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The "Cuties" Thread

The Cat

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Fear and anger are so profitable...The madder you get, the more buzz you generate. It's an audience draw. See, before people get all up in arms about the latest thing to distract from...say...a rampaging mishandled pandemic systematic rascism and police reform, and a current admisinistration that's fanning the flames as the entire west is burning....all that fear and anger, needs a lightning rod. And defending larval humans is an instinctual drive. It's an easy button to press. Like crocodilians humans are instinctualy violently defend their young. It is an easily exploitable weakness in the human brain even as it's an incredible strength in the human heart. Which is in an of itself an exploitable resource. Which is why emotional reactions are encouraged. Especially ones that might make one miss the intended point.


There's of course other sides to it. In Theory. It is at least in theory generating awareness of certain aspects of life... In theory the possibility for healthy debate exists...or even something of a greater understanding of cultural differences. In theory of course.

Regardless, I probably wont watch it. It looks like a drama. I don't care for dramas. Unless they're ancient Greek dramas. And even then. :dont:
 

ceecee

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‘It’s Out Of Control’: How QAnon Undermines Legitimate Anti-Trafficking Efforts | HuffPost

Since its origins on 4chan in late 2017, QAnon has burgeoned from an obscure online fringe group chasing grassroots donations and digital ad revenue into a powerful (and, at times, violent) movement that has infiltrated the political mainstream, scored a tacit endorsement from Trump and amassed an enormous following — both online and offline. Now, as it channels its outsize influence to spread false and alarmist trafficking-related conspiracy theories, a handful of anti-trafficking groups have publicly condemned it.

Polaris, which runs the national human trafficking hotline, warned in July that unsubstantiated claims “can spin out of control and mislead well-meaning people into doing more harm than good.” In August, after the century-old charity Save the Children issued a public statement to distance itself from QAnon’s leeched “Save Our Children” front, the nonprofit World Without Exploitation followed suit, casting QAnon promoters as “grifters with a hero complex.” Days later, KidSafe Foundation denounced them as “parasites” who threaten to “tarnish our reputations and harm our good works.

So anytime you hear someone mention pedophilia and 4chan not tolerating it, followed by their emotional vomit, think of what they're actually backing. Calling any of them well meaning people is a stretch because what the fuck are they doing on 4chan to begin with?
 

Red Herring

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I don't see it as an issue but I wouldn't let my little girl run around in public that way. CPS or the police getting called - it's really not worth it.

Someone would likely call CPS here if they saw it. You'd need to be behind a privacy fence and even then someone could be nosy.

I sensed something like that. A few weeks ago we went to the North Sea coast (Northern Germany) and had our 5 year old play in the water and sand in her underpants for a while and nobody batted an eye. I also remember running around stalk naked in the garden with my little sister even as friends of the family were over when I was very young (mid-1980s) and think Germany too has changed a bit since then. Asexual nakedness tends to be seen as potentially sexual in the eyes of preditors. However, toplessness still tends to be acceptable here in young children who are clearly still far away from puberty. Parents also tend to let their little boys pee in public half out of sight on playgrounds once in a while.
 

Lexicon

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[MENTION=5159]Lexicon[/MENTION] I do appreciate your feedback into the movie as well. I also appreciate you stating everyone has a right to their opinion on it... I am glad to hear the situations in the movie aren't as intense.

I’d like to think it goes without saying that everyone is entitled to their own opinion on such things, but since it’s such a charged topic, I think that can get lost easily in text— there’s no facial expression or tone to back that up.

I’d thought you had viewed the movie.

Paraphrased play by play of my viewing behind the spoiler tag for anyone who is curious about the events that take place. Pardon any typos— I was trying out text to speech due to the sheer length & my sleepiness. I’m not gonna proofread all that madness. I tried not to insert my own interpretations too much for this, but will share those things more later on.. after I’ve had coffee. Lots of coffee.

It’s long & no one is under any obligation to read it, but I figured it might give some context if you haven’t actually watched it/don’t plan to. If it’s still uncomfortable— that’s ok, too.

It’s dry as sawdust in terms of descriptors. I wasn’t trying to tell the story completely.


 

Red Herring

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I’d like to think it goes without saying that everyone is entitled to their own opinion on such things, but since it’s such a charged topic, I think that can get lost easily in text— there’s no facial expression or tone to back that up.

I’d thought you had viewed the movie.

Paraphrased play by play of my viewing behind the spoiler tag for anyone who is curious about the events that take place. Pardon any typos— I was trying out text to speech due to the sheer length & my sleepiness. I’m not gonna proofread all that madness. I tried not to insert my own interpretations too much for this, but will share those things more later on.. after I’ve had coffee. Lots of coffee.

It’s long & no one is under any obligation to read it, but I figured it might give some context if you haven’t actually watched it/don’t plan to. If it’s still uncomfortable— that’s ok, too.

It’s dry as sawdust in terms of descriptors. I wasn’t trying to tell the story completely.



Thank you for the time invested in that summary. I read it as well as the German and English Wiki article on the movie and saw the interview with the director. It really seems to be an autobiographically inspired arthouse film on a girl torn between two cultures, on a working class childhood in modern day Paris and on how girls have to choose between different preconfigured models of womenhood that society offers them. I saw nothing pornographic or ethically dubious about it, on the contrary, and I think the critics miss the point of the movie which depicts the problems and the oppressiveness of both toxic conservatism and toxic liberalism when it comes to creating a environment for children, especially girls, to grow up in. As a European I also think the main character's Sudanese migratory bckground is a major plotpoint that has somehow been mostly ignored here. It is a story about growing up torn between two toxic value systems as a young migrant in the hoods of Paris, that's essential to the story.

Also, I think it's kind of ironic when the depiction and criticism of the sexualization of pre-teens is criticized for sexualizing children by people who apparently sexualize these girls themselves because otherwise they would not be so uncomfortable with a relatively realistic depiction of what girls go through during that awkward transition age (also a reason I like the character Tina in Bob's Burgers - she might be unlikeable but is something you rarely see on tv, a realistic depiction of pre-teen to early teen girls in all their insecurity and awkwardness)
 

ceecee

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Billionaire T. Denny Sanford Was Under Investigation for Child Pornography — ProPublica

He hasn't worked in 21 months. But St. John judge accused of molesting teens is still getting paid | Courts | nola.com

There's a couple more for the pedo hunters to start screaming about. Except their politics don't fit the right/conservative narrative now does it? Because they know this is all they have left to claim that anyone will pay attention to (CHILD MOLESTER!!!). Soon that will also go the way of every other right wing claim that they care about - children. the elderly, the American way of life...all lies and posturing to try to win that all elusive culture war. Authoritarian wannabe autocratic rule isn't going make people to like you.

How Netflix's 'Cuties' Is Fueling Far-Right Obsession With Pedophelia - Rolling Stone

Accusing leftists of pedophilia has become the latest rhetorical cudgel among those on the far right. The tactic has its roots in conspiracy theorist circles, such as the QAnon community, which is centered on the belief that a shadowy cabal of prominent left-leaning celebrities, such as Tom Hanks and Chrissy Teigen, are involved in a child sex trafficking and baby-eating ring. As Rolling Stone has previously reported, QAnon has become increasingly mainstream in recent months, thanks to the explosive popularity of the #SaveTheChildren movement on Facebook and Instagram, as well as the success of a child trafficking conspiracy theory centered on the furniture brand Wayfair a few months prior. And much of the apoplectic discussion surrounding Cuties was, indeed, clearly driven by conspiracy theorists.

But the politicization of this discourse is not restricted to fringe circles. In May, Donald Trump, Jr. posted a photo of former Vice President Joe Biden with the caption, “See ya later, alligator,” next to a photo of an alligator responding, “In a while, pedophile.” The post garnered more than 181,000 likes; Trump, Jr. later attempted to claim that he was joking, yet also appeared to double down, tweeting, “If the media doesn’t want people mocking & making jokes about how creepy Joe is, then maybe he should stop the unwanted touching & keep his hands to himself.” (It goes without saying that Trump, Jr., in promoting the baseless claims about Biden, made little mention of the more than two dozen sexual misconduct allegations against his own father.)
 

Maou

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You're really gonna die on this hill? That calling out Pedophilia is somehow a right-wing talking point? Explain to me why calling out pedos is wrong in any way, shape, or form. You should be supporting them, even if they are attacking leftists. You do realize actual pedophiles claim to be LGBT, to infiltrate their communities and push the MAP sexual orientation using identity politics to normalize child predation as just another sexual orientation and can't help it (which is parallel to both gay and bi orientations)? Of course they are mostly Leftists, because Leftists unintentionally cater to their needs! Educate yourself of pedophilia in both the gay and transexual communities. If you ever watched anything besides CNN, or actually used any amount of social media. You'd know sbout it. Pedos aren't just creeps on park bench boogymans. The internet has given them more range and stalking capability without even leaving home.


Why defend this movie at ALL?
 

Lexicon

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It really seems to be an autobiographically inspired arthouse film on a girl torn between two cultures, on a working class childhood in modern day Paris and on how girls have to choose between different preconfigured models of womenhood that society offers them. I saw nothing pornographic or ethically dubious about it, on the contrary, and I think the critics miss the point of the movie which depicts the problems and the oppressiveness of both toxic conservatism and toxic liberalism when it comes to creating a environment for children, especially girls, to grow up in. As a European I also think the main character's Sudanese migratory bckground is a major plotpoint that has somehow been mostly ignored here. It is a story about growing up torn between two toxic value systems as a young migrant in the hoods of Paris, that's essential to the story.

Also, I think it's kind of ironic when the depiction and criticism of the sexualization of pre-teens is criticized for sexualizing children by people who apparently sexualize these girls themselves because otherwise they would not be so uncomfortable with a relatively realistic depiction of what girls go through during that awkward transition age (also a reason I like the character Tina in Bob's Burgers - she might be unlikeable but is something you rarely see on tv, a realistic depiction of pre-teen to early teen girls in all their insecurity and awkwardness)


Well said— especially at the highlighted.
 

Maou

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Well said— especially at the highlighted.

Yeah no, because that implies im both gay and a pedo. Jazzy is also a woman. It is not an "Art house film", and at best an extremly poorly executed activist movie, shot like a porno, and doesn't deliver its message well enough. Not to mention, they used actually 11 year olds for the film. Any other film studio would have used older girls to portray it. Also, explain to me what message you are sending, by actually sexualizing underaged girls? They could have implied it. Why was it shot in a provocative matter intentionally? They could have implied it. Ever watch a cheerleader movie? Those are less sexual than this. Cuties is shot like a porno. You guys are delluding yourself into thinking its okay.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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You're really gonna die on this hill? That calling out Pedophilia is somehow a right-wing talking point? Explain to me why calling out pedos is wrong in any way, shape, or form. You should be supporting them, even if they are attacking leftists. You do realize actual pedophiles claim to be LGBT, to infiltrate their communities and push the MAP sexual orientation using identity politics to normalize child predation as just another sexual orientation and can't help it (which is parallel to both gay and bi orientations)? Of course they are mostly Leftists, because Leftists unintentionally cater to their needs! Educate yourself of pedophilia in both the gay and transexual communities. If you ever watched anything besides CNN, or actually used any amount of social media. You'd know sbout it. Pedos aren't just creeps on park bench boogymans. The internet has given them more range and stalking capability without even leaving home.

You didn't really engage with anyone anybody else said and just accused them of defending pedophilia. I hate to break it to you, but you're using the same kind of tactics of SJWs circa 2014 or so. It wasn't endearing then, and it's not endearing now. The creaky Santorum-based talking points don't help, either.

I gotta say, I'm not a fan of this conspiracy of a cabal of international banker pedophiles.
 

Lexicon

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Yeah no, because that implies im both gay and a pedo. Jazzy is also a woman.


No, it doesn’t. That inference is yours.

It is not an "Art house film", and at best an extremly poorly executed activist movie, shot like a porno, and doesn't deliver its message well enough.

I respectfully disagree.


Not to mention, they used actually 11 year olds for the film. Any other film studio would have used older girls to portray it. Also, explain to me what message you are sending, by actually sexualizing underaged girls? They could have implied it.

They often did imply it. We clearly did not see the film the same way.

Why was it shot in a provocative matter intentionally? They could have implied it. Ever watch a cheerleader movie? Those are less sexual than this. Cuties is shot like a porno. You guys are delluding yourself into thinking its okay.

I’m under no delusion. I’ve seen plenty of pep rallies & dance recitals that came off far more overtly “sexual” than this film.

I’ve also viewed adult pornography, & none of it looked like this movie to me. :shrug:
 

Lexicon

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The Inadvertent Sexualization of Children and the Perils of the Internet – La Voce di New York

Today the overt sexualization of children is pervasive and impossible to escape. We need to take our parenting role seriously


The loudest aspect of Cuties was the pervasive silence between the parents & children. So many discussions about puberty & internet safety completely left unsaid, among other things. The ease of access children can have to wholly unfiltered internet is pretty terrifying.

My roommate’s kid will be 11 soon. She isn’t allowed a smartphone, nor is she permitted to access or have any sort of social media accounts. She is allowed to contact classmates through the school’s site email/messenger, & that’s it. She’s also allowed to write them actual letters. Her million year-old tablet device has all the parental controls activated, & also measures screen time, & locks after a certain period of time. She’s had many talks with her mom (and me, randomly) about puberty, strangers, & internet safety, etc.

There’s no way to completely protect kids from the weird, horrible shit in this world, but an effort to educate & introduce these things in a safe way can make a huge difference, imo.
 

Red Memories

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No, it doesn’t. That inference is yours.



I respectfully disagree.




They often did imply it. We clearly did not see the film the same way.



I’m under no delusion. I’ve seen plenty of pep rallies & dance recitals that came off far more overtly “sexual” than this film.

I’ve also viewed adult pornography, & none of it looked like this movie to me. :shrug:

I think the reason she took your comment as that is because the original statement suggests that in us defending these girls from being sexualized by an industry, we have somehow sexualized the girls.

It is quite a bold assumption to assume I view children sexually because I do not want to see them hypersexualized. I see where translation got lost here.

I think it's kind of ironic when the depiction and criticism of the sexualization of pre-teens is criticized for sexualizing children by people who apparently sexualize these girls themselves because otherwise they would not be so uncomfortable with a relatively realistic depiction of what girls go through during that awkward transition age

I'm against the general things which cause this movie to even have to be made: how the world equates maturity with sexualization. I grew up watching every disney star become hypersexual when they hit adulthood on the market and being told this is "maturity". We're bombarded with being told this is what guys want, this is growing up. ITS NOT. It shouldn't be told that way. People shouldn't be pressured into it. That is not me hypersexualizing girls. That is me being disgusted that when I was that age I faced that image of maturity. I am sad for one, a movie has to be made making these points because there are parents who blindly hand their kids devices and let them be raised by it without monitoring things. It HAS made it easier to pedophiles to reach children, especially when they can readily find the vulnerable ones they're looking for. I think the message is valuable. I'm not sure this really presents it in a proper way. I also agree that calling out pedophilia, child endangerment, etc. for any reason period should be a non-partisan issue. I would definitely hope whether you are republican or democrat, you care for the genuine welfare of children. It should NOT be a partisan issue and it makes me sad to see it even demonstrated as one in any way. I get it, QAnon is obsessed with pizzagate. That doesn't invalidate every complaint about a child's welfare. Perhaps I'm a little more sensitive to the depictions because I at one point was one of those confused girls online who's parents WEREN'T really watching her at the time who ended up on a very hypersexualized route, and I don't think you can close that movie with she goes and plays hopscotch and acts like everything's cool. If she really was affected with all the things which happened she will be facing trauma and issues for years to come with trust, relationships, body image, etc. so I guess in my eyes I found it to poorly conclude the issues at hand. I think they didn't need to show so much raunchy dancing to the highlighted levels they did. I am grateful to know none of the children's parts WERE actually shown, but I'd still feel far more comfortable with adult actresses because at 11 years old I can totally tell you. I got an acting role and they asked me to strip? hell I'd definitely do it. Would I logically do it now? No. But at 11 everything is so bright, you're so impressionable and trusting, it is easy to coerce a child to do something she may not actually feel comfortable doing. It does console me to know there was a child psychologist on set, but that doesn't mean the children will communicate or even understand at that time. I don't think I processed my trauma until over 2 years after I had been separated from him, and then it hit me so damn hard. Are they getting prolonged treatment? I still have a lot of problems, but that's merely because of my experience. Obviously everyone is going to view this issue differently, and it DOES NOT make me or [MENTION=37565]Dareyth[/MENTION] some conservative QAnon freak to care about the issue. It doesn't make us sexualizing children. It doesn't make us bad people to see it differently. I also know not everyone will see it the same and I have no issue with you not seeing the movie as severely as me and her are. But a lot of ridiculous things are being tossed about now about it. I agree some of these people have fake outrage for clicks. We shouldn't suddenly not care if they are 13 instead of 11. I agree with some of the opposition points, but the thing is, I'm not one of those. I agree twerking is merely a dance move but in the movie it was shown provocatively, filled with ass tapping and all. It was intended to be seen sexually. All young girls face and go through that bit of rebellion against the norm stage but the internet has highlighted the danger of not monitoring or interacting with your child enough on that level, there's TONS of horrible abusive people just waiting to find the prey. And they do find you. They're in the fandom pages, they're on support websites. They're looking for vulnerable people. Perhaps you don't believe the internet is a hot spot for these people but it is. I was a little grieving girl who believed it could NEVER happen, it was just tv stuff they sensationalize. And then I was one of them. And the MAPs greatly disturb me but it is also a nonpartisan issue. I see plenty of LGBT+ and far left people utterly DISGUSTED with these people trying to make their minor attraction a sexuality. There are left and right youtubers garnering attention to the issue and reminding people to make sure their children are safe. To get off twitter because if you speak against them you get banned for hate speech. There's not a lot of things I get gungho about artistically, especially if you're an adult. I can merely choose not to involve myself. However, this struck me because the sexual nature and the real child actors.
[MENTION=10251]Red Herring[/MENTION] also

and lastly maybe a piece here will also grasp some attention, this is a girl discussing BOTH coming of age sexual natured movies who has experience in the industry.

This note she made was good...that Cuties lost the message because there were few if any repercussions for their actions while a similar movie in thirteen showed the damages. Cuties did not really grasp that.
[MENTION=4050]ceecee[/MENTION] because some of this kind of references things you post as well.

I'll stop my ramble now. XD
 

Red Herring

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*bangs head against table*

Maybe the director was right and the movie really is more directed at a European audience.
Different values, different ways of looking at childhood, at sexuality, at corporeality, at how to raise kids, what innocence actually is, etc. No wonder even the laws vary so much from country to country. I sometimes struggle to understand the USA, where a teenager of 17 is called a child when they die or become the victim of a crime but children get prosecuted like adult criminals while still in elementary school, thrown in jail or even executed for crimes comitted while underage. Where beating children is legal but dancing is considered traumatizing.

I am absolutely baffled and speechless by some of the interpretations and statements here.:shock:


And, yes, I have two little children
 

Red Memories

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*bangs head against table*

Maybe the director was right and the movie really is more directed at a European audience.
Different values, different ways of looking at childhood, at sexuality, at corporeality, at how to raise kids, what innocence actually is, etc. No wonder even the laws vary so much from country to country. I sometimes struggle to understand the USA, where a teenager of 17 is called a child when they die or become the victim of a crime but children get prosecuted like adult criminals while still in elementary school, thrown in jail or even executed for crimes comitted while underage. Where beating children is legal but dancing is considered traumatizing.

I am absolutely baffled and speechless by some of the interpretations and statements here.:shock:


And, yes, I have two little children

There are some backwards things here you listed I wish something was done about (i.e. I wish people would more proactively report abuse because it is technically illegal. I don't know why you would assume it is in fact legal here to beat your child. Discipline and beating your child are veryyyy different things.) or how an underage child should not receive death penalties. But there are europeans who also dislike this film, so maybe particular parts of Europe do not and others do. Maybe it is a worldview, but I am suggesting why I see a problem with this film.
Thirteen, I can say at least, heavily shows more of the repercussions of this sort of damaging behavior and all. I think perhaps because it was even more indie than this film, perhaps it did not get lost in translation between editor to editor. I feel the message of Cuties just got lost between the lines and does not show enough of the negative psychological damage. You do not merely go back to normal after all of that.
 

The Cat

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*bangs head against table*

Maybe the director was right and the movie really is more directed at a European audience.
Different values, different ways of looking at childhood, at sexuality, at corporeality, at how to raise kids, what innocence actually is, etc. No wonder even the laws vary so much from country to country. I sometimes struggle to understand the USA, where a teenager of 17 is called a child when they die or become the victim of a crime but children get prosecuted like adult criminals while still in elementary school, thrown in jail or even executed for crimes comitted while underage. Where beating children is legal but dancing is considered traumatizing.

I am absolutely baffled and speechless by some of the interpretations and statements here.:shock:


And, yes, I have two little children

It's pretty insane when you look at it right? :mellow:
 

ceecee

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*bangs head against table*

Maybe the director was right and the movie really is more directed at a European audience.
Different values, different ways of looking at childhood, at sexuality, at corporeality, at how to raise kids, what innocence actually is, etc. No wonder even the laws vary so much from country to country. I sometimes struggle to understand the USA, where a teenager of 17 is called a child when they die or become the victim of a crime but children get prosecuted like adult criminals while still in elementary school, thrown in jail or even executed for crimes comitted while underage. Where beating children is legal but dancing is considered traumatizing.

I am absolutely baffled and speechless by some of the interpretations and statements here.:shock:


And, yes, I have two little children

Yes, it's completely nuts.
 

Totenkindly

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I'm only a little ways into "Cuties" but I think from looking at how Netflix advertised it -- a big reason is blew it up was because of their misguided ad campaign including the promo art/poster that accentuated the hypersexualization and even seemed to be supportive of it. Way to go, Netflix; was this just a near-sighted gaff by an overeager advertising director or a purposeful grenade meant to attract lots of publicity? After all, the film shouldn't have even been noticeable on Netflix but it has ranked #7 or so in views since it's been on the service now.

That poster was exactly all any of the hyper-right needed to immediately start another moralistic campaign against a film none of them actually watched, which has happened repeatedly any time someone needs a political soapbox to vent against the evils of society. In the process, it's clouding both a more reasoned discussion of the film (like we're trying to have here) as well as undermining actual attempts to deal with the issue of hypersexualization in kids and related problems.

and yeah, it was hinted at above but there are definitely different cultural views and philosophies -- this film wasn't really aimed at the US, so i'm not surprised at how things are getting lost in translation. I think it's ironic the initial attacks are typically coming from USA demographics that usually can't deign to watch a film with subtitles. Usually that's the kiss of death for films in the USA (we expect everything to be fed to us in English), although I think the 30 and under "global-oriented" crowd is much more willing to invest.
 
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