Do you agree?

[Yama]

So instead of going back-and-forth on visitor message, I'm just gonna make this an open-to-all discussion cuz now I'm curious and want all of the opinions from everyone (and threads are easier than PMs and visitor messages anyway).

According to [MENTION=16405]Entropic[/MENTION] I am not ESFJ and am not Fe. What do you all think and why? I'll tag a few of you that I think have seen enough of my posts around the forum recently to have a general image of me or at least can remember who I am Specifically, interested in Entropic's reasoning for this when he comes back online, and then want to hear others' opinions. Am I even a little bit recognizable to anyone around here yet to do this?

 

[Frosty]

If I had to guess based soley on how you come off to me I would think that you are an ISFJ. You seem pretty reflective to me, and from what I have read ISFJs can come off as very extroverted. You do seem to have a significant amount of Si, and a fairly decent amount of Fe. I really am no expert in typing, especially compared to some of the other people on this site, but you just seem to give off a sort of innate friendliness (good for you seriously... Jealous) that seems to indicate to me high Fe. While I have not seen all of your posts ISFJ would be my guess.

I was actually thinking about you earlier. Some of your posts do sound Fi, but Fe seems as if it can come off very much sounding like Fi. I would be interested to hear [MENTION=16405]Entropic[/MENTION] reasoning though beyond what he posted on your wall.

 

[HongDou]

The only other type I thought about for you so far was ISFJ, but that could just be the 9w1 making the preference for extroversion less clear. Nothing seemed that out of place to make me wonder about any other type for you so I guess I'd have to see what he says.

 

[Yama]

Sorry for taking a long time to reply, I was at work and then had a friend come over. Glad I got some replies, thanks guys, it means a lot to me

Posting this quote here for reference so no one had to bother going to my profile to access it if needed:

Based on the posts you wrote about gender and feminism. You strike me as an Fi-Te type and specifically Fi-Te and Se-Ni, so some kind of xSFP, though I could also see xNFP but I don't think so based on your rant about your private life experiences which seemed to take it very much in an "as is" kind of way, typical of Se. Events happen objectively. The reason why I think this is because you didn't place very much emphasis on emotional expressions and talking about values in an objective way e.g. love inspires us to make a change in the world or something like that. Instead you were focused on the factual aspect of the situation. I know ESFJs and Fe types in general when I see them and you frankly didn't come across as one at all. Too to the point, direct, factual. Fe types tend to shy away from facts. They find a factual way of seeing the world upsetting and it's upsetting because facts interrupt the emotional experiences they perceive us all to share together. Facts may say things about the situation and people that can hurt people's feelings and Fe types are very keen on maintaining and preserving this kind of harmony. I have a video interview with an ESFJ on my channel. It's this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVyqgWDv1yw

Here's an interview with an ENFJ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CasiL3qr4-o

Not sure if [MENTION=16405]Entropic[/MENTION] has seen this thread or would just rather keep it to the visitor messages so I'll make replies to both places.

I don't identify with Se or Ni at all, I am definitely Si and Ne. Events are definitely subjective to me, so not sure where that part of it came from. At times I have doubted if I am Fe, because despite never having not tested as Fe, I felt like I wasn't a "good enough" person to be Fe (not to imply that Fi is not just as good, of course). I think the reason I come off that way is because well, it's a forum, so I'm on here to discuss specific topics (whatever those end up being), so I try to be as clear as possible, there's no face-to-face or expressions and a lot of communication can be lost that way, which is why I always say things like "sarcasm is too hard to understand when written and not in person". If I come off as factual it's because I'm just trying to stay on topic and not derail threads, share my experiences and what I know on the subject matter to keep the thread going and specifically to give others input and education where needed on the subject of stuff in like the transgender thread. I don't think it's impossible to be both Fe and "direct". As for like Fe and hurting people's feelings... I don't think facts necessarily upset social harmony (if that's what you meant), I mean they can, but not as a rule. Like I literally will do things I do not want to do just to avoid upsetting others (most recent example that comes to mind is my coworker basically talked me into buying some coffee to support her online business, I thought it was gonna be like 20 bucks so I said sure, she said it's gonna be 45, I've led her on too long to back out now. My ISTJ friend thinks I'm insane and need to tell her "no" but like how can I do that now without being rude?? She's already got the stuff and said she's going to bring it to me). This could also just be a 9 thing, of course. I don't really think I've ever said anything on this forum that would hurt people's feelings? Or anywhere for that matter, I'm like the last person on earth who would ever do something to intentionally upset someone else, but I don't think not wanting to cause trouble is exclusively Fe.

The thing about forums is that I think there are more ways for people to interpret you than being face to face; there's a lot of time to think and reflect between posts and waiting for replies, and you have time to go back and add things to your posts that you forget to add beforehand since it's in writing and you're not talking verbally, so you're able to be a lot more clear which comes off as "direct". I think a lot of communication can get lost in nonverbal communication which is why I am constantly trying to be as clear as possible and often ask others to ask me for clarification if needed after I'm done making a longer or more substantial post. I think if you saw how I was with friends or at work or in person in general, rather than on a forum where we are limited, the opinion might differ somewhat, but I am still not unwilling to listen to anyone's reasoning for my type, I like to hear what other people think of me and compare it to how I see myself. I was mostly surprised by this because I have never not tested as an SFJ of some kind, so I found it interesting to hear your take on the matter.


As for those who say ISFJ or ESFJ, I could see both. I've had [MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION] say the same as [MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION] hat the 9w1 could just make me low-key ESFJ, though I'd consider myself ambiverted. In one thread I made a while back [MENTION=6554]DisneyGeek[/MENTION] told me that the I vs E distinction should not be made on social preference, but energy levels, and that having a mental illness like depression might affect that. Which, yeah, I have (unmedicated) depresison that runs through both sides of my family, which affects my "energy" levels (obviously, lowers them). Then I was asked if, before depression really became more prevalent, if I had more or less energy, and I was definitely sort of a "hyperactive" kid. I won an award once in school for "most outgoing", but then, I was also at the same time sort of a social outcast because of mean peers. So that's one way I got ESFJ. The other way was by the functions; although I think my Si and (potential?? since we're having an open discussion here) Fe are pretty equal and it's hard for me to distinguish which one I use more.
[MENTION=24643]Frosty6226[/MENTION] - glad you think I'm friendly I come off as likable to pretty much everyone I come across, thank god, I would not have it any other way. Although sometimes it backfires, I have a coworker who doesn't seem to like me very much because I come off as too "cheerful" to him. He makes fun of me every time I say "hi" to him when he passes by. That kinds hurts Also... people actually think of me? LOL I'm honored.

What could I do / what questions could I answer to make Si or Fe preference more obvious? If I am an xSFJ at all, that is, as Entropic would disagree. I am also curious as to what areas/parts of my posts are the ones that come off as Fi to people, and how they distinguish it from Fe.

Lastly, sorry to drag y'all into this, I just figured since that it was Entropic that brought the subject of my type up this time it would be different from my regularly scheduled "affirm or deny my type for me!!!" threads

 

[HongDou]

Yeah, considering type is focused on mindsets rather than behavior and you don't think facts are that upsetting then I trust your opinion of yourself. It's definitely not impossible for Fe to be direct either - one of my best friends is an ENFJ 3w2 and she's one of the most direct people I know.

Sorry I haven't been providing much supporting arguments, I've just gotten tired of writing so much on here. My full out type analyses come out once in a blue moon.

 

[Yama]

Yeah, considering type is focused on mindsets rather than behavior and you don't think facts are that upsetting then I trust your opinion of yourself. It's definitely not impossible for Fe to be direct either - one of my best friends is an ENFJ 3w2 and she's one of the most direct people I know.

Sorry I haven't been providing much supporting arguments, I've just gotten tired of writing so much on here. My full out type analyses come out once in a blue moon.

Oh, it's no problem! I don't expect people to give me elaborate essays on my type when they can only know so much about me through my posts during my time on this forum. But yeah, I don't think one can only be Fe or direct and not both. And I don't think it's impossible for Fe people to have some strong opinions that they're passionate about either, which might come off as Fi. I mean, I think it's impossible for anyone to perfectly fit into the mold of any one function. That's why MBTI is, at the end of the day, just a fun personality theory thing.

 

[HongDou]

And I don't think it's impossible for Fe people to have some strong opinions that they're passionate about either

Wait, that's not what he was saying was it?? Because Tyra Banks and Martin Luther King Jr. are some ESFJs who beg to differ.

 

[Yama]

Wait, that's not what he was saying was it?? Because Tyra Banks and Martin Luther King Jr. are some ESFJs who beg to differ.

I don't know, did I misinterpret it? There was a lot of stuff I covered in that post so I could have got it mixed up with things I've heard people say in the past about Fe and Fi stuff, I am tired, I could be wrong

 

[Showbread]

Sorry I took so long to respond! I've been all over the place lately. My vote would potentially be for ISFJ, if anything else. Will elaborate after work.

 

[laterlazer]

I have barely any insight tbh but you definitely remind me of a friend who I've typed as ISFJ.

 

[Entropic]

Sorry for taking a long time to reply, I was at work and then had a friend come over. Glad I got some replies, thanks guys, it means a lot to me

Posting this quote here for reference so no one had to bother going to my profile to access it if needed:



Not sure if @Entropic has seen this thread or would just rather keep it to the visitor messages so I'll make replies to both places.

I don't identify with Se or Ni at all, I am definitely Si and Ne. Events are definitely subjective to me, so not sure where that part of it came from.

What do you mean with that events subjective?

At times I have doubted if I am Fe, because despite never having not tested as Fe, I felt like I wasn't a "good enough" person to be Fe (not to imply that Fi is not just as good, of course). I think the reason I come off that way is because well, it's a forum, so I'm on here to discuss specific topics (whatever those end up being), so I try to be as clear as possible, there's no face-to-face or expressions and a lot of communication can be lost that way, which is why I always say things like "sarcasm is too hard to understand when written and not in person". If I come off as factual it's because I'm just trying to stay on topic and not derail threads, share my experiences and what I know on the subject matter to keep the thread going and specifically to give others input and education where needed on the subject of stuff in like the transgender thread. I don't think it's impossible to be both Fe and "direct".

You are right that it's not impossible for Fe to be direct in that sense, but Fe types are decidedly not factual, especially not ego ones. Fe is most of all about emotional expression and I don't see you placing emphasis on that all. Another thing I don't see you doing which is typical of Fe types is that you don't value drop and treating and speaking of values objectively.

As for like Fe and hurting people's feelings... I don't think facts necessarily upset social harmony (if that's what you meant), I mean they can, but not as a rule.

And that is precisely why I don't think you are an Fe dom. Fe doms definitely think facts upset the harmony and that facts and factual ways of communicating should therefore be avoided.

Like I literally will do things I do not want to do just to avoid upsetting others (most recent example that comes to mind is my coworker basically talked me into buying some coffee to support her online business, I thought it was gonna be like 20 bucks so I said sure, she said it's gonna be 45, I've led her on too long to back out now.

Being conflict-avoidant is not the same as not wanting to upset the emotional harmony, though.

My ISTJ friend thinks I'm insane and need to tell her "no" but like how can I do that now without being rude?? She's already got the stuff and said she's going to bring it to me). This could also just be a 9 thing, of course. I don't really think I've ever said anything on this forum that would hurt people's feelings? Or anywhere for that matter, I'm like the last person on earth who would ever do something to intentionally upset someone else, but I don't think not wanting to cause trouble is exclusively Fe.

But see, here you are treating people and their feelings as individuals, which is an Fi thing to do, not Fe.

The thing about forums is that I think there are more ways for people to interpret you than being face to face;

Correct, but

there's a lot of time to think and reflect between posts and waiting for replies, and you have time to go back and add things to your posts that you forget to add beforehand since it's in writing and you're not talking verbally, so you're able to be a lot more clear which comes off as "direct".

This doesn't change the fact that types decidedly ultimately communicate very differently and how they choose to phrase their own ways of self-expression often tends to belie their cognition e.g. someone who keeps talking about the facts is quite likely to be a Te type, and someone who keeps talking about the objective reality is likely some kind of ESTx etc.

I think a lot of communication can get lost in nonverbal communication which is why I am constantly trying to be as clear as possible and often ask others to ask me for clarification if needed after I'm done making a longer or more substantial post. I think if you saw how I was with friends or at work or in person in general, rather than on a forum where we are limited, the opinion might differ somewhat, but I am still not unwilling to listen to anyone's reasoning for my type, I like to hear what other people think of me and compare it to how I see myself. I was mostly surprised by this because I have never not tested as an SFJ of some kind, so I found it interesting to hear your take on the matter.

Then would you mind a type me interview? A video one.

As for those who say ISFJ or ESFJ, I could see both. I've had @Hard say the same as @Chanaynay hat the 9w1 could just make me low-key ESFJ, though I'd consider myself ambiverted. In one thread I made a while back @DisneyGeek told me that the I vs E distinction should not be made on social preference, but energy levels, and that having a mental illness like depression might affect that. Which, yeah, I have (unmedicated) depresison that runs through both sides of my family, which affects my "energy" levels (obviously, lowers them). Then I was asked if, before depression really became more prevalent, if I had more or less energy, and I was definitely sort of a "hyperactive" kid. I won an award once in school for "most outgoing", but then, I was also at the same time sort of a social outcast because of mean peers. So that's one way I got ESFJ. The other way was by the functions; although I think my Si and (potential?? since we're having an open discussion here) Fe are pretty equal and it's hard for me to distinguish which one I use more.

What do you mean potential, here? And how exactly are you Fe in terms of the functions?

 

[Yama]

What do you mean with that events subjective?

When I recall an event I recall how I felt about it, not just remembering it for what it was. Like if I was in a situation that made me really anxious, and later need to recall it for whatever reason, that feeling of anxiousness comes along with it; rather than an "it is what it is" mindset I'd be like "it sucked because something happened that I didn't like." If that makes sense at all

You are right that it's not impossible for Fe to be direct in that sense, but Fe types are decidedly not factual, especially not ego ones. Fe is most of all about emotional expression and I don't see you placing emphasis on that all. Another thing I don't see you doing which is typical of Fe types is that you don't value drop and treating and speaking of values objectively.

Sorry what is drop and treating? I'm not familiar with the expression. Also can I ask for an example of how I'm factual, I'm really tired from work and anything that's not specifics is becoming lost on me

And that is precisely why I don't think you are an Fe dom. Fe doms definitely think facts upset the harmony and that facts and factual ways of communicating should therefore be avoided.

Doesn't it depend on what facts?? We're starting to get a little too abstract here for me to follow, eep sorry I'm not the smartest. What are factual ways of communicating vs. what Fe communicates?

But see, here you are treating people and their feelings as individuals, which is an Fi thing to do, not Fe.

Why is this??

Then would you mind a type me interview? A video one.

Depends, my free time is all between the hours of like 10pm and 4am in my time zone (Arizona Mountian Time, no DST) because of the hours I work/sleep. I don't know what time zone you're in

Edit: forgot to mention that my days off this upcoming week are monday and tuesday, so anything after ~2pm (az time) would also work for me those days as well

What do you mean potential, here? And how exactly are you Fe in terms of the functions?

I used the word potential because we're having an open discussion of whether I am Fe or not, so I used "potential" to kinda like keep it open

Not sure how to answer the second part. Because I've always identified with descriptions of Fe and always tested as Fe, I guess? I guess that also all depends on where those descriptions come from. I was just a little surprised cuz I've never not tested as Fe before, and never had anyone else question that I was Fe

Is it because I'm a 9? Wait do we even all agree on if I'm 9 or not. How could we tell if I'm a Fe 9 or a Fi user who also happens to be a 9? Do I need to answer a questionnaire? Sorry for asking a lot of questions, I'm very tired so I need lots of clarification

 

[Yama]

I'm not sure how "correct" any of this information is, I found it on this thread at PerC, but here's what I've been able to find:

Fi Type-9 (The Lobbyist/The Idea Advocate)
Interested in maintaining inner-peace. Inner-peace takes precedence over interpersonal peace.
"Let's all agree."
Inner conflicts: When the person senses a difference between what s/he values and how s/he is acting, the person is compelled to force congruence between inner values and his/her actions in order to restore equilibrium. This might manifest as increased focus and self-discipline in the area of conflict. For instance, if the value is environmentalism, and the person relies heavily on fast food (where the containers are either not recyclable or not actually recycled), then the person might inwardly chastise himself/herself and renew efforts to quit fast food, pack his/her own food, and save recyclable containers to recycle at home.
Interpersonal conflicts: Such conflict is thought of more in terms of content than procedure. This might manifest in regard to an important (closely-held) value when someone else expresses an opposing point of view or fundamentally incompatible value. For example, if the value is environmentalism, and someone else says, "Job creation should always come before the environment, so lets drill oil anywhere we can find it," then the person is likely to internally disconnect from the person who said that, and then verbally engage them (to try to force the other person to validate or accept the person's value). Failing here, the person will then physically withdraw from the situation. Even if the person who announced an opposing value apologizes, the person is unlikely to reconcile (unless the other person changes his/her value to be the same).

Fe Type-9 (The Mediator)
Interested in maintaining peace in the outer-environment--interpersonal peace.
"Let's all get along."
Inner conflicts: When the person senses a difference between what s/he values and how s/he is acting, the person first considers whether a congruence between inner values and his/her actions would upset or inconvenience other people or disrupt the group, and next would consider whether the value is normal (held by other people they like, look up to, or are in the same group with). Once the value is "ratified," then the person will act in congruence with his/her inner values. This person is unlikely to stand firmly on a personal value that has not been ratified--inner values cannot be fully accepted if they are not seen to be of value and held by others in the external world. The process of settling inner conflict involves the outer world--unlike the Fi Type 9. For instance, if the value is environmentalism, and the person relies heavily on fast food (where the containers are either not recyclable or not actually recycled), then the person may renew efforts to quit fast food, pack his/her own food, and save recyclable containers to recycle at home--so long as such behavior is not seen as strange (or at least is tolerated) and does not inconvenience anyone else (important to that person).
Interpersonal conflicts: Such conflict is thought of more in terms of procedure than content. This might manifest in regard to any value (closely-held or not), regardless of whether the person is in agreement with value or not, that is expressed in a hostile, inconsiderate, impolite, or stubborn manner. For example, if the value is environmentalism, and someone else says, "Job creation should always come before the environment, so lets drill oil anywhere we can find it. Anybody who thinks differently is an idiot!" then, so long as there are other people who hold an opposing view within the group, the person is likely to verbally engage the other person (to try to force the other person to communicate their personal values in a peaceful/non-conflict-causing manner). Failing here, the person will then internally disconnect from the person who said that, and next try to expel that person from the group. Failing here, the person will then physically withdraw from the situation. If the person who un-peacefully announced an opposing value apologizes, the person is likely to reconcile (even if some inner hostility toward that person remains). However, the person is unlikely ever to fully internally connect with that person, again. Here the personal value of environmentalism takes a back seat to the behavioral/interactive/procedural values of courtesy, kindness, and respect.

Based on these descriptions of Fi and Fe type 9s, if they are solid descriptions and if we are even in agreement that I am a 9 at all, I would still say that I resonate much more with the second description in the quote above.

 

[Cygnus]

It's interesting what you said about Si being about "subjective experience." I was just contemplating that possible definition earlier today. It matches up with the "Ne = Potential/Ni = Destination/Se = Experience" schema far better than the "oneness with the body and ability to go into subzero temperatures without a coat like a Tibetan monk" definition would.


I'm going to arbitrarily rattle out the possibility that you may be ESTP 9.

 

[Yama]

It's interesting what you said about Si being about "subjective experience." I was just contemplating that possible definition earlier today. It matches up with the "Ne = Potential/Ni = Destination/Se = Experience" schema far better than the "oneness with the body and ability to go into subzero temperatures without a coat like a Tibetan monk" definition would.


I'm going to arbitrarily rattle out the possibility that you may be ESTP 9.

Curious, if/when you have the time would you explain your reasoning for thinking ESTP as a possibility? Especially why Se-dom

 

[Entropic]

[MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION] you can book a time here: The Typologist

 

[Yama]

[MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION] you can book a time here: The Typologist

okay I think I did it right, 1400 my time on may 11th, so ~23 hours from the time I am posting this post. Did it on my phone cuz I'm at work so hopefully I did that right

 

[Yama]

Might upload a quick video of me later answering a few of the video challenge questionnaire questions

 

[Yama]

Please ignore my general dorkiness, the crappy video/audio quality and my awkward pre-T ness <3

 

[Oaky]

Please ignore my general dorkiness, the crappy video/audio quality and my awkward pre-T ness <3

Wooden planks are wonderful things lux. Always rather strange in their own ways too. >.>