Ni vs Ti

[Mind Maverick]

Introverted Intuition: Looks at consistency of ideas and thoughts with an internal framework. Trusts flashes from the unconscious, which may be hard for others to understand.
Introverted Thinking: Seeks internal consistency and logic of ideas. Trusts his or her internal framework, which may be difficult to explain to others.
https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti...amics/the-eight-function-attitudes.htm?bhcp=1

Why?

No seriously, any differences you guys want to add would be great. How are they distinguished? Please cite sources.

 

[Dashy CVII]

The functions are too easy to understand. That's because the first definition you wrote has nothing to do with Ni. Framework, consistency?

Imo I'm going to give you something that will always work better than these wall of text source descriptions you're asking for, it's us simply using the definitions of Introverted, Thinking, and Intuition to spot these functions in individuals; to always type accurately. Introversion is literally about something unrelated to the external moment, it goes inward to think and expand upon anything stored in the mind: it doesn't return back to the specific external circumstance; this opposite motion of response is Extraversion, the Extraverted orientation (Xe.) We also use all the functions, so ie. an INTP can use Ni even though it's not their main personality, Te is usually more in direct conflict with INTP's primary function. Next, Thinking is one of the Judgement processes, it organizes logically by either consciously or subconsciously building and referencing its logical program--So Ti is exactly as you put it, continuously developing a logical framework about the world and all its subdivisions that the user finds interest in. Intuition on the other hand, is a Perception process of intuition, aka seeing gut relations and imagery to things. Ni however, has nothing to do with the external circumstance like Ne does, Ni is the intuition of the mental world, so it attunes to meaning and deeper truths about thought itself: subjective perspectives and philosophies. It's a perception function, but not about reading and effecting externals (Ne.) The moment an INxJ gets intuitions about external situations, they're using Ne, which is rare for an INxJ.

It's best to understand Ni and Ti in the context of what an introverted function is. Here are a couple things I wrote on the functions that will help you out {1, 2, 3, I've written a lot already on this forum you can look at} but as I said, just understand the basic terms and you automatically grasp the functions:

Introverted
Extraverted
Intuition
Thinking​

For example, combine Introverted + Thinking. Not only can we understand a Ti primary as always someone introverted with the ordering T > N/S > F, but throughout building or compiling its judgement system, by retreating inward to reflect and "think" in the introverted sense unlike Te, it gradually develops an internal judgement framework about reality and its various facets experienced. Te for example, is something quite different; as an external response of rational behavior or programming, it's not much about ongoing thought-consistency or permanent organization, but about defining its judgement, logic, and behaviors by the moment and its rational assessment of its context. And so, Ti and Te really serve opposite purposes. Unlike Ti, it's much more about reacting to what's working together in the objective circumstance, as an analysis. It doesn't invest time thinking in mental maps of reality. An INTP uses Te, but with primary Ti building deep expansive frameworks, it's not really great at pulling out Te into situations themselves. It's an opposite valuing. This is how we understand Ni and Ne, Si and Se, Fi and Fe:

The reason we have type is that we can observe these unbalanced patterns in most individuals. INTPs think too deeply about firm organization and comprehension, that when it comes time to act, this depth of understanding fails to be quick and practical, and they resort to their trusted intuition of reading the situation to make base decisions. The opposite is with INTJs, they can think as deeply as they want about life patterns and philosophical truths, but when it comes time to act, these bigger internal perspectives don't quite fit such an overly-specific world; they resort to their trusted logical program of behavior and decision-making. The extraverted functions are what work, while the introverted functions are about processing what really may be true overall, true in the sense of perception or judgement. This "overall" comprehension of introverts isn't good at quickly gauging specific situations, Introverted functions aren't as good with variables. Xe is literally one's active personality as a response to externals. It's something we can quickly read in peoples' behavior and reactions. Xi can't be accessed for the moment itself because once its already determined it internalizes and processes expansively, it's "the relationship to mentality," that's its definition. Xe can then respond outward again, as the relationship to externals, but for ie. INTP it goes like Ti-Ne mostly, for INTJ it goes Ni-Te mostly.

I hope we can come to understand Ti and Ni as they really exist in people, not in long convoluted descriptions that miss the underlying point: To simply understand Ni, what you need to do is observe case studies of strong introverts with the clear N > T/F > S orientation. That will show you Ni primary. For Ti, you observe strong introverts with the clear T > S/N > F orientation. What you will find is these precise patterns, it's very straightforward.

 

[GavinElster]

There's a lot simpler way of thinking of this -- first just understand the basic idea of how intuition differs from T -- I think the basic difference is in T, there has to be actual logic. Intuition is more association-based -- the associations rarely are fully logical.

A way of understanding this is, say, the difference between the idea behind a computer program and the actual implementation. T is explicit. There's nothing hidden. N is about what's going on behind the scenes.

Some mistake T's explicitness for concreteness, but it's mistaken, because the logic may not be expressing anything remotely tangible.

N is fuzzier, basically.

 

[Mind Maverick]

That's because the first definition you wrote has nothing to do with Ni. Framework, consistency?

So you're calling the official Myers & Briggs Foundation incorrect?

 

[Jaguar]

So you're calling the official Myers & Briggs Foundation incorrect?

Nah, who would do such a thing?

 

[Mind Maverick]

Nah, who would do such a thing?

I wouldn't be surprised if you did

 

[Jaguar]

If you're interested, read:

Introverted Intuition (Ni)

 

[Norexan]

Jung's Introverted Initiatives i.e time keeper i.e shaman i.e mystic one

<- this thing is a very rare in humans
<- run life by inner fantasies
<- not deceive as they tend to appear.
<- harm by outside world LIKE LITERALLY.
-> any object can harm them included food they are eating!
-> everywhere is a potential death trap.
-> yet they are not scarring but deal with it!
-> slummy yet they have sense of aesthetics
-> CAUSED BY Irrationality of Ni.

 

[Turi]

It depends on the model you're looking at - all of the 'functions' differ.
What MBTI describes as "Ni" isn't very closely aligned with Jungs "Introverted Intuitive type" at all - the same issue plagues practically the entire community, there is no consistency.

It should be kept in mind, that the MBTI/CPP Inc/Myers Briggs Foundation is not an official source on anything pertaining to function-attitudes - how can they be, when they do not actually test for functions in attitudes in with the MBTI?

You need to specify the (non-MBTI-because-they-only-test-for-dichotomy) model you're referring to.


Insofar as the descriptors you have copied and pasted - the two appear only to be distinguished from one another as Ni is outlined as a perceiving function, ie a form of perceiving intangible information (flashes from the unconscious - this is mental imagery) - and Ti is outlined as trusting ones own internal framework - this will be the result of making subjective sense of things over time - so it's essentially a reference to ones own subjective logic.

The difference then, is that Ni is noted as perceiving information, and Ti is noted as essentially ones own inner system of "what makes sense" - so, Ni then is perceiving information, and Ti is then judging/making decisions.


I hope this helps - these descriptors vary from source to source, consistency is very much lacking within the typology community - so again, it depends on the model, and the above Ni vs Ti is in reference to, and solely to, the information you provided in the first post. I am not comparing that Ni or Ti to other peoples variations on Ni and Ti.

 

[Dashy CVII]

So you're calling the official Myers & Briggs Foundation incorrect?

Well we're talking about the functions as they exist in humans, not MBTI types. The two aren't compromisible, for it's incorrect of them to define Ti in P terms and Ni in J terms: the terms are Introverted Thinking and Introverted Intuition, and the link posted by Jaguar for instance makes sense as "Intuition of Judgers" but not Introverted Intuition, as every Introvert is a primary thinker in the traditional sense and every Extravert is a primary responder, a context-responder. In MBTI's stereotype, a J type implies there's not room to think, so Ni isn't dominantly speculative/thinking but has internal vacancy and lack of thinking, while Te is supposed to be a "Thinking function..." This doesn't coincide with reality whatsoever. It's why MBTI's Ne description sounds more like a clear Thinking function, while Te sounds like a responding function that has little to do with "Thinking." MBTI screwed up on understanding how the common functions are actually manifest in humans, as MBTI devised functions as an afterthought after creating their own dichotomies, ie. Te primary = ExTJ, instead of the correct: Te primary = E/T > N/S > F.

In reality, external response to stimuli is about the extroverted functions, aka the "Object," and Te is a true Thinking function, it uses primarily its own reasoning and originality. It's not internally-based comprehensively like Ti: it's object-based, situational, it responds by taking cues within context and other people, and then uses its own reasoning and gauging program. You can read Socionics on this too, most INTJs and ENTJs relate to Socionics Te, but not sure about some of these "MBTI Te" descriptions that have little to do with Thinking. It's not the real Extraverted Thinking. Extraversion however isn't about the social sphere or others, this is what I know from most typological research like that from Jung and Socionics. Extraversion is about Object focus: the external circumstance itself. You can do the research yourself: find out who is actually ordered I/N > T/F > S (INTJ) and who is ordered I/T > N/S > F (INTP), then start documenting their cognitive styles and correlations, then you'll have the real Ni and Ti manifested. Btw for you I posted what they are above (and in my links), but you can do the research too.

It also makes me wonder why so many people get stuck between if they're INTP or INFP if MBTI had "figured out" the functions. People who type these ime are a vast majority of Ni primaries, as most Ns are P, most Ni primaries are contemplative/P-ish. I know a lot of people who are Ni dominant / Se inferior and these links aren't what commonplace Ni is about in humans. Ni is "the internal orientation to intuition," and you can read the long spelled out descriptions of it if you'd like, here's a good one, and here's mine, but it's better to simply know the definition of Ni at its essence: Introverted Intuition. If people relate to Extraverted Intuition (the intuition of externals, the intuition reading the circumstance) then they should seriously consider typing as extravert, ie. non-social, oriented to their surroundings. Ni isn't about externals, it's speculative intuition in expansive thought, it's not a Judgement forming system, it's about free perception of imagery, internal ideas, considerations and meanings. It doesn't attach to a situation (E,) and it's not attached to real beliefs (T/F). I think the first link is correct ime, it says most people just know what their primary function is. I've had really good luck typing people via the real functions.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Ni - Organizing patterns
Ne - Gathering patterns

Ti - Organizing reasons (logic as opposed to likes)
Te - Gathering reasons (logic as opposed to likes, influenced by outside)

Fi - Organizing likes
Fe - Gathering likes (influenced by outside)

Si - Organizing sensory/data
Se - Gathering sensory/data

Introverted functions are subjective and organized.
Extroverted functions are objective and more... interactive? Ti and Fi = identity

One day I'll be able to explain this better.

 

[Non_xsense]

Ti is alot more accurate , abstract, logic ,ect . Ni is faster to create symbolical meanings.

Intj and intp have high Ti/Te and Ni/Ne , at least using mbti test they can reach almost the same conclusion.

 

[Dashy CVII]

Also to add to what I've said, this is how I see the types manifest without a doubt, according to the cognitive functions and MBTI test preferences.

F isn't about 'values' due to (a) not being what the MBTI test says, it says F are people-feelers, and (b) every type puts 'values,' 'likes' or 'interests' before anything else. It's not a function, it's the default human state. F in the MBTI is about people-feeling, ethics and empathy, etc, read the test.

 

[Jaguar]

F isn't about 'values' due to (a) it's not what the MBTI test says

Extraverted Feeling: Seeks harmony with and between people in the outside world. Interpersonal and cultural values are important.


Introverted Feeling: Seeks harmony of action and thoughts with personal values. May not always articulate those values.



https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti...ype-dynamics/the-eight-function-attitudes.htm

 

[Dashy CVII]

That's not truly accurate MBTI: According to the MBTI test, all F is about harmony with people and ethical values. Look below. Everybody puts their personal values first, this is where they didn't compromise the cognitive functions with the MBTI test.

https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/thinking-or-feeling.htm

Feeling (F)
I believe I can make the best decisions by weighing what people care about and the points-of-view of persons involved in a situation. I am concerned with values and what is the best for the people involved. I like to do whatever will establish or maintain harmony. In my relationships, I appear caring, warm, and tactful.

The following statements generally apply to me:

I have a people or communications orientation.
I am concerned with harmony and nervous when it is missing.
I look for what is important to others and express concern for others.
I make decisions with my heart and want to be compassionate.
I believe being tactful is more important than telling the "cold" truth.
Sometimes I miss seeing or communicating the "hard truth" of situations.
I am sometimes experienced by others as too idealistic, mushy, or indirect.

Fi is ethical values, empathy and people concern. The MBTI fits in precise correlation on this to my experience with IxFPs and mistyped IxFJs.

 

[Jaguar]

That's not truly accurate MBTI.

Of course not. It doesn't fit in with your narrative.

 

[Dashy CVII]

(a) You've taken the MBTI and (b) I imagine you read the official Feeling definition I linked, so you're arguing to the wind here. MBTI's side-theory of cognitive functions doesn't correlate to the MBTI itself. Lots of people have admitted to it and I've also done enough testing with people. Feeling is about people-feeling, empathetic orientation.

 

[Jaguar]

you're arguing to the wind here.

I'm not arguing to much of anything. If you can't see I linked to the same site you did, see an optometrist.

 

[Dashy CVII]

This isn't going well for you so far. I think I'll administer you the eyesight test.

Count how many times the MBTI tests for "values" and "interests", then count how many times it says "people" "relate to people's feelings" "sensitive to others' concerns" "care for others" "cooperative" "how my actions effect other people" "I'd rather be kind than smart."
Free Personality Test

_________


[spoiler=Answer key]Values/Interests - 0 times[/spoiler]

Will give you another chance to read with your magnifying glass https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/thinking-or-feeling.htm

 

[Jaguar]

This isn't going well for you so far.

Funny.