What type is House?

[Blackmail!]

Seriously, ...

I stopped reading after that word.

 

[Emotionalogic]

Are you Kamishi's second attempt at glory?

Er, no? At least, I don't think so. I'd have to have some idea of what you mean before I can say for sure.

 

[Salomé]

....why does he look exactly like an INTJ whose too depressed to engage in much long term planning?

because you want him too? Sooooo much. Because maybe then he can provide inspiration to all those depressed, hopeless INTJs who desperately want to matter, and yet...don't?

You've just stated that no INTJ could function IRL as House does. Yet you continue to strenuously insist that he is your type.
Yeah, what was that about logic again...?

 

[Riva]

No wonder the world is such a fucking mess. Almost 1000 posts devoted to debating the purely hypothetical type of a purely FICTIONAL character... There is no correct answer to be had. Unless you get a statement from the show's creator which says "I understand MBTI and wrote House as an INTJ" it doesn't matter what you think. Nor does it matter that most people disagree with you. I'm pretty sure Sir Arthur Conon Doyle didn't write Sherlock as an INTJ either. And not just because both characters have near superhuman powers of deduction, and as we all know, INTJs suck ass at deductive logic.What this debate does highlight though, is just how absurd the machinations of typology are. "Sure maybe he looks like an ENTP, but that just his inferior Se acting out." Lol. Reasoning thusly, any type can look like any other type. In short, it's a bunch of bollocks.Someone who spent 7? seasons in thrall to his inferior function would likely not be able to hold down a day job. House is a drug addict, routinely gets drunk, into fights, and hooks up with prostitutes. All without noticeably impeding his performance at work. He is a stimulation junkie. He is a prankster. He is a maverick. And a narcissist. (Despite this last, he is not an INTJ.) He cares about solving problems only to the point of achieving a diagnosis. He doesn't generally care whether his patients live or die - i.e he is not "results-oriented" at all. He doesn't care about his department's performance, as long as he has stimulating work to do. He will work a case even after the patient is dead. He is captivated by (apparently) unsolvable puzzles - that's a Ti thing. His whiteboard sessions are not evidence of Te - he doesn't proceed methodically. He doesn't plan what he is going to do. They are Ne brainstorming sessions. He often solves a problem via analogy - pure Ne. He proceeds by trial and error. He does nothing by the book. He improvises constantly. He is the opposite of conscientious. And he is never dull.It is always amusing to watch INTJs jumping through hoops to try to associate their type with someone charismatic though...

I think you shot yourself in the foot their when you said that house uses deductive logic. I was going to reply to it but [MENTION=19916]Emotionalogic[/MENTION] beat me to it; and did so with thoroughness I would have not have the patience to use. Regarding sherlock (author's version) he clearly uses 'deductive' logic to 'solve cases'. But what is fascinating isn't the logic he uses to solve cases but to read people. And the logic used to read people is inductive logic.

 

[Salomé]

And the logic used to read people is inductive logic.

What logic did you use to deduce that? Crazy logic?

 

[Emotionalogic]

because you want him too? Sooooo much. Because maybe then he can provide inspiration to all those depressed, hopeless INTJs who desperately want to matter, and yet...don't?

Whereas all ENTPs are happy, successful, beautiful people with absolutely no unfulfilled desires? Don't see why this bias would apply exclusively to INTJs. It's not like I try to claim every awesome person as an INTJ. I argued recently that Richard Dawkins is an INTP rather than an INTJ. On another note, why don't you stop insulting INTJs and deal with the arguments on the table?

You've just stated that no INTJ could function IRL as House does. Yet you continue to strenuously insist that he is your type.
Yeah, what was that about logic again...?

OK, listen carefully. It's. A. T.V. Show. it doesn't have to be realistic. House doesn't function in real life, he functions in a TV Show. Yes, House couldn't function in real life. That doesn't change the fact that he's an INTJ. Do you think labeling him ENTP would somehow make him more functional? Is that an example of the brilliant INTP deductive logic that I, as a lowly INTJ, can never and could never understand? Or are you just being facetious?

What logic did you use to deduce that? Crazy logic?

Oh, burn. I see what you mean about you and House having the same sense of humor.

 

[Anew Leaf]

Whereas all ENTPs are happy, successful, beautiful people with absolutely no unfulfilled desires? Don't see why this bias would apply exclusively to INTJs. It's not like I try to claim every awesome person as an INTJ. I argued recently that Richard Dawkins is an INTP rather than an INTJ. On another note, why don't you stop insulting INTJs and deal with the arguments on the table?



OK, listen carefully. It's. A. T.V. Show. it doesn't have to be realistic. House doesn't function in real life, he functions in a TV Show. Yes, House couldn't function in real life. That doesn't change the fact that he's an INTJ. Do you think labeling him ENTP would somehow make him more functional? Is that an example of the brilliant INTP deductive logic that I, as a lowly INTJ, can never and could never understand? Or are you just being facetious?

Oh, burn. I see what you mean about you and House having the same sense of humor.

@underline, This is the best post I have read all day. So much delicious irony. /is anemic.

I agree with [MENTION=10757]Nicodemus[/MENTION] in that you must be the new incarnation of LeaT/Kamishi.

 

[Emotionalogic]

@underline, This is the best post I have read all day. So much delicious irony. /is anemic.

I agree with [MENTION=10757]Nicodemus[/MENTION] in that you must be the new incarnation of LeaT/Kamishi.

I do think it extremely ironic that Salome insisted House must be XNTP because he's logical and witty, then tried to back it up by displaying her own logic and wit, and failing miserably at both, thereby unintentionally proving my point that wit and logic are far from unique to or guaranteed in XNTPs. It is also ironic that she insists I only want House to be an INTJ to make me feel better about my (presumed) inadequacy, all the while loudly proclaiming the inferiority of INTJs and the superiority of XNTPs.

 

[Anew Leaf]

I do think it extremely ironic that Salome insisted House must be XNTP because he's logical and witty, then tried to back it up by displaying her own logic and wit, and failing miserably at both, thereby unintentionally proving my point that wit and logic are far from unique to or guaranteed in XNTPs. It is also ironic that she insists I only want House to be an INTJ to make me feel better about my (presumed) inadequacy, all the while loudly proclaiming the inferiority of INTJs and the superiority of XNTPs.

I just think it's beautiful that you are talking down to her about how it's a TV show when you are getting your panties in a twist over a TV show at the same time. Especially a TV show that went off the air IN THE PAST.

Please. Continue.

 

[Emotionalogic]

Thank You.

My point wasn't that it's not worth talking about because it's a TV Show, its that you can't expect it to be realistic because it's a TV Show. And House comes off as scattered and improvisational because he's an unhealthy 5 who's showing 7 qualities, not because he's ENTP.

 

[Salomé]

I argued recently that Richard Dawkins is an INTP rather than an INTJ.

I guess some people just never tire of being wrong.

 

[RaptorWizard]

Maybe it depends on the context of the house we're talking about.

Then again, maybe it also depends on the house you want.

 

[hornet]

House clearly has Fe in his shadow.
His Se is inferior and he comes to Ni conclutions that are way ahead of anyone else,
leaving them WTF..., but then he pulls out all the facts Te necissary and case is closed.

Story is always some mysterious condition, Ni makes grand hypotesis and the rest of the episode is looking for Te evidence.
He regularly screws over protocol and the way things always have been done.
This disregard of Si is so over the top that it is clear that it isn't real for him.

Like walking into a cleanroom unprotected once he is convinced by the facts Te that it is safe.
Most people would respect the Si spirit of the rooms purpose, but not House.

Fe is also very low on his list, he don't have a problem with conversations,
it is conversations based on collective feeling that is the problem.
He regulary breaks both Fe and Si expectations of social norms, as if they don't excist.
Only NTJs are able to do that. House is too Ni heavy to be an ENTJ though.

People who type him anything else should perhaps have another look at "Psyhological types".
Or is that a first look?

 

[Dr Mobius]

House clearly has Fe in his shadow.
His Se is inferior and he comes to Ni conclusions that are way ahead of anyone else,
leaving them WTF..., but then he pulls out all the facts Te necessary and case is closed.

Story is always some mysterious condition, Ni makes a grand hypothesis and the rest of the episode is looking for Te evidence.

Eer no House makes an educated guess as to the likely ailment, which is proven wrong eliminating it; he continues to systematically take educated guesses until he gets it right.

He regularly screws over protocol and the way things always have been done.
This disregard of Si is so over the top that it is clear that it isn't real for him.

Your right it is over the top, because he does it on purpose; it’s a mixture of attention seeking and nihilistic apathy.

Like walking into a cleanroom unprotected once he is convinced by the facts Te that it is safe.
Most people would respect the Si spirit of the rooms purpose, but not House.

Like a lot of things that House does it’s a mixture of attention seeking, nihilistic apathy, and a massive ego. It has absolutely nothing to do with respect.

People who type him anything else should perhaps have another look at "Psyhological types".
Or is that a first look?

I have never understood why people play the whole read what Jung said argument. I have read it and he was vastly more concerned with introversion and extroversion which was what most of that book was about then functions; which as far as I can tell an offhand way to categorise the different forms. Secondly Jungs other works and his contemporaries Freud and Adler have all had their work either heavily modified or written off. Why exactly is Psychological Types off limits; an 80 year old psychology book is unlikely to hold up to modern light.

Anyway the problem with typing tv characters is that it’s not one person’s creation; I mean look at all the different directors and writers. It would probably be more accurate to diagnose him with Multiple Personality Disorder; actually you could probably throw the DSM at him and have a field day.

 

[hornet]

So we disagree then how wonderful.

Eer no House makes an educated guess as to the likely ailment, which is proven wrong eliminating it; he continues to systematically take educated guesses until he gets it right.

Yes and he uses the cognitive functions of Ni and Te to do it.
That is fairly obvious to me, but I know this will be a hard sell to someone from the opposite side of the spectrum,
who later in this post discount Jungs work mostly because of age.
A very Ne thing to do btw, this shit is too old, time for something new and improved.

Your right it is over the top, because he does it on purpose; it’s a mixture of attention seeking and nihilistic apathy.

Define on purpose?
When I use Se to pick up a glass to take a drink I do it on purpose too.
When house says the truth as he sees it it is of course on purpose.
Sure I see his nihilistic approach, but that would be more of his enneagram 8 stance disintegrating to 5 more than anything.
As for attention seeking.
Do you really think? That he is breaking the Fe/Si expectations around him too get attention?
To me it is obviously because he finds them meaningless and stupid.
I percieve the world very similarly, and I never do it for attention, but because I find it suffocating and controlling.

Like a lot of things that House does it’s a mixture of attention seeking, nihilistic apathy, and a massive ego. It has absolutely nothing to do with respect.

Please don't get hung up on semantics here.
When I say the word "respect" I'm referring to the "spirit worship" of Si.
Once something is a certain way it becomes nearly like a deity to Si.
Hence the clean room takes on almost a holy significance.
But since to dom Ni that is irrelevant and meaningless,
since it is at the bottom of the shadow it is disregarded immediately the facts don't warrant it.
I do that too all to often.
I guess society Fe with Si has coined the massive ego thing to keep types like us in check.
It is so much easier to coin ones opposing perspectives as deviant and unhealty than to accept them for who they are.

I have never understood why people play the whole read what Jung said argument. I have read it and he was vastly more concerned with introversion and extroversion which was what most of that book was about then functions; which as far as I can tell an offhand way to categorise the different forms. Secondly Jungs other works and his contemporaries Freud and Adler have all had their work either heavily modified or written off. Why exactly is Psychological Types off limits; an 80 year old psychology book is unlikely to hold up to modern light.

The age has nothing to do with it.
The reason we follow him is that he was the only one who actually went deep as in (Ni) deep into the subject.
Sure the introversion and extroversion topics are his main focus, but his observations on the different manifestation isn't insignificant.
I can't really say that any other area of psychology has broken any significant ground in this respect since.
Jungs ideas are ground breaking since they for the first time acknowledges significant polarities in human experience.
Unfortunately for you Jung used the Ni/Se axis making most of his great ideas of a very subjective nature.
As far as I can see the functions are observable and relevant every day I speak and interact with others.
Once I know a persons type their actions become ridiculously predictable.
You can sort people with it and be right on what type of person they are and how they will collide or not with your own type stance.
If you haven't observed this, then too bad for you.
I reap rewards everyday from this.
I know that my landlord for example is ESTJ. Hence I know that as long as I pay lip service to his Si static perspectives
by affirming it from a Te stance, everything will be allright.

Anyway the problem with typing tv characters is that it’s not one person’s creation; I mean look at all the different directors and writers. It would probably be more accurate to diagnose him with Multiple Personality Disorder; actually you could probably throw the DSM at him and have a field day.

Well I'll give you that.
Sure he will probably swing a bit here and there, but overall the character stays grounded in a certain type ultimately cause it is the interpretation of one actor.

As for the DSM...
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders published by American Psychiatric Association.
Well I dunno why you even wanna bring this tool from a totally different frame into this.
Jung was about empowering the individual from his own subjective frame to find a personal resolution to his psychologic problems.
That is what his system is about.
This tool on the other hand is from the other frame, we know what is wrong with you, listen to us the authorities.
Even when the label we pin on you boils down to a really advanced way of saying, we have no clue.
So we will give you a random drug that makes you really sleepy and unable to manifest anything at all.
We will call this an improvement, mostly because what is really improved is that the person isn't crossing norms and expectations of others.
Sure some conditions are valid and some drugs valid and helpful, but just looking at the history of that instument itself, makes one think twice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders

Superficial symptoms

By design, the DSM is primarily concerned with the signs and symptoms of mental disorders, rather than the underlying causes. It claims to collect them together based on statistical or clinical patterns. As such, it has been compared to a naturalist’s field guide to birds, with similar advantages and disadvantages.[54] The lack of a causative or explanatory basis, however, is not specific to the DSM, but rather reflects a general lack of pathophysiological understanding of psychiatric disorders. As DSM-III chief architect Robert Spitzer and DSM-IV editor Michael First outlined in 2005, "little progress has been made toward understanding the pathophysiological processes and etiology of mental disorders. If anything, the research has shown the situation is even more complex than initially imagined, and we believe not enough is known to structure the classification of psychiatric disorders according to etiology."

Cultural bias

Some psychiatrists also argue that current diagnostic standards rely on an exaggerated interpretation of neurophysiological findings and so understate the scientific importance of social-psychological variables.[67] Advocating a more culturally sensitive approach to psychology, critics such as Carl Bell and Marcello Maviglia contend that the cultural and ethnic diversity of individuals is often discounted by researchers and service providers.[68] In addition, current diagnostic guidelines have been criticized as having a fundamentally Euro-American outlook. Although these guidelines have been widely implemented, opponents argue that even when a diagnostic criteria set is accepted across different cultures, it does not necessarily indicate that the underlying constructs have any validity within those cultures; even reliable application can only demonstrate consistency, not legitimacy.[67] Cross-cultural psychiatrist Arthur Kleinman contends that the Western bias is ironically illustrated in the introduction of cultural factors to the DSM-IV: the fact that disorders or concepts from non-Western or non-mainstream cultures are described as "culture-bound", whereas standard psychiatric diagnoses are given no cultural qualification whatsoever, is to Kleinman revelatory of an underlying assumption that Western cultural phenomena are universal.[69] Kleinman's negative view towards the culture-bound syndrome is largely shared by other cross-cultural critics, common responses included both disappointment over the large number of documented non-Western mental disorders still left out, and frustration that even those included were often misinterpreted or misrepresented.[70] Many mainstream psychiatrists have also been dissatisfied with these new culture-bound diagnoses, although not for the same reasons. Robert Spitzer, a lead architect of the DSM-III, has held the opinion that the addition of cultural formulations was an attempt to placate cultural critics, and that they lack any scientific motivation or support. Spitzer also posits that the new culture-bound diagnoses are rarely used in practice, maintaining that the standard diagnoses apply regardless of the culture involved. In general, the mainstream psychiatric opinion remains that if a diagnostic category is valid, cross-cultural factors are either irrelevant or are only significant to specific symptom presentations.

Everything that crosses arbitrary cultural norms and boundaries can in theory get you put in a facility.
All your rights stripped away cause someone else didn't like your attitude.
To cross the excisting paradigm of a Si/Fe manifestation in a culture is probably the single most dangerous thing you do.
The ones who made these standards operated out of certain cultural expectations, and certain symptoms are suddenly abnormal.
You see this best when you move from country to country.
What is acceptable in one culture, will be viewed as deviant in another.

I will type him as INTJ 8w7 as of now.
Feel free to challenge it, but I probably care as little for your stance as you do for mine, if all you have is the age Jung lived in and the DSM.

 

[meowington]

House is an INTJ, Wilson is an INFJ and anyone who believes otherwise is a moron.

 

[Infinite Bubble]

Are people hoping that their argument is going to prevail or something, and that the opposing party is going to simply give in and agree? It's not going to happen because it's just someone's take on it - they'll come up with a subjective reason for why he has this or that function, try and make it fit into the mold. But then someone can propose other functions to make up for his personality. This is my take anyway, simplified:

Ne - He is thrill-seeking, bounces ideas around his teammates, rule-defying, pranking etc; it basically, along with Fe, creates his antics that make up the show.
Ti - Seeks "the truth" for its own sake rather than applied to something, analyses people in a detached manner (Ti > Fe), goes against Foreman's Te a lot, etc.
Fe - His outside world is based on people and society, and him affecting them in some way (usually for his own amusement). It's not based on logic. It's unhealthily used, but he is an unhealthy person. Ne-Fe is really what he uses in the outside world if you think about it.
Si - This as inferior supposedly creates an unhealthy obsession with the body, as sensation is orientated towards the self rather than the world.

Of course, one could argue about the sudden insights at the end of most episodes being Ni, his controlling behavior being Te, the seeming lack of empathy being Fi , and his sensory activities as Se, or something to that effect (and neither argument is wrong). Both Se and Si are proposed for his leg and Vicodin problem! That's how ridiculous typology is sometimes. If he were a real person, we'd all just say "well, it's his circumstances why he is the way he is. Many people would be like that if their leg hurt nonstop." Which would be the truth.

Oh, his Enneagram is at least a little more reasonable to propose. 5w4, 8w7, 3w4 most likely.

 

[hornet]

House is an INTJ, Wilson is an INFJ and anyone who believes otherwise is a moron.

Well I can understand your frustration.
But labeling someone a moron over their stance is a very poor approach.
I believe that either this stuff is real or just not there.
So far Ive seen quite a lot of evidence for it in my life.
However when one is addressing Ne/Si from an Se/Ni angle there is always disagreement,
cause there is a great divide on what is even being percieved.

Are people hoping that their argument is going to prevail or something, and that the opposing party is going to simply give in and agree? It's not going to happen because it's just someone's take on it - they'll come up with a subjective reason for why he has this or that function, try and make it fit into the mold. But then someone can propose other functions to make up for his personality. This is my take anyway, simplified:

Ne - He is thrill-seeking, bounces ideas around his teammates, rule-defying, pranking etc; it basically, along with Fe, creates his antics that make up the show.
Ti - Seeks "the truth" for its own sake rather than applied to something, analyses people in a detached manner (Ti > Fe), goes against Foreman's Te a lot, etc.
Fe - His outside world is based on people and society, and him affecting them in some way (usually for his own amusement). It's not based on logic. It's unhealthily used, but he is an unhealthy person. Ne-Fe is really what he uses in the outside world if you think about it.
Si - This as inferior supposedly creates an unhealthy obsession with the body, as sensation is orientated towards the self rather than the world.

Of course, one could argue about the sudden insights at the end of most episodes being Ni, his controlling behavior being Te, the seeming lack of empathy being Fi , and his sensory activities as Se, or something to that effect (and neither argument is wrong). Both Se and Si are proposed for his leg and Vicodin problem! That's how ridiculous typology is sometimes. If he were a real person, we'd all just say "well, it's his circumstances why he is the way he is. Many people would be like that if their leg hurt nonstop." Which would be the truth.

Oh, his Enneagram is at least a little more reasonable to propose. 5w4, 8w7, 3w4 most likely.

I like your tritype on House can't say I disagree at the moment.

No I don't expect anyone to give up.
I've long since accepted the unbridgeable gap of these divides.
This is more like a study for me.
Some guy uses argument of DSM, excellent opportunity to get to know what that is about a little better.
Then I formulate and\ argument back, not because I hope to reach him, but because I hope to understand it better trought the formulation.
I'm excercising my inferior function, making my life so much better in the process.

As for your nihilistic stance on Jungian types, well I dunno what to say.
I guess for Ne everything is flowy and can be molded into anything anyway.

Your take on cognitive functions seem very misapplied in my view.
Everybody says he is bouncing ideas off of his collegues.
So what?
To me it seems more like a Te gathering of info from his team.
Cause although he know a lot he doesn't know everything.
So he sucks them dry of info.
But when it comes to actually do something well that is very Te and Se based.
He wants results. And they deal with Te and Se object in other words facts and objects that can be sensed.
His Ni knows that is the object is sick then there will be an underlying condition.
So all he is about is pinpointing how he can rearrange the objects to make the patients healthy again.
His Te/Fi is very apparent, cause the way he clashes with Wilsons Fe/Ti.
Wilson and House can't see eye to eye on certain things, especially morality.
To House his Fe strikes him as putting on a show, to pretend to like someone.
House points this out in many of the conversations with his different staff members.
Why are you reffering this too me? And they will have different Fe and Fi reasons for doing so.
I loved the episode where Wilson wouldn't treat the homeless girl with rabies and House took it since he found it facinating that Wilson wouldn't.
Wilson had put her squarly into the camp of the others.

Your Ne can't consider my Se perspective as relevant as it is viewed as a joke.
Just as I view your Ne views as a joke.

I found it so amusing when my INFP ex had magical and totally misguided views on how basic things around us worked.
And how objects just disapeared for her and she would never find them or knock them over.
From a Se stance she was almost a bit "retarded" in that sense.

But her take on idealistic objects, like the Israel/Palestinian conflicts, oh she had views and it was so real to her.
To me I'm like meh, that shit is so far away and is just a bunch of people being dumb as usual.
No reason to pick "sides" or to condemn one label over the other in a war.
Both sides are cruel and inhuman for even fighting it.

 

[hornet]

Doublepost

 

[Infinite Bubble]

I like your tritype on House can't say I disagree at the moment.

I'm glad.

No I don't expect anyone to give up.
I've long since accepted the unbridgeable gap of these divides.
This is more like a study for me.

No one should expect it.

Your take on cognitive functions seem very misapplied in my view.
Everybody says he is bouncing ideas off of his collegues.
So what?
To me it seems more like a Te gathering of info from his team.
Cause although he know a lot he doesn't know everything.
So he sucks them dry of info.

And I say "so what?" to your view of his supposed use of Te. This is just an example of what I was saying in my previous post. Someone says "Oh, that behavior means this function," and the next says "No, it is actually evidential for this function."

Foreman uses Te. Te is collective logic. This is logic everyone agrees on and works around. That's why Foreman brings up sensible routes to take when trying to diagnose, because that's what the book says. It's the logic and rules everyone has learnt. House ignores him, as per, because he has Ti.

But when it comes to actually do something well that is very Te and Se based.
He wants results. And they deal with Te and Se object in other words facts and objects that can be sensed.

He doesn't want results per se - not 'Te results' anyway. He wants to figure out the truth, as if a patient is a puzzle to solve. He doesn't necessarily care if they die, or if they are healthy. A couple of episodes, the patient became healthy before he figured it out, and he forced them to stay so he could figure it out. If he was Te orientated, he'd probably just want to make sure they live, because that's his job.

His Ni knows that is the object is sick then there will be an underlying condition.
So all he is about is pinpointing how he can rearrange the objects to make the patients healthy again.

How is that anything to do with Ni specifically?

His Te/Fi is very apparent, cause the way he clashes with Wilsons Fe/Ti.
Wilson and House can't see eye to eye on certain things, especially morality.
To House his Fe strikes him as putting on a show, to pretend to like someone.
House points this out in many of the conversations with his different staff members.
Why are you reffering this too me? And they will have different Fe and Fi reasons for doing so.
I loved the episode where Wilson wouldn't treat the homeless girl with rabies and House took it since he found it facinating that Wilson wouldn't.
Wilson had put her squarly into the camp of the others.

Well, House is a misanthrope, what do you expect?

Your Ne can't consider my Se perspective as relevant as it is viewed as a joke.
Just as I view your Ne views as a joke.

I found it so amusing when my INFP ex had magical and totally misguided views on how basic things around us worked.
And how objects just disapeared for her and she would never find them or knock them over.
From a Se stance she was almost a bit "retarded" in that sense.

I don't view your 'Se perspective' as a joke, whatever that may be. Just that it's just one viewpoint vs another, and the very nature of viewpoints is that neither is right or wrong.

But her take on idealistic objects, like the Israel/Palestinian conflicts, oh she had views and it was so real to her.
To me I'm like meh, that shit is so far away and is just a bunch of people being dumb as usual.
No reason to pick "sides" or to condemn one label over the other in a war.
Both sides are cruel and inhuman for even fighting it.

That's ironic.