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[Fe] How is Fe a feeling function for the Fe user?

á´…eparted

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Be that as it may, watch your tone with me.

I don't appreciate your condescension or self-righteousness.

Best not to interact with me.

I would have said this to anyone and I was fair with my interpretation? :shrug: I am not going to change how I approached this simply because you dislike it.

My comments stand, but I will honor your request in this particular case and end this discussion
 

GarrotTheThief

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I'm pretty sure I'll be converting to ENFJ soon...

The way I see it is like this...

I walk around the office, I say what's up to everyone, I wink and I smile, I get invited out by lots of different groups.


There's a sneaky weasel who works behind me...and he has another little sneaky friend, they come to gether and shit talk for days....that to me is FI...the two little screwgy introverts coming together to talk mad shit about people behind their back except to the loyal ones they'd burn on the cross for.

Me on the other hand, I kind of swash-buckle my way through the environment. I do bond to people, one on one, and in a deep sense...but I notice FI users look for their best friends in their environment, where as FE users play the game.

I treat everyone as an equal, FE, where as the FI dudes treat everyone like shit, right off the bat, unless you know the secret shake...

I don't form intense loyal bonds because I don't like being manipulated...FI users flock together in a swarm of you rub me and I rub you bonds....I can't stand FI to be honest with you....it's like, "dude you got values?" cool...we need food to live bro...get your food first...
 

Duffy

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Me on the other hand, I kind of swash-buckle my way through the environment. I do bond to people, one on one, and in a deep sense...but I notice FI users look for their best friends in their environment, where as FE users play the game.

I treat everyone as an equal, FE, where as the FI dudes treat everyone like shit, right off the bat, unless you know the secret shake...

I don't form intense loyal bonds because I don't like being manipulated...FI users flock together in a swarm of you rub me and I rub you bonds....I can't stand FI to be honest with you....it's like, "dude you got values?" cool...we need food to live bro...get your food first...

This is a peculiar take on the feeling functions. Exclusivity / who's in and who's not / gatekeeper behavior ... has more to do with something else. I'm not sure if it's function related, but I've actually seen it attached to neurotic Fe users. For instance, this behavior showed itself on an INTP forum I used to browse.
 

GarrotTheThief

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This is a peculiar take on the feeling functions. Exclusivity / who's in and who's not / gatekeeper behavior ... has more to do with something else. I'm not sure if it's function related, but I've actually seen it attached to neurotic Fe users. For instance, this behavior showed itself on an INTP forum I used to browse.

It's possible....I notice it more when the FE or FI is not dominant...in any case...but I notice it more with FI people because they are so sneaky and quiet...but I know FE people who are loud and double faced too...perhaps...perhaps.....now that you mention it the two sneaky bastards are ENTP and INTP.
 

Kheledon

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Another peculiarity of mine is that there is usually an "aura" of my current feeling state about me...I had NOT a clue about this until recently. When I am happy, for example, there is a certain warmth in my face and my body--even when not specifically conveyed or when unintended to be revealed--that will be fairly obvious to an observant person. This was a puzzle to me until recently. I used to wonder what it was about me that drew random strangers who needed help. Beggars seem able to pick me out from a crowd, like they have an instinct that I will give them something if they ask. I used to worry that they had "mastered" me and actually knew me, until I started travelling to new cities/countries and saw the same thing happen. Then recently, a person told me that I have a certain warmth that radiates from my face and general person. I thought they were talking nonsense until I reviewed a recording of mine after seeing that "thing" in another person. Once I saw it and recognised it in her I then saw it in myself, not just in video but even in still pictures. It really is very obvious!! And I suppose for a person who specialises in approaching others for help (begging) the pattern would be quickly picked up and consciously applied.

It affects people unconsciously too, I think. When I am genuinely warm inside, everyone around me seems to instinctively react to it. My office door will remain open with people randomly coming in just to chat. Strangers, service people, everyone is just far more approaching and nice.

The same weird aura is there in my negative emotions as well. Anger or sadness. I actually think I become ugly when I am heavily overwhelmed with negative emotion....no kidding!! And rather pretty when I am sincerely feeling happiness or compassion.

I know I sound cuckoo here, but I honestly think that strong Fe users unconsciously--almost physically--radiate emotional energy from their very person to the outside world, kinda like the heat from a fire or even the glow from a light hidden under an opaqueish cover...Don't know how but it seems true to me .:shrug:

I can barely express the degree to which your words above resonate with me. I have also been known to use that term, aura, to describe the powerful Fe I exude. It's like a people-magnet when my mood is positive. It's a strong, people-repulser when my mood is negative. People who are close to me can sense it, and they will definitely avoid me when I am in a foul mood. There's an old saying used here in the Southeastern United States, at least, that goes something like, "When Momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy." That's the kind of "aura" that, it appears, strong Fe people just naturally create, project, and exude.

You don't sound cuckoo to me, but I can imagine our T dom friends thinking we both are. :Fe: = :wacko:

:happy2:
 

ZNP-TBA

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. People who are close to me can sense it,

spidersense.gif
 

Entp/infjGal

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Those two choices are worlds apart, in my experience. The fact that you feel you "may" be an introvert causes me to lean heavily toward ENFj as opposed to ESFj for you. Most of us ENFjs have such thin emotional boundaries that we must isolate ourselves from the world, quite regularly, just to avoid "feeling" it all the time. It's overwhelming.

Are you the type of person who talks to others (a lot) just because you enjoy the human interaction? That's ESFj (ESE, Alpha). ENFjs (EIE, Beta) are not nearly so talkative in my experience (unless we're either lecturing, warning people of future dangers, trying to "save" the people we care about, "performing" because we need a lot more external validation than most types, or actively trying to change the emotional states of others). The fact that you're even posting here also inclines me toward ENFj because S types are far less likely than N types, in my experience, to read and post on internet forums.

Are you democratic or aristocratic? (ESE is democratic and focused on the individual whereas EIE is aristocratic and focused on the collective.)

Are you judicious or decisive? (ESE is judicious and in a natural state of relative peace and relaxation but can really feel stress when it rears its ugly head whereas EIE is in a constant state of stress and readiness but can really feel relaxation.)

Socionics - the16types.info - Reinin Dichotomies: Research Results (You will have to scroll down a bit to get to the descriptions of the two Reinin dichotomies that I mentioned above.)

Those two Reinin dichotomies ought to be able to settle the issue for you. I hope so, in any event. Good luck!

:hi:

[MENTION=26269]Kheledon[/MENTION], :hi:

It seems socionics is just the thing for relationship-centered people. Is there some test you could recommend, or a way to tell your type...or is it just the same as the MBTI type? I guess if it is, even better for me, because I can then use socionics to settle my Jungian type right across the board (models). ;)
 

Entp/infjGal

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Lol! In a way, its kinda true...our dominant function is a little bit of a "super-power"...isn't it?:)

Though...feeling IS very interesting. The IFJs seem able to pick stuff up from the "atmosphere" while the EFJs seem able to directly influence/alter the "atmosphere" themselves....interesting! Talk about the "force", ha ha ha!

Now, now @Fi doms and auxilliaries, give it! What "weird" thing comes with wielding Fi as a super-power? I'm sure there's something...what with all that intensity of feeling localized in one spot (you!)?
 

ZNP-TBA

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Lol! In a way, its kinda true...our dominant function is a little bit of a "super-power"...isn't it?:)

I don't know I don't have your dominant function. You still have ENTP in your name. :tongue10:
 

Entp/infjGal

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I don't know I don't have your dominant function. You still have ENTP in your name. :tongue10:

Unfortunately I have to wait till 500 posts or something to change it?? I have an awesome username saved up to replace it!! :D

- - - Updated - - -

I just thought of the Fi super-power in terms of the "atmosphere". The Fi power is a forcefield. Nothing gets out and nothing gets in!!! They will comfortably move around "the atmosphere" without ever being touched by it, nor "spilling" any of their own feeling themselves...hmmm. OK, OK, I know I'm getting away from myself with this, but it is so much fun!!! :D
 

Kheledon

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Lol! In a way, its kinda true...our dominant function is a little bit of a "super-power"...isn't it?:)

It is both a blessing and a curse. It sux to feel so much. Hardly anyone can understand that, nor may we even expect them to. You'd have to experience it for yourself in order to understand. Most just deny it (i.e. "Hey! I feel stuff too. You don't have any kind of monopoly on feeling.") That's true, of course. Everyone feels, but there's no way for someone who is not an ENFj to understand how "thin" our emotional boundaries are, nor can they understand how emotionally "unstable" we are. It's just beyond their comprehension.

Fe is a powerful tool for shaping the world and influencing others, but it's also an incredible sponge of all the feeling in the world, both good and bad, and it is so overwhelming at times that many ENFjs choose the life of a recluse in order to simply avoid feeling all the pain out there (or to avoid being taken advantage of because we, as martyr types, will literally give ourselves to death if we are not very prudent).

[MENTION=15392]Cellmold[/MENTION] may be a living example, and definitely not the only one.
 

ZNP-TBA

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I just thought of the Fi super-power in terms of the "atmosphere". The Fi power is a forcefield. Nothing gets out and nothing gets in!!!

That force field would be the inferior Te in Fi doms. :coffee:
 

Entp/infjGal

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It is both a blessing and a curse. It sux to feel so much. Hardly anyone can understand that, nor may we even expect them to. You'd have to experience it for yourself in order to understand. Most just deny it (i.e. "Hey! I feel stuff too. You don't have any kind of monopoly on feeling.") That's true, of course. Everyone feels, but there's no way for someone who is not an ENFj to understand how "thin" our emotional boundaries are, nor can they understand how emotionally "unstable" we are. It's just beyond their comprehension.

Fe is a powerful tool for shaping the world and influencing others, but it's also an incredible sponge of all the feeling in the world, both good and bad, and it is so overwhelming at times that many ENFjs choose the life of a recluse in order to simply avoid feeling all the pain out there.

[MENTION=15392]Cellmold[/MENTION] may be a living example, and definitely not the only one.
Indeed, indeed! The incredible sensitivity you thought would go away once you became an adult....onlyto realize you just learn to manage it, it never goes away. I am told I have a very well developed Ti...I think that happens as a defense, to detach from feeling for a while. Like I told someone in another thread, I love camaraderie, but it is a bully. I have peace and a very easy time being authentic in solitude.

- - - Updated - - -

That force field would be the inferior Te in Fi doms. :coffee:

Good thinking!
 

Kheledon

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[MENTION=26269]Kheledon[/MENTION], :hi:

It seems socionics is just the thing for relationship-centered people. Is there some test you could recommend, or a way to tell your type...or is it just the same as the MBTI type? I guess if it is, even better for me, because I can then use socionics to settle my Jungian type right across the board (models). ;)

Extraverts convert precisely from MBTI to Socionics. Introverts do not. If you are an extravert, and I feel that you are, any reliable MBTI test will do. They vary greatly in quality.

What socionics allows is a lot more ways to differentiate. Quadra values and Reinin dichotomies are particularly useful, in my experience, as are erotic attitudes and romance styles.

Socionics - the16types.info - Four Quadra
Socionics - the16types.info - Beta Quadra: The Complex of Subservience by Stratiyevskaya
Socionics - the16types.info - Reinin Dichotomies: Research Results
Socionics - the16types.info - Socionics Romancing Styles
Gulenko's romance styles

Hope you find those useful. I did. I learned a great deal about myself through socionics, actually. Good luck!

:hi:
 

entropie

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Every function is a feeling function. The one who is free of that is machine
 

Evo

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This is, admittedly, a difficult concept to grasp. The question is whether we are consciously aware of our 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th Model A functions. They are rarely (if ever) available to our mental loop functions for the purpose of vocalization and explanation, but they're still there, and the ones in the 7th and 8th positions are particularly strong yet subconscious. We do them naturally, without even thinking about it. We neither recognize them in ourselves nor in others, typically. We tend to ignore or dismiss them, but they're there, and they affect our behavior dramatically. I have strong Fi values, but I ignore them (take them for granted and assume, often wrongly, that others share them). If you are a Te dom, you would have strong Ti values, but you would also tend to ignore them (take them for granted and assume, often wrongly, that others share them). That's the typical manifestation of your 7th (ignoring) function (as I understand it).


Cool. I should add that Fe OUTPUT is highly influenced by the subjective, internalized, Fi values in the subconscious id of an Fe dom (7th, ignoring function). That explains why Fe is a neutral or objective INPUT function, but a subjective and manipulative OUTPUT function after, and only after, the Fe dom has "processed" its neutral Fe input through its subconscious and highly subjective Fi value system.

The same should apply to a Te dom. Te looks outside of itself for data and does so in a neutral, objective way when it's operating as an INPUT function, but then, once that data is "processed" through a Te dom's highly subjective yet subconscious Ti, it emerges as an extraverted OUTPUT function that is highly subjective and manipulative with the same "type" of goal as Fe when it acts as an OUTPUT function (i.e. to change the world by effecting logical and rational changes to the world through solving problems). T is all about problem/solution.

I understand the concept that you're conveying.

However I'm unsure of it's validity. I think that is because I have not yet put conscious awareness to these Ti values that you speak of. What would be an example of how strong Ti values would manifest or be expressed?

And yes I think there is an input and output of the extraverted judgment functions, and yes it does appear to be an objective awareness that filters out what's relevant, (I would swap the word input for the word awareness), and subjective to some degree in the output. But couldn't the subjective output be contributed to our subjective perceiving function?

(I think I just need an example of Te's subjective output in the form of Ti)


They don't originate from me (in my mind). They are a result of how others have treated me (and this applies to both the pleasant and unpleasant feelings that I experience). I externalize them. The word "extravert" is cognate with externalization. I hope this makes sense, but I can imagine that an introvert would have difficulty grasping the nature of this dynamic

Yes, it makes sense. This sounds similar to the way that @Enthusiastic _Dreamer described the way his Ne works. That the function is dependent up external stimuli.

Thanks for the superb and thoughtful response. :hifive:

Yes, I like to geek-out as well, lol.
 

Kheledon

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I think that is because I have not yet put conscious awareness to these Ti values that you speak of. What would be an example of how strong Ti values would manifest or be expressed?
Thanks for the great response! :)

I find that I am often unaware of my own Fi values ... until they're violated, and then I experience this kind of "gut" feeling that something's just wrong here. It's an uncomfortable (emotionally disturbing) feeling. Only once I experience that "gut" feeling (and that's Fi screaming for Fe to emote something back because it has been "offended," so to speak) does Fe become aware that some Fi value has been violated. Fe, then, may, or may not, recognize the specific Fi value that has been violated, but, when it does identify the actual Fi value that has been violated, we call that "learning" or, at the very least, learning something about oneself. The question for the ego, then, is whether or not to emote in response. Only because Fe is in my mental loop (one's first four Model A function positions) can I control it consciously. So, the question becomes, "Do I emote in response or not?" Fe then has to "check in" with Ni (to determine whether or not it should emote). One's ego functions, as I understand this dynamic in Socionics theory, always work together. So, Ne, down in my id is always, continuously, and explosively imagining (irrationally) various possible futures. Implosive Ni, on the other hand, seeks to limit/control/select/judge all the possible futures imagined by Ne. Ne wonders, if I emote, if I follow Fi's strong desire and demand to emote in response to the violation of a given Fi value, what might happen? It immediately generates possible futures based upon all the data stored in the subconscious of the unique individual. Ni must then limit/judge Ne's explosive list of possible futures. Ni goes "no, that's not likely," "no, that's not likely," "well, that might happen," or "no, that is extremely unlikely to happen," until, finally, Ni goes, "Eureka! That's the most likely outcome if you emote in the way that Fi wants." Sometimes, when Ni can't find an Ne-generated future that would be beneficial to the person in question, Fi says, "No, you idiot! Don't emote in response. Nothing good can come from that." When my ego works properly in this way, we might call the interplay I have described "self-control," i.e. refusing to respond to a strong urge coming out of the id. Often, when I emote, it represents a failure of Ni to do its job properly. Instead of controlling myself, I emote recklessly, reactively, and in a way that hurts others. I hate that, but ENFj is noted for "thinking out loud," and I do that a lot (too much). I often emote without adequately considering the consequences. Ni needs time to do its work, and if it's not given enough time, it may fail. Sometimes Ni fails no matter how long I ponder a given choice to either act or not act. Other times, Ni says, "Bingo! You should emote, and you should do so in this way, for that would be the best way to achieve the future you want." Then, I emote (use Fe as an OUTPUT function), but it's always a choice for Fe to extravert as an OUTPUT function. My ego must choose whether or not to respond to that powerful Fi pressure to emote in response to some stimulus that has violated a cherished Fi value.

When we say, "Wisdom is the better part of valor," we are basically saying, "Sometimes it's better not to act." In my case, that's my Ni, informed by Ne, keeping a lid on Fe and "controlling" it, despite the immense pressure of my subconscious and powerful Fi. Perhaps the human brain's greatest faculty is its ability not to respond to stimulus. Most other life forms can't control their subconscious urges or desires. They naturally and always respond to stimuli. Humans don't have to. They can control themselves (sometimes).

As an F dom, it's much easier for me to describe this dynamic, as I see it, in specifically F terms, but I'll give it a shot from the point of view of T. Assuming we're talking about someone who's an ENTj, that person's ego would be TeNi. I basically assume that Ti values, buried in the powerful id of ENTj, sound something like this: "That's a problem that needs solving." T is about problem/solution thinking, so Ti has deeply held values about what is and what is not a problem, and it has deeply held values about how to solve problems and how not to solve problems. So, when neutral, unbiased, and explosive Te acts as the sponge it is and absorbs some data (in its INPUT mode), and when that stimulus violates a deeply-held and subconscious Ti value of the individual in question, Ti may have a "gut" reaction that the ENTj can "feel" as a violation of logic (and this is an uncomfortable feeling). Ti then starts screaming at Te to evoke (project itself into the world as an OUTPUT function so as to change the world). Before acting, however, Te "checks in" with Ni (ego functions always work together simultaneously) to see whether or not Te should or should not concede to Ti's demand to evoke, and then the the same Ne/Ni interplay will take place between Ne and Ni that I described above until the person makes a "choice" to either evoke or not evoke (act or not act) in response to the stimulus that violated the ENTj's deeply-held Ti value. What's "logical" to each of us is unique because introverted functions are always subjective--looking inward at all the data stored in the subconscious of a unique individual with a unique history. As an F dom, I can't really give you a good list of Ti values, but I presume that Ti values are judgments about what is logical and what is not combined with judgments about the best way to do something or the best way to solve a given problem. I suppose I can give an example or two from my own expereince. When my Te evokes, it sometimes expresses a Ti judgment like this: "No, you're doing that the wrong way. Let me do it." Sometimes it works like this: "No, that doesn't make any sense at all (i.e. that's not logical)." Sometimes my Ti values manifest like this: "That's not a problem that needs fixing." Sometimes Te evokes a deeply-held Ti value of mine like this: "Excellent. Good idea! Let's do that because doing so will solve the problem at hand." On other occasions, Te says, "There's nothing for it." That means that Ni has done its job, seen no possible future that would be superior to the status quo if Te were to evoke (change the world) in response to the violation of one of my Ti values, and in that case Te may think (cognition) but neither say nor evoke something like this: "There's no good solution, here. It would be better not to act or not to evoke." Of course, Te always has the option to either react (evoke/act) or not to react at all.

I admit that the words "emote" and "evoke" as I have used them above are less-than-ideal, but the point is that all mental-loop functions, in their OUTPUT mode, have a choice about whether or not (and how) to react to a given stimulus. Again, we often call not reacting "self-control," and this is a relatively unique (we think), but immensely powerful, feature of human cognition.

No clue whether or not my words above answered your question, but I was, in effect, Te-ing "out loud" in response to the stimulus that you gave me. T is not my strong suit, admittedly, so I fear that my response may be less-than-satisfying. Still, I gave it a shot.

And yes I think there is an input and output of the extraverted judgment functions, and yes it does appear to be an objective awareness that filters out what's relevant, (I would swap the word input for the word awareness), and subjective to some degree in the output. But couldn't the subjective output be contributed to our subjective perceiving function?

I am going to assume that the word you were looking for was "attributed" (as opposed to contributed), but, either way, at least four functions work together to arrive at every decision a human makes. For me, when I am working out of my ego, it's Fe (absorbing neutrally), Fi (evaluating subjectively), Ne (imagining futures both subjectively and irrationally), and Ni (judging, limiting, and narrowing possible futures so as to determine the most likely outcome of a given course of action). All four work together simultaneously, as I understand it. Ultimately, though, to answer what I perceive to be the "actual" question you are asking, Model A theory posits that all four mental loop functions can be articulated through language and/or acted upon. All of them can be OUTPUT functions. ESI, for example, is famous for "speaking with actions not words," and ESI's powerful Fi will often act (change the world) without words, but Fi may also be articulated, as in, "Stupid driver! You're gonna kill somebody!," or "Hillary Clinton would make a bad President." Those are articulated Fi values. The same should apply to all the mental loop functions (positions 1, 2, 3, and 4--both the rational and irrational ones) according to what I understand of Model A theory (though it should be noted that Model A has been challenged by a number of Socionics theorists who have advanced what they believe to be superior models).

Yes, I like to geek-out as well, lol.

Geeks of the world unite! I think a good number of us are here, in fact. :happy2:
 

Z Buck McFate

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But when it comes to understanding it as a feeling function for the user, what does that mean? All I can make of it at this point, is that Fe users feel this internal anxiety and just general discomfort when their external environment isn't emotionally harmonious or ideal to them. I totally understand that, I personally tend to just remove myself from the situation versus actively fixing it. And while I know everyone has inner feelings, duh, we're not robots here, I'm still having a hard time connecting Fe to the sort of internal feelings one feels with Fi. It can't just be an Fi user's domain, to feel feelings like that right??

To avoid working with assumptions, I'm going to directly ask- do you imagine (1) this is a Fi thing, that Fi dom/aux generally remove themselves from situations over and above trying to influence/mold the external situation to serve them in any way, and that (2) inversely Fe dom/aux will instinctively influence/mold the external situation to serve themselves whenever something in the external environment isn't ideal to them? In other words, overall, do you imagine that Fe dom/aux feel more entitled to dictate shared reality than Fi dom/aux?



As for the generic answer to how I perceive the 'feeling functions' to operate differently- this is maybe just speaking for myself, from my own experience- I think Ni (and probably Si) tends to filter 'ideas' before speaking them. There's a video somewhere around here where some guy (who is ENFP, I believe) explains that Ne extraverts through ideas, whereas Fe extraverts through feeling. To me, that helped make sense of the difference. Ni (and probably Si) makes us very careful of how our ideas might cause unnecessary negative affect in the external world around us. [eta: Just as, it seems, Fi is very careful of how.....something about the apparent presence of someone's emotions(?) might cause unnecessary negative affect in the external world? /eta] It's like we see the consequent dominoes (from ideas) that will be knocked over if we knock the one directly in front of us over, and we tend to want to make sure it's worth it. Being least Se makes it very difficult to deal with external chaos- I prefer the internal chaos because it's much easier for me to sort out. It's almost always available to knock the domino over later, but it's impossible to take back the consequences once a domino has been knocked over. <- That is personally how I see the 'feeling function' difference.

And from the outside, it looks to me like FPs (NFPs in particular, SFPs much less so) are instead hyperfocused on "Do I want to knock this domino over?" Since (and I realize this is an assumption) Si or Ni is more difficult to access than Se or Ne- external chaos presents less of a deterrent? Like, it's more of a priority to figure out one's own position (whether or not one wants to knock the domino over) than to make sure it doesn't impose unnecessary chaos on others. (Indeed, if a person doesn't have a strong aversion to unnecessary external chaos, how can they empathically know it will cause so much distress to those who do? -and likewise, because FJs have a higher threshold for internal chaos, how can we empathically *just know* the distress it causes others to expect them to sort out their chaos internally before knocking over the domino?)

eta, also:

There is a sense of "fair play" with Fe that differs from Fi "fair play".

Fair play being judged by the majority of what people may think isn't right or what affects the majority. Fi judges fair play by what the person themselves deems to be unreasonable.

Fe may judge zoomed out rather than zoomed in like Fi.

Someone is late to work often. This messes everyone else up so they have to double work load until the person comes in. An Fe person may see this as the person circumventing "fair play" as they would not like this done to them repeatedly.

An Fi person may look at it with questions about what the person is going through to make them so late. And depending upon the answer, they may be okay with the lateness. They may decide to pull back and conserve efforts until the person is on board again.

This matches my experience, as a comparison of how the processes look externally (and that each type complaining looks very different/can be like two ships passing in night).

Fe doesn't do that because it is outward show. They consider that person disrespectful to 'everyone' but really everyone is the Fe user ;)

Fe assumes that there are many others who feel the same as they and they are accurate most times. In a generic sense.

Now, if that person came to Fe user and explained reasons for lateness - the Fe user would likely make adjustments for that person!!

Because they took time to explain details and didn't make Fe fill in the blanks. It is a...respect thing.

It might be the reason for some, of course, but I'm not sure this is necessarily a universal Fe thing- it being about establishing some respect.

I think that FJs have a much more difficult time dropping everything to attend to hiccups (like someone being late)- we are both more mindful of imposing our own 'hiccups' on others*, and expect others to be mindful of imposing their hiccups on us, because it's just more difficult for us to be mercurial and improvise. [I find it does help when someone makes their behavior understandable to me- but any frustration I feel is going to be more likely because they've thrown sand in the ointment, the disrespect is sort of secondary.]

Say for example you're dealing with someone who is physically handicapped and they find it more difficult to go up and down the stairs (I don't know, this is the best analogy coming to mind immediately)- expecting them to either go up or down the stairs for a small reason is going to stir a *lot* more resent than the same expectation of someone who can easily manage the task without incident.

*I'm not saying we're EFFECTIVELY more mindful of it- or mindful in a way that is more universal, because what accounts for a 'hiccup' is going to differ- I'm just saying we feel pressure to not impose our hiccups on others (as a consideration, because hiccups can really interfere with/throw a wrench in our day/mood and we're loathe to impose on others like that) in a way that other types neither seem to see nor understand.
 

Dreamer

Potential is My Addiction
Joined
Jul 26, 2015
Messages
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MBTI Type
ENFP
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794
It is both a blessing and a curse. It sux to feel so much. Hardly anyone can understand that, nor may we even expect them to. You'd have to experience it for yourself in order to understand. Most just deny it (i.e. "Hey! I feel stuff too. You don't have any kind of monopoly on feeling.") That's true, of course. Everyone feels, but there's no way for someone who is not an ENFj to understand how "thin" our emotional boundaries are, nor can they understand how emotionally "unstable" we are. It's just beyond their comprehension.

Fe is a powerful tool for shaping the world and influencing others, but it's also an incredible sponge of all the feeling in the world, both good and bad, and it is so overwhelming at times that many ENFjs choose the life of a recluse in order to simply avoid feeling all the pain out there (or to avoid being taken advantage of because we, as martyr types, will literally give ourselves to death if we are not very prudent).

[MENTION=15392]Cellmold[/MENTION] may be a living example, and definitely not the only one.

I feel like this was the answer I was seeking all along. This is sort of the "Fi" I was hoping to pull out of Fe :D I get it, I absolutely get it. What's interesting to me, is that I feel I have that same intensity with feeling, but it's absolutely internal. The sort of relief, in how you describe your experience, is that we both feel burdened with this "curse", though, it is indeed a gift as well. I would absolutely not trade my Fi for the world. Well, let's backtrack, not my Fi, but my relationship with my own feelings, because really, whether one uses Fi or Fe, is really no factor as to how intensely one feels their emotions, as you have beautifully described, is also felt through the Fe experience. My Fi "gift" has always been my ability to draw on my emotion to feed my creative outlets, whether that be through music or art. Even in a more intellectual exercise such as architecture, I utilize this deep, internal draw of emotion.

What I also find so fascinating is that I go in the opposite direction of you, and wish to surround myself with distraction (people, mental exercises, etx.), to compensate, or to silence my internal feelings (always the negative, never when I'm feeling positive) rather than go off on my own to sulk, because experience tells me, that being on my own only deepens that negative intensity, that trough, by incurring feelings of loneliness and worthlessness. So I don't escape the external emotional environment, but seek the external, when I wish to escape the internal.

Absolutely fascinating indeed :)
 
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