Faith healing vs. modern medicine? (Moved from "Bible in a year" thread)

[Mole]

Reading through my King James' version, I came across the following passage -

Matthew 8:28-34

Jesus Casts Out Demons

When He came to the other side into the country of the Gadarenes, two men who were demon-possessed met Him as they were coming out of the tombs. They were so extremely violent that no one could pass by that way. And they cried out, saying, “What business do we have with each other, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”. Now there was a herd of many swine feeding at a distance from them. The demons began to entreat Him, saying, “If You are going to cast us out, send us into the herd of swine.” And He said to them, “Go!” And they came out and went into the swine, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea and perished in the waters

To understand this text we are helped by 400 odd years of biblical scholarship. Biblical scholarship is the academic application of a set of diverse disciplines to the study of the Jewish and Christian scriptures, the Bible. For its theory and methods, the field draws on disciplines ranging from Archaeology, Ancient History, Cultural backgrounds, Textual criticism, Literary criticism, Historical backgrounds, Philology, and Social Sciences.

So 400 years of biblical scholarship tells us that in the first century it was rational to believe that physical and mental illnesses where caused by demons. The germ theory of disease was almost 2,000 years in the future, and neurology was even further in the future, so demons looked like a reasonable explanation for physical and mental illness.

In fact in the first century there were many healers who cast out demons. Just as we have many doctors today practising evidence based medicine, so in the first century there were many healers casting out demons, and Jesus was one of them.

And interestingly, on the basis of this biblical text, there is a registered and approved Society of Exorcists in the Roman Catholic Church. So we have exorcists today casting out demons, just as Jesus and other healers cast out demons in the first century.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Reading through my King James' version, I came across the following passage -

Matthew 8:28-34

Jesus Casts Out Demons

When He came to the other side into the country of the Gadarenes, two men who were demon-possessed met Him as they were coming out of the tombs. They were so extremely violent that no one could pass by that way. And they cried out, saying, “What business do we have with each other, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”. Now there was a herd of many swine feeding at a distance from them. The demons began to entreat Him, saying, “If You are going to cast us out, send us into the herd of swine.” And He said to them, “Go!” And they came out and went into the swine, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea and perished in the waters

To understand this text we are helped by 400 odd years of biblical scholarship. Biblical scholarship is the academic application of a set of diverse disciplines to the study of the Jewish and Christian scriptures, the Bible. For its theory and methods, the field draws on disciplines ranging from Archaeology, Ancient History, Cultural backgrounds, Textual criticism, Literary criticism, Historical backgrounds, Philology, and Social Sciences.

So 400 years of biblical scholarship tells us that in the first century it was rational to believe that physical and mental illnesses where caused by demons. The germ theory of disease was almost 2,000 years in the future, and neurology was even further in the future, so demons looked like a reasonable explanation for physical and mental illness.

In fact in the first century there were many healers who cast out demons. Just as we have many doctors today practising evidence based medicine, so in the first century there were many healers casting out demons, and Jesus was one of them.

And interestingly, on the basis of this biblical text, there is a registered and approved Society of Exorcists in the Roman Catholic Church. So we have exorcists today casting out demons, just as Jesus and other healers cast out demons in the first century.

Yeah.

I believe in instant physical and psychological healing. I also believe in longer healing. Anything is possible through Christ and The Father.

 

[1487610420]

Yeah.

I believe in instant physical and psychological healing. I also believe in longer healing. Anything is possible through Christ and The Father.

how's that working out for ya?

 

[Beorn]

Yeah.

I believe in instant physical and psychological healing. I also believe in longer healing. Anything is possible through Christ and The Father.

I believe God mostly works by normal means... and normal means are miraculous.

 

[fetus]

I believe God mostly works by normal means... and normal means are miraculous.

Absolutely. I think God most often works through science, technology, and other people. (Which is why I feel sad when Christians reject medicine in favor of faith healing--especially when it results in death.)

 

[grey_beard]

Reading through my King James' version, I came across the following passage -

Matthew 8:28-34

Jesus Casts Out Demons

When He came to the other side into the country of the Gadarenes, two men who were demon-possessed met Him as they were coming out of the tombs. They were so extremely violent that no one could pass by that way. And they cried out, saying, “What business do we have with each other, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”. Now there was a herd of many swine feeding at a distance from them. The demons began to entreat Him, saying, “If You are going to cast us out, send us into the herd of swine.” And He said to them, “Go!” And they came out and went into the swine, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea and perished in the waters

To understand this text we are helped by 400 odd years of biblical scholarship. Biblical scholarship is the academic application of a set of diverse disciplines to the study of the Jewish and Christian scriptures, the Bible. For its theory and methods, the field draws on disciplines ranging from Archaeology, Ancient History, Cultural backgrounds, Textual criticism, Literary criticism, Historical backgrounds, Philology, and Social Sciences.

So 400 years of biblical scholarship tells us that in the first century it was rational to believe that physical and mental illnesses where caused by demons. The germ theory of disease was almost 2,000 years in the future, and neurology was even further in the future, so demons looked like a reasonable explanation for physical and mental illness.

In fact in the first century there were many healers who cast out demons. Just as we have many doctors today practising evidence based medicine, so in the first century there were many healers casting out demons, and Jesus was one of them.

And interestingly, on the basis of this biblical text, there is a registered and approved Society of Exorcists in the Roman Catholic Church. So we have exorcists today casting out demons, just as Jesus and other healers cast out demons in the first century.

Odd point about Jesus performing exorcisms. "Send us into the pigs." And the entire herd rushed down the steep bank and were drowned.
Well, OK. But this was Israel. *Who*, precisely, was doing the whole Oscar Meyer thing in the first place?

Yah, I know Israel was under Roman occupation, and maybe some of the legions had a hankering for pepperoni pizza or something. But it still struck me as odd...

 

[Mole]

Odd point about Jesus performing exorcisms. "Send us into the pigs." And the entire herd rushed down the steep bank and were drowned.
Well, OK. But this was Israel. *Who*, precisely, was doing the whole Oscar Meyer thing in the first place?

Yah, I know Israel was under Roman occupation, and maybe some of the legions had a hankering for pepperoni pizza or something. But it still struck me as odd...

It's only odd if we don't know that they knew nothing of the germ theory of disease or neurology, so it was rational for them to believe that demons cause physical and mental illness. So healers had to be exorcists by default.

But today we know demons don't cause physical or mental illnesses, yet still we have exorcists.

And the corollary is that if they were mistaken about something so central as physical and mental illness, we might wonder what else they were mistaken about.

 

[Beorn]

Odd point about Jesus performing exorcisms. "Send us into the pigs." And the entire herd rushed down the steep bank and were drowned.
Well, OK. But this was Israel. *Who*, precisely, was doing the whole Oscar Meyer thing in the first place?

Yah, I know Israel was under Roman occupation, and maybe some of the legions had a hankering for pepperoni pizza or something. But it still struck me as odd...

Animals always can have multiple purposes.
They didn't have rototillers back then and it would be incredibly difficult to clear an area with only the hand tools available to them.
Saving yourself that work is enough reason to keep pigs or trade with someone who does.

Ofc it's also possible that they raised tem and then traded with gentiles. Pigs have a lot of babies and produce a lot of meat/fat that would make them worth keeping just for trade.

 

[Rambling]

Odd point about Jesus performing exorcisms. "Send us into the pigs." And the entire herd rushed down the steep bank and were drowned.
Well, OK. But this was Israel. *Who*, precisely, was doing the whole Oscar Meyer thing in the first place?


Yah, I know Israel was under Roman occupation, and maybe some of the legions had a hankering for pepperoni pizza or something. But it still struck me as odd...

Sorry for my ignorance but who was Oscar Meyer?

 

[Ivy]

Yeah.

I believe in instant physical and psychological healing. I also believe in longer healing. Anything is possible through Christ and The Father.

My mother, in her last days (she died at the end of October), was devastated that she didn't get the instant physical healing from her pancreatic cancer that she prayed without ceasing for. She wondered what she had done wrong to cause God to turn his face from her. It broke my heart. I think this belief is toxic.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

My mother, in her last days (she died at the end of October), was devastated that she didn't get the instant physical healing from her pancreatic cancer that she prayed without ceasing for. She wondered what she had done wrong to cause God to turn his face from her. It broke my heart. I think this belief is toxic.

Then you must believe the Bible is toxic, along with the Gospel of Christ. Because Jesus heals all throughout it, and states that his followers will be able to heal as well. There are also several Greek words for healing, some mean instant healing, some mean longer healing.

I wonder if your mother always followed God's word or if she listened to physicians over God? If we choose the worldly way of doing things and forsake God's way, He will let us have our way.

 

[Ivy]

Then you must believe the Bible is toxic, along with the Gospel of Christ. Because Jesus heals all throughout it, and states that his followers will be able to heal as well. There are also several Greek words for healing, some mean instant healing, some mean longer healing.

I wonder if your mother always followed God's word or if she listened to physicians over God? If we choose the worldly way of doing things and forsake God's way, He will let us have our way.

I wonder if you have a heart at all.

 

[Forever]

In today's society compared to back then, I think it would be best that we were to do all that we could with the doctors while praying that we would be healed and God would do the rest. It also may be for that person it is their time to go as sad as it is for the rest of the family but to hope and know that everything happens for things that which we do not understand.
In my belief, God purposely lets us work it out because it takes more faith to say that He still did the healing or miracle even though you put the time in, thus always giving you a choice to believe it or question your faith, not that God just left you to your own devices.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

In today's society compared to back then, I think it would be best that we were to do all that we could with the doctors while praying that we would be healed and God would do the rest. It also may be for that person it is their time to go as sad as it is for the rest of the family but to hope and know that everything happens for things that which we do not understand.
In my belief, God purposely lets us work it out because it takes more faith to say that He still did the healing or miracle even though you put the time in, thus always giving you a choice to believe it or question your faith, not that God just left you to your own devices.

Doctors practice atheistic medicine, for the most part.

The treatments they use are lethal (x-rays, man-made chemicals, and cutting out body parts) while at the same time paying little time or respect to natural remedies God gives us to use, and commands us to use often.

Furthermore, doctors are condescending if you disagree with them. And they are usually only interested in becoming and staying rich.

All of these are reasons to not trust doctors, especially when you are fighting for your life.

Prayer is wonderful. But along with prayer is meditation and obedience. It takes all of these to manifest the Holy Spirit in a healing way.

 

[Ivy]

It really worries me that you're a healthcare provider. I hope your patients are okay.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

It really worries me that you're a healthcare provider. I hope your patients are okay.

When my patients follow my words and advice, they tend to do better than when they do not.

What I am seeing is very sad though. It is an evil epidemic of life being sabotaged because of what is becoming an insurmountable propaganda campaign against living life as God has proscribed for us. We as an nation (and it is becoming international because we influence so many other nations) are buying into the lies the false prophets of our time are telling us, and practically forcing down our throats in our own governments.

It is not me, Ivy, that is causing death. I am a mere reluctant witness to all that is unfolding before mine sad eyes.

 

[Kas]

I wonder if your mother always followed God's word or if she listened to physicians over God? If we choose the worldly way of doing things and forsake God's way, He will let us have our way.

How can you say this to anybody?

People are getting sick (believing and not believing), people are dying (believing and not believing), that's what the world is like. I don't think choosing conventional medicine is choosing material world over faith. Does the most effective treatment make the prayer invalid? The God would probably want us to take the best possible care of ourselves.

If you work in healthcare then you probably have seen people who came to late to do anything, because they thought that unconventional medicine/ meditation or something else will help them...

 

[ZNP-TBA]

Doctors practice atheistic medicine, for the most part.

The treatments they use are lethal (x-rays, man-made chemicals, and cutting out body parts) while at the same time paying little time or respect to natural remedies God gives us to use, and commands us to use often.

Furthermore, doctors are condescending if you disagree with them. And they are usually only interested in becoming and staying rich.

All of these are reasons to not trust doctors, especially when you are fighting for your life.

Prayer is wonderful. But along with prayer is meditation and obedience. It takes all of these to manifest the Holy Spirit in a healing way.

What the heck is atheistic medicine? Medicine either works or it doesn't and results can be measured. Is Polio vaccine 'atheistic medicine?'

The treatments they use are lethal (x-rays, man-made chemicals, and cutting out body parts) while at the same time paying little time or respect to natural remedies God gives us to use, and commands us to use often.

If you're using the Bible as your source of medical knowledge and suggesting to me modern medicine is bad and you were my healthcare provider I'd sue you and do what I could to make sure you can't practice on anyone.

 

[Ivy]

Posts above moved from the "Read the Bible in a Year" thread or whatever it's called. I'll link it in a minute.

 

[Ivy]

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/philosophy-and-spirituality/80448-read-bible-aphrodite.html