[Type 9] Any 9 experts around here?

[VagrantFarce]

What do you have against being a five? I thought I had convinced you weeks ago.

 

[Silveresque]

What do you have against being a five? I thought I had convinced you weeks ago.

I was convinced for a little while, but I keep finding more things that don't quite fit. I have nothing against fives, but I don't really want to be one because if I am, then I somehow missed out on all the good aspects of that type (like being intellectual and knowledgeable), which means all I get out of it is being a recluse. Unfortunately, I don't make a very good five.

 

[Moiety]

To be honest, I would rather be a 9 than a 5. I just want to know that I'm a 9 before I go changing my type.



But I thought 9's fixation of indolence comes from the loss of holy love? In other words, if I'm an average 9, would I really be able to relate to holy love if I've supposedly lost it? When I read the description, it sounds good, but I'm not sure how much I can really relate to it, since I don't normally think about love much. Then again, I don't even understand 5's holy idea. When I read it it doesn't make sense to me, but maybe that particular description is just confusing.

Anyways, good idea. Time to start thinking outside the box and figure out what my holy idea is.

Yes, one mustn't forget what brought us to places like these in the first place. Our commitment should be with finding who the fuck we are and who the fuck we are not....not with studying MBTI our Enneagram or any other model. The models are here to helps study ourselves.

And to try to answer your question....no, relating to holy love is not something spontaneous. I've been in denial of my laziness for a long time so everything else goes with it in a way. Of course laziness is not property of 9s alone. I guess the answer to your question, like any real answer is not really linear.

Having a journal of some kind or a scribbling down every now and then asking about what you want for yourself and others...and asking who you are....and what other people are........it's all the same thing.

What you are really trying to find with all this crap...is exactly which kind of glasses your used to using to look at reality. You can only connect the dots in retrospective though. My advice to anyone is to not to get too high on foruming and studying psychology...and starting to practice psychology on themselves every day. If you are a 9, you'll probably notice a pattern I noticed. You read about crap you like ALL DAY LONG. And then you read some more. You love masturbating while looking at the MBTI and Enneagram porno mag. But you don't allow yourself to go out there and actually have sex with yourself. A 9 will have a tendency to not ENGAGE . It's more COMFORTABLE to read about this crap, or any other of your interests than actually acting upon your ideas and hypothesis and do something.

Self-discovery involves action. The 9 is the most inclined to not want to accept this. You could even frame it in another way....the 9 doesn't want to see that happiness, peace, whatever else you want for yourself, involves EFFORT!

Effort is a taboo word. At least in my case. Maybe my advice is not very valuable, but this has been my experience. I'm an ENFP too. So I live too much in my head.

If you are an INFP and you are a 9 you are probably not much different.

 

[brainheart]

^ shit, that really makes it sound like I'm a nine.
Thanks for the insight [MENTION=4731]Moiety[/MENTION].

 

[redcheerio]

Yeah, awesome post, [MENTION=4731]Moiety[/MENTION]. Lulz.

Another thing to keep in mind is that some descriptions might not be true in every context, only some. For example, I don't normally think of myself as lazy because I often work my ass off, but when I'm not pushing myself, I sure can slip into laziness easily. I have to push myself to not be lazy, unless I'm energized by something.

 

[Moiety]

^Definitely. I never liked to see myself as lazy. And I had a slew of examples in life, than whenever I actually applied myself a little bit...I'd work like nobody's business without breaking a sweat. That's what made me further reject the lazy label.

But now I see, it's just a word. It's pointing to a certain pattern. And that one is undeniable. My energy levels are not consistent. So now I'm taking it upon myself to integrating consistent energy into my life. As with a lot of other things, as a Ne dominant, being hollistic in my implementation of small changes in life has helped tremendously.

 

[wolfy]

I like the sound of it too. But what the hell does it mean?

So you don't get dulled by convention maybe? I can see that.

So you don't let others influence your own individuality. You are you in all your glorious rawness.

 

[VagrantFarce]

I was convinced for a little while, but I keep finding more things that don't quite fit. I have nothing against fives, but I don't really want to be one because if I am, then I somehow missed out on all the good aspects of that type (like being intellectual and knowledgeable), which means all I get out of it is being a recluse. Unfortunately, I don't make a very good five.

That's no excuse, you're trying to find yourself here. Besides, knowledge isn't an accurate measure of intelligence or perception.

Listen, the types are remarkably simple - and they aren't going to cover every little habit you've accumulated in your life, because it's not about that. So you need to stop constantly looking for silly little details that don't matter.

In fact, this is how simple it is: Which do you feel more comfortable inhabiting?

1. Your body
2. Your mind

I'll even give you a hint - if you start sitting there in front of the computer over-thinking the question, the answer isn't number 1!!!

 

[Glycerine]

^ haha over thinking is my biggest downfall. However couldn't the questioning be due to the 9s undefined sense of self. I wonder if revliszero regularly overanalyzes other parts of her life? The thing that got me thinking I was a head type over a 9 was how much I spent thinking about things, preparing for things, basically my over active mind. [MENTION=14216]RevlisZero[/MENTION], do people comment on how you think too much? Besides the enneagram/MBTI, are you regularly analyzing a topic? I mean like non-stop analyzing (doesn't have to be an academic subject by any means... my topics are mostly analyzing myself and people in general). The only time my brain stops analysing is when I am asleep.

 

[Silveresque]

That's no excuse, you're trying to find yourself here. Besides, knowledge isn't an accurate measure of intelligence or perception.

Listen, the types are remarkably simple - and they aren't going to cover every little habit you've accumulated in your life, because it's not about that. So you need to stop constantly looking for silly little details that don't matter.

In fact, this is how simple it is: Which do you feel more comfortable inhabiting?

1. Your body
2. Your mind

I'll even give you a hint - if you start sitting there in front of the computer over-thinking the question, the answer isn't number 1!!!

I chose head before because I'm always daydreaming and I'm clumsy and not athletic, but can't 9's daydream and be clumsy? Are all 9's athletic? My mom (a 9) certainly isn't. And didn't [MENTION=4731]Moiety[/MENTION] say in his "A word for fellow 9's" thread that 9's can be clumsy? What does it even mean to be comfortable in one's body? I've never been able to figure out my type based on triad anyways, since all three usually come out tied. And who says 9's are incapable of over-thinking things? I don't know. I don't want to be difficult, but I don't think I can make a decision based solely on whether I feel more comfortable in my body or my head, especially since I don't even know what that really means.

^ haha over thinking is my biggest downfall. However couldn't the questioning be due to the 9s undefined sense of self. I wonder if revliszero regularly overanalyzes other parts of her life? The thing that got me thinking I was a head type over a 9 was how much I spent thinking about things, preparing for things, basically my over active mind. [MENTION=14216]RevlisZero[/MENTION], do people comment on how you think too much? Besides the enneagram/MBTI, are you regularly analyzing a topic? I mean like non-stop analyzing (doesn't have to be an academic subject by any means... my topics are mostly analyzing myself and people in general). The only time my brain stops analysing is when I am asleep.

An undefined sense of self is possible. I don't know myself nearly as well as I used to think. And no, I don't regularly overanalyze other parts of my life. At least I don't think I do. I generally only overanalyze when a) there's a problem that needs to be solved, b) it's very important to me, and c) I'm not too tired, lazy, or distracted. I don't delve too far into the details on just anything. The only thing I'm overanalyzing right now is my type/myself. I might occasionally overanalyze a homework problem if I can get really into it and stay focused, but only if I'm willing to put that much effort into it. I spend most of my time thinking about my type and myself (and not really making much progress), thinking about something random (e.g. "Hey, that tree looks funny!", or "I wonder what gives books that old book smell? Oh wait, that's chemistry. Never mind, I don't really want to know!"), listening to music in my head (very often), thinking about what's going on in my life, or just spacing out. I suppose there's not really a whole lot of analyzing in most of that.

 

[Moiety]

9s can certainly over think things. My second highest score outside the gut triad is 6. When I'm disintegrating (which is most of the time lol) I'm very stuck in my head.

I think this is because I'm an ENFP. ISFP 9s are probably more in tune with their body and/or less with their head....which probably makes them happier 9s. Ne and Fi and 9 make my head explode with always wanting to do the right thing specially when it comes to values. The thing is my body usually already knows the best answer. So that's why I think 9s need to pay more attention to their body. I've noticed recently that I even start wanting to eat different things after stopping old habits like overeating and smoking. I sometimes even WANT to exercise.

I like to see the triads as 3 types of intelligence. Head, heart and gut. The gut/body has an intelligence of it's own. If a 9 gets in tune with that intelligence life is a lot easier....a lot more energy and motivation and a lot more action.

 

[Glycerine]

9s can sure overthink and overanalyse but typically not to the extent of head types who do it mostly out of some sort of fear (mainly 5 and 6). 9s would probably see 5s and 6s as thinking too much generally speaking.

 

[VagrantFarce]

I chose head before because I'm always daydreaming and I'm clumsy and not athletic, but can't 9's daydream and be clumsy? Are all 9's athletic? My mom (a 9) certainly isn't. And didn't [MENTION=4731]Moiety[/MENTION] say in his "A word for fellow 9's" thread that 9's can be clumsy? What does it even mean to be comfortable in one's body? I've never been able to figure out my type based on triad anyways, since all three usually come out tied. And who says 9's are incapable of over-thinking things? I don't know. I don't want to be difficult, but I don't think I can make a decision based solely on whether I feel more comfortable in my body or my head, especially since I don't even know what that really means.

I didn't say anyone was incapable of anything. But here's the deal:

Pathological Nines don't become locked in their heads like Fives, they become locked in their bodies - they become locked in a state of physical inertia and easy-going malleability. They become so comfortable and down-to-earth that they forget to show off and make something of themselves. Serenity is a fundamentally physical state - you're adopting an easy-going, malleable, physical presence that is inviting and calm and totally not getting in your way.

Pathological Fives get so locked in a state of "preparation" that they practically forget they exist - everything has to be analysed and figured out before-hand, to the point where they forget to simply get up and do something. Detachment emerges from the mind - it's a need to separate from what's going on around you, and internalise what you're seeing, instead of participating.

There's a very real distinction between body and mind that these pathological states help to illustrate. It's a case of figuring out which side of the spectrum you lean toward when you're not in your best state.

I'm still utterly convinced you're a Five, by the way. That PM you sent to me was way too convincing.

I think this is because I'm an ENFP. ISFP 9s are probably more in tune with their body and/or less with their head....which probably makes them happier 9s. Ne and Fi and 9 make my head explode with always wanting to do the right thing specially when it comes to values. The thing is my body usually already knows the best answer. So that's why I think 9s need to pay more attention to their body. I've noticed recently that I even start wanting to eat different things after stopping old habits like overeating and smoking. I sometimes even WANT to exercise.

I'm going to give this advice as often as I can - there's nothing that suggest the enneagram and MBTI can co-exist like this. It's like mixing the imperial and metric systems, at best you'll only end up muddying the waters and getting an obfuscated understanding of both systems.

 

[Moiety]

Yes. But I can attest that being Ne-dominant (and Ne is by definition the opposite of the very grounded Se) 9 probably much more spaced out version than most ISFP 9s. The same can probably said about INFPs.

ISFP are artists or like sports and have a lot more body-awareness usually, due to Se.

At least now I can stop being so hard on myself for being such a bundle of contradictions. It also makes sense that I've always had unusually high Fi for an ENFP. And that my w8 is so strong and as such Te stress is so common in me, in a considerably aggressive way.But now I've developed a method, which is to write my thoughts on journal. Frees up my mind considerably.

 

[Moiety]

I'm going to give this advice as often as I can - there's nothing that suggest the enneagram and MBTI can co-exist like this. It's like mixing the imperial and metric systems, at best you'll only end up muddying the waters and getting an obfuscated understanding of both systems.

Nothing but personal experience and the fact that any human can take both tests. Two models don't conflict with each other...because they are not the territory, they are just maps. One might be mapping the rivers, and other the roads.

Watch out for that word "intelligence", it's not meant to imply that it all comes out of your head.

It is my belief intelligence (in the broadest sense possible, "the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills ") is not a property of brains alone, no.

 

[Silveresque]

9s can sure overthink and overanalyse but typically not to the extent of head types who do it mostly out of some sort of fear (mainly 5 and 6). 9s would probably see 5s and 6s as thinking too much generally speaking.

My overthinking is certainly not out of fear. When there's something that makes me anxious, I tend to avoid thinking about it. I wouldn't say 5's and 6's think too much, but I would say they worry too much. Maybe they would be better off if they didn't spend so much time thinking about the things that make them worry.

 

[Glycerine]

My overthinking is certainly not out of fear. When there's something that makes me anxious, I tend to avoid thinking about it. I wouldn't say 5's and 6's think too much, but I would say they worry too much. Maybe they would be better off if they didn't spend so much time thinking about the things that make them worry.

BINGO, 9 sounds like the best fit. BTW, 9s tend to be the most out of touch with their gut.

 

[VagrantFarce]

Nothing but personal experience and the fact that any human can take both tests. Two models don't conflict with each other...because they are not the territory, they are just maps. One might be mapping the rivers, and other the roads.

I think the problem is just people trying to differentiate between a billion different combination of habits. It's such a waste of time, and you really do end up obfuscating and confusing a lot of things, as well as losing focus on what actually matters.

 

[Glycerine]

Yes. But I can attest that being Ne-dominant (and Ne is by definition the opposite of the very grounded Se) 9 probably much more spaced out version than most ISFP 9s. The same can probably said about INFPs.

ISFP are artists or like sports and have a lot more body-awareness usually, due to Se.

At least now I can stop being so hard on myself for being such a bundle of contradictions. It also makes sense that I've always had unusually high Fi for an ENFP. And that my w8 is so strong and as such Te stress is so common in me, in a considerably aggressive way.But now I've developed a method, which is to write my thoughts on journal. Frees up my mind considerably.

I am Fe dom 5w6 so I know about the contradictions. hah!

 

[Moiety]

[MENTION=5632]VagrantFarce[/MENTION] : Well that depends on each person. It took me a while but I can start to take something out of these models. I definitely see the 9 patterns in myself. If you see MBTI as your cognitive functions and enneagram as motivations the reason behind them, there is nothing conflicting at all. The key is one focus, like you said. What matters is different for different people.

Using the models is not the something as taking them at face value, but about comparing them to your life situation and your past mistakes and successes. Studying the models without drawing conclusions and MAKING CHANGES in one life, to test it out.....well, yeah, that is kind of pointless.