Poll: Do ENTJs have a tendency to micromanage the work of others?

[Nocapszy]

i like the math in this thread.

MBTI by numbers, ONE TWO THREE!
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chiVMrWMHko]ONE TWO THREE![/youtube]

 

[simulatedworld]

It isnt.

If Te is management, then TeSi is micromanagement and TeNi is macromanagement. I don't think anybody can/will dispute these correlations.

I don't see how a TeNi user can regularly fall victim to using a function that shows up like 7th on their functional order.

Because Si isn't necessary for micromanagement. Te does that on its own. You're somehow forgetting that no matter how much Ni doesn't like detail, it's not the attitude that has the most influence on ENTJs--Te is, and Te micromanages.

It's a matter of degree, not black and white or binary yes/no. TeSi micromanages to a greater extent than TeNi, but both have a tendency to do it. So do FeSi and FeNi (though FeSi does it to a greater extent.)

Once again the question is whether others tend to feel that ENTJs are micromanaging them, not whether the ENTJ actually thinks he's micromanaging.

I get that Ni doesn't like details--what I don't get is how you've reasoned that because TeSi's micromanaging is worse, TeNi doesn't micromanage at all. That really doesn't follow.

 

[yenom]

Yes, they are. Because they want to things to be done exactly the way they want it to be done. Setting deadlines, executing orders, telling people when to complete what step at what time and following the schedule and plan.

They are a little better than ESTJs, but not that much better.

 

[simulatedworld]

I find INTJs and ISTJs pretty micro-managey.

But I see what you're saying here. However, aren't we looking at a bit of a contextual problem? I believe all of this emerged out of the assertion that ENTJs micro-manage their romantic partners, no? Can we assume this is true?

If Te is clearly more associated with micromanaging than Ni, and you don't think ENTJs micromanage, how do you reason that INTJs do it?

As for romantic partners, I've seen cases of ENTJs who did that, but obviously many don't. I don't know if a significant number of them do or not.

I was just poking fun at the image of ENTJs as dictatorial tyrants when I said that, but then the conversation went into deconstructing the reasons for that image itself, so I shifted to discussing ENTJs and micromanaging in a generalized context.

P.S.,

I got this rep comment from a member who wishes to remain anonymous:

I am pretty sure my mother was ENTJ, she'd try to micromanage your bathroom habits for crying out loud.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

I am pretty sure my mother was ENTJ, she'd try to micromanage your bathroom habits for crying out loud.

THAT.

SOUNDS.

AWESOME!!!!!!!!!

 

[Venom]

Because Si isn't necessary for micromanagement. Te does that on its own. You're somehow forgetting that no matter how much Ni doesn't like detail, it's not the attitude that has the most influence on ENTJs--Te is, and Te micromanages.

It's a matter of degree, not black and white or binary yes/no. TeSi micromanages to a greater extent than TeNi, but both have a tendency to do it. So do FeSi and FeNi (though FeSi does it to a greater extent.)

Once again the question is whether others tend to feel that ENTJs are micromanaging them, not whether the ENTJ actually thinks he's micromanaging.

I get that Ni doesn't like details--what I don't get is how you've reasoned that because TeSi's micromanaging is worse, TeNi doesn't micromanage at all. That really doesn't follow.

Haven't read the read and don't intend to, but my first instinct is that *micromanage* is not the correct word.
The ENTJs I've had close contact with seem to be broad mangers, as in taking responsibility for the alleged incompetence of others in areas that would normally be considered to be noneoftheirbusiness. I've never noticed an odd attention to detail, but more of a bigger picture, *I know what's missing here and I know what principle I hold that will fix it* kind of attitude. But half the time their instructions are too broad and cryptic for me to apply in any micro-fashion, even if I wanted to.

Micromanaging seems to be more of an SJ/Fe thing, if we're going to be making gross generalizations.

It isnt.

If Te is management, then TeSi is micromanagement and TeNi is macromanagement. I don't think anybody can/will dispute these correlations.

I don't see how a TeNi user can regularly fall victim to using a function that shows up like 7th on their functional order.

Dictionary.com defines micromanage as: "to manage or control with excessive attention to minor details"

ENXJs are macromanagers.

Sim 0
JJ 1

 

[Jaguar]

Dictionary.com defines micromanage as: "to manage or control with excessive attention to minor details"

ENXJs are macromanagers.

Sim 0
JJ 1

I'm laughing that Sim had the audacity to bitch about where someone put a comma in a single sentence, but accuses ENTJs of "micromanaging."

 

[FDG]

I don't think this can be really considered one of our defects...

 

[simulatedworld]

Dictionary.com defines micromanage as: "to manage or control with excessive attention to minor details"

ENXJs are macromanagers.

Sim 0
JJ 1

Why, because your MBTI profile says, "Ss like details and Ns don't"?

Hate to break it to you, but that's a nasty oversimplification of a much more nuanced functional theory.

Te can pay excessive attention to minor details on its own, without the help of an introverted perception function.

You guys are kidding yourselves if you think auxiliary Ni prevents you from ever getting mired in irrelevant details.

Much as Ns may like to believe otherwise about themselves, they can very petulant about things that violate the principles of their judging functions.

If you think Ns can't focus excessively on minor details, look at the way INTPs nitpick the shit out of logical incorrectness and slightly off shades of meaning. Why would they have a reputation for nitpicking if Ns always ignore trivial details?

xNxx types don't ignore details; the N function does.

Unfortunately, half of the xNxx types place a judgment faculty in a higher position than their N function, and judgment functions quite frequently do focus on minor details.

Micromanaging the environment is a function of Te/Fe, not a perception function. ESTJs will do it worse than ENTJs, but you're relying on a dumb MBTI oversimplification of N/S types if you think being an N type means you're immune to focusing on minor details.

Go read up on Te.

I'm laughing that Sim had the audacity to bitch about where someone put a comma in a single sentence, but accuses ENTJs of "micromanaging."

This actually helps my point. I'm dominant in an N function and I can still focus on trivial details when they violate the principles of my judgment faculty, Ti. "BUT I'M AN N TYPE SO I'M IMMUNE TO GETTING STUCK IN TRIVIAL DETAILS WAAHHHHH"

Nope, the judgment function is responsible for that, not your perception.

Try working with an INFP on an artistic project and see how much his incessant perfectionism insists that every detail be precisely as he wants it. Being an N type doesn't give you a magical free pass to never get stuck on minor details--what a dumb argument.

 

[FDG]

I haven't found them to be micromanagers.

I clash with micromanagers (my ITSJ mom for example who I love v much but can't work with), but in fact the ENTJ's I have known who have annoyed me as managers, has been for the following reasons:

for being often too vague and unclear in instructions while inflexible in their assessment,
unpredictable/eratic
often stand-offish (though overbearing in the realm of opinions)

The typical "bad" ENTJ manager to me, is like a hurtling truck towards a cliff, tunnel visioned, oblivious to others perception of them, paranoid and aggressive towards anyone outside of their "loyal" clique...more like a politician in decline than a "micromanager".

Yeah, this seems accurate.

 

[Jaguar]

I'm dominant in an N function

Face it, you're really ESTJ.

 

[simulatedworld]

I don't think this can be really considered one of our defects...

And INTPs don't think they give excessive attention to nitpicking trivial details of logical consistency...and yet most other types do. Objective self-analysis is tough.

 

[Little Linguist]

Just for fun:

ESTJ: Micromanager
ENTJ: Macromanager
ENFJ: People Manager
ESTP: Disaster Control (aka Kick-Ass-and-Take-Names) Manager

ESFJ: Master of Ceremonies (manager)
ESFP: Collegiality and Diversion Manager
ENTP: Chaos Production Manager
ENFP: Possibilities and Brainstorming Manager

ISFJ: Personnel Manager
ISTJ: Industrial Manager
INFJ: Manager for the Protection of Workers' and Human Rights
INTJ: Systems Manager

ISTP: Device Manager
ISFP: Trend Manager
INTP: Development Manager
INFP: Manager of the Better Bureau and Ethics Department

 

[simulatedworld]

Face it, you're really ESTJ.

You're the one always railing against set function orders. What about ENTJs who give more weight to Se than to Ni?

You don't think Te+Se is capable of micromanaging? Think again, champ.

 

[FDG]

And INTPs don't think they give excessive attention to nitpicking trivial details of logical consistency...and yet most other types do. Objective self-analysis is tough.

Well, I agreed with the other poster, which was describing other qualities. i could see myself giving a rather vague picture of an assignment, while having quite a clear picture in my head of what I want it to be, and then get pissed if the result don't match. Which is quite bad.
Micromanagement tho would mean that I'd have to check the whole process of execution constantly...jesus...deadly boring. I'd rather develop some other new idea while other people do their work.

 

[simulatedworld]

Well, I agreed with the other poster, which was describing other qualities. i could see myself giving a rather vague picture of an assignment, while having quite a clear picture in my head of what I want it to be, and then get pissed if the result don't match. Which is quite bad.
Micromanagement tho would mean that I'd have to check the whole process of execution constantly...jesus...deadly boring. I'd rather develop some other new idea while other people do their work.

The problem is that the amount of external control you consider necessary and justified differs from the amount other people consider necessary and justified.

So what you see as "just doing your job" will look like excessive micromanaging from the perspectives of many other people, especially if you think someone is slacking or not holding up his responsibilities.

ENTJs may not enjoy micromanaging, but often they believe everyone around them to be so incompetent that they consider it their duty in order to save the entire project from total failure. "I'm the only competent one here, and if you want something done right you have to do it yourself!"

 

[Little Linguist]

RAWRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!

I'm a micromanager, so watch out!!!!!!! I will hunt you down and curse you for all the grammar mistakes you have done, do, and will ever do!!!!!!!

 

[BlueFlame]

Why, because your MBTI profile says, "Ss like details and Ns don't"?

Hate to break it to you, but that's a nasty oversimplification of a much more nuanced functional theory.

Te can pay excessive attention to minor details on its own, without the help of an introverted perception function.

You guys are kidding yourselves if you think auxiliary Ni prevents you from ever getting mired in irrelevant details.

Much as Ns may like to believe otherwise about themselves, they can very petulant about things that violate the principles of their judging functions.

If you think Ns can't focus excessively on minor details, look at the way INTPs nitpick the shit out of logical incorrectness and slightly off shades of meaning. Why would they have a reputation for nitpicking if Ns always ignore trivial details?

xNxx types don't ignore details; the N function does.

Unfortunately, half of the xNxx types place a judgment faculty in a higher position than their N function, and judgment functions quite frequently do focus on minor details.

Micromanaging the environment is a function of Te/Fe, not a perception function. ESTJs will do it worse than ENTJs, but you're relying on a dumb MBTI oversimplification of N/S types if you think being an N type means you're immune to focusing on minor details.

Go read up on Te.




This actually helps my point. I'm dominant in an N function and I can still focus on trivial details when they violate the principles of my judgment faculty, Ti. "BUT I'M AN N TYPE SO I'M IMMUNE TO GETTING STUCK IN TRIVIAL DETAILS WAAHHHHH"

Nope, the judgment function is responsible for that, not your perception.

Try working with an INFP on an artistic project and see how much his incessant perfectionism insists that every detail be precisely as he wants it. Being an N type doesn't give you a magical free pass to never get stuck on minor details--what a dumb argument.

Wait for it....
Wait for it....






Woohoo! I have been waiting my entire month on TypeC for the chance to use that.
Much appreciated.

 

[JustHer]

Wait for it....
Wait for it....






Woohoo! I have been waiting my entire month on TypeC for the chance to use that.
Much appreciated.

HA HA HA

I had to google strawman argument but before I did, that was the most awesome face thing ever.

 

[simulatedworld]

Wait for it....
Wait for it....






Woohoo! I have been waiting my entire month on TypeC for the chance to use that.
Much appreciated.

Um, no. It's not a straw man. Look at his post:

Dictionary.com defines micromanage as: "to manage or control with excessive attention to minor details"

ENXJs are macromanagers.

He italicized "with excessive attention to minor details" in order to illustrate his contention that Ns don't manage with excessive attention to minor details. This is based on the popular MBTI myth that "Ss like details and Ns like the big picture."

Unfortunately for him, Ns can and do manage with excessive attention to minor details when a non-N Judgment function is governing their behavior...which happens quite often with types who place a Judgment function above the N function.

This is really not that difficult.