[NF] NFs and Anxiety/Depression

[SingSmileShine]

Fellow NFs, I feel like we creative, emotional people get the short end of the stick often in the anxiety/depression area. It sucks that such awesome, genuinely wonderful people should get that.

But, my question is: Do you notice a trend in NFs and depression/anxiety? Do you suffer from it? Are any particular types more susceptible? How do you best cope with it?

Partly, this is a rant about how I feel that, as an ENFP, a lot of other ENFPs feel very similarly to me. I know that there are people of every type with a disorder like that, but I have noticed during my stumblings across the Interweb that it seems to be a trend in NFs, and particularly ENFPs (since that's what I looked for). I would appreciate it if you could answer my questions, though.

Any and all thoughts on depression/anxiety welcome.

Thank you!

 

[King sns]

I actually made a thread about NFP's and anxiety a while back. I thought that the combination of feelings, subjectivity, and thinking of all the possibilities can make you super anxious. I have bad anxiety but counselor told me to stop thinking of everything that could possibly happen next and think of what is definite and don't get ahead of myself and it will help. One of my profs told me the same thing without me asking her and some people close to me have made comments that I'm jumping ahead of things too much and a lot of the things that I think about may not ever be. Because there is always the possibility that if you miss a step in life it could end in things like losing your family, accidentally killing someone, ending up starving and homeless, getting your teeth knocked out of your head, all the ways your house could catch on fire, etc. Then there is always the paranoia of what is going through other people's heads and concern over what people think of you. There's craploads of things that make me nervous or depressed though I have learned to laugh at myself about it. (There are the good possibilities too, of course, but those aren't the ones that make you anxious for the unknown.)

Most enfp's seem pretty convivial but perhaps a little nervous on the outside sometimes.

However, I've seen lots of types being anxious or depressed for various reasons so I'm not sure if it has a larger percentage in NF's than other folks. I have to say I can't picture an anxious enfj from what I can think of. They always seem super confident, streamlined and competent, and leadery to me.

 

[Burger King]

But, my question is: Do you notice a trend in NFs and depression/anxiety?

I used to think so, but I've seen other types mistype as NF, specifically INFP, often, when they're depressed.

Do you suffer from it?

From time to time. Not to the point of harming myself, but enough to cripple my day to day activity. Shortnsweet pretty much explained it and I was much like that as a youth. Other times, it comes from seemingly no where. It's like I feel hollow, people are moving on, I feel abandoned. I feel like there is nothing significant in my life, and that I'm not significant. Everything seems pointless. I feel as if my mind is trying to escape my body, kind of like derealization. Much of this is probably what they refer to as existential depression.

Are any particular types more susceptible?

Well, I'd imagine others deal with depression differently. There may be a specific coping tendency among specific types. They may seem normal. They may not speak of it, but underneath it all there is turmoil and misery. Some may put on a very good strong extroverted mask even.

How do you best cope with it?

I have a bad habit of isolating myself and trying to deal with it alone. I indulge in some of my favorite past times which includes drawing, listening to music and once in a while, writing. I'm having a bit of that feeling right now actually. That dark, hopeless, depressed feel. I just have to weather it.

 

[pinkgraffiti]

wow are you me? yes to both worrying about all the things that might happen in the future and to what other people are thinking/feeling of me...
did we get a bad deck of cards with our functions? either they are not very useful in the world or I'm just misunderstood by the majority. either way it sucks.
what is the solution?

I actually made a thread about NFP's and anxiety a while back. I thought that the combination of feelings, subjectivity, and thinking of all the possibilities can make you super anxious. I have bad anxiety but counselor told me to stop thinking of everything that could possibly happen next and think of what is definite and don't get ahead of myself and it will help. One of my profs told me the same thing without me asking her and some people close to me have made comments that I'm jumping ahead of things too much and a lot of the things that I think about may not ever be. Because there is always the possibility that if you miss a step in life it could end in things like losing your family, accidentally killing someone, ending up starving and homeless, getting your teeth knocked out of your head, all the ways your house could catch on fire, etc. Then there is always the paranoia of what is going through other people's heads and concern over what people think of you. There's craploads of things that make me nervous or depressed though I have learned to laugh at myself about it. (There are the good possibilities too, of course, but those aren't the ones that make you anxious for the unknown.)

Most enfp's seem pretty convivial but perhaps a little nervous on the outside sometimes.

However, I've seen lots of types being anxious or depressed for various reasons so I'm not sure if it has a larger percentage in NF's than other folks. I have to say I can't picture an anxious enfj from what I can think of. They always seem super confident, streamlined and competent, and leadery to me.

 

[King sns]

wow are you me? yes to both worrying about all the things that might happen in the future and to what other people are thinking/feeling of me...
did we get a bad deck of cards with our functions? either they are not very useful in the world or I'm just misunderstood by the majority. either way it sucks.
what is the solution?

Yes, exactly!! I can't just stop thinking the way I do though I've tried many times. About five years ago, my counselor just told me to take deep breaths and focus on what is in front of me, and forget about alternate possibilities all together. It had some success in stopping major anxiety attacks, but I've modified it to try to just catch myself when I go off onto a spiral and at least adding equally likely good possibilities. Since it's very difficult to be in a totally present meditative-Buddah like state all the time.

like, "wait, why is my boss looking at me like that? wait, now she's avoiding my gaze. frowning. OMG I'm the worst worker, what did I do, she doesn't want to approach me about something. Okay, recap of the last month. I'm like five minutes late every day!! Not only that, I start reading when I could be doing extra tasks. Someone told her about the reading!! Someone told her that I'm lazy and I probably missed a whole bunch of things and don't consider anything or anyone when I make my decisions! Not only that, I'm a horrible supervisor!! Too supportive of the aides, never firm enough. They are probably totally running amok out there causing trouble and it's totally going under my radar!! Holy crap, I put everyone in a bad mood". Well now I'm more likely to stop mid- crazy spiraling and at least say, "or she could be having a really bad day, maybe just ask her what's wrong, joke around, help her lighten up- it probably means nothing at all, I'm just crazy it's okay. If it's me she'll tell me, i'll try to fix it. I'm so weird. haha. I'm not the sun and my work is not the Earth or the other way around or something. Some poor kid somewhere in the world is not crying for food over a chain of events that I started by reading a book at work, I guess."

So I'm still over analyzing some situations but at least trying to steer the analysis towards a dead end or more positive outcome.

I'm always sure this trait has value in some situations where alternate explanations could be needed, but it's really hard to see the value in it when you are stuck in your own mind being subjective. Positive spiraling possibilities can be great, too. I think they are just less noticeable as they aren't traumatizing or paralyzing you or causing a big ruckus in your head.

 

[SingSmileShine]

Thank you so much to everyone who's answered. I really appreciate it and I'm glad that you all have ways to battle it!

 

[pinkgraffiti]

thank you all. this thread is relevant to my interests because I'm back suffering from anxiety after about 4 years "clean". I'm getting a lot of aggressiveness from my boss and i can't take it at all.

[MENTION=14764]SingSmileShine[/MENTION] years ago when i first started having anxiety issues what helped me was the phrase "what doesn't bend brake". it's from here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O25LNr_3YQ so instead of fighting an anxiety attack i'd just "ride the wave". it really helps because you stop being afraid of your anxiety attacks. and you know, anxiety feeds on fear. it is the anticipation of future suffering. so when you start accepting that you will survive an attack, then you stop being afraid of them and they naturally reduce.

nevertheless, i still need suggestions to be less anxious in general. so far the ones that have helped me have been:
1. meditating
2. crying
3. getting angry
4. talking about the problem with someone
5. listening to calm music (sigur ros is just amazing at this effect)
6. listening to rock
7. distracting yourself in an activity of interest
8. (not good) controlling it, so it becomes physical pain -> i get gastritis or cervical pain. does anyone also experience similar things? the more i try to control my anxiety the more i get physical pain, and the more i try to ease on the physical pain, the more the anxiety is back. (only in periods when I'm naturally anxious, of course)

 

[King sns]

thank you all. this thread is relevant to my interests because I'm back suffering from anxiety after about 4 years "clean". I'm getting a lot of aggressiveness from my boss and i can't take it at all.

[MENTION=14764]SingSmileShine[/MENTION] years ago when i first started having anxiety issues what helped me was the phrase "what doesn't bend brake". it's from here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O25LNr_3YQ so instead of fighting an anxiety attack i'd just "ride the wave". it really helps because you stop being afraid of your anxiety attacks. and you know, anxiety feeds on fear. it is the anticipation of future suffering. so when you start accepting that you will survive an attack, then you stop being afraid of them and they naturally reduce.

nevertheless, i still need suggestions to be less anxious in general. so far the ones that have helped me have been:
1. meditating
2. crying
3. getting angry
4. talking about the problem with someone
5. listening to calm music (sigur ros is just amazing at this effect)
6. listening to rock
7. distracting yourself in an activity of interest
8. (not good) controlling it, so it becomes physical pain -> i get gastritis or cervical pain. does anyone also experience similar things? the more i try to control my anxiety the more i get physical pain, and the more i try to ease on the physical pain, the more the anxiety is back. (only in periods when I'm naturally anxious, of course)

Ick! No fun.
Best non pharmacological interventions for me are exercise, diet corrections, plenty of sleep, and deep breathing. If not meds, I'll go for a short jog (if it's just an anxiety jog, it can clear in 10 minutes sometimes), and call a really understanding friend or my mom. (As mentioned above.) And yes!! I agree. It sounds really obvious but "staying calm" during panic attacks really helps. Just kind of letting it do what it's going to do while remembering it won't hurt you. If we're talking about that acute of a level of anxiety, (I've never tried this) but in one of my lectures they told us that people put a lemon in their mouth and it works. The shock and bitterness brings you directly back to the present moment. Goal is to stay focused on the lemon. I've never tried it before.

 

[pinkgraffiti]

ps. this helped me too. i only read like the first 5 pages, skimming, and it was enough anyways
http://www.2shared.com/document/WjTrIKBi/Panic_Away_Program.html

 

[CzeCze]

However, I've seen lots of types being anxious or depressed for various reasons so I'm not sure if it has a larger percentage in NF's than other folks. I have to say I can't picture an anxious enfj from what I can think of. They always seem super confident, streamlined and competent, and leadery to me.

I think when an ENFP is anxious and it's related to type it has a very specific vibe/course that it runs. First, I think especially in female ENFPs people may be totally unaware that the person feels any kind of anxiety. The outside picture is of a sociable, confident, even bubbly or exuberant person. But inside, the anxiety is debilitating and can cause sudden panic attacks. I think for whatever reason, anxiety is often an element of an ENFP's make-up. I think it's the runaway Ne and murky Si symbolism meshing with poignant emo feeling Fi so basically there's just A LOT of *mental* energy that is whirring inside coupled with a lot of emotions experienced daily that need to be sorted and understood. If that doesn't get an outlet all of it turns into generalized anxiety and then degrades

I think anxiety/depression is also common in INTPs but it takes on a totally different flavor due to our different types. Not blessed with the veneer of sociability and extroversion, it makes INTPs seem even more withdrawn and awkward and probably most people looking on the outside just think the INTP is "awkward" or a curmudgeon.

 

[Kyrielle]

But, my question is: Do you notice a trend in NFs and depression/anxiety?

Can't say for sure. Maybe NFs are just more expressive about it in comparison to other types, so it only looks like they are more depressed.

Do you suffer from it?

Depression, yes. I believe I inherited the tendencies from my father's side. His mother was very likely bipolar as is my father. However, due to a strange tendency in both of them to be mentally incapable of admitting to faults or accepting responsibility, this has never been officially diagnosed. But the signs are all there, bright and glaring like giant neon signs. While I'm not bipolar, I do have issues with depression and it's something I have to actively work against.

How do you best cope with it?

This biggest thing is I have trained myself to take each day one day at a time. This is very hard for me to generally do, as it's against my natural tendency to want to look forward and plan. But I can at least manage to keep one eye on the present and one eye on the future, and that's probably the best I'll ever do.

Another thing is I refuse the drink alcohol because of what it does to me. I'm not a cool drunk. Hell, I'm a really boring, clammed up drunk who feels like offing herself as soon as the effects wear off. Therefore, no alcohol for me. Not that I ever really cared much about it in the first place.

Then there's training my mind to drop thoughts on command. Sometimes it doesn't work, but I can usually tell myself to let something go and imagine both the sensation of putting down a weight and that of falling, and it seems to help me push the issue to the back of my head, forget about it, or not feel anything in particular about it. But I HAVE to balance this with doing something positive. Otherwise, I end up stuck feeling dead and empty.

I have to admit, though. Sometimes that misery hurts so good I kind of chew on it for a while before trying to get rid of the feeling. It's like when you had braces and how your gums hurt after they were adjusted. It hurt, but you couldn't help clenching your teeth to cause that little bit of itchy pain. Because it felt good, like scratching an itch feels good.

 

[garbage]

I've been to hell and back with respect to anxiety and depression, and I eventually wound up with a bipolar II ("bipolar lite") diagnosis. It's characterized by deep depressive episodes, but typically without much in the way of marked manic highs. It's difficult to separate the physiological from the psychological, but in the process of exploring the whole picture, I've largely tackled the latter--meaning that my anxiety virtually only arises now as an indirect function of body chemistry. Still, when my chemical balance has been off (e.g. ineffective medication regimen), it feels like I've got a void to fill--and that's when I feel like grasping at straws, becoming anxious and turning to old coping mechanisms such as competition and codependent habits. But when the balance is right, I'm just flat out not anxious anymore. About anything.

So, I feel your pain. I also know that it's possible to conquer the worst of anxiety.


Therapy really, really helps if it's an option. And Dale Carnegie's book, though outdated in parts, is one of the best resources out there.

The best way I've found to mentally tackle anxiety is by asking myself to think about my 'problems' one at a time and trace out what the worst possible outcome is (but exercising beforehand helps me clear my head so that I can do it). Often, the worst possible outcome isn't so bad; in addition, it's also usually extremely improbable. That process alone helps put things into perspective, and making it a mental habit is an absolute game-changer.

"It's not so bad" quickly turns into "it's actually pretty great!"


Oh, and avoiding situations that would increase stress for no good reason (meaningless promotions for the sake of stroking the ego, overcommitting, living beyond one's means, etc.) is also a good way to prevent anxiety.

 

[JoSunshine]

I'm usually not anxious or depressed, but...

I went through two years (enough to last a lifetime if you ask me), struggling with both. I found that raising my EQ (emotional intelligence) through meditation worked really well. It took some time to get the hang of it, but once I got it, I made great progress rather quickly.

 

[Stanton Moore]

Yeah, I have it. Depression. Been pretty bad off and on for over a year now.

I find that exercise works pretty well, if not consistantly.
Fish oil = good
sleep = good (when I can actually sleep)

Alcohol = bad
Pot = bad
fried food = bad. Why? because it causes inflammation,and inflammation exacerbates depression. actually some research has been done on this, and they cant' determine if inflammation causes depression or depression causes inflammation.

 

[xenaprincess]

hugs all around to everyone.
Yes, I do feel badly now and again. It comes in spurts. I went thru a terrible time in my mid/late 20s. Seriously not sure how I survived it.

The trouble is, if you're depressed, your outlook is affected. How you deal with simple tasks is affected. I'd feel like a heavy weight was on my head, and have trouble making simple decisions.

Therapy helps put anxious/bad thoughts in perspective. So does talking about it with people. I don't mean long talks, but just a mention about feeling blue. After making a simple connection with someone else, I feel better. Exercise, when I can muster it up. I sometimes take medication. But mostly...I weather it.

I go thru the motions of normality, suspend judgement about the world and my life. And then I sleep, and the next day I feel better.

 

[WheresRocket]

Yep, I have it. Tendencies toward anxiety and depression, I mean. As does my ENFJ spouse. (We're lots of fun at parties.)

At various times, depending on the specific circumstances of bouts of anxiety and depression, and what I felt I needed, I have coped with antidepressants, talk therapy, running, and throwing myself into hobbies.

In my most recent cycle of coping with both depression and anxiety, they have been a response to specific and very stressful life events, and I have been working on learning the difference between my emotions and my responses to emotions.

I have always tended to be blown around by my emotions, but am often not good at specifically naming what I am feeling - I just know I feel "bad." I realized recently that a lot of the time I am not noticing how I feel until I have already reacted to the emotion - so by the time I check myself, all I know is that I'm incredibly anxious.

I am learning to interrogate that understanding, to say, "Okay, I'm nauseous and my heart is pounding; I must be anxious. Wonder what caused that response?" To my surprise, I've usually been able to trace it back to something specific that upset me, and from there it's easy to identify the emotion that was provoked - i.e., "I got a rude phone call at work and felt threatened; it made me scared."

It's much easier to deal with "Okay, I felt scared; that was a reasonable response and I will handle it" than "I'm so anxious and I don't know what to do; am I going crazy?" This strategy has helped me a lot.

If we're talking about that acute of a level of anxiety, (I've never tried this) but in one of my lectures they told us that people put a lemon in their mouth and it works. The shock and bitterness brings you directly back to the present moment. Goal is to stay focused on the lemon. I've never tried it before.

I love this idea!

 

[Abstract Thinker]

Yes, here too. Male INFP, which presents its own particular challenges. How do I deal with it? Mostly I just suffer. And I take Prozac, Klonopin, wine and weed. Anything to escape the inevitable pain of so much feeling and intuition.

 

[IllusoryReverie]

I'm not sure if NFs necessarily suffer more from depression/anxiety more than any of the other types, but I feel that they would be more comfortable with addressing their depression/anxiety than many of the other types would be. I deal with depression myself. It's something that runs in my family. I'm okay with talking about it but I like to take the time to feel out whether a person would be understanding about it before I get into it. There's so much prejudice directed toward mood disorders.

 

[kyuuei]

My fight with depression was stemmed from a very particular situation, and was healed when that situation also healed, so I don't think I will include that here.

Overall, I do not suffer from depression at all as far as I can tell.. but I do get anxious easily. I think it sort of comes with the territory. ENFPs tend to care a lot, and with care comes worry and anxiety. It comes natural to me to be anxious because it comes naturally to me to care about..well..way too much, and so if left unchecked that will leak into other facets of my life--like over-thinking situations or the actions and words of others.

 

[Qoi]

For me it's the constant battle of accepting that one day I'm going to end and that to truly experience and enjoy life I need to be a part of it. Sometimes it's just really hard to work up the motivation, especially when people just would rather not talk about "depressing" things. It's sad, but it's a part of life and discussing it, at least for me, is the only way to feel at ease with it. Not to mention the thought of getting close to someone else and losing them again. It's hard letting people in sometimes, although I do get around as far as talking to others. I have a lot of acquaintances, but few I've ever talked to on a super personal level. Most people don't want to. It's that duality which causes anxiety. What we want and what we expect. The anticipation can lead to optimism, but there's always that core fear and some people are just prone to letting it take over.