A.I replacing women in the future

[chubber]

Oh I hear you on that - but that depends on the level of sentience this robot would have. It's the Data-debacle all over again (Startrek reference..). But then the point of having a robot also becomes moot as they should have full control over what it is they want to achieve in life - like any lifeform. At that point, it doesn't become a sex toy...it becomes a sex slave. Having a relationship with that kind of A.I. would likely be like building any kind of relationship with another living being, be it part of our species or not, and it should be a two way street. Fwiw, we still do this to other species(animals and plants) - the slavery part, I mean. We're even still called 'pet owners'.

Do you think if Data was in the form of a woman, the show would have been allowed to run?

 

[Amargith]

Do you think if Data was in the form of a woman, the show would have been allowed to run?

Also see edit, I didn't have time to finish before you quoted

Maybe not back in that day, but I think now, sure. I also think that if they had done that back when, there would've been a lot more reference to her sexual aspect (just see the massive amount of innuendo and tight corsets that 7 of 9 was laced into, and she was just Borg, not android). With Data, that happened only really once, with Tasha. And it was no big deal. He decided for himself that he would be amenable to that. And, he treasured that experience afterwards, feeling closer to Tasha, especially after she died. Afterwards they had an episode where he attempted a romantic relationship with a woman which was not exactly a success, but that too was handled in a respectful manner toward him.

I wonder if they'd done it the same way if the robot had been female. Then they did have a female robot on the show, his daughter Lal, but she never reached the point of sexual/romantic programming before she malfunctioned since she got emotions...what does that tell ya?

 

[chubber]

Also see edit, I didn't have time to finish before you quoted

Maybe not back in that day, but I think now, sure. I also think that if they had done that back when, there would've been a lot more reference to her sexual aspect (just see the massive amount of innuendo and tight corsets that 7 of 9 was laced into, and she was just Borg, not android). With Data, that happened only really once, with Tasha. And it was no big deal. He decided for himself that he would be amenable to that. And, he treasured that experience afterwards, feeling closer to Tasha, especially after she died. Afterwards they had an episode where he attempted a romantic relationship with a woman which was not exactly a success, but that too was handled in a respectful manner toward him.

I wonder if they'd done it the same way if the robot had been female. Then they did have a female robot on the show, his daughter Lal, but she never reached the point of sexual/romantic programming before she malfunctioned since she got emotions...what does that tell ya?

It tells me that society plays equality when it suites them. And that society projects their fears that female form A.I can only be used and seen as a sex robot. That it is completely wrong for a man to have one, but totally ok for a woman to engage with a male form A.I. Even if it didn't work out, she had a choice, where as a man doesn't.

 

[Amargith]

It tells me that society plays equality when it suites them. And that society projects their fears that female form A.I can only be used and seen as a sex robot. That it is completely wrong for a man to have one, but totally ok for a woman to engage with a male form A.I. Even if it didn't work out, she had a choice, where as a man doesn't.

Actually, if that is true, it's not what I support, nor did I ever say that, as I stated in my previous posts. I was referring to a robot that didn't have sentience when we first started talking. When you made it clear it was for you about a robot with sentience, that's when I brought in Data as a reference point and stated that it would be like building a relationship with any other life form. And then the idea of the OP would be moot as the robot would have free will to choose, which would automatically excludes having all your wishes fulfilled and getting complete obedience from the robot, unless that robot was actually playing along and wanted to. But there would be no guaranteeing that all robots made would be that way, which was one of the OP's prerequisites, I believe


See..I don't see male vs female. I believe it's more important to focus on object vs living being as the treatment for each differs vastly and the treatment of living beings as objects can leave irreparable trauma (most notably, not respecting their boundaries and 'no').

 

[chubber]

Actually, if that is true, it's not what I support, nor did I ever say that, as I stated in my previous posts. I was referring to a robot that didn't have sentience when we first started talking. When you made it clear it was for you about a robot with sentience, that's when I brought in Data as a reference point and stated that it would be like building a relationship with any other life form. And then the idea of the OP would be moot as the robot would have free will to choose, which would automatically excludes having all your wishes fulfilled and getting complete obedience from the robot, unless that robot was actually playing along and wanted to. But there would be no guaranteeing that all robots made would be that way, which was one of the OP's prerequisites, I believe


See..I don't see male vs female. I believe it's more important to focus on object vs living being as the treatment for each differs vastly and the treatment of living beings as objects can leave irreparable trauma (most notably, not respecting their boundaries and 'no').

I'll agree with you on what you said, I have no leg room to manoeuvring around what the OP specified.

However I still have something to say. Even though the OP didn't specify it to be technically a sex robot. Or sexual toy. Why is it ok for a woman, to do this alone, but not ok for a man to be alone with the sex toy. Society only deems it ok, when another human being is involved, regardless of sexual orientation?

Do I need to remind people that Hysteria was an actual disorder back in the day and required women to be cured of it. Why should a man be cured today? Are we saying that it is not the same, a sex toy isn't just a sex toy?

 

[Amargith]

I'll agree with you on what you said, I have no leg room to manoeuvring around what the OP specified.

However I still have something to say. Even though the OP didn't specify it to be technically a sex robot. Or sexual toy. Why is it ok for a woman, to do this alone, but not ok for a man to be alone with the sex toy. Society only deems it ok, when another human being is involved, regardless of sexual orientation?

Do I need to remind people that Hysteria was an actual disorder back in the day and required women to be cured of it. Why should a man be cured today? Are we saying that it is not the same, a sex toy isn't just a sex toy?

How is it ok for a woman?

It's just..less associated with women, I think, due to the cultural/biological? notion that women look for connection and romance on a long-term basis and men are more likely to be ok with sex with no strings attached.

In Star Trek, Tasha was a) under the influence of a virus that was making her drop all her exhibitions (which she got cured of and was one time freak occurrence) and b) Data had no objections,while he was perfectly capable of saying 'no'. His second encounter, he was the one to break things off after trying to establish an actual relationship.

If we're talking purely sex toys, then I have no problem with a man having a flesh light or whatever else he enjoys. Women often have vibrators for the same purpose. But that's purely physical gratification. It doesn't run the risk of stunting your emotional growth or allowing you to live/putting yourself in prison in a fantasy world where the other person does whatever you want them to, which then can feed the anger that the real world doesn't work that way.

Hell, I'm all for working that stuff out even in BDSM because as much as it creates that fantasy life which can be fun, it still *forces* you to deal with the reality of taking another person's wishes into account and actually demands a high level of trust and responsibility. It hyper focuses on the issues that one would be able to negate with a robot, because it involves two consenting parties after all. It gives you in that respect, the best of both worlds; the fantasy while keeping you grounded in reality.

It's not an inherent male problem that is being opposed - it's the fact that it would enable people to avoid learning vital skills in life needed to function. Male or female. Now, I fully appreciate that some people don't want to specialise in those skills, but not developing them at least to an adequate level could turn you into a danger to others and yourself. And I fully appreciate that some people need a couple of stepping stones before they're ready to actually embark on acquiring these skills, as stated before.

If I were for this idea (and we're going into the stereotypes thing regarding gender) I would also have to support, according to the cultural stereotype at the moment, that a woman could order herself a robot with a wallet the size of Tokyo and live on his cash, while being protected by him, having him do everything around the house and taking all her nagging, bitching and emasculating with a smile on his face, completely validating her pov.

It wouldn't be healthy for her either, to be indulging in that fantasy world. And I would be just as opposed to that idea, because it would keep her from forming real, actual relationships with the wonderful men out there, and discovering the many traits she hadn't even considered were important to her in a mate.

As for the same scenario - aka her having a robot that did everything obediently, including in the bedroom - it's the same problem (one btw that was addressed in Charmed, of all shows , though they also added 'attentive, in tune with her needs, romantic and emotionally aware, to their dream boy). Long-term, it just makes you miss out on life - and the wonderful discovery that lists with specific traits aren't needed to find your ideal mate; that his flaws are in fact what make him so darn attractive in the first place, along with his strengths.

It's the same as any other addiction (which are coping mechanisms that may get you buy in the short-term, but in the long- term are detrimental for your and often other's health). And it is the intensity of use of the coping mechanism that is likely to determine just how detrimental.

In essence, it's the Spoiled Child syndrome. You know, those kids that get everything they've ever wanted by screaming and demanding? Those kids are never happy - however much they think that the next toy will make them happy, it never does. What they need to be happy is for someone to tell them 'no' and teach them how to navigate life and actually become self-actualised themselves so they can determine what actually matters to them in life and go out to strive for it. THAT is what gives purpose and meaning to life

The same is true for avoiding real relationships in favour for one that's easy, gives you everything you think you want, but never provides you with what you actually need.

The thing is, this stuff stems usually from childhood - all of it. There was an inability to learn these skills due to circumstances when peers were learning them. Often this stems from trauma, abuse, neglect, bullying or plainly not getting enough guidance from their environment, whatever the reason. Most of these people have also one thing in common: their coping mechanisms help them in the short-term but often are detrimental in the long-term, either just for themselves or both themselves and those around them. And while not all of them will readily admit it as that would mean showing vulnerability, most of them are unhappy and searching for something better. Unfortunately, the thing that can help them is also the thing that often scares them the most. So they need the thing they were denied in the past for whatever reason: guidance from a person they can trust and who has their best interest at heart while they learn these vital skills.

 

[jixmixfix]

No it's not bias, it's a whole lot of factual information that is available to anyone. Statistically you do not have a leg to stand on. For me to say some women are bad and some men are bad is in no way whatsoever sexist. it is far more along the equality line that this misogynistic thread. Your reasoning that women should be replaced by AI is laughable when you compare it to the worlds sufferings. Men are not puppets they have their own minds give them more credit than to think that women control them, they control themselves and are responsible for their own actions... just as women are. Come out of the dark ages and join the future.

The vast majority of peadophiles are men, the vast majority of people who commit violent crimes are men. The vast majority of murders are men, the vast majority of rapists... etc etc.

First of all you need to get some basic "statistics" correct the "vast" majority of men aren't pedophiles actually as there is not evidence to show this is correct, the primary abusers of children and child murderers are women. The majority of men are rapists yes but more men get raped than more women if you account for males getting raped inside of prisons. This is an injustice perpetuated by a sexist system that pits all non violent men into the same category as violent men. Yes the vast majority of men are "murderers" who murder other men not women due to more men being forced into military roles aka "the draft" and other traditional roles.

Statistically you do not have a leg to stand on.

Yes I do, there are a greater number of injustices that occur to men in our western society than women.

Men are not puppets they have their own minds give them more credit than to think that women control them, they control themselves and are responsible for their own actions... just as women are. Come out of the dark ages and join the future.

So if men have their own minds what is wrong with some men wanting to replace women as an A.I for companionship? It seems like you can't figure out that this might be what some men want.

 

[prplchknz]

if ai is replacing me i can nap more, i'm down

 

[Inarius]

I agree with HelenOfTroy , the OP is just plainly misoginistic. Moreover, as a man, I feel it quite insulting that you speak as if you were representing all the men (including me, therefore)

You are only meeting stupid and materialistic women ? Fine for you ! It's your choice ! Not mine. But don't pretend they are all like this, and don't pretend all men like this, too. Perhaps your attitude is only attracting this kind, you know ?

You told yesterday to Helen of Troy "Good for you but that has nothing to do with society at large. " when she was giving her example, but can't you see you are exactly doing the same thing ? You have nothing to give as a proof, except your statements, which are "true" because of what ? Because you said it ? Wouaw ! And that is supposed to make me trust you ? You are only representing yourself, and some other frustrated haters. Let me laugh.

All in all, you are just another man who hates women , and as you are not able to evolve, you changed it into theories. This is sad.
And I don't think women are better. Many women live in hatred of men, just like you ,and think and live in stereotypes - just like you. This is sad, but not unexpected.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Aren't we programmed, in a sense?

To love? Hmm. It's not a given. We are learning to love better and in different ways our whole lives.

You aren't going to love your high school love the same way you love the person you marry. You aren't going to love the person you marry the same way after 20 years that you did the first three months you met.

The "one that got away" holds a special bittersweetness. A nostalgia that you might simultaneously enjoy and hate reliving.

Love is not static. It's dynamic.

You give your heart with the expectation that you will be met in kind or in sad cases, you give it knowing you never will be reciprocated.

If someone were to use A.I. as a substitute for human love and a human partner - they wouldn't grow. Wouldn't take chances. It's gutless. It's cowardice.

You aren't playing against the house casino but with a stacked deck among friends. It changes the weight of the reward.

 

[Betty Blue]

First of all you need to get some basic "statistics" correct the "vast" majority of men aren't pedophiles actually as there is not evidence to show this is correct,

There is plenty of evidence to show this, check any sex offenders register. How many would you say are women in a percentage format?


EDIT: Hold the phone! I did not say the vast majority of men are peadophiles lol wut? I said that compared to women as in percentage wise if you look at the paedophiles.

the primary abusers of children and child murderers are women.

I'd like to see some stats on that, link me some please.

The majority of men are rapists yes but more men get raped than more women if you account for males getting raped inside of prisons. This is an injustice perpetuated by a sexist system that pits all non violent men into the same category as violent men. Yes the vast majority of men are "murderers" who murder other men not women due to more men being forced into military roles aka "the draft" and other traditional roles.

Look at what you are saying here, it is not sexist to put non violent men with violent men. It is peace-ist or something to that effect but it has nothing whatsoever to do with gender. In female and male prisons they have very similar systems... it goes something like, open prisons-medium security prisons-maximum security prisons. In each peadophiles are kept seperately because of the high rates of violence caused towards them. None of that is gender biased as far as I know. But weather men kill other men or men kill women it is still much higher rate of men killing. It's pretty simple.

Yes I do, there are a greater number of injustices that occur to men in our western society than women.

And by injustice do you mean your own personal gripes or legal injustices such as women getting priority in custody battles. I'm actually on the side of men with that because I do believe it is sexist to have preference for a mother if the father is equally able to look after the child.

So if men have their own minds what is wrong with some men wanting to replace women as an A.I for companionship? It seems like you can't figure out that this might be what some men want.

If you are talking about a singular guy wanting to have an AI gf because for whatever reason he struggles with relationships with human women personally idc, but the idea that you would replace women altogether is not very clever is it. It's gendercide, akin to Hitler hundreds of times over.

 

[Forever]

Haha I had this conversation with someone like this summer about this conversation. I thought the answer was an easy no. Maybe idk about you, but I'm a human being that wants another human being.

Let's be blunt here:
There's no real sex with an ai
Ai is nowhere as smart as a real woman
When you touch it, you know it's just all metal inside
Oh when you bump into her, it's going to hurt. Really bad.

I mean the disadvantages clearly weigh over the advantages.. If there are any.

 

[miss fortune]

though thinking about things... could we get an AI to clean the house and do all of the tasks that we don't want to do? I want a robot maid like the Jetsons promised me

I mean, we could happily get an AI that would keep the house clean and walk the dog during the day and give us more time to enjoy each other... I can definitely imagine that if a couple had an AI to do all of the around the house jobs and such there would be less spats over who's turn it is to take out the trash or do the dishes and that more time to spend enjoying one another's presence would be a positive thing

 

[prplchknz]

though thinking about things... could we get an AI to clean the house and do all of the tasks that we don't want to do? I want a robot maid like the Jetsons promised me

I mean, we could happily get an AI that would keep the house clean and walk the dog during the day and give us more time to enjoy each other... I can definitely imagine that if a couple had an AI to do all of the around the house jobs and such there would be less spats over who's turn it is to take out the trash or do the dishes and that more time to spend enjoying one another's presence would be a positive thing

dude this is why i'm ok with it, if i can just nap instead of clean i'm all for being replaced by ai. no one sees my optimism in this situation

 

[Firebird 8118]

though thinking about things... could we get an AI to clean the house and do all of the tasks that we don't want to do? I want a robot maid like the Jetsons promised me

I mean, we could happily get an AI that would keep the house clean and walk the dog during the day and give us more time to enjoy each other... I can definitely imagine that if a couple had an AI to do all of the around the house jobs and such there would be less spats over who's turn it is to take out the trash or do the dishes and that more time to spend enjoying one another's presence would be a positive thing

Hell yeah, that would be awesome more time to spend with the hubby!

 

[Betty Blue]

though thinking about things... could we get an AI to clean the house and do all of the tasks that we don't want to do? I want a robot maid like the Jetsons promised me

I mean, we could happily get an AI that would keep the house clean and walk the dog during the day and give us more time to enjoy each other... I can definitely imagine that if a couple had an AI to do all of the around the house jobs and such there would be less spats over who's turn it is to take out the trash or do the dishes and that more time to spend enjoying one another's presence would be a positive thing

Well yah, to have things on an equal footing (hetero)women should also have the option of replacing a human relationship with an AI guy. Or well anyone should have the option of replacing a relationship etc with an ai one. Yes they could be programmed to do all sorts of things. You could even have a non sexual relationship but program it to shower you with affection so you feel loved rather than just wanted for your body

 

[jixmixfix]

There is plenty of evidence to show this, check any sex offenders register. How many would you say are women in a percentage format?


EDIT: Hold the phone! I did not say the vast majority of men are peadophiles lol wut? I said that compared to women as in percentage wise if you look at the paedophiles.

Yes you did say the vast majority of men are pedophiles, Considering the fact women get fewer sentences for the same crime the amount of convicted female sex offenders would be less however the amount of female child abusers overall is greater. (not all sex offenders are pedophiles).

I'd like to see some stats on that, link me some please.

Of the 2012 child abuse cases, 45.3% of the perpetrators were male and 53.5% were female.
Child Abuse Facts

Look at what you are saying here, it is not sexist to put non violent men with violent men. It is peace-ist or something to that effect but it has nothing whatsoever to do with gender. In female and male prisons they have very similar systems... it goes something like, open prisons-medium security prisons-maximum security prisons. In each peadophiles are kept seperately because of the high rates of violence caused towards them. None of that is gender biased as far as I know. But weather men kill other men or men kill women it is still much higher rate of men killing. It's pretty simple.

The reason why it's sexist is based on the assumption that all men who commit crimes are violent. Many men who face non violent crimes are abused and raped inside of prisons committed by a smaller minority of other men. The system is broken, as it only further damages non violent criminals. Yes men do more killing, but also the vast majority homicide victims are other males, around 74% compared to 26% of women. So men do as much killing as they are being killed by other men.

And by injustice do you mean your own personal gripes or legal injustices such as women getting priority in custody battles. I'm actually on the side of men with that because I do believe it is sexist to have preference for a mother if the father is equally able to look after the child.

legal rights are all favored towards women, child custody, fewer sentences for the same crime committed. etc

If you are talking about a singular guy wanting to have an AI gf because for whatever reason he struggles with relationships with human women personally idc, but the idea that you would replace women altogether is not very clever is it. It's gendercide, akin to Hitler hundreds of times over.

I never said/meant replacing "all" women together, it wouldn't be very smart or moral to kill off more than half the human population and replace them with A.I. LOL

 

[Amargith]

Actually, she didn't say that - that the vast majority of men are paedophiles.

What she said was that paedophiles tend to be overwhelmingly male ( just like serial killers, rapists and those committing violent crimes are, for that matter)

Big difference. The majority of men are just wonderful

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

this thread tangent

 

[Diablesse]