Random Politics Thread

[Mind Maverick]

Nationalism.

Great...yet one more reason I'm glad I'm going to Europe once enough is saved up.

 

[Coriolis]

I would honestly argue that this is relative to where exactly you are in society. As you well know, I've consistently held the belief that it is a two-way street and many black people are very racist as well. I know you believe in addressing one at a time being the best approach. I respect that, and perhaps you may be right, but I open-mindedly disagree, I guess you could say, for a number of reasons. Anyway, as for the quoted statement, thanks for the clarification. The angle I was coming from was simply that 'privileged' implies there's some sort of above-standard level benefit when there's not, it's just simply a normal, standard, basic human rights level of treatment. I've never disagreed with the fact that white people will, for the most part, have it easier in otherwise equal circumstances. I disagree with using the term that means "a special advantage, immunity, or right possessed by an individual or group" to describe something everyone should have. Standard isn't special, standard isn't advantaged - it's just simply how things ought to be for everyone. Most people are comparing two things: treatment of white people VS treatment of black people. In comparison to black people, yes, white people can seem privileged - but in comparison to how people should be treated, white people are not privileged. Everything is relative to comparisons. Make sense?

It all depends on what you consider your baseline. Is white treatment standard, and blacks are disadvantaged, or is black treatment standard, and whites are privileged? It is the disparity that is important. The rest is semantics.

 

[Red Herring]

Trump signs order to push ‘patriotic education’ on eve of election

What does he mean by "patriotic education" even? As someone who thinks US is too US-centric and needs to be educated in a more global way, I don't like the sounds of it.

I don't know about this order, but in Turkey, Russia, Hungary and Poland (and likely many other countries) the governments all passed laws and regulations forcing schools to teach a whitewashed, more flatterring version of history that glosses over the bad parts and glorifies the good ones. Controlling history books and what children are taught at school to boister patriotism and suffocate criticism is a popular move with certain forms of government.

In Poland they even made it illegal to say that they cooperated with the nazis. In Turkey you can get thrown in jail for saying bad things about the country or its history, even about sultans that have been dead for centuries. One company even got into legal trouble for saying their tea is better than the national drink ayran.

 

[Mind Maverick]

I don't know about this order, but in Turkey, Russia, Hungary and Poland (and likely many other countries) the governments all passed laws and regulations forcing schools to teach a whitewashed, more flatterring version of history that glosses over the bad parts and glorifies the good ones. Controlling history books and what children are taught at school to boister patriotism and suffocate criticism is a popular move with certain forms of government.

In Poland they even made it illegal to say that they cooperated with the nazis. In Turkey you can get thrown in jail for saying bad things about the country or its history, even about sultans that have been dead for centuries. One company even got into legal trouble for saying their tea is better than the national drink ayran.

Somehow that doesn't surprise me, especially about Russia.

 

[Red Memories]

[MENTION=27952]Merced[/MENTION] hey wanna have that discussion now.

First thanks for the video, it actually explains a LOT of the philosophy I did not understand.

I think you're on the right track with this line of thinking but here is my philosophy on that. Being colorblind is the same as saying you treat everyone like white people.

My race isn't the problem. Yes, it's a social construct, it has no biological pros or cons. But just because it's a social construct, that doesn't make it not real. My race is a part of who I am, it's my culture. We are different. We have different experiences and different backgrounds and our race has a lot to do with it. Ignoring that would be would be ignoring who we are. The problem isn't my race, but how people treat my race.

This is why I advocate for 'safe spaces' or minority only communities. The US has a keen goal to homogenize everything and everyone and that requires dialing back the best parts of my culture so that it's consumable for a wider audience. I don't want that. Individuality is very, very important and if what makes me me has to be closer to what makes you you, then it doesn't make anyone anyone.

This would then transition into a conversation about cultural appropriation and how it can be both a good and bad thing, but that's another rant for another day, lol.

I have wondered about the loss of culture and individuality which actually exists within the "melting pot" of America. I know personally I enjoy greatly learning about different cultures and ideologies. When I meet or see people from foreign places I want to know so much about their thoughts and lives. Often with many issues I wish I could genuinely ask a person from those places how they feel about it. I do not enjoy "gatekeeping" other people's thoughts on a matter which I think is some of the problem I see with BLM locally, I see mostly caucasians. XD I am not saying I dislike allyship, but I feel it is wrong of say, me a white woman to tell you as an african american woman how to feel about things happening to her life. That just feels icky. It gives me the vibe of us ruling over again and I dislike that. I do not want it to be like that at all. I want you to have the same opportunities and such that I have and the same chances I have.

I hate the idea that someone has to give up their culture to be within another culture. I think it would make us all better, stronger people to learn each other's cultures and traditions and understand each other instead of degrading and mocking what we do not understand. I realize this is somewhat different, but this is sort of an example with me of things...My grandfather is very very islamophobic. And he has attempted to raise us to see islamist as the enemy. I had an online friend who was actually islamic and I asked her questions about certain things of her faith, and found that a lot of what he said was actually wrong and horribly prejudice. I do believe that racism, and anything of that matter, sadly, is often raised. I remember seeing a nationalist group having a meeting on campus and their poster suggested immigrants were degenerate...well I have the freedom to rip the posters down and throw them in the trash where they belong. My favorite teacher was a Korean immigrant. Bleh. I don't think anyone should give up their culture to "homogenize". I feel that having minority only places and etc. is a bit different from trying to censor everything to appease everyone. I would hope you guys are allowed to have places you can unite and do your thing. You should indulge in your culture - it is yours. I am very interested in it though so I hope maybe sometime you'd totally share with me as your lame white girl friend who doesn't get it. But I realize to many, homogenize, sadly means you having to act more like me. I don't want you to be me. Be you stronger and louder and tell the others to fuck off.

I'm a bit conflicted about the culture appropriation thing. On one hand, I feel like it is just another form of cancel and outrage culture that I strongly dislike. Oftentimes you'll find people from the real nations of like Asia and etc. finding it very cool to see someone participating in a piece of their culture. But other times you find them upset. It is USUALLY because the person misuses and trivializes something sacred to their culture. I think using anything from another culture requires education on the meaning of that thing to the culture. If you aren't going to learn what that represents, don't touch it.

But this is a bit rambly. but you're welcome to reply. I'm glad we can have this discussion.

 

[The Cat]

 

[dunce]

I don't know about this order, but in Turkey, Russia, Hungary and Poland (and likely many other countries) the governments all passed laws and regulations forcing schools to teach a whitewashed, more flatterring version of history that glosses over the bad parts and glorifies the good ones. Controlling history books and what children are taught at school to boister patriotism and suffocate criticism is a popular move with certain forms of government. In Poland they even made it illegal to say that they cooperated with the nazis. In Turkey you can get thrown in jail for saying bad things about the country or its history, even about sultans that have been dead for centuries. One company even got into legal trouble for saying their tea is better than the national drink ayran.

Reminds me of when the socialists in the eastern block were bricking pregnant women of capitalist empathizers, ripping out their fetus and hanging it outside the village. They were given weapons by the Russians during the Cold War and decimating families of capitalists all the way down from Russia, across the Mediterranean in Greece and Italy.

 

[Lark]

Reminds me of when the socialists in the eastern block were bricking pregnant women of capitalist empathizers, ripping out their fetus and hanging it outside the village. They were given weapons by the Russians during the Cold War and decimating families of capitalists all the way down from Russia, across the Mediterranean in Greece and Italy.

Troll-tastic.

 

[dunce]

no. My grams was from a country torn apart by the Cold War. The communist socialists were ruthless. When the nazis were defeated they torched the nationalists. Fair enough they helped the nazis. But then they proceeded to use the same weapons and resources left behind by the nazis to slaughter gang rape the people who were capitalists. The capitalists were non violent and fled to America. It's not trolling it's history. You on the other hand are either ignorant or trolling yourself.

my grams cousin married a man who was a known free market business man. When she was pregnant they murdered her and ripped her fetus out. Her husband came home to find it hanging on the front gates of the village.

so my grams move to America to escape the violent and bloody communist and socialist revolt that tried to seize power after the nazi army withdrew.

 

[Mind Maverick]

It all depends on what you consider your baseline. Is white treatment standard, and blacks are disadvantaged, or is black treatment standard, and whites are privileged? It is the disparity that is important. The rest is semantics.

It's not about the baseline, there is no true baseline, that's just a comparison thing like you said. It's about what should be standard, like I said, which is just what is 'healthy,' which is identified by things like science, history, psychology/sociology (such as what results in negative or positive impact, trauma, etc.), economics, and other evidence-based things such as these. No, it's not semantics. It's the US using words in stupid ways, once again, because "white privilege" doesn't match the actual definition of "privilege." This was my entire point when I wrote my initial post, and this is what threw me off about the term "white privilege."

In other words, to say white people are privileged compared to the majority of black people, sure. To say white people are privileged in society, false. Using the term "privileged" makes it sound like white people have it easy or something when we don't.

 

[Mind Maverick]

The USA is so far from my own beliefs and views on a widespread level, like it's not just a matter of changing the American system for me. American society itself doesn't align with my own beliefs/views/things I support, and that's one reason I despise discussing American politics in particular, except maybe 1 on 1, among close friends who won't treat me like shit if they disagree. There is nothing I can do such as voting people out or in that would change anything for me, as society itself is pushing in directions I don't support when it actually does start to impact the messed up systems in place. There is 0 hope of me seeing the changes I want to see, but there are other countries who are already more synchronized with my views/beliefs, particularly some in Europe. In the USA if I even were to voice some of my views I'd be ganged up on in that typical "we're going to socially reform you, make you get on board with us" way that I'd never get on board with because I'm not a sheeple - when I change my mind it's because logical reasoning has led me to genuinely believe the alternative is better or more accurate, not because whatever I think isn't socially acceptable to think. Meanwhile, in Europe, many people are already supporting what I'm saying and have been for a while. Many people there see what I see, but not so much in the US. There is only a very small minority here.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

The USA is so far from my own beliefs and views on a widespread level, like it's not just a matter of changing the American system for me. American society itself doesn't align with my own beliefs/views/things I support, and that's one reason I despise discussing American politics in particular, except maybe 1 on 1, among close friends who won't treat me like shit if they disagree. There is nothing I can do such as voting people out or in that would change anything for me, as society itself is pushing in directions I don't support when it actually does start to impact the messed up systems in place. There is 0 hope of me seeing the changes I want to see, but there are other countries who are already more synchronized with my views/beliefs, particularly some in Europe. In the USA if I even were to voice some of my views I'd be ganged up on in that typical "we're going to socially reform you, make you get on board with us" way that I'd never get on board with because I'm not a sheeple - when I change my mind it's because logical reasoning has led me to genuinely believe the alternative is better or more accurate, not because whatever I think isn't socially acceptable to think. Meanwhile, in Europe, many people are already supporting what I'm saying and have been for a while. Many people there see what I see, but not so much in the US. There is only a very small minority here.

Have you considered a move to a different state that matches your values more closely? I was considering a move to Vermont or new Hampshire myself. Kind of hippy dippy, libertarian lefties, but less crazy and lower cost of living than California. Pacific NW also appeals to me, maybe Washington on Oregon. Vancouver sounds cool but I don't think Canada would have me.

 

[Burning Paradigm]

My parents went to vote in Harris County, Texas, on Friday, and there was some armed civilian patrol group with rifles and Confederate flags just hanging out. Nothing happened thankfully, but it very well could have. Ashamed it happened in my city, too. Scary situation. This is why I'm nervous despite the polls being up 9 points in Biden's favor. Attacks on mail-in ballots, attempts to throw out or invalidate legitimate votes, attempts to (often successfully) close polling sites in minority and likely Democratic-leaning areas. I remain cautiously optimistic because of youth and early voting records being smashed across many states, but we shall see.

May these efforts at voter intimidation and suppression be in vain.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I saw some bubbas in pickups with trump stickers hanging around my polling place. Fuck 'em.

 

[Merced]

My parents went to vote in Harris County, Texas, on Friday, and there was some armed civilian patrol group with rifles and Confederate flags just hanging out. Nothing happened thankfully, but it very well could have. Ashamed it happened in my city, too. Scary situation. This is why I'm nervous despite the polls being up 9 points in Biden's favor. Attacks on mail-in ballots, attempts to throw out or invalidate legitimate votes, attempts to (often successfully) close polling sites in minority and likely Democratic-leaning areas. I remain cautiously optimistic because of youth and early voting records being smashed across many states, but we shall see.

May these efforts at voter intimidation and suppression be in vain.

 

[The Cat]

Have you considered a move to a different state that matches your values more closely? I was considering a move to Vermont or new Hampshire myself. Kind of hippy dippy, libertarian lefties, but less crazy and lower cost of living than California. Pacific NW also appeals to me, maybe Washington on Oregon. Vancouver sounds cool but I don't think Canada would have me.

I'd be in the Pacific North West as we speak fire and all...if I could afford to live there...

 

[Mind Maverick]

Have you considered a move to a different state that matches your values more closely? I was considering a move to Vermont or new Hampshire myself. Kind of hippy dippy, libertarian lefties, but less crazy and lower cost of living than California. Pacific NW also appeals to me, maybe Washington on Oregon. Vancouver sounds cool but I don't think Canada would have me.

Nah. The US in general doesn't align. The system is broken in ways the people won't push to change it. I'm just flat out moving to Europe as soon as I get my ducks in a row. I've already been researching, planning, etc. it's only a matter of refining the plans more and then saving enough to go.

 

[Mind Maverick]

I'd be in the Pacific North West as we speak fire and all...if I could afford to live there...

That's just part of the way the system is broken. US politics come down to money, that's it. That's part of why the changes I want to see won't be implemented. Money, scams, and exploitation.

 

[ceecee]

Nah. The US in general doesn't align. The system is broken in ways the people won't push to change it. I'm just flat out moving to Europe as soon as I get my ducks in a row. I've already been researching, planning, etc. it's only a matter of refining the plans more and then saving enough to go.

My in-laws are never coming back from Finland (they moved back in 2017) and my sister in law is considering going too. Her son took a job in Ireland and I don't think he is planning on coming back either. his wife and kids love it. That's 7 people. I wonder how many others have left?

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

I appreciate in a way the people who are taking the "calm down, everybody be nice after the election" words. I get that it could help lessen some of the conflicts that are going to happen, but there is a way it feels very dismissive.

I have throughout this process made an effort to not unfriend people over politics and will wish some fairly hardcore people happy birthday and so forth. There is a way "be nice everyone" can feel patronizing when the situation is so serious.

If there was some way I could think of conveying a value of peace during this time I would, but I don't like the way any of the sayings have been presented so far.