[MBTI General] INFJs from the perspective of other types

[Esoteric Wench]

I need to work my NF magic upon thee!

I like that. There is such a thing as NF magic, isn't there?

 

[entropie]

Yea sure, the whole world is maaagic, it was made so, just for NFs

 

[Adasta]

xNFPs (including you, of course), on the other hand, tend to understand me (mostly by suppressing their annoyance with my Te-style pronouncements), and I find that they don't (usually) try to assert that they know "why" I feel a particular way, but they definitely know what I feel, on my terms. Thus I suspect INFJs might be hearing/intuiting an xNFP "why" that isn't really there.

I have a good friend who is INTJ. He is very easy for me to read. The only problem we ever had is that he never commits to anything until literally the evening before said date. It's so infuriating to plan anything with him around! Apart from that, everything is fine. There is a crispness to his thought that really appeals to me. I would prefer it more if he would put himself on the line (he always says "Well, it's difficult to say either way...") which sometimes I view as a weakness. But his intellectual integrity is never in doubt, and that is what I respect. We are only interested in the truth at the core of everything and so we talk on those terms.

Back to INFJs...

I have noticed that INFJs can get angry when they don't see the "why". I've also noticed that when they get caught in a Ni/Ti loop they start to act very oddly. They start to get very grumpy with everyone. People then start to ask what's wrong, but I think the INFJ gets annoyed/guilty that they feel as if those asking if they are okay expect them to act as if they were okay. I think then there is a mild panic because there's a lot of unspoken feeling going on with a lot of unspoken analysis. Then they feel pressured to make a decision.

That's just an empirical observation which isn't backed up by function theory. I might have it all wrong; INFJs are a curious lot.

 

[highlander]

I met an INFJ HR director in a management development program years ago (he thought I was an INFJ - haha!!). It's funny - we were paired up with one other person for an icebreaker exercise, asked to talk to each other for a while and then asked to share our positive and negative perceptions about the other person to the group. Well, the guy I was paired up with seemed likely to be an (I?)NTJ with poorly developed interpersonal skills. So the NTJ bluntly articulated a sparsity of good things and a number of bad things, several of which appeared to be projections on his part. The INFJ HR director who was sitting right across from me seemed horrified as to what this presumed NTJ said. You could see it in his face. I didn't have time to change any of what I was going to say or get upset - I was a little embarrassed and in shock. So, I said what I planned. I said lots of positive things about this NTJ and couched my bad things in diplomatic and complimentary terms - "strength becomes a weakness" or something like that. It made this guy look especially bad since he went first and I went right after him. It became obvious as to why this NTJ was in this five day management development program right at the beginning. Then this INFJ HR director comes up to me afterwards during the break - seeming to want to make sure that I was alright or something. That training was the first time I learned about the Johari/Nohari window and the shadow by the way. I already knew something about MBTI.

Anyway, that's the only INFJ I've knowingly met or interacted with other than people on this forum, though I've had suspicions on a couple that I never got to really know. I seem to like them quite a lot. There is some kind of common wavelength or kinship related to Ni being a dominant function and maybe both being Judgers. Yet, the insights they bring are completely different than those that I have. It's stimulating. I feel a bit of admiration for them really.

 

[Crescent Fresh]

I I've also noticed that when they get caught in a Ni/Ti loop they start to act very oddly. They start to get very grumpy with everyone. People then start to ask what's wrong, but I think the INFJ gets annoyed/guilty that they feel as if those asking if they are okay expect them to act as if they were okay. I think then there is a mild panic because there's a lot of unspoken feeling going on with a lot of unspoken analysis. Then they feel pressured to make a decision.

+10.

Wow, you've perfectly explained it well with great details. And thanks to your post, it has gotten me thinking about my reactions to past conflicts.

The Ni/Ti loop is something INFJ always struggle with. It's a constant battle between "I have got to let this out!" and "I should avoid being explode in front of others!"

First and foremost, I bet most INFJs know the terrible consequence once we unleash our anger on someone as we take it very personally of our own misbehaviors. It's usually clouded with so much dark energy that we just wish it'll disappear, I swear. Though as Fe user, we are incapable of hiding our deepest frustrations as Fi users, who are brilliant of masking their inner-feelings, especially the negative aspects. And believe me that when I say we really tried to mask our grumpiness, it would seem like an impossible mission for us.

Then when we're being approached by others to check on us, we tend to feel even more sensitive about it as we are still fighting within our inner-self to calm down, or at least to drive those negative emotions away. So it really depends on the timing I would say. If we are being confronted at a bad time, then we tend to just explode. Thus, the best thing to do is to leave us alone. Though I know Fi users are capable of leaving at site to avoid any confrontation from others when they're at grumpy stage. INFJ tend to put themselves in a test of trying to gain a self-control as storming out the room will just make others to speculate even more (that could be just me, not necessary to imply to all INFJs).

One thing you have to know that is INFJ's mind is constantly being drilled through the vortex endlessly, even if they're in a normal state. So imagine the Ni-Fi loops is facing an inner-conflicts, that we ended up micro-focusing on having our thoughts sort out without scanning the environment (perhaps due to our inferior Se function). We tend to need A LENGTHY amount of time to sort conflicts out, and for me, that will never happen within the same day as it usually take days or weeks for us to sort it out on our own. Once we're able to find more time to do that, we'll be able to think from other perspectives more, or just randomly trying to make excuses for the offenders so that we can settle for an inner-peace of mind. I think the biggest issue here is that when INFJ themselves is facing such dilemma, they tend to prefer to sort it out on their own; whereas when INFJ felt they were "involved" in other's conflicts, they eagerly seek out for confirmation from others in order to settle it down quickly. Perhaps this is something that most people felt INFJ can be selfish in some ways as we really do need a lot of personal space and time to deal with our complexity of our own emotions.

I can't represent all INFJs here, but this is what I have learned about myself from exploring MBTI and comparing it with my past conflicts with others.

 

[Crescent Fresh]

The INFJ HR director who was sitting right across from me seemed horrified as to what this presumed NTJ said. You could see it in his face. ... Then this INFJ HR director comes up to me afterwards during the break - seeming to want to make sure that I was alright or something.

I can certainly empathize how your HR director felt as I've been in many similar situations! As a team leader and a teacher, I always have to double-check on my co-worker's or student's emotional state after seeing them having a conflict with others. I think it also has a lot to do with the incredible amount of responsibility due to job title AND our own nature of wanting to settle things (especially among peers) in harmony.

That's why I really dislike to take the 'leading' role as I felt the emotional investment on keeping everything in tact can be mentally draining.

 

[Adasta]

Though as Fe user, we are incapable of hiding our deepest frustrations as Fi users, who are brilliant of masking their inner-feelings, especially the negative aspects. And believe me that when I say we really tried to mask our grumpiness, it would seem like an impossible mission for us.

I think INFPs and INFJ both use "the list". When someone crosses us, that person is added to "the list". The way we deal with it is different, however. The INFJ will almost become nicer than nice. It's like, if an INFJ baked a cake and someone criticised it, I feel like the INFJ would be really bitter and say "Well, let's just see who has the best cake next week!" and then revel in the fact that they draw all the plaudits the following week while being nice as pie to their detractor.

An INFP (4w5) would add someone to "the list" in order to drop them. I have so many people on this list. They are people I have marked "Can't be bothered - Not worth it". They are pushed out beyond the city walls and are forever banished. They'll never see my feelings anymore; I'll just tell them I don't like them and that's okay because we cannot love everybody. Then I will carry on my life without them.

 

[Crescent Fresh]

I think INFPs and INFJ both use "the list". When someone crosses us, that person is added to "the list". The way we deal with it is different, however. The INFJ will almost become nicer than nice. It's like, if an INFJ baked a cake and someone criticised it, I feel like the INFJ would be really bitter and say "Well, let's just see who has the best cake next week!" and then revel in the fact that they draw all the plaudits the following week while being nice as pie to their detractor.

I'm not too sure about your example as valid since when it comes to constructive criticism, then your example would make sense. Though when someone crosses us with an ill-will attempt, I think INFJ also drop them like pancakes instantly. Basically, I think most INFJs try their best to "avoid" people who constantly putting them down. Along with our uncanny ability to see-through people, we usually do not waste time on building a bond with someone who we consider as toxic. Although INFJs are more prone to sacrifice themselves for pursuing a harmonious atmosphere, we tend to ignore or distance ourselves away from people who crosses us, I think.

So are you saying INFPs are more prone to draw a line with people indefinitely who had crosses with them by dropping them on their lists?

 

[Wanderer]

I think INFPs and INFJ both use "the list". When someone crosses us, that person is added to "the list". The way we deal with it is different, however. The INFJ will almost become nicer than nice. It's like, if an INFJ baked a cake and someone criticised it, I feel like the INFJ would be really bitter and say "Well, let's just see who has the best cake next week!" and then revel in the fact that they draw all the plaudits the following week while being nice as pie to their detractor.

I think this is fairly correct actually; but not entirely the same? Maybe this is just me, but I tend to be very forgiving; it's hard to make it to "the list" with me. Bitterness and full rejection doesn't happen until/unless someone consistently harms me, or if someone betrays me in some sort of a massive way

Once someone does fit that criteria though..

An INFP (4w5) would add someone to "the list" in order to drop them. I have so many people on this list. They are people I have marked "Can't be bothered - Not worth it". They are pushed out beyond the city walls and are forever banished. They'll never see my feelings anymore; I'll just tell them I don't like them and that's okay because we cannot love everybody. Then I will carry on my life without them.

I add people to the "list" to remove them from my life. I don't have many people on this list. They are people I have marked as "cannot be trusted, and have caused too much pain." They are pushed out beyond the city walls and are forever banished. They'll never see my feelings anymore, because if I have my way they will never see or hear from me again. I'll just tell them "I'm sorry, you hurt me too deeply, and more to the point, I don't see how I could ever trust you again. Without that, why would we bother trying to be friends?" I tell myself I did my best and I gave them every chance I could, and I pick up the pieces and try to move on.

I don't know if that's how it works for other INFJ's or not. Just my personal perspective.

 

[Adasta]

So are you saying INFPs are more prone to draw a line with people indefinitely who had crosses with them by dropping them on their lists?

Yeah.

I get the feeling INFJs are just too nice to actually display this. I know that they write people off too, but I get the feeling that their Fe doesn't allow them to express this in front of others; there's a fear it might make things "uncomfortable". Therefore they just like to ensure they are on top of things and like to chip in here and there to let everyone know that, actually, they don't like this person.

 

[Crescent Fresh]

Yeah.

I get the feeling INFJs are just too nice to actually display this. I know that they write people off too, but I get the feeling that their Fe doesn't allow them to express this in front of others; there's a fear it might make things "uncomfortable". Therefore they just like to ensure they are on top of things and like to chip in here and there to let everyone know that, actually, they don't like this person.

What about ENFP and ENFJ? I'm not sure if this is type related but I've seen the similar behaviors among them.

 

[Tiltyred]

+10.

One thing you have to know that is INFJ's mind is constantly being drilled through the vortex endlessly, even if they're in a normal state. So imagine the Ni-Fi loops is facing an inner-conflicts, that we ended up micro-focusing on having our thoughts sort out without scanning the environment (perhaps due to our inferior Se function). We tend to need A LENGTHY amount of time to sort conflicts out, and for me, that will never happen within the same day as it usually take days or weeks for us to sort it out on our own. Once we're able to find more time to do that, we'll be able to think from other perspectives more, or just randomly trying to make excuses for the offenders so that we can settle for an inner-peace of mind. I think the biggest issue here is that when INFJ themselves is facing such dilemma, they tend to prefer to sort it out on their own; whereas when INFJ felt they were "involved" in other's conflicts, they eagerly seek out for confirmation from others in order to settle it down quickly. Perhaps this is something that most people felt INFJ can be selfish in some ways as we really do need a lot of personal space and time to deal with our complexity of our own emotions.

This is good.

Random:

Ugh! The "nice" thing. It's true for me that I'm nice even if I don't feel like it because I can't live with myself if I'm not. It's not being nice because I think other people expect me to be nice. It's being nice because I'll torture myself later if I'm not. I also fully expect that the other person will notice I'm forcing myself to be nice and at least give me credit for trying, rather than condemnation that I'm being fake.

The grumpy thing: Grumpy usually means we're tired. It's a good time for a snuggle, not a talk.

I think we're so sensitive to criticism because we are critical. The other person has no idea the stuff we've seen and let slide. So the criticism needs to be necessary, otherwise it feels unjust. If I don't put your faults in your face, I don't want you to put mine in mine.

Regarding promises broken -- over time, I've learned to credit the good intent and let it go at that. It's cleaner to let go of any real expectation of it materializing. It's ok that it was "just" good intent. It's gravy if it actually happens. This point of view keeps resentments from building and helps me not isolate from people who mean well but lack follow-through. It's also nice to know I can indulge an occasional whim and not follow-through, too, and not get too hard a time about it.

One last edit: I've learned that some types do what I do in my head aloud. That when they're speaking, it doesn't mean I'm supposed to listen and take notes (my tendency). I don't talk the process, I think it -- some people talk it. That's helped me, hope it helps someone else.

 

[SilkRoad]

I add people to the "list" to remove them from my life. I don't have many people on this list. They are people I have marked as "cannot be trusted, and have caused too much pain." They are pushed out beyond the city walls and are forever banished. They'll never see my feelings anymore, because if I have my way they will never see or hear from me again. I'll just tell them "I'm sorry, you hurt me too deeply, and more to the point, I don't see how I could ever trust you again. Without that, why would we bother trying to be friends?" I tell myself I did my best and I gave them every chance I could, and I pick up the pieces and try to move on.

I don't know if that's how it works for other INFJ's or not. Just my personal perspective.

Yeah, I'm like that too with my list. It's short, but a few people might never come off it. They end up there if the emotional pain of having them in my life would be too great. Sometimes they get a speech from me, sometimes they don't, but they know or will find out sooner or later why they ended up on the list. I'll probably feel great pain at the thought of them for at least a few months or possibly years, then I'll get to a place of indifference.

 

[redcheerio]

My INFJ sister is what you get when you mix all the positive traits of an INTJ with all the positive traits that NFs are known for.

Intelligent, analytical, rational, has everything planned & organized, sweet, modest, great mom, seems like a great manager at work, people pleaser, has no enemies.

 

[Southern Kross]

Now here's the thing: I am not a mind-reader. I try not to presume the "why". I feel what I feel from another person, yes. And I will attempt to figure that out. It may mean I guess though or even project, to try to draw someone out, put myself in those shoes and ascertain what's got another person so upset. INFJ's seem to get really upset when you guess the "why" wrong though. So if I get the emotional state "right", but the reason "wrong", I am thusly "written off". It's kind of annoying, actually. It makes me pretty much want to ignore their emo signals and avoid them until they are ready to talk.

Very interesting insight. This gives me much to think about.

Perhaps this is related to the INFJ inclination to focus on a particular individual, in a particular scenario when they are reading someone: what's going on in their head, their thoughts, feelings, motivations in that moment etc. Whereas the INFP seeks to understand individuals through generalisations: common patterns of human behaviour, comparing and contrasting that person to their previous behaviour or to that of others in similar circumstances. In this sense INFPs are looking at aren't considering the "whys" as much, because that is too specific to the situation (and see attempting to ascertain them to be pure speculation) but the specifics are exactly what the INFJs are focused on. They seem to see the "whys" as key to uncover the "whats".

 

[Synth]

Looking over all these posts, speculations, interactions, and guesses its hard to find anywhere to lay my input. I expected to find a lot more questions than fact based responses. Gods know why. I'm on a forum dedicated to MBTI after all. However in all of this, Ive yet to really see anyone just up and use a "personal" opinion sans the MBTI perspective. I guess you could say I'm honestly perturbed that I'm seeing virtually everyone allow themselves to be "classified" in such broad sweeping terms. Especially given that theoretically there are only sixteen confirmed "ways" to think according to this thing.

Please dont take this as I dont enjoy it here or take anything I say from a negative perspective. MBTI is a wonderful way to help us better understand ourselves, but am I the only one who finds that using the MBTI as a primary way to identify oneself a bit....odd?

My point being is that all of this feels personally impersonal to me. I see a bunch of people connecting one on one with each other, but its fueled with "my NF clashes with your NT" and "this INFP works well with my ENTJ".

Its personally not how Id envision building a relationship friend or otherwise on. I wont disparage it as it works for people. So Im just going to ask. Does anyone have thoughts on it? Its kind of been bugging me for awhile.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Looking over all these posts, speculations, interactions, and guesses its hard to find anywhere to lay my input. I expected to find a lot more questions than fact based responses. Gods know why. I'm on a forum dedicated to MBTI after all. However in all of this, Ive yet to really see anyone just up and use a "personal" opinion sans the MBTI perspective. I guess you could say I'm honestly perturbed that I'm seeing virtually everyone allow themselves to be "classified" in such broad sweeping terms. Especially given that theoretically there are only sixteen confirmed "ways" to think according to this thing.

Please dont take this as I dont enjoy it here or take anything I say from a negative perspective. MBTI is a wonderful way to help us better understand ourselves, but am I the only one who finds that using the MBTI as a primary way to identify oneself a bit....odd?

No, but those guys are boring. Or crotchety. Look up Solitary Walker's stuff. You might like that. MBTI springs from Jung, which is more pure typology and doesn't assign behavior-oriented classifications, like modern systems tend to.

 

[Synth]

No, but those guys are boring. Or crotchety. Look up Solitary Walker's stuff. You might like that. MBTI springs from Jung, which is more pure typology and doesn't assign behavior-oriented classifications, like modern systems tend to.

I knew Jung gave us typology and all that jazz. It just didnt occur to me that it would become a primary mode of identification. Im more for "I know how you think according to this thing, but how do you *really* think"? Make sense?

 

[uncommonentity]

My overall experience with INFJs has been negative. I could litter this page in paragraphs of experiences riddled with absolute insanity but I feel I can just simplify it by saying a lot of INFJ females don't have any grip on themselves. I can't speak on behalf of the males. I hear they're a cool bunch but I've never come across any. They're very sensitive people who harness the joint ability to manipulate others.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I knew Jung gave us typology and all that jazz. It just didnt occur to me that it would become a primary mode of identification. Im more for "I know how you think according to this thing, but how do you *really* think"? Make sense?

Yeah, I've always wished people would keep their posts personal only and not stereotype so much according to type. I think, though, the fact that people tend to do it means that there is something deeper and identifiable about people that do prefer similar functions; I think there are patterns of behavior that might be more likely to occur in people who use similar functions in the same degree.

My overall experience with INFJs has been negative. I could litter this page in paragraphs of experiences riddled with absolute insanity but I feel I can just simplify it by saying a lot of INFJ females don't have any grip on themselves. I can't speak on behalf of the males. I hear they're a cool bunch but I've never come across any. They're very sensitive people.

I can't believe I'm hearing this from a fellow Ni-er. You must be jaded. That's it, isn't it. There is no other way you could not us; it's in your dna.

The males are sensitive, but the ones I know are never happy for long, always chasing the end of some new rainbow. Though they are very loving and poetic while you have their attention.