[Traditional Enneagram] Quick view on relationships. What enneagram?

[estorm]

In what way does it seem competence triad?

This is mostly from comments near the beginning of the thread.
I agree there is a lot of image stuff as well.
Together this points to 3, as wing or type.

Ultimately it comes down to self-identification. When you can see that a type fits you and the patterns seem real and the blind spots are useful (as ones you've heard from others in the past but can only now begin to see).

WESTROM, I'd love to hear what you feel fits and what doesn't of 3 and 4.

Thanks.

 

[westrom]

But I am still liking both 3 and 4 from what you've said. And, of course, your test scores above support this as well.

Not all 4's are trying to be "weird", artistic, or visually different. That's an outward manifestation of an inner process. It's the inner process, motivations, and values that will determine type.

Adjusting yourself in different situations sounds 3-ish, and having a strong sense of self (versus other blurring versions of yourself) sounds more 4-ish.

Would you say you focus more on tasks, goals and performance and see your feelings as obstacles or annoyances to getting things done?
Or would you say you focus more on your feelings and moods, processing them before being able to address tasks?

Of course these kinds of things depend on circumstances, so try to squint your eyes and generalize what happens most of the time (and if you past your 20's how you were closer to 20 years old).

Thanks.

Actually, on most tests I score high 3 and 8, low 2, and quite low 4. But of course, most tests ask me "are you artistic", if yes, then I must be 4. lol. So yea, I uploaded the results of the best test I've taken.

I understand. But we need to start somewhere.

Yea

I focus on goals, performance. I don't see my feelings as obstacles, as whenever I feel bad, I use my imagination, start feeling even worse, and then reverse it, I mean convert it into motivation. Always works, I don't know why I am doing this, it's automatic. Tho, maybe I do see my feelings as obstacles. Like, I had to go outside for 2 mins, but I thought that I can wake up my neighbors, as it was like 2 AM. so I went out only in 5mins. Wasted 5mins, if I didn't care, I would have gone out immediately.
Yea, and I am always seeking the right mood to do something specific. It's weird.

I am not 20 yet.

This is mostly from comments near the beginning of the thread.
I agree there is a lot of image stuff as well.
Together this points to 3, as wing or type.

Ultimately it comes down to self-identification. When you can see that a type fits you and the patterns seem real and the blind spots are useful (as ones you've heard from others in the past but can only now begin to see).

WESTROM, I'd love to hear what you feel fits and what doesn't of 3 and 4.

Thanks.

I am not sure what else I could say, I think I am riding around the circle now. Saying what fits me as 3/4, would be repeating what I've said tbh.

Brb 7 hours.

Thanks.

 

[estorm]

... whenever I feel bad, I use my imagination, start feeling even worse, and then reverse it, I mean convert it into motivation. Always works, I don't know why I am doing this, it's automatic. ...

I am not 20 yet.

Some believe that personality is still forming until 20 give or take a couple years. Some settle in early and have no experiences to upset it. So maybe yours is still up in the air

If the process described above about changing your feelings into motivations takes you less than 10 or 15 minute, then I'll put my vote in for a 3. Both the speed and the process sound like something a 3 might do to get back on point.

Goals and performance are also not often the main focus for 4's.
[Any 3's and 4's want to chime in ???]

Thanks.

 

[estorm]

I am not sure what else I could say, I think I am riding around the circle now. Saying what fits me as 3/4, would be repeating what I've said tbh.

I hear you

 

[estorm]

I'll stop there with a final vote for 3w4.

Cheers!

 

[_Radioactive_]

-then they will like me
- then they will rely on me
- then the will need me
- then they will see my superiority
- then I will feel my superiority
- then I will feel my special-ness
- then they will see how unique I am
- then they will be more like I think they should be
- then they will be more like me
- then they will be happy
- then they will not need me
- then they will make better things happen in the world
- then they will be successful

[MENTION=26293]westrom[/MENTION]

 

[_Radioactive_]

Btw I think you aren't enough feeling focused for a 4, too goal oriented, chameleonic and forgetful of feelings most of the time, 4 can be ambitious but in more of an angry, vengeful way, I could imagine a feeling turning into a goal with them (happens to me too though, for example I can get angry and get the feeling of power when I express it, more so than when I achieve something)

 

[westrom]

Some believe that personality is still forming until 20 give or take a couple years. Some settle in early and have no experiences to upset it. So maybe yours is still up in the air

If the process described above about changing your feelings into motivations takes you less than 10 or 15 minute, then I'll put my vote in for a 3. Both the speed and the process sound like something a 3 might do to get back on point.

Goals and performance are also not often the main focus for 4's.
[Any 3's and 4's want to chime in ???]

Thanks.

Yea, it doesn't take long 10 mins or so. lol. Unless it's quality-like, then 20 maybe.

-then they will like me
- then they will rely on me
- then the will need me
- then they will see my superiority
- then I will feel my superiority
- then I will feel my special-ness
- then they will see how unique I am
- then they will be more like I think they should be
- then they will be more like me
- then they will be happy
- then they will not need me
- then they will make better things happen in the world
- then they will be successful


[MENTION=26293]westrom[/MENTION]

Quite similar. Btw, I wonder who would choose "then they will not need me"? lol
Also, I chose "they they will be more like me", as it's logically correct >>

Btw I think you aren't enough feeling focused for a 4, too goal oriented, chameleonic and forgetful of feelings most of the time, 4 can be ambitious but in more of an angry, vengeful way, I could imagine a feeling turning into a goal with them (happens to me too though, for example I can get angry and get the feeling of power when I express it, more so than when I achieve something)

Chameleonic. Yea. Actually I think I am somewhat? ambitious in an angry way, wanting to revenge? Feelings indeed turn into goals sometimes. lol. But I always was at least a bit oriented to success, being the best, only recently started jumping into 4-ism...Basically almost everything that is 4-ish, has been happening for the last 3 years only, I think...Before that I was more in 9 mode, as I would just do stuff for fun. Wasn't hard-working at all, not studying + yet being better was what I did. But again, on games(what else could I do?) I worked hard, and would surpass friends very easily, with future-focus. Yet, If asked, I would always say that I played way less than I actually did . + They would do something for fun, and I would ask what's the use of this? Better do this, you'll get profit. I get it now. I couldn't "succeed" in real life due to wrong school, so I focused on games. lol.

Btw, can you forgive anyone at all? I can't, so that makes me doubt I am Fe.

 

[cascadeco]

Quite similar. Btw, I wonder who would choose "then they will not need me"? lol

This in and of itself is pretty telling, imo. I mean, for example, I'm kind of sort of uncomfortable with the notion of someone *needing* me. I can't relate to much of what you've written re yourself and your motivations.

 

[westrom]

This in and of itself is pretty telling, imo. I mean, for example, I'm kind of sort of uncomfortable with the notion of someone *needing* me. I can't relate to much of what you've written re yourself and your motivations.

Oh. Well, I am not, so maybe that's it?

Are you 4w3?

 

[_Radioactive_]

[MENTION=26293]westrom[/MENTION] my dad for example doesn't wanna be needed.
But he wishes people(his daughter) well and for him it means he has to help. But he wants to teach you his ways so you'd know how to do specific things as well as live your life the best way possible rather than so you'd need him.
He wants to be left in peace (and fun) for the most part.
He always told me how it's better to teach a person how to catch fish rather than give them fish you caught, and I think that represents his approach to help. He's a 9, probably w1, probably 5 and 3 fixed.

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(Rest of the reply coming later!)

 

[_Radioactive_]

In what way do you wanna make people more like you?

As for forgiving, I do think I'm quite forgiving in many cases. Maybe understanding is a better word, I'm very understanding and open minded compared to most people I've met.
But I can also be a principled bitch and honestly, I can get kinda bad when angry (hence that thread I started a while ago)

So, my heart may forgive you, but if you really deserve punishment there's a chance you'll get it. Because you deserve it.
I may understand you perfectly, but I might pretend I don't.

 

[westrom]

[MENTION=26293]westrom[/MENTION] my dad for example doesn't wanna be needed.
But he wishes people(his daughter) well and for him it means he has to help. But he wants to teach you his ways so you'd know how to do specific things as well as live your life the best way possible rather than so you'd need him.
He wants to be left in peace (and fun) for the most part.
He always told me how it's better to teach a person how to catch fish rather than give them fish you caught, and I think that represents his approach to help. He's a 9, probably w1, probably 5 and 3 fixed.

- - - Updated - - -

(Rest of the reply coming later!)

I see.
I think I kinda agree with catching fish thing. But I do want be needed.

In what way do you wanna make people more like you?

As for forgiving, I do think I'm quite forgiving in many cases. Maybe understanding is a better word, I'm very understanding and open minded compared to most people I've met.
But I can also be a principled bitch and honestly, I can get kinda bad when angry (hence that thread I started a while ago)

So, my heart may forgive you, but if you really deserve punishment there's a chance you'll get it. Because you deserve it.
I may understand you perfectly, but I might pretend I don't.

I don't think I really want to make them as me. It's just natural, lol, I will more or less tell them to do what works for me, that's why they'll be somewhat like me. I think I forgot that there is "I want help, so" before that statement. lol.

What thread? Sadistic enneagram?

Mine never forgives I think.

 

[Bush]

Hmm. I honestly thought I am 3w4, possibly 4w3, as I am quite dramatic, melancholic, just like 4s. Also, when I think of being "liked', I don't really focus on what others would like, it's like I want to create my own image, and want it to be liked. As you are 3w4, you really think it's unrealistic that I could be 3w4/4w3?

"Creating your own image" and wanting it to be liked is totally 3-flavored.

The side of yourself that you've presented -- the side that we know, the side with which you "introduced" yourself -- has strong hint of "need to be needed" flavor to it which is attributable to type w2. We're all multifaceted, though, so w4's possible.


So here's more from a 3w4 on people, people-pleasing, etc:

Personally, my sentiment on "needed" is that if I'm going to be involved with other people, I'd much, much rather be "on top" than dependent. At all. That's pretty much the thing about my relationship with people in general. (I mean "on top" as in, say, wanting to stay on "on top" of situations, not that I want to control people.)

While I know that that's very common -- "Oh, yeah; of course I don't want to be dependent!" -- it's practically a make-or-break for me.

I don't particularly care if people look up to me, but I do love credentials. I do like to help guide people who are where I've been before, while also being fair about it; but I don't look at it as that "I'm the expert/teacher/sage; I think it's cool that I'm above you." I don't seek to lead people for the sake of leading people, but I like leadership positions. And with those positions come responsibilities. And if those responsibilities involve other people, it's better to not mess around, to make things unfair, to not be a prick, etc.

But getting involved with other people also imposes constraints. You've gotta set up meetings, take time out for them, and so on. I value my independence more than virtually anything else.

So to the extent that you relate to that -- that you're not saying "this is not me" -- you could be a w4.

 

[westrom]

"Creating your own image" and wanting it to be liked is totally 3-flavored.

The side of yourself that you've presented -- the side that we know, the side with which you "introduced" yourself -- has strong hint of "need to be needed" flavor to it which is attributable to type w2. We're all multifaceted, though, so w4's possible.


So here's more from a 3w4 on people, people-pleasing, etc:

Personally, my sentiment on "needed" is that if I'm going to be involved with other people, I'd much, much rather be "on top" than dependent. At all. That's pretty much the thing about my relationship with people in general. (I mean "on top" as in, say, wanting to stay on "on top" of situations, not that I want to control people.)

While I know that that's very common -- "Oh, yeah; of course I don't want to be dependent!" -- it's practically a make-or-break for me.

I don't particularly care if people look up to me, but I do love credentials. I do like to help guide people who are where I've been before, while also being fair about it; but I don't look at it as that "I'm the expert/teacher/sage; I think it's cool that I'm above you." I don't seek to lead people for the sake of leading people, but I like leadership positions. And with those positions come responsibilities. And if those responsibilities involve other people, it's better to not mess around, to make things unfair, to not be a prick, etc.

But getting involved with other people also imposes constraints. You've gotta set up meetings, take time out for them, and so on. I value my independence more than virtually anything else.

So to the extent that you relate to that -- that you're not saying "this is not me" -- you could be a w4.

Alright.

Yes, I do need to be needed, and I want that I'd be the one who someone needs most.

:

Me too. Being dependable on others is something I totally avoid.

That would just annoy me, I think it could be my fear - being dependable on others.

I don't think I am the expert either, but exactly like you - it's cool. It makes me feel good. I don't I want to lead others just for the sake either, if I lead, there must be reason why it is going to be helpful to both.

I value my freedom, I'll help them when I want to. I can't imagine myself setting up meetings, and only then talk/help. No. I want a normal friendship, in which I'd feel needed/important. +I'd never collaborate with others, to help people. Well, unless they obviously help less, and won't be more important in one's eyes, than me.

I am honestly not sure...

 

[estorm]

Btw, I wonder who would choose "then they will not need me"? lol

As a 5, I don't really want people to need me. Use me some times, sure. But depend on me, no.
I imagine 9's and 7's might feel this way.
Mine is more a "Here's what I've got. Take it or leave it."
I guess a 9 might say, "I'd like to help, but don't depend on me."
And a 7 might say, "Do your own thing. I'll do mine."

 

[_Radioactive_]

As a 5, I don't really want people to need me. Use me some times, sure. But depend on me, no.
I imagine 9's and 7's might feel this way.
Mine is more a "Here's what I've got. Take it or leave it."
I guess a 9 might say, "I'd like to help, but don't depend on me."
And a 7 might say, "Do your own thing. I'll do mine."

Definitely agree with this.

 

[westrom]

As a 5, I don't really want people to need me. Use me some times, sure. But depend on me, no.
I imagine 9's and 7's might feel this way.
Mine is more a "Here's what I've got. Take it or leave it."
I guess a 9 might say, "I'd like to help, but don't depend on me."
And a 7 might say, "Do your own thing. I'll do mine."

One of my friends is 7 I think. It annoys me.

Btw I realized. I think I know why I can't execute plans, or actually do something. lol. It's like I fear to be alone, that no one will be here when I succeed. I want someone to appreciate me for who I am. Why try to succeed, if no one would care about it? I'd start playing games and hide then.
+from xNxP -> Why do you keep thinking/telling about who you are or not, only you care about it, better become the best student in uni now, you won't even need to tell anyone who you are, they'll see that.
But I think I would somewhat hate that image I create, it wouldn't be me? I think I am 3w4 SX/SP now...

 

[Kheledon]

Those scores are awkward, but my best guess would be an Enneagram Type 2 (which should show high scores in 2, 4, & 8). Were you a 4, you should show high scores in 4, 1, & 2. Your "1" score is very low. Were you a 3, you should show high scores in 3, 6, & 9. Your scores in "6" and "9" are too low for me to think that you're a 3. You might want to take the test again.

 

[Kullervo]

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