pinkgraffiti
New member
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2011
- Messages
- 1,482
- MBTI Type
- ENFP
- Enneagram
- 748
- Instinctual Variant
- sx/so
Requesting a wall'o'text, eh?
Outwardly, we look very different and I cannot imagine people thinking we have similar personalities. Growing up, I failed to identify with my mom much, which I think partly created my 4 sense of being different, especially in a defective way. I was criticized a LOT for not being an SF woman, basically. I was frequently compared to my INTP uncle and INFJ aunt, who are considered "odd". So that said, I think the confusion could come in how my mom sees herself, which may sound more INFP than ISFJ in many ways if she were to describe herself. However, my mom is a baby boomer and still fits a lot of stereotypical ISFJ stuff pretty well. I know some young ISFJ women and they reflect a lot of Millennial values, and I know when my mom was young she was a bit "trendy" and not "traditional". For example, she hopped on the hippy bandwagon for stuff like natural birth outside a hospital and breastfeeding, which were more novel concepts in her day and amounted to deviating from the "norms" in her childhood.
A lot of Millennial values sound like stereotypes of INFPs - the whole indie/hipster subculture, emphasis on things being "special" and "personal", the "follow your dreams" and "do what you love" mantras, greater awareness of the environment and treatment of animals, various social "progress" as new cultural values, etc.
So anyway, I am actually going to note stuff that could be misconstrued in her own self-perception, but how it actually differs from myself (and how I see INFPs).
Examples:
- Being "future oriented" is often attributed to being an N type. However, my mom is more of a planner and worries a lot about the future. She imagines worst case scenarios a lot. That could be construed as thinking about "possibilities".
- She likes new things, but needs to have an idea ahead of time of what it will be like, what to expect, and she seeks trusted sources to inform her. I am far more comfortable with the true "unknown" and seek out novelty on my own. I am less prone to consider possible risks.
- My mom can seem highly gullible and even prone to magical thinking or superstitiousness in a way that may make her feel she is whimsical or not "down to earth". She will adopt wacky beliefs in stuff, such as believing you can "think away" serious illness and especially weight loss scams. While I like to contemplate silly new agey junk like "auras", I don't believe it. I like to think about it because the absurdity amuses me...she seems to believe it, even if for a temporary time.
- She is way more concerned about, say, treatment of animals than I am. Most SFs I know are that way. I make a clear distinction between different animals and the human experience, so that I don't project human experience onto animals as much. My mom is the type to wonder "what the cat is thinking". A lot of people associate this with NFPs for some reason.
- My mom is very curious, and I think some of it is fear driven. She definitely fears the unknown, but it can manifest as curiosity that can venture into that whimsical territory again. She has noted that when younger she would drive people nuts asking questions that seemed silly, because she'd hear some snippet on the news and get carried away with what it was implying. Or she'd read some piece of fiction and wonder if it could really be. In contrast, I ask questions to myself and explore things, and I actually seem to have a greater sense of what is possible in reality, even if my sense of this SEEMS far-fetched to others. Yet, I create whimsy on demand better, knowing all the while it is whimsy, because for me it is usually a metaphor. My mom seems to be regurgitating stuff she has seen/hear somewhere and just finds it fund/cool or it makes her wonder in a slightly paranoid way.
- My mom spends a lot of time in her head imagining stuff, but a lot of it seems to be concrete. She will say when she reads a novel, for example, that she likes to picture what people lived like in a certain past era, that she likes descriptions of what things looked like, etc. Again, she imagines future stuff, but generally it is the immediate, realistic future and she tends to focus on what could go wrong. This could be construed as being "imaginative".
- She creates a lot. She is very crafty and has a good sense of aesthetics, but she mostly tweaks existing methods rather than "inventing" anything truly novel. She doesn't create original concepts or philosophies. She doesn't create or explore new perspectives that much. She doesn't seem to be expressing difficult, hard to articulate emotions. She doesn't seem concerned with exploring aspects of the human condition that are not part of her immediate reality. This is from my perspective, of course. She once told me that she would like to get into art, but needs to learn what is "good art". She seems more fascinated to learn about facts about an artist's life and methods than to feel the art itself in the moment & to viscerally determine whatever it is communicating. This is extremely different from how I and my ISFP step-dad approach art, which is closer to the latter. I find this especially odd, as she DOES seem to swim around very intimately in other sensory experience.
- She feels what other people feel pretty readily, probably more so than I do. I tend to empathize more intellectually. I may understand an emotional reaction that is totally foreign to me & that I have never had & would never have, seeing how the fundamental meaning of their emotional experience aligns is a basic human emotion I (& most people) have experienced and being able to enter their perspective without it affecting my own emotions. My mom readily grasps "typical" emotional responses in people and feels the emotions in the moment like they are her own. However, she cannot understand why someone would assign a particular value to something and have an associated emotional response to it, or they do not respond in the usual way most people respond, then she can be extremely dismissive or even judgmental.
- She has common sense in most cases; she knows "how things are done". I don't. Since I am always seeking an unexpected angle, it can make me miss the obvious at times, or I approach common tasks in a novel way simply because I didn't bother to observe how others do stuff and note it for future reference. This can add to my creativity or make me an airhead.
- She has pretty defined ideas of how things "should" be that definitely could be called ideals and she is not happy when stuff doesn't align with these. A difference is she thinks these are obvious truths about how reality should be or even IS (say, for other people), and she tends to romanticize the past as having met these ideals; whereas I tend to see my ideals as fundamental concepts of what is important or necessary to the human experience or my personal experience, but these are things which cannot ever be fully defined and are more like general themes to cultivate, not things which ever have or ever will perfectly exist.
- She is a perfectionist in a physical way - the environment needs to be orderly and her life should align with her ideals which are largely "measurable" stuff. This makes her more meticulous and consistent. I am a perfectionist in creating value concepts and how they are expressed (the means of expression has to be adequate), which means I am constantly adjusting and revising what "things mean" in my head, making my outward appearance and even goals way less steady. Sure, I'd love to have a picture perfect home, but I cannot prioritize it.
- I think she pleases people she cares for or respects because she wants to keep their support. I tend to do things out of principle in a more detached way. I use the word "principle", but it is a FEELING of what is right/good, but it doesn't well up as emotion within me. I am not saying there is no principle there for her, but she truly seems more moved emotionally. If I am moved emotionally, it is not about a personal attachment to anything/anyone, rather, its implicit belief in a value concept of mine. Subtle difference in description, but a big difference in how we appear.
Curious what other ISFJs think about that, especially with generational differences, because the young ISFJs I know make for much better pseudo-INFPs.
Thank you . It was a Good read.
In some places, it felt like you were more discussing enneagram differences, as I identified with her notions of future and imagining and a few other things. I saw that as your mum and me being "mental" (lol),and you "emotional",(this is sounding so bad, but I hope you understand)....it could even be that your mum is a 6(!?) and the similarities Im feeling between her and me are that (me-possible 6wing). Either that or I'm actually an ISFJ in disguise ahah. Awesome
The rest was very elucidative though. Especially the thought process differences (concrete vs abstract) and possible analogies due to culture (hippie flower power). So thanks for your post. 😊
