Anger

[Totenkindly]

I never knew well how to harness anger or when to express it.

Normally I just buried it until it would build up and explode. So essentially the anger I was experiencing might have been justified from a long pattern of violation that I was experiencing, but my expression of it was not (it usually seemed to come out of the blue to outside observers).

Sometimes now I allow myself to express anger when I don't have to. I'm not sure all the time that it is right (because I really monitor my behavior and try hard to kind and calm to avoid hurting others).

For example, I snapped at someone in my blog today, but it was a conscious choice: I wanted to let them know the impact on me of their comments, which I felt were inappropriate for the conversation we were having. And I felt their comments were deserving of an angry response, in order to reaffirm the boundaries of what I am willing to accept. But I'm still not sure if I should have or not, because I was choosing to allow anger to be expressed rather than being able to say I couldn't help myself. So obviously I still have an anger issue: Emotionally I still assume that anger shouldn't be expressed if you can control it, which intellectually I don't think that is correct.

After I choose to express anger, I always wonder if I should have, or should I have simply controlled it and not expressed it. I don't know.

 

[Maverick]

After I choose to express anger, I always wonder if I should have, or should I have simply controlled it and not expressed it. I don't know.

I think I know how you feel because I've been through similar dilemnas. I have wondered "was it warranted to show anger or should have exercized self-control?". I think it's a difficult decision that really relies on our personal sense of morality and right/wrong. IMO all action is influenced by values. When we choose to act, we commit to an idea or belief. This is one of the reasons I believe some NT's, and in particular INTP's, may be reluctant to act because they wish to remain objective and commit to a subjectivity through action.

I have usually found that accepting the fact that, regardless of right or wrong, my angry feelings are valid as they are has been very helpful. I have found that simply telling people that I am angry about what they did and disagree, while trying my best to stay respectful, has been very positive in enhancing my relationships with others.

For example, one of my friends recently did something that I did not agree with at all which involved me directly. I decided to talk to him immediately and tell him what I thought. I stated my point of view calmly without blaming him. It came out very well and he actually thanked me for being honest and apologized. I think we both ended up respecting each other more after our conversation. Such progress would not have been possible without the acknowledgement of my anger and expression of it.

 

[CzeCze]

I think a lot of people fear anger or rather the destructive capabilities of anger. And especially the social ramifications. If you grow up seeing people go nuts all the time or mix up/associate anger with hostility and negative outcomes, it will DEFINITELY create a bottleneck for you.

I think the most important step towards expressing anger and any emotion in healthy constructive ways is understanding again that anger itself is not wrong or destructive. Anger can fuel change and correction and reflection.

I think it's much easier for most people to say "I don't like this" or even "stop" when they have absolutely no emotional attachment or investment in something. When you're angry, suddenly you don't want to say what you have to say anymore. You get scared for the reasons mentioned above.

It's one thing to analyze things after the fact, but second-guessing yourself to the point you prevent yourself from expressing something is a problem. I firmly believe it holds you back from self-realization and also growth in relationships.

Especially because in many situations, timing of expression is very important. Sometimes it's fine to wait until a 'more appropriate time' to express why something made you mad, but sometimes it's put up or shut up. Speak now or forever hold your peace.

And I personally would much rather have been true to myself and said my peace and let the pieces fall where they may than sacrifice my own emotional health. Angry people die sooner. Seriously. Holding onto anger is not healthy. It's true that some people have serious anger issues and not being able to express anger is not the problem. But Toonia, you seem like an extremely contemplative and calm person so I don't think you're at risk for turning into one of those dish breaking hysterical crazy caricatures of 'angry women'.

For myself, I have taught myself to put up or shut up. If I don't speak my peace and have no intention to, I let it go.

And I forgive myself and give myself permission and make peace with the consequences BEFORE the fact to be me and say what I need to say how I want to say it.

Trust me, it's MUCH nicer to your central nervous system and sense of well-being.

 

[LadyJaye]

Toonia --

I'm beginning to wonder if anger is a particularly uncomfortable area for NFJs, esp the Is. There are several INFJs of my acquaintance who seem to gulp anger (out of a sense of guilt? loss of control?) until they get sick or explode. I do something similar, only I reach critical mass MUCH faster. My ignition point is reached more quickly, and I erupt.

I don't know about anyone else, but if I haven't been allowed to take all the time I require to process through a particular emotion (or thought), I can become VERY hostile. I hate it when people (even well-meaning ones) attempt to guilt/talk me out of a feeling I'm having. It makes me feel marginalized, further adding to the anger. My ENFP sister seems to be able to process her feelings more quickly, whereas I require a lot more time. I take this as a reflection of temperament, not "wallowing".

I think anger can be very constructive and shouldn't be feared when it is. Out of control plate-throwing is another animal altogether.

Perhaps we fear the ramifications of our anger because we've been conditioned to "play nice", even when we know that the instinct to give SoandSo a haymaker is the correct one. I agree that you need more time to process your feelings, especially when you're angry. (Since feeling is your primary function, it's probably like someone piddling directly in your Wheaties.) But strangely, I think I have more of a temper than you do.

 

[lbloom]

I don't seem to possess it. I suppose this is classic INTP territory.. often without a temper until really really pushed.. which perhaps I very rarely am. In any case, I don't seem to get angry or feel anything more than frustration. Just once in a while I suffer from unbidden shouting in my head.. like testosterone screaming at me, but I'm good at ignoring it.

I don't think I am in any kind of denial, because I have low anxiety and don't believe I have any issues to work out. *shrug*.

-Geoff

+1.

I've felt lots of stuff, but I can't recall real anger. I can get irritated and snap back to let other people know about increasing intrusion, but that's very different.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Lots of good stuff in this thread.

I've noticed a few things about anger.

1. It usually evolves from hurt.
2. If I don't acknowledge it, I feel even worse. I think the reason has less to do with acknowledging/expressing and more to do with feeling ashamed for being hurt, as if there's something wrong with me.
3. Letting anger exist is good, but expressing the pain that underlies it is even better. When you express that pain, you make it clear to yourself that it's okay to feel that way. I think the worst part of pain is feeling ashamed for having it. Releasing that shame is paramount.
4. I've found peace of mind in depression (which I get when I feel physically ill, around once or twice a year) by allowing myself to feel whatever I'm feeling, quietly and gently. It's actually been one of the best experiences I've had yet (and quite recently). I would imagine the same peace of mind can exist with anger or anxiety, by giving up on trying to change it and coming to the understanding that there's nothing to be ashamed of in the experience you're having.

 

[RDF]

One thing I'm noticing in the posts: People are using vague verbs (I "process" my anger, I "acknowledge" my anger, etc.) to describe what they do with their anger without really explaining what the process actually entails.

For example, I'm kind of a rage-aholic in private but cool, calm, and collected in public. I'm an ex-Marine, so it's no big deal at all for me to let go of 8 or 10 paint-blistering expletives in quick succession. But I don't want others to see that; I'm in a middle management position at work, and I'm the one who is supposed to keep my head when others are losing theirs. So I basically "claim" the anger by releasing a little blast of it in private or mentally; expressing it that way gives me a little emotional release valve and also serves as a way for me to measure my mood or "take my temperature"--I can see just how riled something has gotten me by seeing how much internal raging I do. Then, having gotten the immediate irritation out of my system, I calm down and move onto the next step and figure out how to do something constructive to resolve the situation.

Example: Let's say I'm already in a bit of a foul mood, I'm in a hurry to type up something, and I make a typo that loses me a few seconds. So I let out a couple choice expletives under my breath. But then if the release of irritation and expletives seem excessive or takes even longer than correcting the typos would have taken, I may then break into laughter at myself. Anger and laughter are never that far apart with me. The angrier I get, the quicker I am to release it, and the sooner I can realize how ridiculous I'm being and have a good laugh at myself. Then, with my mood shifted a bit, I can unwind and start thinking constructively or just realize that I need to chill out and not be in such a hurry if I'm letting petty things get to me to that extent.

So I'm quick to express, but also quick to get past it. The key is to watch when and how I "express"--it can be a little devastating if someone gets in the way and bears the brunt of it. Around others, I bite my tongue and either do the exercise mentally or put the anger on hold until I'm alone.

I rarely get depressed. Depression to me is a sign that I'm bottling up some anger. So if I start feeling defeated and depressed, I'll take a break, seclude myself, and rage at the walls and skies like some Shakespearian tragic hero. At some point, I'll figure out what's eating at me, and then I can think constructively and figure out where I want to go from there. Also, a good hard work-out at the gym helps.

So I figure a good expression of anger is healthy within limits. I get it out of my system and simultaneously "take my temperature"--see how much something's bugging me, see if my anger is appropriate to the cause or is way out of line with the cause (in which case maybe I need to parse what's actually bugging me, etc.), and so on.

My wife's the kind of person who denies her anger, bottles things up, and then gets irritable and obsessive. So I encourage her to get angry, rant a bit, and then seek the cause of the anger and/or try to figure out constructive ways to deal with the situation once she has properly gotten the measure of her irritation with the situation.

Again, I'm careful about letting others see how angry I am or about going into the kind of destructive rage that entails smashing things. If I'm getting to that point, that's a sign that it's time to just start laughing and give up for a bit--return to it later when I'm a little clearer. The only time I'll really let someone see how angry I'm getting is when I absolutely have to blow through someone's obstructive attitude and I want to tap into a little genuine anger and show them how important the issue is to me. But that can be a real balancing act--expressing anger without permanently burning bridges. In most cases, it's better to get the anger out and over with in private, and then figure out constructive solutions that I can bring to the other person in a cooperative mode or vein.

Also, I keep in mind that anger and humor aren't that far apart from each other. I watch myself a bit as I rage in private, partly to "take my temperature" and divine how much I'm really bugged by something, and partly so that I can spot that point where it's getting ridiculous and it's time to just stop and have a good laugh at myself. That's the best kind of anger--the anger that ends in laughter. It's a reminder that my anger isn't the center of the universe and that my outward actions needn't be guided by it. The anger passes, and I move on to humor and/or a constructive approach to addressing the problem.

[Edit:] I view anger as a transitional phase on the way to somewhere else. I may pass through that stage quickly (in mere seconds) or slowly, but it's never the end destination. There are always healthier, more constructive end destinations to seek after indulging a little anger.

 

[sassafrassquatch]

That's the best kind of anger--the anger that ends in laughter.

Agreed.
-

How do you process anger? How do you know when it is justified, or when it is indulgence?

If I'm angry it's justified by my being angry and I do indulge in it. I like being angry, it's invigorating.

When I'm angry I get a strong craving for violence. Since I cannot and will not do anything to anyone I usually do push-ups, sit-ups and squats until I can barely move then I crank up the metal and play Quake.

 

[RDF]

[Image]
Agreed.

Yep. Villains in horror and action films are often portrayed as having a lively (if sadistic) sense of humor.

Conversely, comedies often contain a lot of anger and violence: a pratfall, a frying pan to the head, a kick in the groin, an inventive underdog get his hilarious revenge on a sadistic boss, etc.

I think it helps put anger (and humor) in perspective. Anger isn't all bad. It's part of the human condition. Just be careful where you aim it. Remember that it's a blunt instrument, not a finely-tuned surgical tool.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

One thing I'm noticing in the posts: People are using vague verbs (I "process" my anger, I "acknowledge" my anger, etc.) to describe what they do with their anger without really explaining what the process actually entails.

So I basically "claim" the anger...

and also serves as a way for me to measure my mood or "take my temperature"...

The key is to watch when and how I "express"...

I get it out of my system and simultaneously "take my temperature"

Kind of ironic, no?

 

[RDF]

Kind of ironic, no?

Picky, picky.

The first line was a lead-in, not an accusation. It was just an explanation of why I thought I might take another tack and expand on the process. Not to say I wouldn't introduce my own jargon along the way.

If you can put it better, you're welcome to try...

 

[Zergling]

Anger for me tends to come out without me realizing it right away. When something starts to cause anger, I tend to annoyed early on for any part of my mind to notice the buildup. Usually it starts to come out pretty strong before I really notice that I'm angry (Since I'm so into the anger that no part of my mind steps back and looks at it.)

What's strange usually is how after going through a big anger release, the period afterwards is where I think of some solution to whatever the original frustration came from.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Picky, picky.

The first line was a lead-in, not an accusation. It was just an explanation of why I thought I might take another tack and expand on the process. Not to say I wouldn't introduce my own jargon along the way.

If you can put it better, you're welcome to try...

Heh. Well, like I said in my post, I don't really think that expressing the anger, which is simply acting it out in some form, is the key to being content. I think it has more to do with acknowledging and recognizing the underlying feelings of hurt by way of examining ones anger and the situations that proceeded it, as well as knowing your own personal issues and boundaries. Once you allow yourself to fully feel the underlying pain, without feeling ashamed for doing so, the anger and pain seem to subside dramatically.

 

[FemMecha]

Lots of good stuff in this thread.

I've noticed a few things about anger.

1. It usually evolves from hurt.
2. If I don't acknowledge it, I feel even worse. I think the reason has less to do with acknowledging/expressing and more to do with feeling ashamed for being hurt, as if there's something wrong with me.
3. Letting anger exist is good, but expressing the pain that underlies it is even better. When you express that pain, you make it clear to yourself that it's okay to feel that way. I think the worst part of pain is feeling ashamed for having it. Releasing that shame is paramount.
4. I've found peace of mind in depression (which I get when I feel physically ill, around once or twice a year) by allowing myself to feel whatever I'm feeling, quietly and gently. It's actually been one of the best experiences I've had yet (and quite recently). I would imagine the same peace of mind can exist with anger or anxiety, by giving up on trying to change it and coming to the understanding that there's nothing to be ashamed of in the experience you're having.

I think this is true for me. I do feel ashamed of hurt and anger and prefer to be strong and clear. Confusion is a second strong factor.

I also seem to go backwards through the process. In most of my experiences I tend to understand why the person hurt me first. I view it from too many vantage points and become lost. I'll experience the effects of the hurt but feel responsible to think and act clearly and from the big picture so much that I lose sight of the most personal aspect of the experience. I end up equally detached and connected to myself and the person who hurt me (if it is a close relationship). I also feel the hurt more easily than the anger, but prefer to experience the hurt alone. I get really lost in the hurt, but also kind of observe it. When something scarring happens I can construct several plausible scenarios in my mind as to the reasons for it and can't settle on any one as the "truth". Anger is a more directed emotion than hurt because it pinpoints the source of the hurt. I think that is partly why I can't feel it easily. My worst pain is like being in a house of mirrors all distorted in various ways. Trying to feel anger is like trying to find the way out. The perspective is too multidirectional to make sense of it.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Anger is a more directed emotion than hurt because it pinpoints the source of the hurt. I think that is partly why I can't feel it easily. My worst pain is like being in a house of mirrors all distorted in various ways. Trying to feel anger is like trying to find the way out. The perspective is too multidirectional to make sense of it.

Can you explain this part a little more? I don't understand why feeling anger is more difficult, considering you know the source.

 

[RDF]

[...] I think it has more to do with acknowledging and recognizing the underlying feelings of hurt [...]

[...] I also feel the hurt more easily than the anger, but prefer to experience the hurt alone. I get really lost in the hurt, but also kind of observe it. [...]

Hmmm. I hadn't really focused on the differentiation between the hurt and the anger before these two posts (although others probably brought up the differentiation as well).

I tend to blow through the "hurt" portion of it pretty quickly. Dwelling on the "hurt" starts making me feel like a victim, and I don't really want to spend time there. If I spend time dwelling on the hurt, then I get into more of a "revenge mode" where I want the response or compensation from the other person to be proportional to the hurt. But that seems counterproductive to me, because I'm probably not going to be able to convince the other party to value my hurt at the same cost as me.

Instead, I tend to use the anger to blow off steam, then I can be proactive and move onto the stage of coming up with some resolutions. The resolutions don't have to incorporate the hurt, per se. The resolutions just have to establish some way we can live together without irritating each other: Like setting up some rules or erecting some good boundaries and then building trust by seeing each other adhere to the rules or boundaries. A lot of times, conflict arises in the first place because the parties had different assumptions about where the boundary lines were located.

I think it comes from my time in the military: There were all kinds of routine little petty clashes, and there wasn't time to hold onto all the issues and sort them out. Better to get past the hurt and get on with working out some way to agree to disagree.

My wife is more about dwelling on the hurt, and she can go the opposite direction from me and get into a whole thing where she doesn't care about working out a modus vivendi and getting past the conflict; first she needs to extract a pound of flesh from the other person to assuage the hurt.

Sometimes I don't get where my wife is coming from; I just figure it takes two to tango, and each party was probably equally at fault in their own way (or from the other's perspective).

But that's just my quick response to this new (to me) issue. I'll have to think about it more, especially in the context of Toonia's post (given that she's the OP).

 

[RDF]

Can you explain this part a little more? I don't understand why feeling anger is more difficult, considering you know the source.

I'm second-guessing Toonia, of course. But in the previous sentence, she said:

When something scarring happens I can construct several plausible scenarios in my mind as to the reasons for it and can't settle on any one as the "truth".

So I read the subsequent sentences to mean, "In some particularly brutal instances of conflict, I can see multiple causes. Anger, on the other hand, is more focused, 'more directed,' and it can't really deal with vague, multiple sources of hurt. So I can't attach anger neatly to the various sources of hurt and use the anger to get past the hurt."

If that interpretation is right, then it's one more reason to move quickly past the hurt. As Toonia correctly points out, hurt can be vague and shifting and have multiple causes. It can also have tunnel vision and only see one side of the picture. In my mind those are all good reasons to get past the hurt quickly and not demand that the anger or the resolution be proportional to the hurt.

Pinning down the "hurt" properly can be a real nightmare and even turn into yet another argument and yet another source of more conflict: Who hurt whom more?

[Edit:] I prefer to just rage and howl at the moon as I please, let the anger find its own level without particularly relating it to the hurt or even consulting the hurt, and then move on past the anger and find some way to rejigger things so we don't continue to revisit the same conflict repeatedly.

 

[htb]

How do you process anger?

 

[Mempy]

I think, Toonia, that you are just too afraid of making mistakes. You seem to feel responsible for too much self-control and maturity, and I think that you don't support yourself unconditionally. Perhaps you worry that if you express your anger it will not be supported or understood, and may simply harm your relationships and drive people away from you.

I think it's not so much the anger that you must avoid as the lack of confidence and support for your own authentic responses and feelings. Even IF you are caught in an immature moment, as we so often are, it will help you to feel like someone is on your side even when you make mistakes.

I have a similar relationship to anger as FineLine, in one sense. Anger has carried me into several shameful, embarrassing, foot-in-mouth situations. But in those instances where I was /confident/ enough to unleash my unbridled anger on someone, without fear, I also had enough confidence to handle their subsequent negative reaction. On the other hand, when I am unsure if my anger is warranted, and when I fear a negative reaction, I end up regretting it in the end. In other words, when I plow through like a rutting bull, without second-guessing myself, and with the knowledge that I /will/ be on my side, and forgive myself, come hell or high water, expressing the hurt and the anger becomes a little easier - not effortless, but easier. I regret it much less, even if the response is totally bad.

I understand where you're coming from when you say that anger is like a house of mirrors that you can't find your way out of. There is no perfect answer, is there? You're hurt, you're angry, you're vulnerable. All you can do is forgive yourself for your vulnerability, agree to see yourself through to the other side, take a deep breath and take the plunge. Infantile though you may seem, negative as the reactions you may receive, vulnerable as you are, if you're understanding of yourself and agree to support yourself, you /will/ be all right, even if you ream someone out.

It's not the end of the world if you don't look like the most self-controlled and mature person ever, or if you hurt someone's feelings, let someone down, don't perform as well as you'd have liked, etc. You are just human, like the rest of us.

There's a saying I really like. "The curious paradox is that when I accept myself just as I am, then I can change."

 

[tovlo]

This topic brought back to my mind a post I made to a non-violent communication group I was part of earlier this fall. I was struggling at the time with overwhelming feelings of externally directed anger that were unfamiliar and uncomfortable to me. I felt ashamed of these feelings and my sense is that the internal tension of this shame escalated my emotional experience of the situation.

I think the most productive way for me to process anger is first of all accepting it as my state without judgement. I don't value most expressions born of anger as effective, but I now recognize feelings of anger are natural (and can even be productive at times), and I accept that. Even though I do not generally value anger expressions, I still experience that emotion. I recognize anger is a warning signal about something needing to be addressed. I try to accept my experience without judging it as bad or good, but rather assessing whether I find my engagement with the experience productive or not. I try to focus my attentions toward finding those ways of interacting with the experience that most closely reflect my values as well as honor my experience. Admittedly not always an easy task, but at least knowing the goal can help the process of searching out that solution.

Much of the process of releasing my internal experience of anger is an exercise of Ni, I think. It is important for me in those places of anger to gather as much information about the dynamics and motivations of those involved in the situation as I can. I do find I have to be careful to only take in the actual information given to me without judging it or rejecting it in favor of my own "guesses" regarding other's motivations. When I operate on my own often more dark and pessimistic assumptions about motivations, my anger is generally fed rather than released. When I purposefully choose to accept others expression as it is offered then I can more truly understand their experience, engage with them respectfully, and naturally find my sense of anger deflating.

Here are a couple of quotes from Legacy of Love by Arun Gandhi that might be relevant:

"If we were not so ashamed of anger, we could easily learn to channel it into positive action."

"We receive what we give. When we are disrespectful, suspicious,
insulting or violent we will be paid back in the same coin. If we
respect others as human beings, we rarely act rashly or irresponsibly
toward them, and so we rarely have to say, 'I am sorry'. With
thoughtfulness and respect for others in the presence of anger, we
can channel anger into goodness, and make choices that heal, rather
than aggravate, the divisions we encounter."