A little project

[five sounds]

^This actually ties into what I mentioned to you on the side regarding EP women as "public property". In other words, this is an issue that impacts all women. But there are certain personality characteristics...Extroversion (Pe & specifically Fe) Positive Outlook (especially 2 & 7)... <-when part of a female's personality these characteristics seem to communicate in a more immediate way "Please turn me into the object you're entitled to."

I've totally received the whole "first world problems" and "Life's rough" comments from males and females alike. <-Um yah, if this had anything to do with me as an individual...then perhaps so. But I assure you it doesn't.

When I consider my father...should I have Daddy issues? Yes. I really, truly should...but I don't (honestly, I don't even know what "Daddy issues" means but my Dad is awesome and I really don't think I have them.) I'm not bringing this kind of thing down on me due to anything having to do with my Dad as he basically raised me to be a man anyway (in my culture women eventually become the head of the family.)

This is due to other things. And those things have nothing to do with me.

seriously thank you so much for posting this.

i know it happens to some women more than others, and i know i'm the kind of woman it happens more to. this observation, along with all of the stupid blame others put on women in this kind of situation (i.e. life's rough. that's what you get for being too nice. why don't you dress in loose amorphous clothing so that you're not sirening them in with your normal ass clothes?) but my conclusion has ALWAYS been, i'm the way i am and i will not be pressured to change that or made to believe that i'm the one causing this behavior by being so.

i'm not. it's bigger than that.

 

[Poki]

Unwelcome is based on who it comes from most of the time and that's based on the person. I have a friend that I jokingly reply with and she replies with :O. Meaning her mouth is open, do as you wish. If someone else were to make that comment it would be sexual harassment and unwanted. Another friend of her would walk up behind her and poke her back as if he is turned on...this would cracked her up. She didn't want him in anyway, it's was a play on human nature for fun and they both laughed. To her sexual is a turn on and a laughing matter, not a serious offense.

It's all about wanted vs unwanted, not what is said.

IMHO, I make sexual references all the time, I just don't force myself or push what I say. It's a side comment for fun and it's done. I have never been accused of sexual harrasment.

 

[Frosty]

Ihave had some really intense stuff said to me, nearly completely in jest that does not bother me in the slightest. Yet, I have also had lower key harassment that was NOT consensual- that if mentioned on its own would seem nearly completely innocuous.

So is it based on what the recipient determines to be inappropriate, context, judgment of what society has forced on the self to determine as sexually suggestive.

Society has become too sensitive to certain matters, but completely desensitized to others. When you can be called out as sexually harassing someone just for touching them, when a teacher giving a student a pat on the back or a hug is looked at with questioning eyes... where dress codes exist- ones that focus the blame on one sex- but blindly after the fact claim not to... I dunno. Is more harm being done in trying to prevent a 'rape' culture?

 

[evilrubberduckie]

For the women who dont like being sexually assaulted, I am more then gladly willing to offer you how to make a "resting bitch face"

its when you relax your face, but rather then looking soft, you look like a bitch.

I do it all the time on public transport, haven't been gangbanged so far.

 

[Starry]

Unwelcome is based on who it comes from most of the time and that's based on the person. I have a friend that I jokingly reply with and she replies with :O. Meaning her mouth is open, do as you wish. If someone else were to make that comment it would be sexual harassment and unwanted. Another friend of her would walk up behind her and poke her back as if he is turned on...this would cracked her up. She didn't want him in anyway, it's was a play on human nature for fun and they both laughed. To her sexual is a turn on and a laughing matter, not a serious offense.

It's all about wanted vs unwanted, not what is said.

IMHO, I make sexual references all the time, I just don't force myself or push what I say. It's a side comment for fun and it's done. I have never been accused of sexual harrasment.

I agree with everything you have written here. Although, I would probably assign a lot more positive credit to you and your ability to read people and situations...than you did as your statements were more neutrally presented. I mean, I think it would be so sad if people couldn't joke around about sex and sexuality without someone filing a lawsuit. But yah...the fact you make a good number of sexual references and are socially and interpersonally successful tells me you have a solid, ongoing awareness of "who, what, where, when, why and how." You read the world well.


I think intention is a main player in all of this too though. People are human and humans make a lot of mistakes. There needs to be room for these. But you can tell...even over the fricken internet...that you are a straightforward, upstanding, humane person. In other words, some of why you've never been accused of sexual harassment can and should (still) be attributed to the fact you've never consciously or subconsciously sexually harassed - and never would.

 

[Betty Blue]

Heard so many inappropriate comments, not to mention unwanted staring/ogling/touching and etc... the most recent I can remember is last week in the womens changing rooms. I went in and a female member of staff informed me that a male attendant was there checking the drains in the shower area. Sure enough a man came out of the shower area. And cheerfully said to me, standing a little too close... 'I'd love to stay but I am a red blooded male'... seriously WTF in a supposed safe area for women to be confident of privacy a guy says this as if consenting to share territory.

I left the gym i was in before because of guys thinking it's ok to make women feel really uncomfortable... they used to sit on the steps right outside the womens chaining rooms and stare as you had to squeeze by them and try to start conversations and be generally imposing with comments like 'don't be nervous, sit down and relax, chill out with us' etc... just plain intimidating worst thing was one of them was staff who tried to get me to join the squash team and wanted to be my personal trainer... and he was soooo pushy. I made a complaint by email and left. They even had the cheek to charge me for a full month more and i just got a two line response in email which was a copied out reply... like a bad attempt at a kindergarden test question.


GRRRRRRRR

 

[cascadeco]

I don't know, I think I give off a strong don't-flirt vibe, it's actually intentional, because I don't really get anything like that at work, and coworkers can. Though, the coworkers who have gotten that are all extroverted and super friendly, and 17 years younger than me. They'll be given phone numbers sometimes. (I work in a coffee shop) Also, guys tend to feel more comfortable doing that sort of thing through the drive thru, I usually work in the store and it doesn't really happen at the counter.

BUT, I have a strong creep radar though, I suppose in that sense I am not a great candidate for customer service, I immediately become super blank faced and don't engage in convo outside of 'what drink would you like' with those guys. So I essentially give them nothing to work with. They then turn to other baristas who are friendlier, lol.

So yeah, can't say I get or even in the past got comments towards me like what I'm reading in this thread, that would suck. I'm sure I've gotten indirect hints, who knows, maybe even a direct comment on occasion but I immediately forget it and don't bother registering it? But I guess just ignore those if they happen, like if someone seems to have that vibe I go totally cold. I don't know. In college, I guess on occasion the catcall would happen. Like others have mentioned, I think it's something women just tend to get desensitized to or ignore.

 

[1487610420]

 

[miss fortune]

It's these "little reminders" that should be met with saying a word, to make the point clear that the line has already been crossed, and that is unacceptable. This is a crisis of confidence as much as anything else, but most women are not raised to feel confident. They are prepared to become victims.

Can you guess which profession is most likely to suffer sexual assault, for exactly the reasons you describe?

Real estate agents. They meet unfamiliar clients alone in vacant properties.

I can imagine that it would be worst in sales fields which are paid on commission and involve being in strange locations with strange men... when you don't want to jeopardize your living by being too snappy, but you don't want to go along with what they want as well

I had to regularly remind younger women in the field that playing nice with them won't get them anywhere either... these are people who aren't interested in buying anything from you, these are people who just want to see how much they can get from you because they know that you depend upon them for money

guys would get harassed occasionally as well, though not as frequently as the women did

 

[five sounds]

For the women who dont like being sexually assaulted, I am more then gladly willing to offer you how to make a "resting bitch face"

its when you relax your face, but rather then looking soft, you look like a bitch.

I do it all the time on public transport, haven't been gangbanged so far.

I'd like to think that I don't need to alter my normally smiley resting face in order to not be sexually harassed. That seems like not too much to ask. Like a lot not too much to ask at all.

 

[evilrubberduckie]

I'd like to think that I don't need to alter my normally smiley resting face in order to not be sexually harassed. That seems like not too much to ask. Like a lot not too much to ask at all.

I find it to be amusing human behavior.

But I understand the animosity behind sexual assult... It's just that I'd like to handle it through humor. any other form and I will become more closed off and cynical then I already am.



well, just to sedate curiosity to the lurkers. "resting bitchface" is simple. All you have to do is push your lower jaw slightly forward. as in, the bottom row of your teeth, have then match perfectly with your front row or protruding slightly more forward while keeping your mouth closed.

 

[Betty Blue]

I find it to be amusing human behavior.

But I understand the animosity behind sexual assult... It's just that I'd like to handle it through humor. any other form and I will become more closed off and cynical then I already am.



well, just to sedate curiosity to the lurkers. "resting bitchface" is simple. All you have to do is push your lower jaw slightly forward. as in, the bottom row of your teeth, have then match perfectly with your front row or protruding slightly more forward while keeping your mouth closed.

I think the whole resting bitch face works when it is a guy just being a 'dick'... e.g trying his luck, showing off in front of friends, not even sure what he'd do if his advances were accepted type scenario but I think you are missing the darker side. For example if you are walking down the street alone and three men are blocking your path not looking friendly in any way shape or form who then start to make lewd comments... it's a different story, resting bitch face in these types of scenarios can be provocative... honestly it's summing up the situation and responding accordingly to get yourself outa there as fast as possible. I have had to talk my way out of potentially disastrous situations many times, sometimes unsuccessfully.

 

[Betty Blue]

People that believe rape culture is a myth are totally blind. It is still used to 'oppress' women. I do not believe all men are guilty by the way thats total nonsense. But honestly most men who try to treat women truly equally are still seen as 'pushover's' 'wet blankets' 'gay' if they share their views. Thankfully I do have a lot of men in my life who do treat women equally or as equally as they can, because i choose not to have the others in my life. And also because i was lucky enough to have parents who were into equal rights so from a young age i had that head start. Also being in a bit of a hippie commune helps not be too affected by societal conditioning, though of course you still have the hippie conditioning... though mine was also mixed in with a bit of radical feminism (which i vehemently rejected), rock and punk. I suppose it still defines me a little.

Back on topic... The earliest I remember feeling threatened by a gender difference was probably around the age nine when the Judo instructor used to always ask me to sit on his knee (I was the only girl in the class and the only one asked to sit on his knee) then at ten or eleven when sexual advances were made on me by an adult with mental health problems, closely followed by an attempted kidnapping by a man... i think those situations really woke me up to societies inequalities in genders. These are of course more than comments but I do believe a lot of men think that women over exaggerate, women understand the implications of such comments and due to experiences often feel threatened by such. The fact is that something like 1 in 3 women are raped or attempted rape at some point in their lives and most women have been sexually assaulted. If a man has ever been sexually assaulted by another man they probably do get it, but thats a lot rarer. Actually looking at the stats it seems to show 1 out of 6 which is half what i suggested. Also I had not realised that the stats for men are so high. 1 to of every 10 cases the victims are men.
Sorry i know it;s a tangent... but it's sorta the end of the same road.

 

[EJCC]

I can probably count on both hands the number of times I've been sexually harassed that weren't in other countries (Egypt, the UK, Italy). Which is strange, because from what I've heard from other people, attractiveness has nothing to do with whether you're sexually harassed or not. (Meaning, my initial rationalization of "I'm not that attractive, so I don't get harassed" doesn't apply.)

Upon discussion with one of my roommates, there are several reasons why I have rarely been sexually harassed:
1) My hometown was incredibly safe and I rarely heard of anyone being sexually harassed on the street.
2) I tend to be so focused/off in my own world when I'm walking place to place, that I won't even notice if one of my friends is trying to flag me down -- so it's very possible that harassment has happened that I didn't notice. Also, I don't have resting bitchface, but I definitely have resting determined/focused face. Like I've got somewhere to be.
3) I went to school for three years in a place with cobblestone roads, low speed limits, and narrow sidewalks. Makes it difficult to do the drive slow/yell something out the window/speed up thing.
4) After I graduated, I moved to a neighborhood with a VERY low crime rate. (My roommate has left her bike unlocked on our front porch for two years and it has not been stolen.)

Since I've started working in a neighborhood with more unusual characters, and a higher crime rate, I've had more stuff like that happen. Nothing lewd or threatening, just awkward.

Also I was harassed three times in my approx. six days in Portland. Which was really bizarre. It ranged from wolf-whistles out car windows, to a homeless guy asking if he could see up my skirt when I told him I didn't have any change.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I started to respond and realized this thread was for female victims. Also, men can't be sexually harassed, so the experience I intended to share is voided.

 

[EJCC]

I started to respond and realized this thread was for female victims.

True.

Also, men can't be sexually harassed, so the experience I intended to share is voided.

Not true.

 

[Starry]

I started to respond and realized this thread was for female victims. Also, men can't be sexually harassed, so the experience I intended to share is voided.

I don't remember the specific comments...but I've witnessed male sexual harassment.

 

[uumlau]

One thing to keep in mind is that there is plenty of male-on-male harassment, period. Not all of it is sexual. Most all of it is power games.

 

[chickpea]

Oakland is worse than anywhere I've ever been when it comes to street harassment. Like I'm lucky to take a 5 minute walk without getting bothered. Sometimes the words aren't even offensive, but when I don't respond the way someone wants they'll turn hostile and start insulting me. Why a stranger on the street would feel so entitled to my time or attention, I don't know.

At work is a whole other story because I'm in customer service and am supposed to be nice and smile at everyone, but some guys take advantage of the fact that I'm a captive audience.

 

[violet_crown]

Also, men can't be sexually harassed, so the experience I intended to share is voided.

Of course they can't, sugarballs.

Now be a doll, jump on this stool here and reach for the jar on that high shelf while I watch.