[Type 9] Any 9 experts around here?

[Silveresque]

I'm still utterly convinced you're a Five, by the way. That PM you sent to me was way too convincing.

You decided I was a 5 because I prefer my own mind and my own little world over the outside world, I'm never fully there and fully engaged when with others, I dislike obligations and expectations, and I quickly get tired of socializing and need to get away so I can breathe again. These things certainly fit with 5, but I don't see why they can't fit with 9 as well. 9's are described as "disengaged" and "not fully present", and they tend to drift off or space out. They also tend to hide their anger and frustration when people step over their boundaries by making them do things they do not want to do.

What if I told you the biggest reason I'm a recluse is probably because of my tendency to be lazy and resist change? I feel more comfortable in my boring and simple routines, so I don't get out much. It's not really out of fear of being overwhelmed by the world. What fear? I don't really feel any fear. I'm not collecting knowledge in order to prepare for anything. What would I need to prepare for? I'm here right now, in front of my computer, because that's what I always do everyday. I'm content to just sit here and waste my time in comforting routines such as this, rather than go out places and try anything new. And it's not for the same reasons a 5 would have, because it's based on laziness, resisting change, and sticking to what's comfortable, rather than on fear of being overwhelmed by the world or being incompetent or anything like that. I may fear being incompetent on some level, but that's not what keeps me here in this chair. Not enjoying socialization is probably more of an excuse that I use to justify my avoidance. If I tried harder to actually be engaged and not let my mind drift off and think about things I would rather be doing, I would probably be able to enjoy it.

 

[Vizzy]

From what I've observed, this seems to be one of the surest you've been with regards to your own typing.
Compared to me, you seem much more supportive and engaged with other people here, and more willing to concern yourself with their predicaments and confusions (e.g. with Viridian). (Or maybe you're just nice!)
Do you tend to avoid problems (e.g. being social or committing to a relationship) because you can't be bothered/are lazy (but have no real doubt that you CAN) or because you don't believe you're up to it/can't cope?

Let's use the topic of intimate relationships, for example. I avoid it in real life because I believe that: 1) I'm not prepared for what's expected of me, 2) I'm not good enough to compete in the world of relationships, 3) I can't sacrifice my comfortable detachment yet.
Of course, everyone goes through times where they want to resist change and avoid stepping out of their comfort zone.
Anyway, as a result, I go online, search for information about relationships, e.g. why people do what they do, what's behind people's actions...partly out of mere interest as well. I never thought about it this way, but it's probably what they call a 5's desire to prepare...except I'm not sure if I'm eventually going to go out and practice what I've learnt anyway. Maybe it's just a desire to know how the heck people and this world works!

Also, this is probably my 4 wing speaking, but do you look forward to spending time alone to overanalyze things that puzzle you...in an almost morbid way? When in bed, I make time before I nod off to go through such monologues. They don't really get me anywhere, but just the experience of going through my thoughts (even if they're the same ones again and again!) is very satisfying and sometimes the part exciting part of my day...which is pretty sad.

Of course, I'm only one person who thinks I'm a 5...but do you relate to the above?

Anyway, I'll continue keeping tabs on your journey.

 

[Asterion]

Do you practice anything? I know I'm a 5, because I pick up my guitar and feel inspired to master it, then I pull out my keyboard and try to master that too... then I come on here and try to learn the enneagram inside out, I go on my xbox and try to learn and defeat as many games as I can (I seriously have more than 20 I'm working away on completing), I go to uni and I'm trying to master chemistry and astrophysics, and on the bus, I'm trying to read as much as possible and listen to so many albums, I go for a run and feel like trying to become as fit as humanly possible, I even practice Tae Kwon Do - I'm guessing this means I'm doing it wrong, it sounds very 7 and scattered for a 5, so I'm cutting trying to cut unimportant stuff out... which might include the enneagram, I don't know (I feel that they are all important, lol).

So, is your reclusive nature full of routine in the hope to attain mastery, or is it simply stagnant?

 

[Silveresque]

From what I've observed, this seems to be one of the surest you've been with regards to your own typing.
Compared to me, you seem much more supportive and engaged with other people here, and more willing to concern yourself with their predicaments and confusions (e.g. with Viridian). (Or maybe you're just nice!)
Do you tend to avoid problems (e.g. being social or committing to a relationship) because you can't be bothered/are lazy (but have no real doubt that you CAN) or because you don't believe you're up to it/can't cope?

Let's use the topic of intimate relationships, for example. I avoid it in real life because I believe that: 1) I'm not prepared for what's expected of me, 2) I'm not good enough to compete in the world of relationships, 3) I can't sacrifice my comfortable detachment yet.
Of course, everyone goes through times where they want to resist change and avoid stepping out of their comfort zone.
Anyway, as a result, I go online, search for information about relationships, e.g. why people do what they do, what's behind people's actions...partly out of mere interest as well. I never thought about it this way, but it's probably what they call a 5's desire to prepare...except I'm not sure if I'm eventually going to go out and practice what I've learnt anyway. Maybe it's just a desire to know how the heck people and this world works!

Also, this is probably my 4 wing speaking, but do you look forward to spending time alone to overanalyze things that puzzle you...in an almost morbid way? When in bed, I make time before I nod off to go through such monologues. They don't really get me anywhere, but just the experience of going through my thoughts (even if they're the same ones again and again!) is very satisfying and sometimes the part exciting part of my day...which is pretty sad.

Of course, I'm only one person who thinks I'm a 5...but do you relate to the above?

Anyway, I'll continue keeping tabs on your journey.

I've never actually been in a relationship, but I think I might do the same thing you do a little bit, though probably not to the same extent. Instead of thoroughly researching what to do in different situations of a relationship, I would probably just ask a friend what's normal in that kind of situation, if and when it comes up. The only reasons I might avoid starting a relationship would be a) I don't know if that person's right for me, and I would hate to have to reject him, or b) I don't think he's interested in me. As for the w4 part, I don't know. I guess I look forward to analyzing feelings sometimes. I can't say I usually have much to analyze.

Actually, this kind of reminds me of something my 5w4 friend in real life asked me. She asked me if I ever do "people watching", where you sit and watch people to learn about how to interact with people, what kind of clothes are popular, and social norms in general. I had never really thought of doing such a thing. I'm pretty much oblivious to what goes on around me most of the time.

Do you practice anything? I know I'm a 5, because I pick up my guitar and feel inspired to master it, then I pull out my keyboard and try to master that too... then I come on here and try to learn the enneagram inside out, I go on my xbox and try to learn and defeat as many games as I can (I seriously have more than 20 I'm working away on completing), I go to uni and I'm trying to master chemistry and astrophysics, and on the bus, I'm trying to read as much as possible and listen to so many albums, I go for a run and feel like trying to become as fit as humanly possible, I even practice Tae Kwon Do - I'm guessing this means I'm doing it wrong, it sounds very 7 and scattered for a 5, so I'm cutting trying to cut unimportant stuff out... which might include the enneagram, I don't know (I feel that they are all important, lol).

So, is your reclusive nature full of routine in the hope to attain mastery, or is it simply stagnant?

It's stagnant. I really don't have the motivation to attempt to master anything, so I pretty much spend my isolation doing nothing useful.

 

[brainheart]

So you don't let others influence your own individuality. You are you in all your glorious rawness.

Got it. Makes sense. Thanks.

 

[Silveresque]

What about my wing?

I wonder if I'm really not a w1, since I'm not really a perfectionist and would never get judgmental or critical of others. But 9w8's are supposed to be more charismatic and strong-willed, which I'm not...When I take enneagram tests I usually score lowest on 8, followed by 1, but sometimes it's the other way around.

 

[redcheerio]

What about my wing?

I wonder if I'm really not a w1, since I'm not really a perfectionist and would never get judgmental or critical of others. But 9w8's are supposed to be more charismatic and strong-willed, which I'm not...When I take enneagram tests I usually score lowest on 8, followed by 1, but sometimes it's the other way around.

I previously never related to either of the wings, until I read these:

http://mindheart.org/junction/oldcj/ep/wings.html


My INTJ husband, normally highly skeptical of personality tests, was impressed at how well the 9w8 described me, both at my best and at my worst:

http://mindheart.org/junction/oldcj/ep/types/9/98.html

The only thing this description is missing about me is my ENTP 7ish tendencies, 7 being the one I score second highest in, also with tritype 9-7-2.

I've also realized that I can exhibit both healthy and unhealthy traits at the same time. I can act like a healthy 9w8 around others, but then retreat back into my hermit phase at home. (I'm actually emerging from a hermit phase right now, due to some situational intense anger and stress a few months ago.)

 

[Moiety]

Lol yeah I was amazed at how accurate that description was for me too RedCheerio. I'm curious, what your job?

I feel for other Ne-dominant 9s. I feel I'm good at everything but I really need to drag myself to act. I don't want to achieve anything. And funnily enough, what little I do dream about every now and then...is usually BIG BIG BIG stuff.

As an ENFP, when I'm in hermit mode, I feel like I'm a sponge....feeding on all kinds of topics....but I never feel like acting on any of that knowledge most of the time...unless it's helping other people and acting as their counselor....

 

[redcheerio]

You too, huh? Yeah, I didn't think I had a wing until I read that, holy crap. Glad to have shared it with you!

I'm like that too, I learn quickly and am good at a lot of things, but need a lot of pressure to get the mundane shit done. I, too, have a number of huge dreams, but the problem is that implementation of those dreams takes a huge team of people working tirelessly on a lot of mundane things, including myself.

Now that you mention being a sponge, I'm thinking there are even healthy and unhealthy phases to the hermit phase. In my recent hermit phase, there were periods of sponging up info, and periods of not getting anything done at all, and being depressed and mad at myself for being so unproductive. Now I'm finally moving into another super-productive mode while also becoming a sponge again, yay!

I'm an engineer, currently sponging up info about management consulting and thinking about giving it a try. I haven't sent resumes to any management consulting firms yet, but plan to do so this week. I'd like to read up a bit first. I feel like I could be effective on a broader level with some management consulting experience and training, and would be able to go back into engineering afterwards if I wanted to. It may also give me a chance to get involved in helping some nonprofits, which could give me a sense of contributing something worthwhile to society. Plus mgmt consulting seems like it involves a lot of intellectual challenge in ways I love to be challenged. I get excited every time I think about it.

How about you? What kind of work do you do?

 

[Moiety]

I'm currently unemployed. The last thing I did was a movie project. I wonder if you feel like I do...that whatever it is I need to do with my life...it's gonna have to be in a leadership position?

I think a lot of 9 descriptions fail to understand some of us are actually extroverts. As accommodating as we can be, I think we all have to be accommodating on our own terms. I think real leaders aren't bossy characters and lead by example. I think an integrated 9 could be the epitome of true leadership giving people a sense they did it themselves (which they did in part of course ).

 

[redcheerio]

I'm currently unemployed. The last thing I did was a movie project. I wonder if you feel like I do...that whatever it is I need to do with my life...it's gonna have to be in a leadership position?

Definitely. This is what I'm thinking, too.

I think a lot of 9 descriptions fail to understand some of us are actually extroverts. As accommodating as we can be, I think we all have to be accommodating on our own terms. I think real leaders aren't bossy characters and lead by example. I think an integrated 9 could be the epitome of true leadership giving people a sense they did it themselves (which they did in part of course ).

Ding ding ding!!!! YES!

Someone gets it!

I hate that so many people in the American engineering work culture have so much difficulty with this concept....

 

[Silveresque]

I previously never related to either of the wings, until I read these:

http://mindheart.org/junction/oldcj/ep/wings.html

I just read that, actually. That's what made me wonder if I might be 9w8.

I'm not sure I relate to the "rough around the edges" part of the 9w8 description, and the physical appearance part doesn't fit. But everything else sounds good. I relate to 9w1's "cloudlike softness", but I'm not superstitious and don't really relate to the "refinement" and "poise". And I don't really relate to 9w1's "deep sevenish joy in the accomplishment of personal goals" (especially since I don't set goals). I think overall, the 9w8 description on that site fits me better, but I have a hard time seeing myself as that, because 8 seems so alien to me.

 

[redcheerio]

I just read that, actually. That's what made me wonder if I might be 9w8.

I'm not sure I relate to the "rough around the edges" part of the 9w8 description, and the physical appearance part doesn't fit. But everything else sounds good. I relate to 9w1's "cloudlike softness", but I'm not superstitious and don't really relate to the "refinement" and "poise". And I don't really relate to 9w1's "deep sevenish joy in the accomplishment of personal goals" (especially since I don't set goals). I think overall, the 9w8 description on that site fits me better, but I have a hard time seeing myself as that, because 8 seems so alien to me.

Those are the same parts I wasn't sure about for myself, also. And I related to some of the 9w1 description as well, but I found it interesting that despite a few bits that don't describe me (like the 2 sections at the end - physical and calling), every other part of that 9w8 description had me nailed on so many levels. The parts that didn't sound quite right are probably partly because I test second highest in E7.

Just because it doesn't describe you 100%, doesn't mean it isn't your type. I think whichever one describes you best in both your healthy and your unhealthy stages, is likely the one that fits best. But of course we're all still individuals, so there are gonna be things that are unique about you that the descriptions will miss, because beyond your type, you're YOU.

 

[MacGuffin]

I previously never related to either of the wings, until I read these:

http://mindheart.org/junction/oldcj/ep/wings.html


My INTJ husband, normally highly skeptical of personality tests, was impressed at how well the 9w8 described me, both at my best and at my worst:

http://mindheart.org/junction/oldcj/ep/types/9/98.html

The only thing this description is missing about me is my ENTP 7ish tendencies, 7 being the one I score second highest in, also with tritype 9-7-2.

I've also realized that I can exhibit both healthy and unhealthy traits at the same time. I can act like a healthy 9w8 around others, but then retreat back into my hermit phase at home. (I'm actually emerging from a hermit phase right now, due to some situational intense anger and stress a few months ago.)

I know it gets better after this, but:

Some 9/1s find work that lets them use their mind, but in a soft, fuzzy sort of way. Astrologers, palm-readers, crystal healers, puppeteers, storytellers, dressmakers.

I make fun of half those!

 

[Silveresque]

Those are the same parts I wasn't sure about for myself, also. And I related to some of the 9w1 description as well, but I found it interesting that despite a few bits that don't describe me (like the 2 sections at the end - physical and calling), every other part of that 9w8 description had me nailed on so many levels. The parts that didn't sound quite right are probably partly because I test second highest in E7.

Just because it doesn't describe you 100%, doesn't mean it isn't your type. I think whichever one describes you best in both your healthy and your unhealthy stages, is likely the one that fits best. But of course we're all still individuals, so there are gonna be things that are unique about you that the descriptions will miss, because beyond your type, you're YOU.

Hmmm...I guess I'll try 9w8. It feels so weird being w8 though.

 

[redcheerio]

I know it gets better after this, but:



I make fun of half those!

I know! I think the "calling" descriptions don't fit some of us AT ALL, especially NTPs, but I did find the healthy/unhealthy descriptions pretty spot on. How about you?

Do you also have a lot of 7 influence (common for NTP), like I do?

 

[redcheerio]

Hmmm...I guess I'll try 9w8. It feels so weird being w8 though.

Yeah, I don't relate to 8 much at all, but I think it's because 9 is so much different than 8. We don't see any of the 8 in ourselves until we're at our best, and then we have only the best of the 8.

 

[MacGuffin]

I know! I think the "calling" descriptions don't fit some of us AT ALL, especially NTPs, but I did find the healthy/unhealthy descriptions pretty spot on. How about you?

Do you also have a lot of 7 influence (common for NTP), like I do?

I did find those descriptions very good, but I'm not very 7ish. Maybe because I'm not an extravert?

 

[redcheerio]

I did find those descriptions very good, but I'm not very 7ish. Maybe because I'm not an extravert?

Ah, OK. I was just taking a wild guess. You might be right, maybe 7s are usually E.

What's your tritype, or what's your second highest E type after 9?

(Although, I'll bet INFP [MENTION=13402]Saturned[/MENTION] has a lot of 7 in her Enneagram.... [/derail])

 

[Anew Leaf]

Ah, OK. I was just taking a wild guess. You might be right, maybe 7s are usually E.

What's your tritype, or what's your second highest E type after 9?

(Although, I'll bet INFP [MENTION=13402]Saturned[/MENTION] has a lot of 7 in her Enneagram.... [/derail])

haha! you rang? /lurch from Addams Family says.

[MENTION=14216]RevlisZero[/MENTION]: To the forum's horror, I test as an INFP 4-9-5. So you can look at me if you want to see someone who posts as an ENFP 7, but actually isn't... or maybe is but hasn't realized it yet. I dunno...