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Are Women More "Irrational* Than Men?
- Thread starter Zarathustra
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I personally enjoy that kind of arguing. It is fun and educational in multiple ways at the same time.
RaptorWizard
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I call him free who is led solely by reason. -Baruch Spinoza
I've posted that many times before, but it is such a good message. Unleash the full power of your mind to break your chains! Then you will transcend gender. The extreme way is always right!
I've posted that many times before, but it is such a good message. Unleash the full power of your mind to break your chains! Then you will transcend gender. The extreme way is always right!
S
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the core of irrationality is acting out of ignorance:
if you act within a social world without acknowledging and understanding the content of other sentient agents and dynamics between them, you are going to be missing critical information, thus acting irrationally towards anything that will affect them.
if you act with ignorance to your own emotions, thus acting on motivations that do not actually provide for the emotional needs that generate them, you are acting irrationally relatively to your true underlining motivations.
in that context, emotional intelligence and developed emotional functions are required parts of complete rational thinking.
it's worth noting that when a Ti'r throws the baby out with the bathwater, or when a Te'r ignores theoretical inconsistencies, thinkers are likewise acting irrational. Te is generally better suited to determine rational action, and Ti is generally better suited to determine the internal reasoning of systems, but neither are enough to make you into a rational reasonable human being.
that's being said, i have seen time and time again feelers pick through facts and reasoning based on what feels better, and at times actively enforcing ignorance upon themselves and holding onto it like a dog with a bone. IMO if you choose to do that, you are pretty much saying "fuck you rationality, i'm going home", you can't then go and claim to be rational while doing so - can't stomp on the cake and throw the pieces at everyone's faces like a monkey with feces and eat it too.
(and yes, i do think a lot of gender stereotypes stem from feeler/thinker distribution).
if you act within a social world without acknowledging and understanding the content of other sentient agents and dynamics between them, you are going to be missing critical information, thus acting irrationally towards anything that will affect them.
if you act with ignorance to your own emotions, thus acting on motivations that do not actually provide for the emotional needs that generate them, you are acting irrationally relatively to your true underlining motivations.
in that context, emotional intelligence and developed emotional functions are required parts of complete rational thinking.
it's worth noting that when a Ti'r throws the baby out with the bathwater, or when a Te'r ignores theoretical inconsistencies, thinkers are likewise acting irrational. Te is generally better suited to determine rational action, and Ti is generally better suited to determine the internal reasoning of systems, but neither are enough to make you into a rational reasonable human being.
that's being said, i have seen time and time again feelers pick through facts and reasoning based on what feels better, and at times actively enforcing ignorance upon themselves and holding onto it like a dog with a bone. IMO if you choose to do that, you are pretty much saying "fuck you rationality, i'm going home", you can't then go and claim to be rational while doing so - can't stomp on the cake and throw the pieces at everyone's faces like a monkey with feces and eat it too.
(and yes, i do think a lot of gender stereotypes stem from feeler/thinker distribution).
H
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*streaks naked across thread*
violet_crown
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I think of rationality as a kind of discipline more than an inborn trait, per se. It's a habit of consistency between thought and action. I think that if women are perceived as more irrational, it is because they are devalued in thought or action, making it seemingly not worth the trouble to acquire the skill of aligning the two.
It comes down to incentives. Traditionally, women were encouraged to maximize their interest in only certain areas of the private sphere, and largely dis-empowered elsewhere. The notion of the "irrational" women is basically emblematic of not only the limitation of her agency, but also a means by which to undercut the areas where she might apply herself. That covers emotional labor or nearly anything else that prioritizes the interests of the collective--whether it be her intimate relationship, her family, or community--above that of the individual.
On the flip side, the social consequences to a man for not exhibiting rationality as I've defined it were and are severe. A man incapable of acting in way consistent with his own goals is essentially a man without integrity. It reveals the double bind for women, though. In order to be respected for her rational capacity, she has to behave in a way that puts her outside the expectations of her sex.
So to answer your question, [MENTION=8413]Zarathustra[/MENTION], the average woman is most likely less rational than the average man, not because of anything inherent to her capacities, but because the society is more permissive of it. While fully acknowledging the political context of the thread, I'd venture to say a more interesting question to explore might be would the woman feel as entitled to act like a crazy bitch if she felt more personal agency? If she felt more agency, would it increase her sense of personal responsibility? And if she felt a greater sense of personal responsibility, would her actions not in turn be more rational?
ETA: Conversely, we could all just let our freak flag fly, and just have an exquisitely nice time of it.
It comes down to incentives. Traditionally, women were encouraged to maximize their interest in only certain areas of the private sphere, and largely dis-empowered elsewhere. The notion of the "irrational" women is basically emblematic of not only the limitation of her agency, but also a means by which to undercut the areas where she might apply herself. That covers emotional labor or nearly anything else that prioritizes the interests of the collective--whether it be her intimate relationship, her family, or community--above that of the individual.
On the flip side, the social consequences to a man for not exhibiting rationality as I've defined it were and are severe. A man incapable of acting in way consistent with his own goals is essentially a man without integrity. It reveals the double bind for women, though. In order to be respected for her rational capacity, she has to behave in a way that puts her outside the expectations of her sex.
So to answer your question, [MENTION=8413]Zarathustra[/MENTION], the average woman is most likely less rational than the average man, not because of anything inherent to her capacities, but because the society is more permissive of it. While fully acknowledging the political context of the thread, I'd venture to say a more interesting question to explore might be would the woman feel as entitled to act like a crazy bitch if she felt more personal agency? If she felt more agency, would it increase her sense of personal responsibility? And if she felt a greater sense of personal responsibility, would her actions not in turn be more rational?
ETA: Conversely, we could all just let our freak flag fly, and just have an exquisitely nice time of it.
Zarathustra
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unnamed
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this, but not just this. women are more driven by their emotions in general due to hormones and monthly changes in them, F type or not.
also this, INTJs are often masters at this and doing that is highly irrational.. one of the over 9000 reasons why i consider them more irrational than ENFPs for example, who are generally seen as very irrational people, but thats just the surface, like the "rationality" of the INTJ is.
I don't believe it and don't like it.Also,men could more driven by their emotions in general due to porn, F type or not.
Thalassa
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Yeah that's what I mean about men being irrational about female sexuality, in part. Some people who study personality theory don't understand that emotions and the Fi/Fe functions aren't the same thing, either.
Zarathustra
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Yeah, well, I hate it when bitches be actin crazy.
Amargith
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We can relate. Douchebags acting like pumped up testosterone machines arent much better.
Zarathustra
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^^ ok, that's not entirely true
We all know I love me some crazy bitches
We all know I love me some crazy bitches
Amargith
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^^ ok, that's not entirely true
We all know I love me some crazy bitches
Lol...hey you said it
Zarathustra
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Oh, god, I completely agree.
Nothing worse than some fist-pumping guidos, super fratty frat dudes, etc.
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I think it's by Se...I have no Se though...(maybe is the reason I don't like porn?)
Anyway,T is codes can be reprogram.
F is codes not can be reprogram.
T can be infinitely evolution,F can not.
Zarathustra
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Lol...hey you said it
Even just the way that she said it...
Dripping with craziness...
And like a moth to a flame...
Honestly, I can't tell you how many times I've heard this from girlfriends...
And, at first, I'm like, "That's fucking ridiculous."
But then I'm like, "But she's fucking owning it."
"Maybe there's some truth to it...
"Then I'm sucked into the vortex of feminine delight
Amargith
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Amargith
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This might be a better explanation for what is happening to [MENTION=8413]Zarathustra[/MENTION], actually. Thanks Lark
This might be a better explanation for what is happening to [MENTION=8413]Zarathustra[/MENTION], actually. Thanks Lark
Women and love are among the only real solutions to the existential dilemma presented by being alive.
