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ENFPs are ALWAYS POSITIVE?!

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Why does everyone think that ENFPs are just bubbly and optimistic? This stereotype is getting really annoying now. Having lead Ne and creative (auxiliary) doesn't automatically make you a positive person in MBTI (at least). Now in Socionics (a different system), you can argue that makes you positivist in the Delta Quadra, and occasionally ENFP in MBTI will also end up as ESE (ESFj, another positivist typing from the Alpha Quadra) in Socionics.

But Socionics is not MBTI, so discounting Socionics, how do all ENFP (in MBTI) end up being called 'positive, bubbly' or displaying such traits? Is it because of:

A) Stereotypes equated to them (so no one actually sees past them, and into the negative view of their psyche).
B) The number of people who self-type as ENFPs are actually another Fe-based type, thus lending to the view that 'ENFP= positive'.
C) Individual personalities of people who happen to be ENFP?

Going by MBTI functional usage alone, nothing strikes me as making a positive alone, from a functional POV.

At its very core, according to the MBTI website, Ne is defined as:
Extraverted Intuition: Sees possibilities in the external world. Trusts flashes from the unconscious, which can then be shared with others.

Fi is also defined as:
Introverted Feeling: Seeks harmony of action and thoughts with personal values. May not always articulate those values.

So, why do you think that is? Is it one of these options, or is it a selection of them or something else?
 

Indigo Rodent

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Why does everyone think that ENFPs are just bubbly and optimistic? This stereotype is getting really annoying now. Having lead Ne and creative (auxiliary) doesn't automatically make you a positive person in MBTI (at least). Now in Socionics (a different system), you can argue that makes you positivist in the Delta Quadra, and occasionally ENFP in MBTI will also end up as ESE (ESFj, another positivist typing from the Alpha Quadra) in Socionics.

But Socionics is not MBTI, so discounting Socionics, how do all ENFP (in MBTI) end up being called 'positive, bubbly' or displaying such traits? Is it because of:

A) Stereotypes equated to them (so no one actually sees past them, and into the negative view of their psyche).
B) The number of people who self-type as ENFPs are actually another Fe-based type, thus lending to the view that 'ENFP= positive'.
C) Individual personalities of people who happen to be ENFP?

Going by MBTI functional usage alone, nothing strikes me as making a positive alone, from a functional POV.

At its very core, according to the MBTI website, Ne is defined as:


Fi is also defined as:


So, why do you think that is? Is it one of these options, or is it a selection of them or something else?
B - usually ENTPs.

Also, dominant Ne gives tendency to delusional magical thinking like for example believing in The Secret. This may contribute to the stereotype in case of actual ENFPs.
 
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B - usually ENTPs.

Also, dominant Ne gives tendency to delusional magical thinking like for example believing in The Secret. This may contribute to the stereotype in case of actual ENFPs.
Yeah, I thought Ni was more in the realm of magical thinking, but again that is the stereotypes clouding our overall understanding of the functions, and what they can and can't do within the system. But I guess in a way, I can see how both types could fall into that realm in different ways (e.g. the 'magical thinking possibilities' of Ne, or 'this IS the way, this mystical path will lead me to enlightenment' of Ni.

After all, they're both formed in the mind, intuitively and don't rely on concrete reality, facts or logic like Se and even Te users do.

But that still doesn't explain the optimist stereotype alone, and why ENFPs get it over ENTPs. Is it a gender-based thing too?
 

Lady_X

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We are literally the advocate or the champion because we naturally get pumped up and excited about potential and all the amazing ways that can be played out (ne) idea generators. We have strong empathy for an individual's personal plight (fi) we are naturally non-judgy (filtering out the negative by empathizing with it's realness) and focusing on the positive potential.

yes---this is going on--its true and real and authentic and you are human and it's okay because you also have this and that amazing super power that means you can go onto to do all of these wonderful things using your own unique gifts.

champion mindset. we see into people in this way and spotlight the beauty to lift them up.

this spills out into the world in various way and situations...which in turn gives one a positive, upbeat outlook.

also--many of us are 7's.

obviously many of us can have situations that make us sad but only a trusted few will ever see it. we don't love being vulnerable. we don't like to be emotionally taken care of. (except possibly by your SO)

it feel like a burden to affect others moods in a negative way...i don't want to lay my bad mood in your lap. i'll take care of it and not burden anyone with it.
 

Abcdenfp

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I have always said that i can see the beauty in others even if they cant, I can sniff out what's amazing.

My cautionary tale is that I can make people feel too good about themselves and then they depend on me for uplifting.

I also try to see people from a more rounded perspective especially SO's i think far too many times i have worn rose colored glasses.

We are literally the advocate or the champion because we naturally get pumped up and excited about potential and all the amazing ways that can be played out (ne) idea generators. We have strong empathy for an individual's personal plight (fi) we are naturally non-judgy (filtering out the negative by empathizing with it's realness) and focusing on the positive potential.

yes---this is going on--its true and real and authentic and you are human and it's okay because you also have this and that amazing super power that means you can go onto to do all of these wonderful things using your own unique gifts.

champion mindset. we see into people in this way and spotlight the beauty to lift them up.

this spills out into the world in various way and situations...which in turn gives one a positive, upbeat outlook.

also--many of us are 7's.

obviously many of us can have situations that make us sad but only a trusted few will ever see it. we don't love being vulnerable. we don't like to be emotionally taken care of. (except possibly by your SO)

it feel like a burden to affect others moods in a negative way...i don't want to lay my bad mood in your lap. i'll take care of it and not burden anyone with it.
 

Oaky

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ENFPs are often inspired which is a state that enjoys the fusion of feeling and creativity brought about by Ne and Fi. Often confused with positivity or whimsicality. ENFPs can also very much be unbearably negative.

Anyway, just people stereotyping which is unfortunately a battle that's very seldom won. Like you know, ESTJs are all squares and such.
 
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I've never known this to be true. More often seems the case with some ESFJs and ESFPs though. I think what ABCENFP said is closer. They are good at giving advice and building others up, but they will often do this even when their own mood is sitting near the bottom of the marianas trench. The people being uplifted or helped tend to be so absorbed in the positve feels they're experiencing as a result of the ENFP's championing that they likely miss subtle cues that all may not be as well as it seems for the ENFP. They seem similar to INFJs in that regard. Both will sacrifice their own happiness or suffer in silence whilst projecting a bubbly outward persona to the world and helping build other people up. I'm married to an INFJ and my older sister is an ENFP, so I have seen the darker side a lot and I am also generally good at reading when people aren't as happy as they may initially seem. These two types are especially prone to giving more than they ever receive and sometimes overextend themselves in their generosity and helpfulness. If you have an ENFP or an INFJ in your life, just be aware that they are likely fighting their own hard battles but have simply decided to keep this from you out of a sense of selflessness. Return the favor and build them up with a compliment or a thanks every once in a while.
 
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Abcdenfp

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I've never known this to be true. More often seems the case with some ESFJs and ESFPs though. I think what ABCENFP said is closer. They are good at giving advice and building others up, but they will often do this even when their own mood is sitting near the bottom of the marianas trench. The people being uplifted or helped tend to be so absorbed in the positve feels they're experiencing as a result of the ENFP's championing that they likely miss subtle cues that all may not be as well as it seems for the ENFP. They seem similar to INFJs in that regard. Both will sacrifice their own happiness or suffer in silence whilst projecting a bubbly outward persona to the world and helping build other people up. I'm married to an INFJ and my older sister is an ENFP, so I have seen the darker side a lot and I am also generally good at reading when people aren't as happy as they may initially seem. These two types are especially prone to giving more than they ever receive and sometimes overextend themselves in their generosity and helpfulness. If you have an ENFP or an INFJ in your life, just be aware that they are likely fighting their own hard battles but have simply decided to keep this from you out of a sense of selflessness. Return the favor and build them up with a compliment or a thanks every once in a while.

^^ So well put, thank you for making me feel seen. I also find that as I create boundaries and reserve some of that energy for myself people become increasingly agitated. its like the expect it all the time from us which can drain us from our own endeavors, as i continue to become increasingly creative I tend to have to isolate and reserve my energies for myself but people can become resentful of this . I remember distinctly when i was in high school i was going through a hard time and someone in an older grade came up to me and said you don't smile anymore, your smile makes me feel happy and now that you don't smile i don't feel like there is hope, and for some reason i really took that on and so this "bubbly persona" felt like a trap as well.
 

Lady Lunacik

ESI-Se ♥ EVFL ♥ ISFP
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Positivist =/= happy/bubbly. Just means you notice/focus on the positive over the negative. Positivist/negativist is literally just the equivalent of "glass is half empty/half full." Negativist will point out what's missing/needed (thus making them good at being improvement oriented), positivist will point out what's present/good. Doesn't mean you're going to be happy and energetic all of the time.
 

Lady Lunacik

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Humans are, in general, simple-minded creatures. Really not that bright, but still capable of more than they achieve. When it comes to understanding others, most humans want the easy route, the shortcut, the quick/easy/simple answer. They don't want to apply themselves to genuinely wrap their minds around complex nuances. That results in making assumptions, jumping to conclusions, stereotyping, and all kinds of (chosen) stupidity. I say "stupidity" because it is chosen despite having more capability. To me, that is the definition of stupidity: being capable of more, but refusing to learn by choice. It's easier to just toss everyone into boxes than it is to pursue being an active listener. Most people are sheeple who prefer the familiar/what's similar to them. They don't want to understand those who are outside of the box, those who are different. They want to make a box and shove everyone into it. When it's not typology, it's always some other category. Aristocracy ties in as well.

So, then you get...
 
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We are literally the advocate or the champion because we naturally get pumped up and excited about potential and all the amazing ways that can be played out (ne) idea generators. We have strong empathy for an individual's personal plight (fi) we are naturally non-judgy (filtering out the negative by empathizing with it's realness) and focusing on the positive potential.

yes---this is going on--its true and real and authentic and you are human and it's okay because you also have this and that amazing super power that means you can go onto to do all of these wonderful things using your own unique gifts.

champion mindset. we see into people in this way and spotlight the beauty to lift them up.

this spills out into the world in various way and situations...which in turn gives one a positive, upbeat outlook.

also--many of us are 7's.

obviously many of us can have situations that make us sad but only a trusted few will ever see it. we don't love being vulnerable. we don't like to be emotionally taken care of. (except possibly by your SO)

it feel like a burden to affect others moods in a negative way...i don't want to lay my bad mood in your lap. i'll take care of it and not burden anyone with it.

see my answer to abcdenfp, I have pretty much the same thoughts since your answers are similar and I answered them first. lol.


I have always said that i can see the beauty in others even if they cant, I can sniff out what's amazing.

My cautionary tale is that I can make people feel too good about themselves and then they depend on me for uplifting.

I also try to see people from a more rounded perspective especially SO's i think far too many times i have worn rose colored glasses.

But why do you care so much about other people? Logically speaking, are you lacking something in yourself? Looking recognition? Why are you so idealistic?

ENFPs are often inspired which is a state that enjoys the fusion of feeling and creativity brought about by Ne and Fi. Often confused with positivity or whimsicality. ENFPs can also very much be unbearably negative.

Anyway, just people stereotyping which is unfortunately a battle that's very seldom won. Like you know, ESTJs are all squares and such.

Why are they inspired?

Yeah, stereotyping is annoying as hell. It's a hack code for misunderstanding, isn't it?


I've never known this to be true. More often seems the case with some ESFJs and ESFPs though. I think what ABCENFP said is closer. They are good at giving advice and building others up, but they will often do this even when their own mood is sitting near the bottom of the marianas trench. The people being uplifted or helped tend to be so absorbed in the positve feels they're experiencing as a result of the ENFP's championing that they likely miss subtle cues that all may not be as well as it seems for the ENFP. They seem similar to INFJs in that regard. Both will sacrifice their own happiness or suffer in silence whilst projecting a bubbly outward persona to the world and helping build other people up. I'm married to an INFJ and my older sister is an ENFP, so I have seen the darker side a lot and I am also generally good at reading when people aren't as happy as they may initially seem. These two types are especially prone to giving more than they ever receive and sometimes overextend themselves in their generosity and helpfulness. If you have an ENFP or an INFJ in your life, just be aware that they are likely fighting their own hard battles but have simply decided to keep this from you out of a sense of selflessness. Return the favor and build them up with a compliment or a thanks every once in a while.

Fair enough. My Mom (ESFJ) is one of those people who does try and have a "good atmosphere" to keep things moving. She is a typical "Mom" figure if you get me. She cares a lot about well-being, but I wouldn't say that she is as optimistic as ENFP in the metaphorical/word sense. The championing is too much for me.

I still don't understand why people are so altruistic and try to build other people up. And for the people to be uplifted, they have to give in to the ENFPs schtick and "let" them compliment them and give them "good vibes", which doesn't always work outright. I can miss cues because I'm not very good at Fi or Fe. I try to focus my Se on that in social situations when I have to, but otherwise, it's difficult for me to do. It makes me come across as a super ass when I am not intending to, it seems.

Sacrificing self joy to serve others? Motivational speakers. As I said, it is all psychological and it doesn't always work. Being too generous and overextending yourself is not healthy in the long run, nor does it make sense. I will probably forget to compliment them. I don't do compliments, I just do truths. Not a sentimental person at all.


Positivist =/= happy/bubbly. Just means you notice/focus on the positive over the negative. Positivist/negativist is literally just the equivalent of "glass is half empty/half full." Negativist will point out what's missing/needed (thus making them good at being improvement oriented), positivist will point out what's present/good. Doesn't mean you're going to be happy and energetic all of the time.

I suppose so, and I guess that Positive/Negative is more relevant and cemented into Socionics than MBTI, but I just see that as a stereotype in MBTI (ENFP positivity). Yeah, nothing is wrong with either outlook but I do find it interesting that the stereotype is that it seems to be prevalent to the ENFP personality type. I agree that you won't be happy all the time, but people also confuse it with just being happy. You can be content/happy but point out things that are missing, and vice versa.

Humans are, in general, simple-minded creatures. Really not that bright, but still capable of more than they achieve. When it comes to understanding others, most humans want the easy route, the shortcut, the quick/easy/simple answer. They don't want to apply themselves to genuinely wrap their minds around complex nuances. That results in making assumptions, jumping to conclusions, stereotyping, and all kinds of (chosen) stupidity. I say "stupidity" because it is chosen despite having more capability. To me, that is the definition of stupidity: being capable of more, but refusing to learn by choice. It's easier to just toss everyone into boxes than it is to pursue being an active listener. Most people are sheeple who prefer the familiar/what's similar to them. They don't want to understand those who are outside of the box, those who are different. They want to make a box and shove everyone into it. When it's not typology, it's always some other category. Aristocracy ties in as well.

So, then you get...

I agree, but for some people, it is hard(er) for them to actually understand nuances in other people. Logically, everyone's brains are not wired to do that, and it's difficult for them to understand those aspects of people. Some people do want to have shortcuts, but I also think that it is beneficial for some people to understand it roughly ad figure out the rest for themselves, and fill out the blanks 'cause that's how it works best for them.

I think that stereotypes are harmful if they are taken as "full truths" and not critically examined and understood. Yeah, some people don't want to learn or hone their critical thinking skills because they're happy with being ignorant and believing their skewed views of 'what is'. If the boxes are inaccurate, then you're not going to understand and learn anything, if you have finalized conclusions. I agree that people don't want to understand things. Ignorance is bliss to those people.

Hierarchies are misunderstood. People never question why they're how they are, and they don't challenge them. They don't want to examine them, break them down. Make their own conclusions and opinions. They want to stay inside their boxes as you said. That's definitely an issue in on itself. But if people don't challenge themselves, they're gonna rot and stay stagnant, but that's how society is, and that's how it goes. It needs a reshuffle, but that's another post for another day.
 

Lady Lunacik

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@Captain_Invincible

Re: hierarchies are misunderstood

People are misunderstood, therefore hierarchies are misunderstood. If people were understood, the hierarchies comprised of people would also be more capable of being understood. They also prioritize idiotic things...status based on financial well-being and material wealth, how many degrees you have, etc. All such things are rooted in folly.
 
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@Captain_Invincible

Re: hierarchies are misunderstood

People are misunderstood, therefore hierarchies are misunderstood. If people were understood, the hierarchies comprised of people would also be more capable of being understood. They also prioritize idiotic things...status based on financial well-being and material wealth, how many degrees you have, etc. All such things are rooted in folly.
Yeah, I agree but people are unpredictable at times, therefore difficult to understand on a personable level, no matter how much talking you do or how close to them you get. I think that people think that because of that, they think that it’s easier to put people into groups and stereotype them (not saying that this is the most accurate or effective way to do it, it usually isn’t).

Heirarchies of people, especially in a corporate sense will always be misunderstood because the main aim is to keep the business going through the systematic labour of the workers and higher ups. Heirarchies in society comprised of people tend to have similar motives but with a different end goal (to keep society running). When it gets imbalanced, the cogs stop ticking and things get messed up and imbalanced, that’s why people rebel.

As for your point, it’s definitely good and makes sense as an idea and something that people can work on, but in reality and of the implementation of it in the current state of the world as things are would be hard to implement because lots of people don’t think the same way as you about people in hierarchies and hierarchies being more understood.

Yeah, people do prioritise stupid things. Society is also materialistic as well as build around status. Capitalism. Nothing has changed in that aspect for years. In modern society at least. People work themselves to death to achieve next to nothing most of the time. And the rich eat off them and keep themselves afloat, it’s a game of dog eat dog, survival of the fittest when it comes to the economy.

It’s insane that people still live like that and don’t question things, don’t wanna challenge the status quo and break down the system and rebuild it. People are conditioned at a young age to go along with things and not question them. Not rebel. Not think for themselves.

Too many people are asleep and that’s the way it is. We can shake them out of their slumber for a while but most of them will revert back to their old ways and fail.

ENFPs have dominant Ne and secondary Fi. This would often mean they are constantly formulating conceptual connections, add Fi feeling to that and what happens? With the right emotion it turns into inspiration.

That sounds kinda like IEE in Socionics. Looking for possibilities and using and figuring out potential connections. Using their feelings and sense of distance to work out how to form and get close to X person. That all sounds alien to me, but it’s interesting to figure out how it all works as well.

So basically, they are the motivator personality type because usually those aspects come together and give the impression of them being “positive” all the time because of their default mode of functioning?
 

ENFPMale

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I'm an ENFP and I'm not always positive. But, I'm more positive than negative. That's because with my Ne, I am able to see different pathways to my goals and aspirations. It's not like Ni that single focused on one goal and with Se chaos coming along to ruin that ONE plan, you can become neurotic and pessimistic. Because I have multiple options I can explore, if one falls apart, I have another pathway I can follow hence I'm least likely to be neurotic. I've been in situations with little options and I did feel negative and neurotic so I can empathized with those with Ni.
 

Lady_X

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It's the ne for sure that makes us inspired and we get happy/ excited when we are inspired and filled with new interesting ideas. It doesn't just have to be about a person or uplifting them but watch how an enfp lights up if you start talking about biz ideas.

inspiration--new ideas = happy excited enfp
 
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I'm an ENFP and I'm not always positive. But, I'm more positive than negative. That's because with my Ne, I am able to see different pathways to my goals and aspirations. It's not like Ni that single focused on one goal and with Se chaos coming along to ruin that ONE plan, you can become neurotic and pessimistic. Because I have multiple options I can explore, if one falls apart, I have another pathway I can follow hence I'm least likely to be neurotic. I've been in situations with little options and I did feel negative and neurotic so I can empathized with those with Ni.

So you think that having open options makes you positive?

It's the ne for sure that makes us inspired and we get happy/ excited when we are inspired and filled with new interesting ideas. It doesn't just have to be about a person or uplifting them but watch how an enfp lights up if you start talking about biz ideas.

inspiration--new ideas = happy excited enfp

With enneagram 7 and Ne base, I can see why you would be "happy", especially with ideas.
 

blisterectome

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Hi, I'm confused. Have I been mistyped? I'm an INTP ESE 8w7 sx, but I feel like an ISTP 4w5 with severe issues regulating my emotions where I can't stop crying. Could you please help me find my real type?
I'm asking because I saw ESE in the thread.
 
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