Qanon, conspiracy theories, and the Fairness Doctrine

[Jaguar]

They put toxic chemicals in industrial alcohols which were commonly converted into drinking alcohol.

You know, I'm going to go out on a limb and say Totenkindly would have seen what I was doing. And why.

 

[Virtual ghost]

What do we know about how Q actually started ?

 

[Jaguar]

How three conspiracy theorists took 'Q' and sparked Qanon

 

[Virtual ghost]

How three conspiracy theorists took 'Q' and sparked Qanon

Thanks.
I already read a few pieces about the topic but all the details of the story always seems to be somewhat different from one article to another. Since there is plenty of "supposedly" parts of the story.

 

[Jaguar]

Thanks.
I already read a few pieces about the topic but all the details of the story always seems to be somewhat different from one article to another. Since there is plenty of "supposedly" parts of the story.

Not really. A couple assholes got together to create a scam and a bunch of people fell for it.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Not really. A couple assholes got together to create a scam and a bunch of people fell for it.

Yeah but in that version there were some elements I am not sure that I saw in different versions. Although the bottom line seems to be identical.

 

[Burning Paradigm]

Yeah, I think OP hits the nail on the head. The big problem with conspiracy theories is that, by definition, they are unfalsifiable. It's why they use gaps in existing knowledge as proof there truly is an interconnected elite cabal of evil incarnates walking around the earth responsible for all of the problems in the world (personally, I just call them the Patriots and Yankees, but to each their own XD).

 

[Lark]

No I don't think it was created in a lab. Yes I think there was a great deal of negligence and cover up on the part of the Chinese government. I think everyone is familiar with just how far one can get with incompetence and authoritarian government. Just like in the US, do you really think there would be half a MILLION people dead here without incompetence and authoritarian government in power?

I do think malice and incompetence go hand in hand much of the time.

I think the discussions about the spread of lying and information breakdowns in any authoritarianism is spot on, its one of the things that the free market side in the calculation debate between cold warriors like Hayek and Lucas got right. I've seen it in a much more micro level too and its present in any society, any firm, of any size (part of the reason that I think the older capitalism vs. socialism arguments are all completely bunk, all of them that dont examine that angle carefully).

However, while there's a lot of things which happen by accident, there's plenty of people who will exploit accidents any way they can.

The so called "shock doctrine" of capitalism is based upon that, the takers rather than makers model of predatory capitalism is based on it, those trends have been around for a time before any pandemic.

That "vicious streak" in business, that "winner take all" idea, has its corollaries in other bad ideas which some quarters are working hard to revive, like social darwinism, malthusianism etc. and I definitely, definitely believe that accounts for the "too little, too late" model of conservatism.

There was that idea of a "window" some time ago, during which the far right thought people were warming to their ideas and a true picture of who they where, that is something more like unreconstructed nazis. I cant help but think that besides that there is another "window" in which, maybe for the same reasons, maybe not, when politicians, greedy elites, will seek to exploit crisis to do things they could in good conscience, or rather with public witness, do. Such as ramping up neglect, resulting in deaths, then behaving blameless in it all.

 

[Lark]

They put toxic chemicals in industrial alcohols which were commonly converted into drinking alcohol.

Depending who you talk to there's been a much wider poisoning involved in the widespread distribution of soft drinks and amount of additives and food treatments permitted by regulatory authorities.

Plus the consequences of the poisoning, ie diabetes, have been very successfully monetized with treatments which involve repeat sales to a dependent target audience.

Although there's no conspiracy per se in any of that, its business as usual, minimizing your costs and maximizing your returns, whatever that may mean for others does not matter. If it amounts to a sawing away at the branch you are sitting on, that does not matter either as its unlikely to worry anyone thinking in the short term of their single career/retirement.

It also follows a sort of vicious logic, loose your vices, exploit others vices, which is popular in the thinking of a lot of capitalists in the anglo-sphere. Or drug pushers on the street corner.

 

[ceecee]

I think the discussions about the spread of lying and information breakdowns in any authoritarianism is spot on, its one of the things that the free market side in the calculation debate between cold warriors like Hayek and Lucas got right. I've seen it in a much more micro level too and its present in any society, any firm, of any size (part of the reason that I think the older capitalism vs. socialism arguments are all completely bunk, all of them that dont examine that angle carefully).

However, while there's a lot of things which happen by accident, there's plenty of people who will exploit accidents any way they can.

The so called "shock doctrine" of capitalism is based upon that, the takers rather than makers model of predatory capitalism is based on it, those trends have been around for a time before any pandemic.

That "vicious streak" in business, that "winner take all" idea, has its corollaries in other bad ideas which some quarters are working hard to revive, like social darwinism, malthusianism etc. and I definitely, definitely believe that accounts for the "too little, too late" model of conservatism.

There was that idea of a "window" some time ago, during which the far right thought people were warming to their ideas and a true picture of who they where, that is something more like unreconstructed nazis. I cant help but think that besides that there is another "window" in which, maybe for the same reasons, maybe not, when politicians, greedy elites, will seek to exploit crisis to do things they could in good conscience, or rather with public witness, do. Such as ramping up neglect, resulting in deaths, then behaving blameless in it all.

All capitalism is predatory. It always has been.

 

[Lark]

All capitalism is predatory. It always has been.

I wouldnt argue that point, then again I'm not committed to the ideology or anything you know?

I do know that Smith et al thought of it as optimizing everyone's welfare, not from benevolence but self-interest, which is kind of different to the devil take the hindmost that's wall street's preferred way of acting.

 

[The Cat]

 

[The Cat]

 

[Tomb1]

Trump's insurrectionist followers are libertarian-fascists. Q'anon magnifies their essentials: hero-worship, hatred for the establishment and war on rationality.

 

[ceecee]

The documentary series about QAnon is on HBO now.

HBOs QAnon documentary 'Q: Into the Storm' searches for its origins but misses its meaning

I also agree that the doc doesn't get to the "why" of the matter either. Which makes me feel my own reason may more accurate - it's Blues Clues for conspiracy theorists. I don't think it's fair to just stick it between the two bookends of Charlottesville and 1/6 and dismiss it altogether as a fringe issue because it certainly is not.

 

[ceecee]

Just in case people don't remember this nasty assed family full of abusers and pedophiles...

The Arkansas state trooper who reportedly gave the young Josh Duggar a “very stern talk” once had a Yahoo profile in which he detailed his own sexual interest in children, according to a 2009 court document.

The Pulaski County, Arkansas, “risk assessment” document, which is publicly available online and was posted by Jezebel on Wednesday, detailed the criminal history of the former officer, Joe Hutchens, who is now serving a 56-year sentence on child porn charges.

Trooper Who Did Not Report Duggar Abuse Listed Preschools, Puberty As Online Interests | HuffPost

 

[Totenkindly]

Josh Duggar Hearing: Homeland Security Agent Details Timeline of Child Porn Case

pretty f*cked up
And unsurprising

That "not guilty" plea sounds like quite the stretch.

That software (and similar) is pretty popular in evangelical circles.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Another story about how the civilian insurrectionists are going to lean heavily on blaming the propaganda put forth by Trump and right media. I wonder what effect it will have for courts to consistently affirm it as propaganda per se.

Capitol Rioters’ ‘Trump Defense’ Comes Up Again And Again. Will It Make A Difference? | Talking Points Memo

The whole piece is worth the read, but an lulz highlight:

Watkins, the “Q Shaman” Jacob Chansley’s attorney, said his client had Asperger’s syndrome and indicated that Chansley’s mental state — and the impact of Trump’s “propaganda” efforts — would play a role in his case.

“A lot of these defendants — and I’m going to use this colloquial term, perhaps disrespectfully — but they’re all fucking short-bus people,” Watkins told TPM. “These are people with brain damage, they’re fucking retarded, they’re on the goddamn spectrum.”

“But they’re our brothers, our sisters, our neighbors, our coworkers — they’re part of our country. These aren’t bad people, they don’t have prior criminal history. Fuck, they were subjected to four-plus years of goddamn propaganda the likes of which the world has not seen since fucking Hitler.”

One particularly remorseful defendant, Anthony Antonio, was sick with a novel disease, “Foxitis,” when he entered the Capitol through a broken window on Jan. 6, his attorney Joe Hurley argued during an initial appearance earlier this month.

For months, stuck home due to the pandemic, he watched endless hours of the cable television station and eventually came to accept Trump’s bogus claims of a stolen election, Hurley told TPM.
​

 

[yeghor]

Another story about how the civilian insurrectionists are going to lean heavily on blaming the propaganda put forth by Trump and right media. I wonder what effect it will have for courts to consistently affirm it as propaganda per se.

Capitol Rioters’ ‘Trump Defense’ Comes Up Again And Again. Will It Make A Difference? | Talking Points Memo

The whole piece is worth the read, but an lulz highlight:

Watkins, the “Q Shaman” Jacob Chansley’s attorney, said his client had Asperger’s syndrome and indicated that Chansley’s mental state — and the impact of Trump’s “propaganda” efforts — would play a role in his case.

“A lot of these defendants — and I’m going to use this colloquial term, perhaps disrespectfully — but they’re all fucking short-bus people,” Watkins told TPM. “These are people with brain damage, they’re fucking retarded, they’re on the goddamn spectrum.”

“But they’re our brothers, our sisters, our neighbors, our coworkers — they’re part of our country. These aren’t bad people, they don’t have prior criminal history. Fuck, they were subjected to four-plus years of goddamn propaganda the likes of which the world has not seen since fucking Hitler.”

One particularly remorseful defendant, Anthony Antonio, was sick with a novel disease, “Foxitis,” when he entered the Capitol through a broken window on Jan. 6, his attorney Joe Hurley argued during an initial appearance earlier this month.

For months, stuck home due to the pandemic, he watched endless hours of the cable television station and eventually came to accept Trump’s bogus claims of a stolen election, Hurley told TPM.
​

What made them susceptible to jumping to conclusions without due diligence and to acting impulsively?

I do not think them not checking their facts before acting can be used as a mitigative circumstance.

If they are going to use brain damage as defense, then they should not have voting rights either as their judgment must be impaired.

 

[Coriolis]

Another story about how the civilian insurrectionists are going to lean heavily on blaming the propaganda put forth by Trump and right media. I wonder what effect it will have for courts to consistently affirm it as propaganda per se.

Capitol Rioters’ ‘Trump Defense’ Comes Up Again And Again. Will It Make A Difference? | Talking Points Memo

If a side effect of these trials is that the courts roundly recognize what Trump was spewing as false, that can only help in the long run.