Introversion and Submissiveness

[Narrator]

First post, please excuse my lay language.

Something I've wondered about lately is the connection between introversion and submissiveness. I'm not talking lifestyle or role-play. I searched here for some info just now and found polls and related issues, but I guess I need better search techniques.

Some psychology texts seem to infer that the two are almost synonymous. And in a way it makes sense, though I have met people who fit into the other three quadrants (ID, IS, ES and ED, if you don't mind my shorthand (S for submissive and D for dominant)... If there is a more common shorthand, please let me know). One question I have is, whether IS and ED are more common than the other two. I'm also wondering how much influence the MBTI types affect the characteristics of submissiveness or dominance.

I'm particularly interested in the submissive side because, as a male, it's a little disconcerting to realize that I'm submissive, introverted and have Aspergers. Nice package deal hey. Also, as a submissive type, I'm exploring what that means. And as an INTP (strong I, strong T), it means I'm keen to analyze it. I'm also exploring why submissive introverts go against type by not doing things they/we ought to do - whether it's a mechanism of being on guard against things perceived to be unfair or taking advantage, or if something else is going on.

Anyway.. enough for now.. lots more in my thinking on the topic.

Cheers

 

[PeaceBaby]

Have you investigated your enneagram type yet?

 

[Dyslexxie]

There's a stereotype that extroverts are egocentric and somewhat aggressive while introverts are passive but I definitely think it depends on the personality - there are some quite aggressive introverts. I think aggression in the two differs where with extroverts it can hit you like a train, while introverts are like an earthquake that slowly builds until everything is in shambles.
This guy (he's an INTP like yourself) has some cool blog posts you may enjoy. Are you struggling with your submissiveness or just wondering how to work with it?

 

[kyuuei]

I suppose that depends on how your submissiveness manifests.

Submissive in bed? Submissive in the sense that you're wanting a dominant personality in a relationship? Willing to switch roles with a woman and be the stay-at-home-take-care-of-her-and-weather-her-temperament-type? I think you'd find that there are women who see value in that. I had a LTR with a very submissive man personality wise and I highly enjoyed the dynamic.

Submissive as in you don't have any confidence, ambition for what you want in your own life, float through life sort? Different story entirely. If you let people just treat you like garbage, or worse you're justifying letting people treat you badly, that's an entirely different type of submissive.. an unhealthy type that people will tend to stay away from.

 

[Poki]

I can make an EJ submissive..lol. my personal submissive is a way I feel someone out for certain side of them. Don't confuse submissive with not caring about certain things though.

I have been told I would do very well as a dominant person. I have no desire to be though. I would rather walk side by side then dom/sub. I will take over when need and even follow while still watching and stuff. I guess I walk side by side while always being a protector whether I am leading or following. Not submissive though

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I can make an EJ submissive..lol. my personal submissive is a way I feel someone out for certain side of them. Don't confuse submissive with not caring about certain things though.

I have been told I would do very well as a dominant person. I have no desire to be though. I would rather walk side by side then dom/sub. I will take over when need and even follow while still watching and stuff. I guess I walk side by side while always being a protector whether I am leading or following. Not submissive though

You really are Wolverine.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I can make an EJ submissive..lol. my personal submissive is a way I feel someone out for certain side of them. Don't confuse submissive with not caring about certain things though.

I have been told I would do very well as a dominant person. I have no desire to be though. I would rather walk side by side then dom/sub. I will take over when need and even follow while still watching and stuff. I guess I walk side by side while always being a protector whether I am leading or following. Not submissive though

This is just quiet dominance I believe. This is perhaps the way dominance manifests in an introvert? Makes sense. I'd like to hear more about how you are not dominant...


As to the OP, I have not thought much about it, but it is an intriguing question. I agree with dyslexxie.

I don't know enough about this lifestyle to be able to give a good synopsis yet, but I would like to.

I'd wager that introverted types are more quietly controlling, expect their submissives to stay in line without much repeated direction, and make 'better' submissives; while extraverted types are bolder about who is boss, more directive, and have a harder time submitting. But these are very loose conjectures.


In other words, introverted doms/masters have higher expectations of a sub/slave; while extraverted doms put up with a lot more recalcitrance from a sub/slave.

 

[Poki]

This is just quiet dominance I believe. This is perhaps the way dominance manifests in an introvert? Makes sense. I'd like to hear more about how you are not dominant...


As to the OP, I have not thought much about it, but it is an intriguing question. I agree with dyslexxie.

I don't know enough about this lifestyle to be able to give a good synopsis yet, but I would like to.

I'd wager that introverted types are more quietly controlling, expect their submissives to stay in line without much repeated direction, and make 'better' submissives; while extraverted types are bolder about who is boss, more directive, and have a harder time submitting. But these are very loose conjectures.


In other words, introverted doms/masters have higher expectations of a sub/slave; while extraverted doms put up with a lot more recalcitrance from a sub/slave.

I don't have a desire to be in control so unless need be I don't really control people. I control things like my environment very heavily though. Not in the typical "stucture", I control it so it runs smooth and as maintenance free as possible to free myself up. I don't like being controlled by my environment.

For example, I will go out to eat with my niece and she has a problem with her food. Depending on her reaction I may or may not say something. I first ask if she wants me to, I then watch her to see what she really wants. This is unlike someone like my ex that first sign of i don't like has already grabbed the food, worked with or complained ithe the manager and has a new one on the way. She is very much a act first, think later type of person where as I am a think first act second type of person.

Submissive is usually just a think type, they don't act that much. My GF is more naturally submissive though she can be strong from time to time. I am working on that with her, to help her know when to be submissive and when to be strong. Mostly because it causes her issues, not that it causes me issues.

 

[Ene]

[MENTION=12103]Poki[/MENTION] I love how you say walk side by side. That is exactly how I am. I have no desire to be dominant or control others, but neither do I want them to try and control me.

 

[Poki]

[MENTION=12103]Poki[/MENTION] I love how you say walk side by side. That is exactly how I am. I have no desire to be dominant or control others, but neither do I want them to try and control me.

Yeah, that's why I used follow/lead. Its different then dominant/submissive. It has a different feel and interaction. It more of a personal choice then dom/sub. I hate being controlled. It rubs me the wrong way and there is a time limit before I snap.

 

[Poki]

You really are Wolverine.

I asked someone and they said the only thing I am lacking is his temper.

I actually picked this avatar because other then bing hawaiian I end up looking alot like him when I don't get a hair cut or shave. Not ripped currently, but similiar body style as well.

 

[Ene]

Yeah, that's why I used follow/lead. Its different then dominant/submissive. It has a different feel and interaction. It more of a personal choice then dom/sub. I hate being controlled. It rubs me the wrong way and there is a time limit before I snap.

Yes! Exactly.

 

[Kullervo]

Have you investigated your enneagram type yet?

Yes, this is important as well.

Also, most people aren't purely dominant or submissive. It depends on their energy level and the partner they are with. [MENTION=4939]kyuuei[/MENTION] also makes a good point about people switching their role in different situations. I have mentioned the CEO factor before where a superficially dominant person, usually male, has a different balance with his girlfriend/wife in his private life (or vice versa).

Submission is quite distinct from sloth (a lack of desire to achieve, or ambition).

 

[Narrator]

Have you investigated your enneagram type yet?

Starting to.. I was wading through it yesterday.. any pointers?

There's a stereotype that extroverts are egocentric and somewhat aggressive while introverts are passive but I definitely think it depends on the personality - there are some quite aggressive introverts. I think aggression in the two differs where with extroverts it can hit you like a train, while introverts are like an earthquake that slowly builds until everything is in shambles.
This guy (he's an INTP like yourself) has some cool blog posts you may enjoy. Are you struggling with your submissiveness or just wondering how to work with it?

I love the analogies. My dept head is like the first one.

Am I struggling with my submissiveness? I guess I always have. I used to think myself quietly, perhaps benignly dominant, but that's probably just a male perception coloured by social norms. But now that I understand it's in my nature to be submissive, I'm learning how to work with it. Tough gig for an older person.

I suppose that depends on how your submissiveness manifests.

Submissive in bed? Submissive in the sense that you're wanting a dominant personality in a relationship? Willing to switch roles with a woman and be the stay-at-home-take-care-of-her-and-weather-her-temperament-type? I think you'd find that there are women who see value in that. I had a LTR with a very submissive man personality wise and I highly enjoyed the dynamic.

Submissive as in you don't have any confidence, ambition for what you want in your own life, float through life sort? Different story entirely. If you let people just treat you like garbage, or worse you're justifying letting people treat you badly, that's an entirely different type of submissive.. an unhealthy type that people will tend to stay away from.

Submissive in life! lol.. Whether bed, relationships, socially or at work. There are two ways to approach a submissive person, in my experience - with expectations or with respect. I'm not against expectations, per se, but when a dominant personality sees the advantage, they will often take it. An aware submissive may then protect themselves, perhaps too much.

Over the years, I've often taken the dominant role (in each of the above) and yet rarely felt comfortable doing so. As for how people treat me, I often weigh up the competing needs, acknowledge the wants, and then go from there, perhaps too often ceding to the wants. Confidence is a relative thing. Some things I am confident in. But being an aspie, I miss a lot of social cues, so that compounds things a little. My wife often picks me up on things I missed. And I'm great at post-analysis.. lol.

Part of me is dealing with this as a growth/awareness thing, and the other part of me finds the whole topic fascinating.

As to the OP, I have not thought much about it, but it is an intriguing question. I agree with dyslexxie.

I don't know enough about this lifestyle to be able to give a good synopsis yet, but I would like to.

I'd wager that introverted types are more quietly controlling, expect their submissives to stay in line without much repeated direction, and make 'better' submissives; while extraverted types are bolder about who is boss, more directive, and have a harder time submitting. But these are very loose conjectures.


In other words, introverted doms/masters have higher expectations of a sub/slave; while extraverted doms put up with a lot more recalcitrance from a sub/slave.

As to 'lifestyle' dom/sub, that's not what I'm about, but it's also an interesting topic. In the lifestyle there are more expectations as well as established conventions. Some people call it 'unconventional' but to me it's just a different set of conventions. I've had conversations with dom/sub lifestyle people, from those who role-play to those who live it 24/7, but the one thing most seem unable to do is to talk about it without the cliches, like those who can't talk religion without cliches. But that's a whole other topic - the need to adopt conventions and the vacuum it creates when there are none.

 

[Narrator]

Have you investigated your enneagram type yet?

I just did the test from this site and came up with 9w1. Throw in the scores from the rest and it's a reasonable proximity. What's the so/sx etc thing people add on?

Oh wow! I just saw.. Donald Sutherland's character in Ordinary People is considered a 9w1. I always identified with that character.

 

[Yama]

I just did the test from this site and came up with 9w1. Throw in the scores from the rest and it's a reasonable proximity. What's the so/sx etc thing people add on?

Those would be the instinctual variants.

 

[Poki]

Yes, this is important as well.

Also, most people aren't purely dominant or submissive. It depends on their energy level and the partner they are with. [MENTION=4939]kyuuei[/MENTION] also makes a good point about people switching their role in different situations. I have mentioned the CEO factor before where a superficially dominant person, usually male, has a different balance with his girlfriend/wife in his private life (or vice versa).

Submission is quite distinct from sloth (a lack of desire to achieve, or ambition).

With my ex people thought I was submissive and irritated the crap out of her, I just don't care about very much. Irritated he because she knew I wasn't and because of how much she did people thought she ran me over.

 

[á´…eparted]

I am quite dominant. Being submissive usually makes me uncomfortable. I chalk it up to my extroversion. That said, they are not connected in everyone.

 

[Crabs]

I'm always amused by people who think they are dominant, but are really just annoying try-hards.

 

[Typonavek]

I have always been a natural leader, which means I know when to follow, when to dominate, when to submit, when it is important to demand respect, and when to allow others to attempt disrespect (with the belief that if I know and respect myself, nobody can actually affect my respectability). I am respected, in part, because I do not crave power or seek to lead but find myself in that position because I am fair and knowledgeable and share what I know rather than weaponize it, plus if I don't know something I investigate rather than invent a false answer. I'm authentic. I've discovered that, for the most part, if a person doesn't like me it's usually because they've not taken the time to know me.
In bed I used to be"an equal." Then someone introduced me to meth and reprogrammed me, so-to-speak, to be subservient and entirely focused on his pleasure to the extremity that I'd enjoy his doing what I didn't like if he did enjoy it, not concerning himself or even enjoying that I didn't.
These two character sets seem incompatible and confusing at times, yet there they are. I've simplified this explanation but that's the gist of it.