What's your religion?

[Mole]

I am willing to open up to your ideas, but for that you have to rebuke mine thoroughly first. I don't claim to own any truth, but I think that my beliefs are the best I hae encountered so far. The process of dialectic argument is what allows me to update my views. The fact that you don't want to play could make me believe that you are unsure about your views and would actually not argue as a defence mechanism.

I am not defending against anything, I have stated my ideas clear, they are not defined by what they are not, they are defined by what they are, and they are here. You can have all the fun questioning them, destroying them. I will end up ideologically more mature out of it, and you will have the pleasure of knowing that you were right if I admit that you convinced me.

I have not the slightest interest in proving you wrong.

 

[Loxias]

I have not the slightest interest in proving you wrong.

Then you can go on in you little world of big delusions. I accept my victory and shall now celebrate it.

 

[Valiant]

Local Jesus :
Have you had any spiritual/transcendental experience in particular that led you towards Celtic heathenry? Is it in reverence of your ancestry? Or a choice of more aesthetic/romantic nature?
What made you adopt this particular path?

I'm very primal and close to nature in many regards.
As for experiences, yes, it could be called that. Also a yes on the ancestry question.
Aesthetically/romantically, it also fits like a glove.

 

[Snuggletron]

whoa, long thread (predictably so)

I'm agnostic. I don't really crave faith in anything.

 

[uberrogo]

American Orthodox Catholic

 

[matmos]

I am willing to open up to your ideas, but for that you have to rebuke mine thoroughly first.

It's customary for the propounder of an idea to supply evidence. The notion that an idea must be "rebuked thoroughly" before it is in some way discredited is something that has been dealt with soundly before the birth of this thread...

Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of sceptics to disprove received dogmas rather than of dogmatists to prove them. This is, of course, a mistake. If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense.

Sauce: Is There a God? by Bertrand Russell

I have not the slightest interest in proving you wrong.

Indeed.

Then you can go on in you little world of big delusions. I accept my victory and shall now celebrate it.

You've suggested Victor is deluded and humbly accept "victory" followed by a celebration.

Victor may well be deluded, or perhaps he is not, but you have little to celebrate.

All the best.

 

[Loxias]

It's customary for the propounder of an idea to supply evidence. The notion that an idea must be "rebuked thoroughly" before it is in some way discredited is something that has been dealt with soundly before the birth of this thread...

I thought I had given some evidence, at least to go against his claims. I don't understand why he wouldn't want to prove me wrong, even on the arguments that I brought against his claims. Or what there is to "indeed" about.

Victor may well be deluded, or perhaps he is not, but you have little to celebrate.

That's true. It was immature.

 

[Mole]

Self Expression and Active Listening

I don't understand why he [Victor] wouldn't want to prove me wrong...

I have slowly come to see that arguing and debate are psychological defence mechanisms.

However my father told me I should never criticize without offering something in its place.

So instead of arguing and debate, I offer self expression.

Self expression enables us to grow as persons and is the basis of art.

And just as rights are balanced by responsibilities, so self expression is balanced by active listening.

But the truth is we do far too much arguing and debating here, and not enough expressing and listening.

 

[simulatedworld]

But the truth is we do far too much arguing and debating here

No we don't!

 

[Mole]

No we don't!

Yes we do!

 

[Loxias]

I guess I might be too accustomed to the idea of growth through confrontation, and it's not the first time I have noticed it being a liability. I guess part of the reasons for that are the way I have been educated (that is : strong parental criticism used to make me react in a better direction).
You've got a point.
But I don't believe that argument is a defence mechanism. It can bring great enlightenments and conclusions.

Also, not everyone is ready to actively listen to any kind of self-expression. There is often a threshold of quality to be crossed for most people to listen to what one has to say.
Does self-expression that no one wants to listen to enable us to grow as persons?
And besides that, even if self-expression was always benefiting to the person that expresses themselves, sometimes it can be very unenjoyable to the rest of the people, if not downright hurtful. Self-expression without taking into account the possible impact of what is expressed is not something that I would approve of.

 

[Mole]

I guess I might be too accustomed to the idea of growth through confrontation, and it's not the first time I have noticed it being a liability. I guess part of the reasons for that are the way I have been educated (that is : strong parental criticism used to make me react in a better direction).
You've got a point.
But I don't believe that argument is a defence mechanism. It can bring great enlightenments and conclusions.

Also, not everyone is ready to actively listen to any kind of self-expression. There is often a threshold of quality to be crossed for most people to listen to what one has to say.
Does self-expression that no one wants to listen to enable us to grow as persons?
And besides that, even if self-expression was always benefiting to the person that expresses themselves, sometimes it can be very unenjoyable to the rest of the people, if not downright hurtful. Self-expression without taking into account the possible impact of what is expressed is not something that I would approve of.

Yes, self expression and active listening are both disciplines that can be practised.

And just as no one expects to become a Black Belt without practice, so we can't expect to achieve self expression and active listening without practice.

And of course there is a place for debate in the world. And our Parliament, just up the road, is one such place.

Your parents have taught you to criticize and to respond to criticizism. So now you can balance that by slowly learning self expression and active listening. And then think what a well rounded person you will be.

 

[Nyx]

No you wouldn't be ethnically Jewish. You would be a religious convert.

To further the point, there are many Jewish who don't practice the Jewish religion. And there are a few non ethnic Jewish people who practice the Jewish religion (as converts), and who, if their convertion is halachically correct will be considered Jews by most (at least, that's how I understand it).

As long as the conversion is done by an Orthodox rabbi, a convert is seen as fully Jewish, his past is irrelevant in that regard. Any children of the convert, if a woman, will be considered Jewish. Jewish identity is NOT related to race. It is about a covenant made with God (bringing the truth of God unto the goy (or nations), they are Chosen because they are to be a moral/spiritual light unto the nations). They are not an ethnic group, only a nation, or solely a religion... they are a People... this is a very complex subject, really... that's is the basic idea of it. The matter of being Jewish, while you can trace it genetically to certain groups of people, is ultimately a matter of the soul and spirit, not the body.

But I haven't converted. Hypothetically she did. I would be matrilineally a Jew, by birth, despite being "ethnically" half Innuit?

Again, yes, you would be considered a Jew, since there is not such thing as being "ethnically Jewish", but simply being Jewish. There are certain groups of Jews that are prevalent and reach back to even to Biblical times (Some in Africa and Yemen, etc) because that is were Judaism began with the Semitic people (descendants of Shem), but there are Jews of all ethnicity, especially because of diaspora... tying Judaism to race might lead you into dangerous territory...

 

[Loxias]

As long as the conversion is done by an Orthodox rabbi, a convert is seen as fully Jewish, his past is irrelevant in that regard. Any children of the convert, if a woman, will be considered Jewish. Jewish identity is NOT related to race. It is about a covenant made with God. They are not an ethnic group, only a nation, or solely a religion... they are a People... this is a very complex subject, really... that's is the basic idea of it. The matter of being Jewish, while you can trace it genetically to certain groups of people, is ultimately a matter of the soul and spirit, not the body.

This approach makes more sense to me. I guess I have misinterpreted what I percieved from the Jewish communities I have encountered.
But still I wonder. Do you think a Jewish person will feel more affinity with an atheistic Jew than with an atheistic gentile?

Also, would my father be considered Jewish or more Jewish than the average gentile, since his mother is born to a Jewish mother (true fact)? Considering that he has never been brought up in a Jewish tradition.

 

[Fecal McAngry]

This approach makes more sense to me. I guess I have misinterpreted what I percieved from the Jewish communities I have encountered.
But still I wonder. Do you think a Jewish person will feel more affinity with an atheistic Jew than with an atheistic gentile?

Also, would my father be considered Jewish or more Jewish than the average gentile, since his mother is born to a Jewish mother (true fact)? Considering that he has never been brought up in a Jewish tradition.

I respectfully disagree with the previous poster. Judaism is of course a religion, but Jews also constitute a culture with an "ethnic identity" not unlike say, the members of

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_Shore_(TV_series)

Secular Jewish culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Daedalus]

Atheist Hindu

ps:
it goes without saying that i'm a secular humanist as well

 

[IntrovertedThinker]

Atheist, here. There is no God.

 

[gromit]

Truth, love, beauty.

 

[Pixelholic]

Agnostic Atheist.

 

[Nonsensical]

well I bet you all would never think you'd here the day when I'd tell you that..

I am Agnostic..