[Type 9] Ask a 9 anything!

[Frosty]

I've got a scenario for you 9's! It involves a 9w1 friend of mine, and I wrote it up here (it's the last post on the page). Mind checking it out and sharing your thoughts? [MENTION=25573]Enygmatic[/MENTION] [MENTION=19700]Starcrash[/MENTION] [MENTION=24643]Frosty6226[/MENTION] [MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION]

Yeah it sounds like he is having a hard time understanding and determining whether or not he wants a commitment, and may even be second guessing what exactly this situation entails. He may be hesitant to move foreward with it because while he does or may feel some sort of connection with you, and he may have that passion, it may just be a bit stampeded by his ability to see both positives and negatives. He just wants to keep his options open, and he probably doesn't realize at all the push and pull odd effect this might be having. I know that when I am confused about something, or am thinking something over, I sort of withdraw emotionally from the situation, to really think about it. But it generally isn't visible, and since I am able to detatch myself at times away from it- to compartmentalize it I am able to put on an amiable face- and occasionally it seems that the more obviously friendly I am with someone the more I am trying to hide, from them and myself. Because I wouldn't want to threaten a comfortable situation, I put more energy forth.

Come back to this later

 

[evilrubberduckie]

I believe my mom is a ennegram 9 ( she seems to share traits with 9 more then any of the others)

Anyway, I sometimes have problems communicating with her. I dont know how to tell her that she is keeping TOO much of the peace, and that I want to bring up the problem so I can fix it. I dont think she is aware of shutting me down every time I try to breach on the subject.

I guess question is. How do you bring up a problem to a enegram 9?

 

[Frosty]

I believe my mom is a ennegram 9 ( she seems to share traits with 9 more then any of the others)

Anyway, I sometimes have problems communicating with her. I dont know how to tell her that she is keeping TOO much of the peace, and that I want to bring up the problem so I can fix it. I dont think she is aware of shutting me down every time I try to breach on the subject.

I guess question is. How do you bring up a problem to a enegram 9?

Very slowly and calmly, in the least demanding way possible. Gotta be reeled in before it can be caught with 9's. But even then, she may still decide not to engage with it- the allure of inner peace, of non aggression, is pretty strong for 9's.

 

[uumlau]

I've got a scenario for you 9's! It involves a 9w1 friend of mine, and I wrote it up here (it's the last post on the page). Mind checking it out and sharing your thoughts? [MENTION=25573]Enygmatic[/MENTION] [MENTION=19700]Starcrash[/MENTION] [MENTION=24643]Frosty6226[/MENTION] [MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION]

You're both introverts who are bad at flirting. His mistake was not being more forthcoming. Your mistake was treating his girlfriend as his wife. You're allowed to flirt back.

I think he was flirting with you, in his own awkward way, and you rejected the flirt, in order to spare his feelings. You negated his statement instead of, for example, playing with it. Here's a quick off the cuff example reply: "There's kind of a chicken and egg question there. Do you start off bf/gf and THEN take such pictures, or do you take such pictures and then become bf/gf?"

See what I did there? I'll outline:
1) No rejection.
2) Made the topic abstract.
3) Hinted at possibilities without pressing one way or the other.

Granted, this is tough to come up with, especially when you were as surprised as you were. Here's an easy counter-flirt that works for any situation, as long as the other person flirts first. Put a sly expression on your face (purposefully overdo it, raise your eyebrows, ham it up), and ask, "Are you flirting with me?" and see where he takes it. If he takes it badly, be gentle and say, "It's OK if you are. It just surprised me." If he takes it well, then you're on your own. Flirting is a skill I didn't learn until MUCH too late in life.

 

[small.wonder]

You're both introverts who are bad at flirting. His mistake was not being more forthcoming. Your mistake was treating his girlfriend as his wife. You're allowed to flirt back.

I think he was flirting with you, in his own awkward way, and you rejected the flirt, in order to spare his feelings. You negated his statement instead of, for example, playing with it. Here's a quick off the cuff example reply: "There's kind of a chicken and egg question there. Do you start off bf/gf and THEN take such pictures, or do you take such pictures and then become bf/gf?"

See what I did there? I'll outline:
1) No rejection.
2) Made the topic abstract.
3) Hinted at possibilities without pressing one way or the other.

Hey! Thank you for the response, your perspective is much appreciated!

I don't really think either of us is bad at flirting, mostly because he was flirting with me all weekend practically (and yes, I innocently flirted back most of the time-- which was really just friendly banter). I think he's just scared to be vocal about his feelings, and went with a cryptic/passive route (perhaps disguised as flirting). He should have been more forthcoming, as you mentioned. I seem to always be left with responsibility of clearing the air.

The girlfriend/wife distinction is hard for me, because regardless, I still want to protect his honor (and her heart) because I care about him, and I'm not the type of person to aid in unfaithfulness. I actually feel a little insulted by it, because it seems like the easy road (as apposed to actually expressing his feelings, and handling the situation).

Instead of speaking, he's done things like the aforementioned taking pictures of wildflowers: saving me pineapple starburst because I said I liked them (even though they are his favorite), helping me carry things, etc. We also have these notes at the end of camp that you can write to others to encourage them. He wrote me one, and it was extremely genuine and touching. All signs point to the same conclusion, am I wrong?

I do, however, see what you mean by the rejection bit-- and I know that's the last thing I should ever do to a 9. I was really caught off guard and confused, but if "being like siblings" is rejection for him, then logically he does have non-platonic feelings right??

I guess my question is, what now? Is there anyway to revisit this? I've thought about texting him and telling him I lied about seeing us as siblings, but that's kind of risky.

I'm sorry to say I apparently don't have permission to access this page likely due to me only being here a short time. Could you copy and paste the scenario here?

Sure, here you go!

Foreword: I just returned from a weekend away that I always enjoy, my church's summer youth camp. Over 2,000 high school students went this year, myself among close to 250 adult leaders. The weekend is always exhausting (both physically and emotionally) but so, so rewarding. I have a group of girls that I meet with every week during the school year, so it is very much like a mentoring thing, but I always meet a few new ones at camp. I could go on forever about the stories of students, and the way God moves, but what I fell out of bed this morning really needing to write about, is more in regards to some leader dynamics.

My fellow adult leaders are amazing, they are some of the most quality humans I've met-- perhaps this is because it requires some emotional and spiritual maturity to volunteer with high school students, or to be vulnerable about your own faults for the sake of their growth. Whatever it is, I've met some very interesting people in the (going on) five years I've been a smallgroup leader.

The Point: One such person is a guy who is part of my team (there are thirty different ones, each with around eight leaders) that I've become friends with over the past year. He's a 9w1, healthy enough to be funny and speak his mind, but does tend to listen more than talk. There is chemistry there, and we clearly enjoy each other's company, but he's never asked me out or been forthcoming. Then, in the spring, I asked him about the mushroom foraging that he does and we ended up planning to go together. It was really fun and we had good conversation, but I just didn't feel like he was interested-- never once held a branch back for me, and kind of kept a lot of physical distance between us the whole time. Afterwards, I just thought maybe he's not interested. The next few days though, included texting me pictures of wildflowers I had mentioned I liked, and inviting me to a bonfire at his house.

After that, things kind of tapered off. He was traveling, and summer came and I wrote it off. Then, on Friday when I saw him again, he was all charm and warmth. Quick to help me with things, joking and flirting with me. When we were about to get on the bus to leave for camp, he mentioned that he just started dating someone (that I know). This would not have confused or bothered me at all, if he hadn't just been flirting with me. I expressed my happiness for them, though, and thought that would be the end of it. The rest of the weekend he was still warm, if slightly less flirtatious, until a mutual good friend took a picture of us. She posted it on Instagram, and we were commenting what a nice picture it was (more for color and composition than anything else) he said, "yeah, it would be better if we were dating though." How does one respond to that?!

So like an idiot (and out of confusion and fear), I said something to the effect of "nah, we're like siblings." I think I said it to protect him, and prevent him from emotionally cheating on his new girlfriend, but also to protect myself from the embarrassment of admitting I kind of like him (when he's dating someone else). His response was to say nothing, and kind of look away. It felt like disappointment (I could be wrong, but) like saying that was his passive way of admitting he wants to date me? So what does that mean? That he's just having second thoughts about his girlfriend, or am I just reading way too into this...? I do know men have been intimidated by me in that past, so that could be it.

The thing I'm working on with my therapist at the moment, is trusting my intuition (because I was invalidated a lot growing up). Do you think my instincts are correct in this scenario? I'd love to hear thoughts from some 9's!

 

[uumlau]

Hey! Thank you for the response, your perspective is much appreciated!

I don't really think either of us is bad at flirting, mostly because he was flirting with me all weekend practically (and yes, I innocently flirted back most of the time-- which was really just friendly banter). I think he's just scared to be vocal about his feelings, and went with a cryptic/passive route (perhaps disguised as flirting). He should have been more forthcoming, as you mentioned. I seem to always be left with responsibility of clearing the air.

I think you are right. But when you're BOTH introverts, it's hard to figure out who "should" clear the air. Both sides are going to pass the buck. (I'm not casting stones - this is more of a "been there, done that" thing for me.)

The girlfriend/wife distinction is hard for me, because regardless, I still want to protect his honor (and her heart) because I care about him, and I'm not the type of person to aid in unfaithfulness. I actually feel a little insulted by it, because it seems like the easy road (as apposed to actually expressing his feelings, and handling the situation).

I agree. My philosophy on the matter is that I wouldn't want a woman who would so easily leave her man for another. But one thing I've learned is that flirting is natural and OK in most instances. Even when married, oddly enough, as the other person is secure enough to take it as playful banter and nothing serious. When you're young, and an introvert, it is so very easy to take flirting so seriously, as leading to a "Relationship". It isn't like that at all. It's mostly just play, and a test to see if the other person is in a mood to play.

Instead of speaking, he's done things like the aforementioned taking pictures of wildflowers: saving me pineapple starburst because I said I liked them (even though they are his favorite), helping me carry things, etc. We also have these notes at the end of camp that you can write to others to encourage them. He wrote me one, and it was extremely genuine and touching. All signs point to the same conclusion, am I wrong?

I don't think you're wrong. I'm sure he likes you.

I do, however, see what you mean by the rejection bit-- and I know that's the last thing I should ever do to a 9. I was really caught off guard and confused, but if "being like siblings" is rejection for him, then logically he does have non-platonic feelings right??

I thought that was obvious.

I guess my question is, what now? Is there anyway to revisit this? I've thought about texting him and telling him I lied about seeing us as siblings, but that's kind of risky.

You can text him your thoughts and be honest, and that would both make him feel better, knowing that you care and the feelings are mutual, insofar as they go, but you can add that the reason you said the brother/sister thing is that you also strongly honor the relationship he has formed with his girlfriend, and you didn't want to say anything that might hurt that.

Honesty, with a real and true friend, is only "risky" in the sense that you determine that they aren't that good of a friend in the first place. If you form a friendship based on that level of honesty, you will have something that you can treasure for years, regardless of whether you become his girlfriend/wife or whatever.

 

[small.wonder]

I think you are right. But when you're BOTH introverts, it's hard to figure out who "should" clear the air. Both sides are going to pass the buck. (I'm not casting stones - this is more of a "been there, done that" thing for me.)

I do agree in most cases, but (I think because of my instincts) I'm usually pretty direct-- sometimes even overly so.

I don't think you're wrong. I'm sure he likes you.

I thought that was obvious.

I don't know why, I just really needed confirmation of that. I think that's what I meant by texting him being risky: if he didn't really have feelings for me at all, it would be super awkward.

You can text him your thoughts and be honest, and that would both make him feel better, knowing that you care and the feelings are mutual, insofar as they go, but you can add that the reason you said the brother/sister thing is that you also strongly honor the relationship he has formed with his girlfriend, and you didn't want to say anything that might hurt that.

Honesty, with a real and true friend, is only "risky" in the sense that you determine that they aren't that good of a friend in the first place. If you form a friendship based on that level of honesty, you will have something that you can treasure for years, regardless of whether you become his girlfriend/wife or whatever.

Very true, I think I will (though I'm kind of nervous about it). That last paragraph is exactly why I feel the need to clear this up, I don't want him to believe, or make decisions based on falsehood (that I said in fear and confusion)-- regardless of what that decision might be.

Honestly, I think I'm more worried about upsetting his girlfriend (as I said, I know her) or that she would think ill of me for reaching out. She's a 1, and I'm afraid she'd see it as a criminal offense.

 

[uumlau]

Honestly, I think I'm more worried about upsetting his girlfriend (as I said, I know her) or that she would think ill of me for reaching out. She's a 1, and I'm afraid she'd see it as a criminal offense.

Hahahahahaha!!!!

Um, yeah.

You might want to stress to him that your message is in confidence. I don't believe that would be dishonest in this case.

 

[small.wonder]

Yeah it sounds like he is having a hard time understanding and determining whether or not he wants a commitment, and may even be second guessing what exactly this situation entails. He may be hesitant to move foreward with it because while he does or may feel some sort of connection with you, and he may have that passion, it may just be a bit stampeded by his ability to see both positives and negatives.

Yeah, I do think that's mostly all true. He likes us both, and is torn. What are the odds that a 9 would risk rocking the boat of his current (if new) relationship, to consider his feelings for someone else though? When he said what he did, I was shocked because it was very overt coming from him (and pretty controversial considering his relationship status).

He just wants to keep his options open, and he probably doesn't realize at all the push and pull odd effect this might be having. I know that when I am confused about something, or am thinking something over, I sort of withdraw emotionally from the situation, to really think about it. But it generally isn't visible, and since I am able to detatch myself at times away from it- to compartmentalize it I am able to put on an amiable face- and occasionally it seems that the more obviously friendly I am with someone the more I am trying to hide, from them and myself. Because I wouldn't want to threaten a comfortable situation, I put more energy forth.

If he was just being passively amiable, I'd see that as normal (it's kind of his default demeanor), but he was being passively attentive.

The thing you said about hiding from yourself and others through friendliness: do you think then, that he's just being attentive because he doesn't want me to be upset that he's dating someone? You know, fear of separation and all that.

I responded positively when he first told me, and have even said that I could see them being a good match. It honestly didn't really effect me, we even went right back to talking and joking right after. I guess I don't see how I could have given him cause to think he needs to smooth anything over. ?

Come back to this later

K, thanks for your thoughts!

 

[small.wonder]

Hahahahahaha!!!!

Um, yeah.

You might want to stress to him that your message is in confidence. I don't believe that would be dishonest in this case.

Yeah. I don't think he'd share it (or anything involving me) with her anyway, considering the fact that he was the instigator-- that would include explaining what he said about the picture.

She was there this weekend too, just serving in a different capacity, and I felt some intense energy any time we passed or interacted with each other...so not sure what's going on there. Maybe it's just because she knows we are friends. I actually kind of like her (I don't know her well) and don't want to cause hard feelings. I never realized how tough being in a situation like this is-- perhaps b/c I usually take the easy route and just kill my feelings.

 

[Enygmatic]

The Point: One such person is a guy who is part of my team (there are thirty different ones, each with around eight leaders) that I've become friends with over the past year. He's a 9w1, healthy enough to be funny and speak his mind, but does tend to listen more than talk. There is chemistry there, and we clearly enjoy each other's company, but he's never asked me out or been forthcoming. Then, in the spring, I asked him about the mushroom foraging that he does and we ended up planning to go together. It was really fun and we had good conversation, but I just didn't feel like he was interested-- never once held a branch back for me, and kind of kept a lot of physical distance between us the whole time. Afterwards, I just thought maybe he's not interested. The next few days though, included texting me pictures of wildflowers I had mentioned I liked, and inviting me to a bonfire at his house.

After that, things kind of tapered off. He was traveling, and summer came and I wrote it off. Then, on Friday when I saw him again, he was all charm and warmth. Quick to help me with things, joking and flirting with me. When we were about to get on the bus to leave for camp, he mentioned that he just started dating someone (that I know). This would not have confused or bothered me at all, if he hadn't just been flirting with me. I expressed my happiness for them, though, and thought that would be the end of it. The rest of the weekend he was still warm, if slightly less flirtatious, until a mutual good friend took a picture of us. She posted it on Instagram, and we were commenting what a nice picture it was (more for color and composition than anything else) he said, "yeah, it would be better if we were dating though." How does one respond to that?!

So like an idiot (and out of confusion and fear), I said something to the effect of "nah, we're like siblings." I think I said it to protect him, and prevent him from emotionally cheating on his new girlfriend, but also to protect myself from the embarrassment of admitting I kind of like him (when he's dating someone else). His response was to say nothing, and kind of look away. It felt like disappointment (I could be wrong, but) like saying that was his passive way of admitting he wants to date me? So what does that mean? That he's just having second thoughts about his girlfriend, or am I just reading way too into this...? I do know men have been intimidated by me in that past, so that could be it.

The thing I'm working on with my therapist at the moment, is trusting my intuition (because I was invalidated a lot growing up). Do you think my instincts are correct in this scenario? I'd love to hear thoughts from some 9's!

Thank you for copying and pasting it. I'm afraid I don't have much experience in love and I think it would be disservice to you if I offered any advice as far better advice has been given. All the best with your relationships and I hope you find the answer you are looking for.

 

[ceecee]

The result of my anger was a fairly long email, expressing in detail what I was angry about, why I was angry, and setting boundaries. This is/was a close friend of mine, and the friendship may well be over. The funny thing is, I'm not sad or regretful about it. The thing I was angry about is absolutely unacceptable in a friendship (lying, and not little white lies, and a repeated pattern of lying about a particular topic over and over again). If this is what they're like when push comes to shove, then I'd be ill advised to rely on or otherwise trust them as I had been. I even understand why they did what they did, and I am fairly sure that they'd do it again in spite of their denials.

It takes 9w8's awhile to get there (because they're 9's and well, we know what they don't like) but when they get there - woah. The Bruce Banner/Hulk comparison is exactly right. And what is Bruce Banner/Hulk's secret? He's always angry. And yes there are times I probably prod my ENFJ saying things like - It's good to meet you, Dr. Banner. You're work on anti-electron collisions is unparalleled. And I'm a huge fan of the way you lose control and turn into an enormous green rage monster.

Because when a person has it coming from a 9w8, REALLY has it coming, man, it's a thing of beauty.

 

[uumlau]

It takes 9w8's awhile to get there (because they're 9's and well, we know what they don't like) but when they get there - woah. The Bruce Banner/Hulk comparison is exactly right. And what is Bruce Banner/Hulk's secret? He's always angry.

That's not the secret.

Everyone is "always angry". Banner just needs to remain aware of it so it doesn't take him by surprise. That's the mature 9 tactic. In my recent example, while I started out unaware, the second bit hit me while I was completely 100% aware.

And yes there are times I probably prod my ENFJ saying things like - It's good to meet you, Dr. Banner. You're work on anti-electron collisions is unparalleled. And I'm a huge fan of the way you lose control and turn into an enormous green rage monster.

Because when a person has it coming from a 9w8, REALLY has it coming, man, it's a thing of beauty.

I can only imagine that coming from an ENFJ. ENFJs come up with the best moral arguments evah!

As an INTJ 9w8 ... it's a bit different. As an INTJ, it isn't as if I'm lacking confidence in my convictions. The 9 side is just telling me, "No, saying your convictions right now will just bore the crap out of people and get you nowhere." When it finally come out with anger driving it, it's coldly ruthless and efficient. No Fe in sight. Just a list of damning evidence and inescapable conclusions. It's kind of like finally being free to launch my full INTJ arrogance without having to worry about the consequences. Because my 9 side has finally concluded, "Fuck this bullshit. Either they'll see sense or I'll break contact with them."

Also, on that last note, the 9w8 anger is very much a "cornered rat" anger. The REASON the anger can be let out is that there is nothing left to lose. The reason that the 9w8 staying in touch with that anger is helpful is that it is easier in that state to determine whether one should keep fishing or cut bait.

It's kind of a sad truth in intimate relationships that the one who cares the least has the most power. The dynamic of the 9w8 in this case is one of caring more, thus preventing expression of anger, becoming a state of caring not at all, and thus having all the power. (One can still have a preferred result, of course, but NOT CARE whether that preferred result is achieved.)

 

[Ene]

I have a hard time understanding what being a 9w8 would mean. 9 and 8 seem like polar opposites to me. 9w1 I can kind of relate to, because those two methods of internalizing anger seem more related to one another. Does it have something to do with how you relate to the idea of peace? Are 9w8 folks just angrier in general?

OOOOOOoooo....I am coming in late, but I want to talk about this, too! I love how [MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION] calls it cornered rat anger. That is a very appropriate term. And I love how [MENTION=4050]ceecee[/MENTION] says,

Because when a person has it coming from a 9w8, REALLY has it coming, man, it's a thing of beauty.

Sometimes, I guess it is, but I don't feel beautiful afterwards. Still, it has its advantages.

A snippet from real life. It was summer 2010. My dad had been rushed to the hospital. He had cancer. His brothers and sisters showed up and right in front of him started talking about his death! I played it cool until I got them all in the waiting room then I literally, and I do mean literally, stomped my foot at them, pointed my finger and told them in a voice icy enough to slice flesh, "He ain't dead yet. If you can't say something positive in front of him, then go home." They all got nervous and fidgety and then, they went home.

Another example of 9w8. I was ten years old and in the fifth grade. We had been to see a movie in the auditorium. Then we went to lunch. The girl in line behind me had made fun of me all year. She had laughed at me and made rude remarks about me. I let it slide. It didn't matter what she thought about me, but that day she compared my granny whom she had seen me with in town to a goat in the movie. Without any warning, I turned around and slapped her as hard as I could. Then I said, "If you ever say another word about my granny. I will rip your ears off." That girl never spoke to me or made fun of me again, including the rest of middle school and high school!

And here's another that just came to mind; when I was in eight grade, I had just gotten a standing ovation for a performance in a school talent show. I was putting my costume in my locker when a girl, the class bully, who was much larger than I, shoved me into the locker and started cussing me and calling me names. She grabbed my stuff and flung it across the room. I said nothing, but I hit her as hard as I could hit her, right in the eye. I knocked her glasses off. She put her hands over her injured eye and ran away, screaming. Her boyfriend, who was even bigger than she was, came over to defend her, he said something to me. I can't remember what it was, only that he was attempting to intimidate me. But it just made me madder, so I hit him, too, fast and hard, with both my fists [I didn't know kung fu yet or I might have been a more 9 and a little less 8. haha.] I lit into him and didn't let up. I had put up with that girl all year, bossing me and harassing me, slurring me and messing with me, but the day she physically assaulted me, I guess I must have just turned green and gotten big [keeping with the Hulk thing here.] The next week, her boyfriend broke up with her and asked me out. I never dated him, but he pursued me the remainder of the year. Go figure. You beat a guy up and then he wants to date you. Geesh.

 

[uumlau]

The next week, her boyfriend broke up with her and asked me out. I never dated him, but he pursued me the remainder of the year. Go figure. You beat a guy up and then he wants to date you. Geesh.

Enneagram 8

If you fight back, they respect you.

 

[ceecee]

OOOOOOoooo....I am coming in late, but I want to talk about this, too! I love how [MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION] calls it cornered rat anger. That is a very appropriate term. And I love how [MENTION=4050]ceecee[/MENTION] says, Sometimes, I guess it is, but I don't feel beautiful afterwards. Still, it has its advantages.

I know you don't. And I know the whole time it's going on (like with my ENFJ) and I'm watching him and thinking..YES! YES! YOU WILL CUT A BITCH! I KNEW YOU HAD IT IN YOU!!! Then.....rage hangover. So I need to be there for him. This is where I wish I could do it for him. I know I can't and it wouldn't even be healthy but I really want to.

 

[Ene]

I know you don't. And I know the whole time it's going on (like with my ENFJ) and I'm watching him and thinking..YES! YES! YOU WILL CUT A BITCH! I KNEW YOU HAD IT IN YOU!!! Then.....rage hangover. So I need to be there for him. This is where I wish I could do it for him. I know I can't and it wouldn't even be healthy but I really want to.

Yes! That's it exactly!!!

 

[uumlau]

For the record, I don't have a "rage hangover". I dunno if that's the NFJ vs NTJ difference. I feel cleansed by fire, more or less.

I'm not saying I have no leftover anger or stress (that appears to have popped up elsewhere in my interactions), but I feel no shame or energy drain w/r to it.

 

[ceecee]

For the record, I don't have a "rage hangover". I dunno if that's the NFJ vs NTJ difference. I feel cleansed by fire, more or less.

I'm not saying I have no leftover anger or stress (that appears to have popped up elsewhere in my interactions), but I feel no shame or energy drain w/r to it.

I think it's the NTJ thing. I don't know that we're really capable of feeling shame the way NFJ's can. I never feel shame but I do have some residual stuff - like the scum you have to skim off when you make chicken stock.

 

[Frosty]

I don't generally get 'rage hangovers', it's more like a slow decline off a peak. I get really tense, and then totally absorb myself in thoughts surrounding that intensity until they peak, and then it all just kind of evaporates. I have a ridiculously difficult time holding grudges, because I can usually understand the whys around it.