sense of community and emotional unity.
Types that value Fe like creating a visible atmosphere of camaraderie with other people. They enjoy a loose atmosphere where anything goes, where people don't have to watch too carefully what they say for fear of offending others. This means these types try not to be too thin-skinned, taking jokes with a grain of salt. However, they are very conscious of the fact that the way something is said is very important to how it will be received, so they tend to add emphasis, embellishments, and exaggerations here and there to keep people engaged. The best way to say something is highly dependent on the situation and the implied purpose of the exchange, so of course levity is not appropriate in some situations.
Even after explosive arguments, these types find it hard to hold grudges, and can tolerate people they in principle don't like, as long as the situation is primarily social and doesn't require too close contact. They prefer misgivings to be out in the open; they believe that the silent treatment is one of the worst things you can do to a person, and only aggravates the underlying problem.

MBTI, Fi: Seeks harmony of action and thoughts with personal values. May not always articulate those values.
vs
Socionics, Fi: Introverted ethics is an introverted, rational, and static information element. It is also called Fi, R, relational ethics, or white ethics. Fi is generally associated with the ability to gain an implicit sense of the subjective 'distance' between two people, and make judgments based off of said thing. Types with valued Fi strive to make and maintain close, personal relationships with their friends and family. They value sensitivity to others' feelings, and occasionally will make their innermost feelings and sentiments known in order to test the possibility of creating closeness with others.
Also, these types convey emotions in terms of how they were affected by something (such as "I did not like that"), rather than an extroverted ethics (Fe) approach that would describe the object itself without clear reference to the subject involved (such as "That sucked"). Much of their decisions are based on how they themselves, or others in relation to them personally, feel in contrast to considering how "the big picture" is affected (such as groups of people).

(More information on socionics and their functions: Socionics - the16types.info - Information Elements: Descriptions by Functions )

That's from sociotype.com.
 
Top