Legitimate Type Me Thread

[Sil]

I think it's safe to say ISTP is probably not applicable.


But it sounds like there might be something to inferior feeling. That seems to be consistent for me across the board.



Regarding enneagram type, I was mostly yanking your chain with the eight comment. I don't know what type I am. If I recall them, I'm not a 2, 4, 7, or 9. Everything outside of that is possible.

As a note, I don't mind discussing the enneagram or talking about my potential type. I just don't internalize any of the system.

 

[chubber]

Yes, I know. I just want to confirm that this is a recognized and accepted source for understanding cognitive functions.

It depends on who you ask. The cognitive purists might have a problem with it. But if it helps you zone in and getting closer to what you feel fits. By all means, but that's my way of thinking. After all, only you can tell us who you are.

 

[chubber]

I think it's safe to say ISTP is probably not applicable.


But it sounds like there might be something to inferior feeling. That seems to be consistent for me across the board.



Regarding enneagram type, I was mostly yanking your chain with the eight comment. I don't know what type I am. If I recall them, I'm not a 2, 4, 7, or 9. Everything outside of that is possible.

As a note, I don't mind discussing the enneagram or talking about my potential type. I just don't internalize any of the system.

Ok and 3w4, 5w6 or 6w5?

 

[Sil]

It depends on who you ask. The cognitive purists might have a problem with it. But if it helps you zone in and getting closer to what you feel fits. By all means, but that's my way of thinking. After all, only you can tell us who you are.

Got it. I was wondering where on the spectrum of reliable source material it fell. What do cognitive purists refer to?

 

[Sil]

Ok and 3w4, 5w6 or 6w5?

Was 3w4 for probably two years. Mostly because it was a point in life where I was going through a small identity crisis and also because I relate strongly to the fear of worthlessness.

Never was a 5w6. It's possible, I suppose. I don't remember what fives are afraid of or motivated by.

Was a 6w5 for approximately a month. I relate to the CP six's need to react against things that make it uncomfortable or afraid. I don't like feeling pinned down by my own emotions, so I tend to push back on them until they are wiped out. I didn't relate to the search for something to depend on (if I recall, sixes feel as if the rug has been ripped out from underneath them and are in a constant state of searching for stability in their lives). I also wouldn't consider myself a fear-based type.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

But there are themes that come with being an ESTJ, and I don't feel align with those. For example, being short-term future focused. Every ESTJ I've interacted with works at this time flow.

By contrast, I work from a 10-20 year perspective. Present and short-term future are barely a blip on the radar except in how they interact with the long future.

I guess it's possible I'm over thinking it, but the differences have been a snag for at least a year now.

If it matters, the two ESTJ's I had relationships with both would talk about retirement. How long they had to work until then, what job they wanted to have when that time came. They were planning that far out, also.

They would also have shorter goals too, but even those shorter term goals aligned with that 20 year plan. It was all related like rungs on a ladder and 10 years later they are where they said they would be at this point. So what you describe is what I saw in those two as well.
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A question about enneagram for you? When you take the test do you get consistently different results but they are consistent in the differences? Example: you test x, y and z each evenly about a third of the time? If so, what comes up?

3 integrates to 6 so there is some correlation with the typing you describe. It does help to realize that core motivation. Does any of the core motivations of the types resonate with you?

 

[EJCC]

Yes, the Naomi Quenk book is a trusted source. Didn't realize you had linked it already, because I only skimmed the links and articles that were posted here...

Considering how much you bolded -- and which parts you bolded -- in the Fe-inferior chapter, I could definitely see you as IxTP.

 

[Sil]

If it matters, the two ESTJ's I had relationships with both would talk about retirement. How long they had to work until then, what job they wanted to have when that time came. They were planning that far out, also.

They would also have shorter goals too, but even those shorter term goals aligned with that 20 year plan. It was all related like rungs on a ladder and 10 years later they are where they said they would be at this point. So what you describe is what I saw in those two as well.
-----

A question about enneagram for you? When you take the test do you get consistently different results but they are consistent in the differences? Example: you test x, y and z each evenly about a third of the time? If so, what comes up?

3 integrates to 6 so there is some correlation with the typing you describe. It does help to realize that core motivation. Does any of the core motivations of the types resonate with you?

It's been years, but if I recall, I get consistently different results. Mostly three and eight, with the occasional one. Always an sp/so though.

I'll have to recheck core motivations. Do you have a source you would recommend I read?

And thank you. That's good to know about the ESTJs you know. I wasn't seeing that sort of long-term thinking in other ESTJs, so it was beginning to make me wonder if maybe there was something larger going on with type.

Granted, all the ESTJs I know who are self typed are much younger than me.

 

[Sil]

Yes, the Naomi Quenk book is a trusted source. Didn't realize you had linked it already, because I only skimmed the links and articles that were posted here...

Considering how much you bolded -- and which parts you bolded -- in the Fe-inferior chapter, I could definitely see you as IxTP.

I think it's safe to say I'm a feeling inferior type. I just read through Ne and Te inferior and neither of those work either.

 

[EcK]

I'm interested in getting some perspective on whether or not ESTJ is the best fit for me.

I've been typed an ESTJ for several years now. I've never connected with any other type over ESTJ

So... you are an 'ESTJ' by MBTI's standards. If you don't find MBTI to be accurate/useful enough for you don't use it.

 

[Sil]

Read through another description of Fe inferior. Again, seems fairly accurate:

For ISTPs (and INTPs), being in the grip often involves workaholism. As T dominants, work (including personal projects and hobbies), comprises a central component of ISTPs’ identity. In doing what they enjoy, ISTPs are naturally very disciplined and thorough. When they are in the grip, however, they become obsessive, perfectionistic, and unable to let go of whatever they are doing. During such times, ISTPs may alienate themselves from others, insisting they need more and more time to themselves (this is why ISTPs often test as Enneagram Fives). They become trapped, functioning only in Judging mode (Ti-Fe), while forgoing the Perceiving functions (Se-Ni) in the middle of their functional stack.

As for all types, the process of slipping into grip experiences is often subtle and insidious. For instance, ISTPs may have a goal in mind for what they want to accomplish that day, only to discover the task much larger than they originally imagined. But because a bigger task poses a greater challenge, they take the bait and see if they can still manage to get it done. The problem, of course, is that this essentially locks them into Judging mode, since any deviation into Se Perceiving will preclude them from accomplishing their goal. This includes closing themselves off to other people, who come to be viewed as intrusions or impediments to their productivity. Consequently, ISTPs who are frequently in the grip may end up ostracizing themselves from other people.

What is interesting is that ISTPs, like other types, can be relatively unaware of falling into a grip experience, rationalizing their obsessiveness as being “efficient” or “productive.” Moreover, since grip experiences are fueled by adrenaline, they can feel “good” at some level, allowing for heightened focus and endurance. At the same time, there is a part of ISTPs that knows they are in trouble. When all they can do is compulsively hurl themselves into their work, a part of them realizes this is unsustainable, unbalanced, and potentially destructive.

To compensate for the isolation involved with grip behavior, ISTPs may “crutch” their inferior Fe through their relationships, which provides the reassurance that external Fe support is available should they need it. This is why so many ISTPs (and INTPs) struggle when it comes to balancing their work and interpersonal relationships.

Slippery & Elusive Emotions

For ISTPs and INTPs alike, their Fe is rather naive and childlike. They may be easily moved by cheesy romantic comedies or sappy love songs, anything that incites their subconscious Fe emotions. They can also be easy targets for “love at first sight” sorts of infatuation. They may be particularly susceptible to being wooed by Feeling types (especially FJs), who can bypass their typical channels of logic and appeal directly to ISTPs’ less conscious Fe.

Because of the inferior position of their Fe, ISTPs struggle to intentionally contact or understand their emotions. It’s not they never experience emotions, but only that their emotions seem to have a mind of their own, coming and going as they please. So even if ISTPs are aware of what emotions are appropriate for a given situation, they often do not “feel” them at the time, engendering a sense of awkwardness or discomfort in emotional situations. They may even experience the desired emotion a few hours later, but it’s almost as though their emotions get “stage fright” when “put on the spot.” To compensate, ISTPs may try to use their Fe to offer the socially-appropriate words. But without experiencing the emotions directly, they often sound clumsy or contrived in their expressions. At times, this can be difficult for their romantic partners, particularly for FJ types, who desire a reciprocation of authentic emotional expression. But because of their Fe stage fright, ISTPs may not experience their feelings “at the right times” or can have trouble expressing them when they are present.

While ISTPs can certainly have trouble contacting their emotions, they usually have little difficulty overriding or detaching from them. Consequently, ISTPs are less apt to struggle with guilt, regret, or shame in the way that other types might. Others may even be surprised how quickly ISTPs can resume “business as usual” after what most would consider tragic or traumatic circumstances. This should not necessarily be viewed as a flaw in the ISTP, however, but merely a reflection of the unconscious nature of their Fe.

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So... you are an 'ESTJ' by MBTI's standards. If you don't find MBTI to be accurate/useful enough for you don't use it.

If it comes to that point, I won't. Right now, I don't think it's the theory, but my understanding of it.

 

[existence]

[MENTION=22628]Sil[/MENTION]

Putting everything together, I think I will pick ENTJ for now, if I was to change this conclusion, it would then be ENFJ pretending pretty well to be ENTJ "overusing" Te. Not impossible of course.

No other type fits. This is the part of the conclusion that doesn't change

I did have a couple questions to you in my last post in this thread, I'd still appreciate it if you answered

It depends on who you ask. The cognitive purists might have a problem with it. But if it helps you zone in and getting closer to what you feel fits. By all means, but that's my way of thinking. After all, only you can tell us who you are.

Quenk is good on a level but a lot of the data is just loose correlations. It's definitely a good source for showing the weakest functions, though. But only if you are able to disregard the loose correlations and focus on the main principles instead.

- - - Updated - - -

But Te feels more like lukewarm water to me. I notice points when I use it, but I wouldn't say it feels like the dominant function in my day-to-day behavior. It feels more like something I fall back on when I need to be serious.

This is one significant statement. Is it specifically Te of ESTJs that's lukewarm to you or Te of ENTJs as well? When you are not serious what are you doing instead?

 

[Sil]

[MENTION=26684]existence[/MENTION]

Oh pickiness is fine - and you've just said now that Fi inferior isn't exactly what you have?

I relate to it regarding behavior patterns (the explosive temperament, feelings of loss of control when overwhelmed with emotions), but what I think is different. ESTJs in the Fi inferior fear being worthless. ENTJs fear that nobody appreciates them. I tend to fall back on thoughts like "how did I let myself get this attached (to get so emotional)?"

When I am upset about something, I have to find a new angle of looking at whatever it is that's bothering me in order to feel better. The way a person might walk around an object to get a different view.

Sure. A close personal friend is not behaving like they normally would at a party. I can tell something is wrong because their behavior doesn't match how they normally act, but I can't tell what's wrong (let's assume there's no obvious deduce-able cause). So I ask them if they are upset.

How would you usually deduce the cause?

I'll run through a list of possible situations I know about their life and think about the words/tone they used when talking about any given one. I'll then create small hypothetical scenarios and run them to see if they explain the events.

For example, if a friend who loves parties is upset at one, I'm going to conclude that it's serious enough of any issue that it's preventing her from improving her mood even in a setting she enjoys. Which means I can cross petty reasons off my list. Then I run through who/what I know that she's had problems with before and also any conversations she had with me where the tone/words/expression indicated something more was going on. At this point I'll generally have a theory, but it's not enough to actually prove anything. It really only confirms the fact that something IS wrong and how serious is might be.

After that, I have to ask.

On an aside, here are the answers to some basic questions that might help illuminate functions:

0. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.


No.

1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.

Here's the photo: https://www.flickr.com/photos/zecaruso/23553809610/in/explore-2015-12-19/

Pattern, computer. Railings, color. Futuristic, cold, detached. Noir. Empty, lonely, isolated.

2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?

I'd laugh and say "you've got to be kidding me." Then get out of the car and see if I can find out what the problem is. If not, call a tow truck and explore "the middle of nowhere" in the meantime.

Internally, I'd be disappointed. But these sorts of disasters also make for funny stories and new opportunities, so the best option is try and resolve it, and if that doesn't work, embrace it and enjoy whatever comes from it.

Assuming this isn't a scenario where the artist I enjoy is likely to die before I see another of their concerts, it's not an end of the world issue.

3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?

Depends on how well I know the driver. If I think the driver will drink, I won't so I can drive.

Regarding a random party with no forewarning...I wouldn't be "unhappy" per se, but I'd think something akin to "brace yourself." It's not something I would take much pleasure in (this could change depending on the party) and would see more as a "get through it and get to the next thing" situation.

4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?

I'll feel compelled to say something. Internally there will be an instantaneous emotional reaction. Then that gets shoved down and I start considering ways to make this person re-consider their claim.

I'll ask questions, introduce inconsistencies (using either real world examples or by taking their logic and applying it to parallel situations where it doesn't work). If the person gets belligerent, I shut up and tune out; I love discussions but I despise arguments. They only exist when people want to be right. There's no educational value, so they're a waste of time. It's easier for me to just abandon the conversation and focus on my my own life than try to argue it out ad nauseum.

5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?

This is a really difficult question.

I take the information and think about it...think about the value of the information, its larger implications, what those implications impact. I think about it on this entire hypothetical, explorative level, and then take what I find and compare it to the reality of me.

I see how my actions should change as a response to this new information.

Then go back to thinking about it some more. I weigh it against other things I value and/or know to be right in other areas. See if it is congruent with those areas or if it also forces changes to other beliefs.

Try and examine how to absorb this new information into the larger picture of how I function and how I function with the world.

Once I decide to adjust my behavior, that's it. It's set in stone. But it can take me a long time of thinking about something both in detail and on a sort of feel-it-out level before I incorporate it.

6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?

Unconsciously there, strengthened by added thought, tested by real world scenarios and hypothetical ones, and backed by emotion.

For example, I have a deep belief in personal responsibility. It was this belief that caused a lot of reactions against others without me knowing exactly why. It wasn't until I was walking through myself and looking for patterns that I realized this belief was at the heart of every major fight I'd had with other people.

So the belief was there even before I was aware of it; I just had to identify and give it a voice.

Once I knew what it was I believed, I played out a lot of situations to test the limits of that belief, where it failed and where it didn't.

If something challenges it...I consider if the whole belief needs to be changed (if it's a challenge that relates to a fundamental flaw in the idea) or if an exception needs to be made in specific circumstances. And if so, I need to know what conditions justify the exception.

7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?

I'm much more flexible. I'm willing to consider something from multiple perspectives before I put my foot down on it. For example, friends often come talk to me when upset about something their friend has said. I'll often ask questions and introduce new perspectives on why the person said X or did X, what might be their justifications, how those values align with my friend and their ideas...hahaha, I basically flip people over from anger to educational retrospection.

The lucky byproduct is that it helps people feel better and feel more assured about why something upset them on a thinking level.

If a friend has a controversial claim, I'm willing to explore it even if I deeply feel that it's wrong. I'll just also try to take my feelings and identify what's triggering them and how it can be utilized in the discussion.

I can be known to be stubborn, but I'm largely the most yielding person in my friendships. I'm willing to accommodate provided I'm not crossed/taken advantage of/stepped on. My friendships wouldn't work if I was as hard-headed as my friends are.

The biggest issue these days is that I can spend too much time thinking on something on not enough time acting on it. It's easy to stay on thought level, hard to bring it to action because it requires active adjustment of self. Also, I can be hesitant to put my foot down if I don't feel I can adequately justify my beliefs.

8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?

Hmmm...I explore it and then decide if it's rational/irrational in its origins. Then keep it in my mind as I move forward; I tend to not rely directly on them though unless I feel VERY strongly compelled.

Strong feelings are triggered in situations where morals/incompetency occur. Also, I can get very reactive if people around me get hysterical or exceptionally emotional about anything. One of my parents was like this growing up. Quick to take a relatively mundane problem and blow it up to enormous proportions. My response would be to shut down the emotional reaction with my own angry response, at which point I've reclaimed control of the scene and can move forward.

Unfortunately, the side effect of that was that I was seen as a very explosive, temperamental person. But eh, there's not much that can be done about that.

9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?

Energize: Talking with people I enjoy about various ideas. Talking with people I enjoy about the future; things we plan to do, why and how. Also discussing things to do together. Also hiking and being outdoors. Travel. And trying new things/experiencing new things.

I enjoy these things because they involve exploring new possibilities. They are creative and stimulating.

Drain: Being a hostess. Activities that are just active enough that you don't have time to think but aren't engaging enough to demand mental stimulation. Example, the gym. HATE the gym.

Hate the first because it means being "on" for a lengthy, steady period of time. Hate the second because reasons explained.

10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?

Primarily emotional reactions to things that deeply matter to me. If I can't find a way to express how I feel in a calm, logical fashion, I shove the emotion down and focus on other things.

A desire to point out when people are being nonsensical or foolish (this only applies to people I care about). I did this up until my early 20s, at which point I realized it never actually has the intended effect of helping a person. So now I don't.

[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] if you can add anything based on these answers, would appreciate it.

 

[existence]

I relate to it regarding behavior patterns (the explosive temperament, feelings of loss of control when overwhelmed with emotions), but what I think is different. ESTJs in the Fi inferior fear being worthless. ENTJs fear that nobody appreciates them. I tend to fall back on thoughts like "how did I let myself get this attached (to get so emotional)?"

Behaviour patterns you mentioned you relate to are not specific to Fi inferior. You have better control over Fi than inferior Fi.

When I am upset about something, I have to find a new angle of looking at whatever it is that's bothering me in order to feel better. The way a person might walk around an object to get a different view.

Sure. A close personal friend is not behaving like they normally would at a party. I can tell something is wrong because their behavior doesn't match how they normally act, but I can't tell what's wrong (let's assume there's no obvious deduce-able cause). So I ask them if they are upset.


I'll run through a list of possible situations I know about their life and think about the words/tone they used when talking about any given one. I'll then create small hypothetical scenarios and run them to see if they explain the events.

For example, if a friend who loves parties is upset at one, I'm going to conclude that it's serious enough of any issue that it's preventing her from improving her mood even in a setting she enjoys. Which means I can cross petty reasons off my list. Then I run through who/what I know that she's had problems with before and also any conversations she had with me where the tone/words/expression indicated something more was going on. At this point I'll generally have a theory, but it's not enough to actually prove anything. It really only confirms the fact that something IS wrong and how serious is might be.

After that, I have to ask.

This all sounds very NF > NT. Your questionnaire you've just posted as well sounds like F > T. Any problem with ENFJ for you? If Fe really doesn't work then try on ENFP. Really don't have any other suggestions now. But I lean towards Ni>Ne so ENFJ>ENFP.

 

[EJCC]

[MENTION=22628]Sil[/MENTION] the vibe I get from your questionnaire is strong N, borderline I/E, and possibly Fe>Fi. (Calling on [MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION] for ESTJ/ENFJ insight?)

Your comment earlier in your post re: ESTJ vs. ENTJ is not correct IME, because both are true for both types.

To contrast with yours, here is one of my questionnaires:

Personal concepts
1. What is beauty? What is love?

I've never been in love, but my experience with infatuation is similar to my experience with being overwhelmed by beauty. As much as one can say what their "type" is, or what sorts of things/people they usually find beautiful, the fact of the matter is that love and the experience of beauty are both irrational and chemical. You can't truly know when or how they'll strike you, or where they'll lead you. Putting a formula to it will probably fail, and that's besides the point anyway.

2. What are your most important values?

My "code" can probably be narrowed down to this: Honor and respect. Exuded, pointed inward, given to others, focused on the humanity and complexity of every person.

3. Do you have any sort of spiritual/religious beliefs, and why do you hold (or don't) those beliefs in the first place?

Religious: I consider myself an Episcopalian, culturally, and I try to attend church as often as I can. The values more common in the liberal/social-justice-focused segment of the church are values that resonate with me. Though I have found many of those same values in many other denominations.
Spiritual: Not sure. I believe in beauty. I believe something greater created us, and everything. I believe there's a reason that we are self-aware beings. I am not sure that I believe that "God is love" -- which is supposedly one of the great tenets of Christianity. It shocks me that some of my other spiritual Christian friends are so certain that God is love. When asked to define God in one word or phrase -- when the majority of my Episcopal group said "love" -- I said "perfection". I relate to the Platonic idea that perfection is always there, hanging over us, but I also believe that we don't have a very good grasp of what that perfection is, let alone how to get to it, or if we can get to it. Perfection could be the opposite of love. Perfection could be the Nietzschian ideal of human nature, for all we know. But if there's one thing we can be certain of, if there is a moral God, it is that God represents everything that is true and perfect and just in the universe. Whatever truth and perfection and justice may be.

4. Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you?

It's necessary, for the security of any societal unit, for there to be an armed force with absolute loyalty to society's ruling forces. Power is the ability to control, directly or indirectly, the thoughts and/or actions of those around you.

Interests
5. What have you had long conversations about? What are your interests? Why?

Deeper topics -- otherwise I'd get bored quickly. Usually those deeper topics are either philosophical, psychological, deeply personal, or all of the above.
I'm interested in the arts, music, politics, and a million other things. Anything of practical intellectual interest to me, anything I'm good at that I find useful and/or fun, and anything that the people in my life are doing that I find interesting or necessary to react to.

6. Interested in health/medicine as a conversation topic? Are you focused on your body?

Maybe if the other person is in some kind of crisis about it, or if they've taken on some sort of project -- e.g. eating healthier. Otherwise, nope. Boring as fuck. And I have zero interest in talking about my own health either (unless, similarly, it's a project I'm doing).

7. What do you think of daily chores?

Can be a pain in the ass, or can be calming and zen. Depends on the chore. I've always loved doing laundry, especially folding laundry, but I have the deepest loathing for doing the dishes.

8. Books or films you liked? Recently read/watched or otherwise. Examples welcome.

Too many to list.
My favorite movies are usually cleverly referential (Tarantino, Scott Pilgrim), exciting and well-executed (Bourne trilogy, Matrix, other good action movies), or moving/heartwarming in an idealistic way (Dave, Frank Capra movies, Good Will Hunting, various sports movies). But plenty of my favorite movies don't fit those categories.
My favorite books -- I dunno. I don't read as much as I should. I like page-turners that are smart and clever, for the most part. Genres vary widely.

9. What has made you cry? What has made you smile? Why?

It takes very little to make me smile. For that matter, it takes very little to make me laugh uproariously. I don't cry very often, though. I cry once out of every six or seven times that I want to cry. I usually want to cry when I'm overwhelmed and/or something has gone very wrong. When I do cry, I never cry for longer than a minute or two.

10. Where do you feel: at one with the environment/a sense of belonging?

In beautiful places, and when doing coordinated and highly focused activities with others -- activities where I have to be "in the moment" and aware of everyone around me. Best places for me to feel one of those two things: hiking, running, singing in a choir, playing fast-paced games with my friends.

Evaluation & Behaviour
11. What have people seen as your weaknesses? What do you dislike about yourself?

Some of my perceived weaknesses are things that I'm mostly fine with, because I see them as a necessary counterbalance to my positive traits. For example, being seen as "meddlesome" or "bossy" is going to come naturally when one is assertive with others and a natural leader. On the other hand, I dislike the things about myself that others see as weaknesses, and that aren't counterbalances to any positive traits. I am too cautious and too deferential to authority. I have a difficult time planning my actions in the long term, and don't listen when people warn me in advance. I am too sensitive to criticism and sometimes I take things too personally. I have a hard time making decisions when I don't have any precedent to go on.

12. What have people seen as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?

I'm reasonable, sensible, and intelligent. I exude expertise and know-how. I lead by example. I've been told I "demand respect" and that even in casual situations, I have a cool-older-sister kind of energy. I am very good at mentoring others. I also am getting pretty good at making people feel at ease.

13. In what areas of your life would you like help?

I need to figure out how to use my friends and family as a support system. (I tend to withdraw from everything when I'm upset. I am getting better about this though.)

I'm also not good at accommodating the emotional needs of others, or even being aware of those needs. Doing that stresses me out, and the stress makes me worry that they're angry with me for something I did wrong without realizing it.

14. Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.

It's almost always when I know what I need to do to move forward, but am avoiding it. My reaction is either to keep avoiding it, or stop spinning my wheels and finally take care of the problem.

People & Interactions
15. What qualities do you most like and dislike in other people? What types do you get along with?

I like people whose values mesh with mine. I like people whose senses of humor, interests, conversational styles, and lifestyles mesh with mine. There's usually a "click".

16. How do you feel about romance/sex? What qualities do you want in a partner?

I'm not in an awesome place right now re: my attitude towards romance. My experience with it was that I completely lost my self-control and good sense, and don't feel like it was worth it in retrospect. There were alarm bells going off 24/7 that I should have listened to. I don't think I can trust myself anymore in romantic situations, so I'm staying away from dating for now.
I guess that when I do start dating again, I'd want someone who meshed well with me in terms of values and lifestyle. I'd want someone who held me in high regard and was really attracted to me -- and I'd want to feel the same way about them.

17. If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?

Giving them the benefits that my parents gave me, but without the same issues and neuroses. I'd be careful and I'd rely to an extent on help from my spouse re: noticing which of those neuroses I'm passing on.

I'd also focus a lot on making sure they feel understood, loved, and intellectually stimulated.

18. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction?

Inwardly I'd feel immediate wariness, anger, and discomfort. Depending on the claim and the beliefs, I'd either ask them questions, call them on it, or ignore them and move on.

19. Describe your relationship to society. How do you see people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.

Society is an unfair game played in a systematic but amoral (or often immoral) fashion. I try to play the game as well as I can without sacrificing my moral code. One prevalent social problem is the degree to which we subjugate certain classes and genders of people while claiming that we are doing no such thing -- gaslighting them into thinking that they deserve to be subjugated.

20. How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them?

If there's a "click", I try them out. If they mesh with my values, I keep them around. I'm a bit less self conscious around them, less wary of potentially offending them. Otherwise it depends on the level of friendship.

21. How do you behave around strangers?

I'm always civil, but I'll either put on my charming face or I'll ignore them, depending on the situation. If a stranger is being rude to me, I will be extremely direct and formal.
(The other day I was waiting for a delayed, empty train, in a huge crowd of people. When the train finally got there, and people started pouring on, a woman behind me started pushing me forward and telling me to "keep going, we're almost there, just go" -- stressed and dictatorial and did I mention she was pushing me? I looked back and said "Calm down. The train is empty." and turned away. Sure enough, there was enough room for everyone on the train...)

 

[existence]

[MENTION=22628]Sil[/MENTION] the vibe I get from your questionnaire is strong N, borderline I/E, and possibly Fe>Fi.

Yeah, I'd just add, I'm pretty sure on E because the Ni seems very much auxiliary.

The way you treat your emotions seems too detached for Fi.

That's one very strong point, yes.

 

[á´…eparted]

[MENTION=22628]Sil[/MENTION] I am 95% certain (if not completely convinced) that you are an ENFJ. I am one, and I am frequently mistaken for an ESTJ, and when I take MBTI tests, more often than not it comes out as ESTJ. But, ESTJ I am not. Hell, even [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] mistook me for one for a brief period when I first showed up here. She's met me in person though and despite her and I sharing a ton in common due to our enneagram, she has seen that I am indeed ENFJ.

To start, I read (skimmed some parts) and pulled some statements that you have said that I either strongly relate to, are either indictive of ENFJ, or both of them:

I'm not bored by facts and details if they are interesting or add to my knowledge. I'd be bored if I don't see how they are relevant/applicable to the big picture.

I like working with people more than not. I like work environments that offer me the opportunity to be both analytical and creative; to troubleshoot problems and then create solutions. Especially the underlined. I love nothing more than being tasked with a challenge others haven't yet found a solution to and trying to make an answer of my own.

No. I never worry about whether or not others thing I have substance or depth. I'm not especially concerned with whether or not people perceive me as unique, individual, different, original, etc.

I would rather be seen as capable, strong, competent, reliable, and a defender.

I prefer to over-prepare than under prepare. Better to inundate someone with information than be caught with your pants down not knowing your stuff.

Yes to everything. It's not as frequent as it used to be (I've curbed this habit with practice and vigilance), but my natural inclination is to take on a thousand projects and underestimate the amount of work each requires. Only to overwhelm myself.

I'm pretty sure this would piss me off; I don't mind being in the thick of it, but it has to be in short, momentous bursts. If it lasted longer than a few days I'd say fuck it and take a break.

Bolded, absolutely. I've realized ultimately you can't really share a feeling. So you're stuck with it by yourself. Words don't do strong feelings justice.

I wish that were true, but it would stress me out to an extent if I didn't have a precedent to work from.

Honestly, I can relate to an extent. If I've found something I'm comfortable with that works (like a food order), I will stick with it until I'm dead or feel randomly compelled to abandon it. Not because I dislike new things, I just don't care. If it works, great; one less thing for me to think about while I focus on other stuff.

Yes. Very aware of how I feel about things. Often ignore it, especially if it feels irrationally-based (as in there are no immediate facts on hand that justify the emotion). Ignore doesn't mean I can act against it...I can't act against the value-feelings I have. But I can control how they are displayed in public, especially how often.

Hmmm...I don't consider myself Fe, although I am somewhat aware of others' emotions. I can pick up how someone feels on a general level (mostly in tone of voice, choice of words). But beyond that, no. Not very good at this. I often have to ask to confirm if people are feeling one way or the other about something. It's not natural.

Yes. But I take facts and build them into patterns? Kind of like taking information and re-arranging it into an organized system of understanding.

Eh, I don't know about an internal logical awareness. I think I notice whether or not there are logical consistencies in ideas, but it's more gut than head based (Si reacts first and then I have to spend some time pouring over the details for my brain to catch up and identify what it is that's rubbing me wrong).

I really could have written a large part of this myself. I am an ENFJ, but I am decidedly not one of those "fluffy bunny love everyone!" people. I'm actually quite harsh, and very aggressive. The thing about Fe, is it's often written in terms of emotional and subjective contexts. However, that's not all it does. It's an external objective function that unlike with Te, is ok with integrating subjective information into decisions and plans. In fact it's essential more often than not, and the Fe user might not even be aware of it. I will certainly take objective proof and explaninations over subjective any day. That will get people on board. Fe wants to be productive and useful, it's hugely important to it. It's tricky at times because Fe can look like Te depending on the individual. Mine sure does, but ultimately I use Fe because I pull on subjective information, and often rely on things that are "self-evident and obvious" that Te seldom ever does.

Despite what you say, I FIRMLY see you on the Ni/Se axis. You describe quite a number of Ni based thought processes all the time, and actually weight on it heavily. You're also very ok with externalizing it, and naturally know how to give it a voice. Which, is why you think it appears to be Ne based. You ultimately always tie Ni contexts down, often very early. Ne doesn't do that. Further, I don't see any evidence of you using Si. Your internal information gathering and thought processes are very abstract, non-linear, and that doesn't bother you. Internals MUST make sense and be linearized for an Si user. You completely understand your internals, but they aren't "organized" per-say.

And then there is this:

Operating entirely out of my head. I know when I'm exhausted and at the end of my rope, I go into what I casually call "machine mode," where almost everything about my personality gets stripped away and I just become a human doing. It's an odd experience...emotions are gone, there's no room for others or an interest in anything except doing the steps needed to complete the task. Once the task is done I go back to myself. But while I'm in that mode of living I'm essentially a non-being. I don't mind it. It's like running on safe start. Life isn't as vivid, but things get done when they need to get done. When I suffer the spiraling non-logic thought process, I'm very aware of it. I tend to indulge it and take it to ridiculous extremes that highlight how nonsensical the thought is. I was worried about moving without a job to a new town awhile back, so I went through the extreme "what ifs" in my head until I reached a "worst-worst outcome" scenario that was so crazy that it became hilarious. I'm not usually governed by the non-logical spiraling thought process just because it's a habit to recognize it for what it is any play it out in my head so that it no longer has any power.

Also, fwiw, my logic and my emotions are constantly observing one another rather than feeding into one another. I observe my emotions at a distance more often than not.

This is SO inferior Ti it hurts. This isn't inferior Fi at all. I made a thread about what inferior Ti is a few months ago. Unfortunately, it's not really well defined anywhere, but EJCC made a very succinct statement for explaining them both:

Inferior Ti: "Your modus operandi failed and no one's needs were met, but what does any logical system matter anyway? Nothing makes sense and everything is chaotic and meaningless."

Inferior Fi: "Your modus operandi failed and objective standards were ignored, but what does any ethical system matter anyway? Everyone is morally repugnant and you especially are morally repugnant."

All of what you have written aligns much more strongly with inferior Ti. You seem to break down into an autopilot mode that is rather cold. This is what broken down Fe does, it autopilots. It might seem driven by Si as well but it's not. In your case it is driven by Se, as it is very good at recalling information and applying it in the know without any conscious thought. It sort of just happens out of a sense of faith or trust based on how it has always occurred.

Your enneagram also is going to effect your type. At the moment, I don't know what your type is within enneagram, but here's what I think on each type:

1: Not a chance. I don't see any neurosis of 1, and I don't believe EJCC has either, and we are effectively the resident experts on this type here.
2: Not a chance in hell. This is important because Fe dom's that are not 2's, very frequently appear much less Fe-like.
3: This is possible, but I am not convinced. It's not uncommon for ENFJ's to be 3's, and if you weren't this type it would further explain why it feels odd to you. Type descriptions are often written stylized with certain enneagrams, and with ENFJ's it's 2 and 3. If you aren't those, it feels off.
4: Nope. Don't need to explain this one.
5: I doubt it. You are too externally focused.
6: This is possible, but I am not convinced. You seem to lack the perma-tension that 6's nearly always have, and in threads like this it always comes out.
7: I think this is your most likely enneagram. It's a rare matchup for an ENFJ, but it does happen. This would also very well explain your seeming connection with Ne.
8: I think this might be possible, but I see a lack of aggression and drive for protection (both self and others) that emerges with ENFJ's of this type.
9: Not a chance. You are not passive nor go with the flow enough.

Tritype might help sort this a bit better two. I think that 3 is in your mix, 7 is in your mix, and 8 is in your mix. Put that together and it actually fits rather nicely and explains the "holes" that ENFJ might appear to have. My tritype explains the holes with my type.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you have questions, but I might be rather slow to respond as I am on vacation for the holidays and have stuff to do.

 

[Captain_Invincible]

I've just read through this thread for the past hour or so, and I can relate to [MENTION=22628]Sil[/MENTION] 's dilemma a lot actually.
I'm self-typing as an ENTJ, because I don't think that I am Dominant Fe, though because my logic ends up being externally pushed, and I have a tendency to organize people/myself and give them directions when I am healthy, and I relate a lot to the Fi Inferior descriptions from Naomi Quenk's book, and have done for a while now (I have read the book, and seem to relate to those the most).
And I also see myself using and relying on Ni more than Ti/Fi when I am healthy. I am a lot more future orientated than I let on, and like to narrow things down to one prediction/possibility and plan around that. And I tend to predict things out of nowhere and have to source them back. I usually land on the end product of a goal and work myself backwards. I can improvise when I have to, but I always have a plan. If the plan gets screwed up, then I use improvisation as my last resort in the moment. I like sticking to the one plan and thinking that plan through. I dream about things, and those dreams end up having some meaning in my life, and I can always find the symbolic meaning behind things pretty fast and their clues leading to patterns and end results. I always follow the clues, and almost always end up down the right path.

 

[existence]

I've just read through this thread for the past hour or so, and I can relate to [MENTION=22628]Sil[/MENTION] 's dilemma a lot actually.
I'm self-typing as an ENTJ, because I don't think that I am Dominant Fe, though because my logic ends up being externally pushed, and I have a tendency to organize people/myself and give them directions when I am healthy, and I relate a lot to the Fi Inferior descriptions from Naomi Quenk's book, and have done for a while now (I have read the book, and seem to relate to those the most).
And I also see myself using and relying on Ni more than Ti/Fi when I am healthy. I am a lot more future orientated than I let on, and like to narrow things down to one prediction/possibility and plan around that. And I tend to predict things out of nowhere and have to source them back. I usually land on the end product of a goal and work myself backwards. I can improvise when I have to, but I always have a plan. If the plan gets screwed up, then I use improvisation as my last resort in the moment. I like sticking to the one plan and thinking that plan through. I dream about things, and those dreams end up having some meaning in my life, and I can always find the symbolic meaning behind things pretty fast and their clues leading to patterns and end results. I always follow the clues, and almost always end up down the right path.

You are definitely ENxJ from this. No question about that.

So why do you not relate to the Fe?

 

[Captain_Invincible]

You are definitely ENxJ from this. No question about that.

So why do you not relate to the Fe?

1. Because I tend not to worry about the emotions of other people, and I tend not to take their well-being into account when I make decisions. Yes, I know how to get reactions out of people, and how to persuade them, but I usually focus on the desired outcome of things and the steps I will take in order to complete that task.

2. I like to organize things into time-based structures and find the most economical, common sense based, direct way to complete the tasks/plans in hand. I am more focused on the events happening, than the people I need to get results. I like doing things my own way, using the resources I have, rather than rely on other people and their outcomes. I can also take instructions/read them well, and focus on steps for solving problems that I have written myself, or other people have written. I tend to be pretty persistent at reading and reading until I can fix the problem ahead, if I can't solve it.

3. I focus on facts, and have a massive database of knowledge built up on my laptop, and at home through books etc., and go back to them when I need to find out how to do something/need a resource for something. I am good at finding relevant sources from external information to back up my sources/points in essay and am good at sourcing where I got those from.

4. I can be extremely cold at times. I never really show any genuine emotions at all, unless I am under stress. My emotional side comes out when I am unhealthy. All my emotions seem 'robotic' if and when I use them. I am usually direct, outspoken, upfront and focused. I'm not really one for politeness, and expression, even at funerals or when someone is born. More times than usual, I tend not to bother with celebrations/gifts, and don't expect much (if anything) in return. I don't have many shared group values/strong beliefs compared to the ENFJs I see.

4a. I have a friend, who I strongly suspect is an ENFJ [he is an Fe-Dom anyway], and he is overly expressive, gets into the spirit of celebrations fast, values harmony, fair and likes t cheer people up. He also is incredibly social, and engages in interaction with people. He is pleasant, and values manners and social appropriateness a lot more than I do, and although I am pretty extroverted and social, my conversations are nothing like his, and I am a lot more business-minded and technical/problem solver (yes, Google is my best friend) than he is. And my social circle doesn't tend to be as massive as his.

That's how I have came to the conclusion that I am using Te over Fe.