The Dangerous Case Of Donald Trump

[Doctor Cringelord]

I don't think the disparity should be great as it is. But I wouldn't go as far to say a McDonalds employee should make the same as a white collar business person either. There's still got to be incentives and merit consideration. That said, McDonalds could definitely stand to pay better.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I'm a capitalist who believes in velocity of money. I believe there's such a thing as selfless capitalism.

For that reason, I think "low-skilled" jobs should pay much better than most do. Everyone would benefit. the precious economy the Republicans speak of would boom. At the same time, you need the pay at a level where the people in those jobs also have incentives to look for better work. But the pay shouldn't mean they have to live in poverty either. Especially considering a lot of developmently disabled people are stuck in those sort of jobs. It's one thing to pay a high school student those wages when they're just doing it for extra cash, another thing to pay struggling people, or people unable to work at higher skilled jobs those same low wages.

 

[Jaguar]

NFL 2019 Player Salaries | Pro-Football-Reference.com



How Much Do NFL and NBA Waterboys Make?


Close that pay gap! Save the Waterboys of America!

 

[Maou]

Those who claim to want 'merit-based' income are flat out lying.

Some 20-something, douchebag working at a starter company where he rolls into work around 9 or 10 am, sends a few E-mails, goes to lunch at some $100 dollar a plate restaurant steak and lobster restaurant to schmooz people even richer than himself, goes back to 'work' for about an hour where he sits at his desk doing nothing but talking up some product he doesn't even work on then clocks out around four thirty everyday is paid $250k a yr, plus the best health insurgence-including dental, gets 3 square meals a day-free., discounts at every gym and restaurant in town, free public transportation-which he doesn't use because since he has NO expenses he just bought whatever douchebag vehicle he wanted- but he doesn't have to worry about toll roads because of the little sticker on his car that work gave him. Three weeks paid vacation, unlimited health/mental health days, which go real well with his hotel travel discounts. And best of all, an extra $4k for every new, entitled, resource-consuming, squalling little brat he brings into the world.

You think this is fine.

But some poor slob busting their ass at two or three minimum wage jobs where they have no say in their schedule and often work overtime without pay, and you also think that is fine.

Society tells you the former is more valuable than the later, against all basic reasoning and you just go with it. Who's the real 'sheeple' My God, I never thought I'd use that word after age 15 again)

Admit that 'merit- based' just means 'me and mine' you think you DESERVE more money because you think YOU'RE good people. (Or "Alpha's" or whatever dumbass MRA wording you want to use.) meanwhile THEY, people you don't like-regardless of how hard they actually work-do not deserve anything simply because they are not on your side.

It is nothing more than the age-old concept of 'us v them' been around since the caveman days. Proof that as a species humans really have not evolved much at all. Rather, most haven't.

Its equally frustraiting to realize that society doesn't work like 2+2=4, society is more run on connections, charisma, and outwitting the competition than it is hard work and merit. But at the end of the day, its still a better system than the alternative. BECAUSE, hard work CAN pay off. Its not a guarentee, but its a possibility. There is the potential for upward movement. Which is actually what separates USA from a lot of countries where its impossible. Societies today are mostly oligarchies. In some countries, there is zero upward mobility. Which is why people come to USA to live the "American dream", even if it seems insignificant to the people there.

 

[Yuurei]

I don't think the disparity should be great as it is. But I wouldn't go as far to say a McDonalds employee should make the same as a white collar business person either. There's still got to be incentives and merit consideration. That said, McDonalds could definitely stand to pay better.

yeah, i agree with this.

My perspective is from someone who has lived in Seattle her whole life.

"Seattle WA- no, the STATE. Yes, there is WA state...no, we aren't 'still fightin them injuns" are things I got used to saying. No one new that our little ecological gem a state even existed yet we're far from 'po-dunk, or a hick town. We've never wanted for infrastructure or jobs.

All of a sudden e were noticed by tech giants and rich-or those who were no loner enough rich enough to stay-started flood in up here. The difference in pay ( between residents and those who moved here for tech work) was so enormous that so many life-long residents can't afford to live here any longer. But I'm sure you've hear that, it's basically the story of the entire West Coast.

I'd like to believe in 'selfless capitalism' I'm sure many have tired but are swallowed up the inevitable desire for profit. In the beginning it is about make a good, helpful product, but then more popular you get the more product you need to produce, the more retail space you need, the more employees you need, the more people the higher the chance that everyone will demand to be accommodated or treated differently for this, that and the other thing. Those people become liabilities and the next thing you know you're greatest concern is profit and not being sued.

I hope it isn't too much of a tangent, but I really do think that the ease and frequency with which people file frivolous lawsuits is why our own particular type of Capitalism seems so ineffective and toxic compared to other first world countries. I don't think many people understand the impact it has had.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

mods please disregard the thing I reported earlier. it was a misunderstanding [MENTION=30038]The Cat[/MENTION] [MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION] [MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION] [MENTION=35566]Luminous[/MENTION] can never remember all the mods' names

 

[Jaguar]

Gonna be honest, I don't have anything to say (Let alone prove or justify) to someone who just posted an entire thread comparing their common, well understood, accepted and accommodated social disorder to an actually debilitating or life-threatening disease and whining about how it's SOOO hard to live with. Hey, if you can't hack it you're going to get eaten right? ( Look! I don't coddle either!)

You mean autism spectrum disorder? Yeah, a neighbor's daughter who shakes on the floor while having a seizure is definitely suffering from just a 'social disorder.'

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I don't think the disparity should be great as it is. But I wouldn't go as far to say a McDonalds employee should make the same as a white collar business person either. There's still got to be incentives and merit consideration. That said, McDonalds could definitely stand to pay better.

This is how I feel. By the same token, I don't think people should be prevented from passing on money to their children, but I think things are out of whack the way they are now. Things are out of balance, and the longer this is ignored, the more extreme politicians you're going to get. Michael Bloomberg is really not the answer to the Trump when he just wants to reinforce all the things that allowed Trump to flourish in the first place. (Although, Bloomberg is likely to take away primary votes from Biden, so I'm glad he entered for that reason.)

My thinking is that things have been out of balance for way too long to the extent that it's necessary to have a strong opposite force to push things back in the right direction (as well as to be able to solve more serious problems). I'm willing to support things that I may not agree with 100% if I think it will help with that, especially since I know that if they succeed, there would be people fighting them tooth and nail like there were even for Obama's moderate proposals.

It's less for me about having a scarcity mindset and thinking that everyone who has a lot of money is by default a terrible person just for having a lot of money, and more due to the fact that I think that they're terrible people for trying to game the system when they already have way more than they need. After all, if it's not a pie, why are higher taxes on the wealthy so threatening to the wealthy? The prevalence of that mentality among the wealthy must mean that either it is, in fact, a pie, or that they're just kind of terrible people, in which case they hardly deserve the outsize influence that they currently get in society.

You mean autism spectrum disorder? Yeah, a neighbor's daughter who shakes on the floor while having a seizure is definitely suffering from just a 'social disorder.'

She confused him for another poster. Comes off here like you're trying to stir up shit among people who might only see the last page, which is a rather dishonest tactic.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

She confused him for another poster. Comes off here like you're trying to stir up shit among people who might only see the last page, which is a rather dishonest tactic.

I already worked it out with her. It was just a big misunderstanding on both our parts. I really didn't want it to cause any drama.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Its equally frustraiting to realize that society doesn't work like 2+2=4, society is more run on connections, charisma, and outwitting the competition than it is hard work and merit. But at the end of the day, its still a better system than the alternative. BECAUSE, hard work CAN pay off. Its not a guarentee, but its a possibility. There is the potential for upward movement. Which is actually what separates USA from a lot of countries where its impossible. Societies today are mostly oligarchies. In some countries, there is zero upward mobility. Which is why people come to USA to live the "American dream", even if it seems insignificant to the people there.

While on the other hand there are plenty of people that are coming to EU to find their future, even if EU is full of stuff you obviously want to avoid. You can have functional capitalism, social mobility, billionares and welfare state at the same time if you balance well, this isn't really "A or B" game. Compare your place with decent competitors which can be found around the world, not textbook 3rd world you can own at everything. Play in a league where you belong.


:suggestion:

I hope it isn't too much of a tangent, but I really do think that the ease and frequency with which people file frivolous lawsuits is why our own particular type of Capitalism seems so ineffective and toxic compared to other first world countries. I don't think many people understand the impact it has had.

From what I have seen you are probably correct, being constantly a step away from large lawsuits is surely bad for everyone's mental health. The American problem is probably that lawsuits have become an industry in certain sense and a system that justifies it's own expansion. Since people see it as a shortcut to becoming rich and they want to become rich because they have no concrete guarantees other than money. What turns money into a drug that can solve almost anything, however since it is a drug most are having numerous bad side-effects. Losing common sense in hopes to sue at any cost is obvious one.

 

[Jaguar]

Comes off here like you're trying to stir up shit among people who might only see the last page, which is a rather dishonest tactic.

I'll be sure to pass that on to my neighbor. Your post is disgusting. And since you have no sympathy for little kids suffering, don't ever post to me again. Period.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I already worked it out with her. It was just a big misunderstanding on both our parts. I really didn't want it to cause any drama.

Which makes me wonder about the motivations of another poster trying to stir up drama with it.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Which makes me wonder about the motivations of another poster trying to stir up drama with it.

I don't even know anymore. I think I need to steer clear of the politics threads.

 

[Jaguar]

Which makes me wonder about the motivations of another poster trying to stir up drama with it.

Well, that didn't work. Okay. Forget it, then. This forum has been a competition between many people trying to gain sympathy for their illnesses while minimizing the illnesses of others. It's sickening. And it's pathetic. The only drama being stirred up is by you and those who simply suck the oxygen out of the air with their constant attention-seeking, hateful rants.

 

[Red Herring]

These last few pages read like a whole lot of strawmen, projections and assumptions. Very few on the left want to abolish income inequality. They just think it is too high and should be mitigated to a certain degree. Studies show most people vastly underestimate the extent of this inequality. Selfmade millionaires are the exception rather than the rule. Most wealth is inherited. Wanting to pass on a legacy is understandable. The real question is if and to what extent considerablet inheritance should be taxed. Then there is the idea of a Tobin tax.
On the other hand few on the right want people to die in a ditch or endorse semifascist social darwinist views. Thankfully that is a rare extremist position and mostly an adolescent phenomenon. They are merely skeptical when they are asked to show solidarity with people they don't consider part of their group. And they tend to strongly dislike being forced or pressured to do something good rather than do it out of their own Initiative.


Anyway, Trump isn't a conservative by any reasonable standard. Conservatism is about preserving institutions and doublechecking before accepting social change. It is not about ruthlessly destroying valuable institutions, agreements and partnerships and shitting on the carpet.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I don't even know anymore. I think I need to steer clear of the politics threads.

Some people are just scared because their beliefs are being questioned. That's all.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

While the concern over frivolous lawsuits is legitimate, I do worry that tort reform might do more harm than good. Some lobbyists working for tort reform are doing it to make it harder for people to sue insurance companies and hospitals. The end result there means the little guy has less legal recourse when he or she gets screwed over by one of those behemoths and wants to take the appropriate action.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Anyway, Trump isn't a conservative by any reasonable standard. Conservatism is about preserving institutions and doublechecking before accepting social change. It is not about ruthlessly destroying valuable institutions, agreements and partnerships and shitting on the carpet.

He's a paleo with some neoliberal tendencies.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Well, that didn't work. Okay. Forget it, then. This forum has been a competition between many people trying to gain sympathy for their illnesses while minimizing the illnesses of others. It's sickening. And it's pathetic. The only drama being stirred up is by you and those who simply suck the oxygen out of the air with their constant attention-seeking, hateful rants.

This sort of attitude is why I almost didn't make that autism thread. I never wanted to compete with other people over illnesses, nor was it an intent to minimize others' problems, including the problems of neurotypical, ablebodied, ableminded people.

 

[Jaguar]

The real question is if and to what extent considerable inheritance should be taxed.

The exclusion, as of 2019, is 11.4 million per person. A couple can shield 22.8 million. This is in the USA. Above that they will pay 40% estate tax. But it didn't use to be that way as recently as 4 years ago. The exclusions were much lower, but the estate tax was still 40%.